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I wonder. Does that mean no pre-orders on the 18th?

Or is that a perfect week to release the final BSF expansion.

Or am I just desperate to get the final BSF expansion?

Aash wrote:

gungo wrote:

stratigo wrote:

 EnTyme wrote:
What's wrong with the AoS app? It works fine for me.

It's often buggy and sometimes gets things wrong, and can be slow to update.

I have to figure it’s not going to have points either since why sell a $40 point update book... which should have been free with the app.

As others have pointed out, GW have already said the app will have points and a matched play army list builder. As for selling a point update book, it could be that the app won’t update points unless you buy chapter approved, the same way that you need to buy a codex to unlock an army list in the app (or at least that’s what I understand is how it’s supposedly going to work).

Surely army lists for existing codexes will be included, otherwise no one will buy it until the new codexes are released.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Togusa wrote:
I'll state it again. The intention of +1 to the roll is clear. Only those min/maxer waac types would try to argue otherwise.

A minute ago you said it was clear, and got it 100% wrong. Now you're moving the goalposts and talking about the "intention" being clear.

But it's not.

GW has had 1+ saves appear a few other times and has rules both ways in the past. So the intention is not clear, and trying to tar everyone with "min/maxer waac" types only makes your argument weaker.

Wait, reading that data sheet he has a 3+ save, +1 to the C = 2+, not 1+.

I still think you guys aren't reading this properly.

 Togusa wrote:
Wait, reading that data sheet he has a 3+ save, +1 to the C = 2+, not 1+.

I still think you guys aren't reading this properly.

We know full well what the sheet says. The implication is for Storm Shields on units that start with 2+ saves (like Assault Terminators, Deathwing Knights or Custodes), or for units with a 2+ save that get the Crusade rule bonus to armour saves.

 MPJ wrote:

IanVanCheese wrote:

 MPJ wrote:
I watched the second 9th edition bat rep from TTT and sadly again it was rather one sided. Partially down to such disparate dice rolls and luck and partially due to marines being insane

Two observations however:

Chef recommended to play MSU to nullify blast and to achieve some secondaries due to sacrificing units’ phases beyond movement. At the very least he advised performing actions on units you have no issue doing nothing else all turn

They were playing on a smaller board and whilst said you can of course play on larger, they highly recommended using the minimum size. Armies do still start the same distance away from each other though, but a smaller board means less places to hide. They also advised always set up your army to go second due to the 50/50 roll off

They did tease that only having the rules for 9th is just a tiny piece of the puzzle and there’s lot coming in the future

Chef seems very excited, which makes me think he's been testing the new necron book.

Definitely. I hope this go round all books are far closer to power and there are less pointless units and rules in them

With that said, (game spoilers)

Spoiler:

yeah some huge tactical errors combined with shocking dice rolls kinda ruined this game.

I hope the Necron (and all other books) are a lot closer together in terms of viability and power, with far less pointless units and rules

Ive been saving it to watch at lunchtime at work.

Yeah the bat reps where marines fail are few and far between unles they really go out of their way to build a terrible list (old marine inferior units for example).

ANd thisone is "uuuughhhh obnoxious" lol.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Togusa wrote:
Wait, reading that data sheet he has a 3+ save, +1 to the C = 2+, not 1+.

I still think you guys aren't reading this properly.

We know full well what the sheet says. The implication is for Storm Shields on units that start with 2+ saves (like Assault Terminators, Deathwing Knights or Custodes), or for units with a 2+ save that get the Crusade rule bonus to armour saves.

How do we know all storm shields have this though? That's what I'm wondering. So far we've seen, what, two data sheets? Are we sure that this applies to these other units?

I guess I don't understand here what the issue is.

 Togusa wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Togusa wrote:
Wait, reading that data sheet he has a 3+ save, +1 to the C = 2+, not 1+.

I still think you guys aren't reading this properly.

We know full well what the sheet says. The implication is for Storm Shields on units that start with 2+ saves (like Assault Terminators, Deathwing Knights or Custodes), or for units with a 2+ save that get the Crusade rule bonus to armour saves.

How do we know all storm shields have this though? That's what I'm wondering. So far we've seen, what, two data sheets? Are we sure that this applies to these other units?

I guess I don't understand here what the issue is.

Even if for some reason Storm Shields have different rules on different units in the same army (which would be one of the dumbest things ever), there's still the Crusade upgrade that explicitly states that a 1+ save is possible.

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:

 Togusa wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Togusa wrote:
Wait, reading that data sheet he has a 3+ save, +1 to the C = 2+, not 1+.

I still think you guys aren't reading this properly.

We know full well what the sheet says. The implication is for Storm Shields on units that start with 2+ saves (like Assault Terminators, Deathwing Knights or Custodes), or for units with a 2+ save that get the Crusade rule bonus to armour saves.

How do we know all storm shields have this though? That's what I'm wondering. So far we've seen, what, two data sheets? Are we sure that this applies to these other units?

I guess I don't understand here what the issue is.

Even if for some reason Storm Shields have different rules on different units in the same army (which would be one of the dumbest things ever), there's still the Crusade upgrade that explicitly states that a 1+ save is possible.

And the Relic Shields on a few of the new Primaris characters happens to give the same benefit. Some of those characters can, I am quite certain, pick up relics for a 2+ base armor save (which then becomes 1+).

So Day 1, based on everything we've released, there can be 2++ (effectively) Space Marine characters running around.

Not the end of the world, but not exactly an ideal start.

 Unusual Suspect wrote:

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:

 Togusa wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Togusa wrote:
Wait, reading that data sheet he has a 3+ save, +1 to the C = 2+, not 1+.

I still think you guys aren't reading this properly.

We know full well what the sheet says. The implication is for Storm Shields on units that start with 2+ saves (like Assault Terminators, Deathwing Knights or Custodes), or for units with a 2+ save that get the Crusade rule bonus to armour saves.

How do we know all storm shields have this though? That's what I'm wondering. So far we've seen, what, two data sheets? Are we sure that this applies to these other units?

I guess I don't understand here what the issue is.

Even if for some reason Storm Shields have different rules on different units in the same army (which would be one of the dumbest things ever), there's still the Crusade upgrade that explicitly states that a 1+ save is possible.

And the Relic Shields on a few of the new Primaris characters happens to give the same benefit. Some of those characters can, I am quite certain, pick up relics for a 2+ base armor save (which then becomes 1+).

So Day 1, based on everything we've released, there can be 2++ (effectively) Space Marine characters running around.

Not the end of the world, but not exactly an ideal start.

With how promient 3++ / 4++ invuln saves have gotten and the few fringe cases where a 1+ save might be possible... there is practically 0 reason why the archon's shadowfield shouldnt just be a permanent 2++ a t3 body is far less egregious compared to a T4 or T5 character/unit getting the same thing.

So what time do pre orders usually go live and are they the same time for everyone or do they go by time zones?

SirGrotzalot wrote:
So what time do pre orders usually go live and are they the same time for everyone or do they go by time zones?

Time zoned. Around 1pm EST for North America for example.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

SirGrotzalot wrote:
So what time do pre orders usually go live and are they the same time for everyone or do they go by time zones?

Time zoned. 9am EST for North America for example.

Preorders go live at 1pm Eastern on the GW webstore.

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:

 Togusa wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Togusa wrote:
Wait, reading that data sheet he has a 3+ save, +1 to the C = 2+, not 1+.

I still think you guys aren't reading this properly.

We know full well what the sheet says. The implication is for Storm Shields on units that start with 2+ saves (like Assault Terminators, Deathwing Knights or Custodes), or for units with a 2+ save that get the Crusade rule bonus to armour saves.

How do we know all storm shields have this though? That's what I'm wondering. So far we've seen, what, two data sheets? Are we sure that this applies to these other units?

I guess I don't understand here what the issue is.

Even if for some reason Storm Shields have different rules on different units in the same army (which would be one of the dumbest things ever), there's still the Crusade upgrade that explicitly states that a 1+ save is possible.

What is the crusade upgrade? I don't understand what that is.

SirGrotzalot wrote:
So what time do pre orders usually go live and are they the same time for everyone or do they go by time zones?

In the mainland US, they go live at the same time- 1pm east coast, 10am fire coast (and so on for the time zones in between).
Stock and distribution is handled separately for different continents/regions, so the only folks you'll be competing with are Canadians; despite the website separation, their orders come out of Nashville as well.
(possibly Mexico and Caribbean, but that's never been really clear, if they even have a significant level of demand).

It'll be interesting to see if the website chokes on Saturday. Pure uncertainty about how much 'a lot of stock' really is might combine poorly with Covid pushing remote sales over in-person store visits- and preorders for same.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

SirGrotzalot wrote:
So what time do pre orders usually go live and are they the same time for everyone or do they go by time zones?

Time zoned. 9am EST for North America for example.

Preorders go live at 1pm Eastern on the GW webstore.

Is there a price on the box yet?

 Togusa wrote:
What is the crusade upgrade? I don't understand what that is.

 Togusa wrote:

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:

 Togusa wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Togusa wrote:
Wait, reading that data sheet he has a 3+ save, +1 to the C = 2+, not 1+.

I still think you guys aren't reading this properly.

We know full well what the sheet says. The implication is for Storm Shields on units that start with 2+ saves (like Assault Terminators, Deathwing Knights or Custodes), or for units with a 2+ save that get the Crusade rule bonus to armour saves.

How do we know all storm shields have this though? That's what I'm wondering. So far we've seen, what, two data sheets? Are we sure that this applies to these other units?

I guess I don't understand here what the issue is.

Even if for some reason Storm Shields have different rules on different units in the same army (which would be one of the dumbest things ever), there's still the Crusade upgrade that explicitly states that a 1+ save is possible.

What is the crusade upgrade? I don't understand what that is.

It's part of the new Narrative system. When a unit gains enough experience to rank up, it gains a battle honour. If it's a Character, that battle honour can be a Crusade Relic. One of the options, Master-crafted Armour, improves the model's save Characteristic by 1 among other things. As one of the examples on what improving the save characteristic means, it gives a 2+ Sv becoming a 1+ Sv.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

SirGrotzalot wrote:
So what time do pre orders usually go live and are they the same time for everyone or do they go by time zones?

Time zoned. 9am EST for North America for example.

Preorders go live at 1pm Eastern on the GW webstore.

Would that be the same time for the App being available for downloads? Hope the server doesn't crash. I need to know points costs. I've been dieing to make some lists.

 warmaster21 wrote:

 Unusual Suspect wrote:

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:

 Togusa wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Togusa wrote:
Wait, reading that data sheet he has a 3+ save, +1 to the C = 2+, not 1+.

I still think you guys aren't reading this properly.

We know full well what the sheet says. The implication is for Storm Shields on units that start with 2+ saves (like Assault Terminators, Deathwing Knights or Custodes), or for units with a 2+ save that get the Crusade rule bonus to armour saves.

How do we know all storm shields have this though? That's what I'm wondering. So far we've seen, what, two data sheets? Are we sure that this applies to these other units?

I guess I don't understand here what the issue is.

Even if for some reason Storm Shields have different rules on different units in the same army (which would be one of the dumbest things ever), there's still the Crusade upgrade that explicitly states that a 1+ save is possible.

And the Relic Shields on a few of the new Primaris characters happens to give the same benefit. Some of those characters can, I am quite certain, pick up relics for a 2+ base armor save (which then becomes 1+).

So Day 1, based on everything we've released, there can be 2++ (effectively) Space Marine characters running around.

Not the end of the world, but not exactly an ideal start.

With how promient 3++ / 4++ invuln saves have gotten and the few fringe cases where a 1+ save might be possible... there is practically 0 reason why the archon's shadowfield shouldnt just be a permanent 2++ a t3 body is far less egregious compared to a T4 or T5 character/unit getting the same thing.

Honestly I've been for getting rid of that stipulation on them since they're only T3 anyway.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Either that or a 3++ and halve incoming damage.

 Galas wrote:
I'm glad internet people is not real and no human being would play the 2++ even if GW doesnt faq it.

ETC/WTC has allready said they are gonna do it in their own tournament ruleset so NP for my part.

What most people doesn't tell when they put down the Bastiladon example is that , that model literally ignored rend, so thats how they did it to allow it to ignore rend until it becomes damaged and then it loses that property to balance it.

Funnily enough people did use 2++ meganobz in tournaments before gw banned meganobz(but not prevent mechanism). Not surprising when rules and faq supported it


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Galas wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
"We’ve re-engineered Chapter Approved this year to be purely about matched play, giving you a host of new content for Grand Tournaments, as well as new missions Incursion and Strike Force engagements."

I wonder why they went down this route, especially as they've just introduced Crusade, for which CA would be a perfect platform to expand that style of play.

Voss wrote:
No, a 1+ save means you save on a 1+, except unmodified 1s, because that's what the rules actually say.

It's the same thing. You roll anything but a 1, you save.

They have separated the narrative and campaing based rules from the competitive play ones so competitive players don't have to buy some unbalanced narrative crap that had 0 thought put onto it with their balance changes.

If you think matched play is balanced or ever will be you are in for rude shock. Gw doesn't want balance. Just changing imbalance so you keep buying new models. Your chase of balance equals just more cash lost with zero change in game balanance level.

Matched play, gw's name of marketing tool to fool people


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Platuan4th wrote:

 TalonZahn wrote:
So you need the new rulebook, which has no points for anything, and then buy another book that has all the new points for everything.

It warms my heart to know GW hasn't lost their touch with business world and how to maximize profit.

Or you just buy the Rulebook, skip the $40 Chapter Approved, and pay your nominal monthly fee for the list builder to get the points.

And miss scenarios

 Kanluwen wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

SirGrotzalot wrote:
So what time do pre orders usually go live and are they the same time for everyone or do they go by time zones?

Time zoned. 9am EST for North America for example.

Preorders go live at 1pm Eastern on the GW webstore.

Yeah, I fixed it right after posting it. Not sure where the 9am came from.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Togusa wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

SirGrotzalot wrote:
So what time do pre orders usually go live and are they the same time for everyone or do they go by time zones?

Time zoned. 9am EST for North America for example.

Preorders go live at 1pm Eastern on the GW webstore.

Is there a price on the box yet?

199USD, 125GBP


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

SirGrotzalot wrote:
So what time do pre orders usually go live and are they the same time for everyone or do they go by time zones?

Time zoned. 9am EST for North America for example.

Preorders go live at 1pm Eastern on the GW webstore.

Would that be the same time for the App being available for downloads? Hope the server doesn't crash. I need to know points costs. I've been dieing to make some lists.

That's what GW said. Since the app will be through the normal app stores it should be fine.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

tneva82 wrote:

If you think matched play is balanced or ever will be you are in for rude shock. Gw doesn't want balance. Just changing imbalance so you keep buying new models. Your chase of balance equals just more cash lost with zero change in game balanance level.

Matched play, gw's name of marketing tool to fool people

Not everything is a conspiracy to fleece people of their money.

40k will never be perfectly balanced (not unless they stop making new models anyways), but it does reach a point of equilibrium. That point isn't always where the community thinks it should be which in turn leads to changes which causes that point to shift.

That's not going into how a team of maybe a dozen people and a handful of playtesters can't catch every possible issue. Maybe the issue wasn't noticed because there was a bigger issue, maybe the issue was caused by a rules rewrite to try and correct a different problem, maybe the issue requires multiple codexes making it less likely to be found, or maybe egos get involved and the issue isn't treated as seriously as it should be.

There are a lot of things that can cause problems to slip through the cracks, and even the most polished product has problems.

Best we can do is hope for a proper response from.the devs when the community points the issues out so the game can be healthier for all involved.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And yes, that includes GW because they make more money the less churn their customer base has. Happy customers spend more money.

About the Lt and the 1+ save, are we discussing how he can get a 1+ save using the relic from Crusade? If so I agree that he would get a 1+ save.
He would get a 2+ save by the shield, as it says that it improves his characteristic by 1. Then the relic would do the same and specifies a 2+ goes to a 1+.
The issue really though ends up coming from the core rule that only an unmodified roll of a 1 fails. I hope that is FAQed or some units are gonna become bonkers.

I do hope that this new "Tournament Pack" book contains some of the missions from the last Chapter Approved book. There were some really fun ones in there, like Lockdown, where there are fewer objectives as the game goes on, forcing you to move around to stay on top of your opponent.

The Storm shield rules on both the new lieutenant and the Bladeguard both say a 4+ invulnerable save not the classic 3+ so already there’s a difference on top of the +1 to armour characteristic.
Maybe the terminator storm shields will stay as they are?

That cant be true gw is only evil and interested in my money, wake up sheeple

Continue to think this is just this editions "assault guns dont work" but the simplest FAQ would just be "a units save can't be improved beyond a 2+". Therefore a 1+ save can't exist and any problem goes away.

tneva82 wrote:


And miss scenarios

The Tournament missions book is a separate purchase from the points book.

Tyel wrote:
Continue to think this is just this editions "assault guns dont work" but the simplest FAQ would just be "a units save can't be improved beyond a 2+". Therefore a 1+ save can't exist and any problem goes away.

Nah, the far simpler way to do it stop giving bonuses to the safe characteristic and only hand out bonuses to the armor save roll.

Tyel wrote:
Continue to think this is just this editions "assault guns dont work" but the simplest FAQ would just be "a units save can't be improved beyond a 2+". Therefore a 1+ save can't exist and any problem goes away.

One way to solve. Another is to do so that 1+ is buffer vs ap rather than 2++

Or they could just apply AP to the save instead of the roll.

There is no reason for 1+ saves to not exist outside of their weird interaction with modified dice rolls.