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Fear to Tread shows Sangy killing a marine fallen to the Red Thirst, Black Rage is a result of the psychic backlash from his death. But the most likely thing is that one legion was fine on a common level, but their primarch made a deal with a xenos and had to be taken out. The soldiers were merged with the Ultramarines. Then the other was horrifically mutated and the Emperor set Young Spence(Leman) on him

He told Horus that he did not want a third empty plinth in the Imperial palace to be the only legacy left of him and his legion.

 Lint wrote:
He told Horus that he did not want a third empty plinth in the Imperial palace to be the only legacy left of him and his legion.

Instead he got 9!

The Emprah knowing about the Red Thirst wouldnt have changed the heresy that much would it?

One of them fell between the couch cushions the other's still in the lost and found.
But I also seem to recall Wobbly Model Syndrome showed both primarchs without naming them. Apparently they joined Horus during the heresy but were discarded when they were unworthy of him.

As for "The Lost", perhaps they were actually lost. Either in a tragic warp accident, gene-seed failure or turned to the runious powers.

The Primarch of the Space Marine Legion I created is the 'Lost'. I'm still working some details out, helped by a couple of the Horus Heresy than me

In the HH book "Primarchs" I saw something interesting:




Anybody else read the book and catch that line?

Yes... Yes... Yes...

But everyone knows that the Primarch of the XI was Ostrominus...

 FabricatorGeneralMike wrote:

JohnnoM wrote:at least one was created an absorbed, supposedly by the ultramarines.

That does seem to be hinted as one of the reasions the Ultrablingers are so much larger then other Legions. It could also be down to the fact that they control a small stellar empire within the Imperium and have a large armount of worlds to draw Marine recrutes from.

Until we have some hard facts on Legion sizes ( the books are all over the place, they where around 10,000-20,000, then they jumped up to 50,000-100,000 with the UM being 250,000) this is all speculation and fanfiction territory. =o]

Should be noted Legion size has increased again the FW HH series. Before the Heresy Sons of Horus are stated to be 130,000-170,000, World Eaters 150,000, Death Guard 95,000, Emperor's Children ~50,000. The World Eaters figure is "mid-tier" in size.

From what I hear, they are writing a book (or perhaps a series) on the Lost Primarchs. From all the evidence I've gathered, the Primarchs of the 2nd & 11th Legions were traitors from before the Horus Heresy.
There are several direct references made in the Horus Heresy novels but there is also a more subtle hint. It takes places during the book Legion where Lord Commander Namatjira talks about reporting the Alpha Legion to the Council of Terra for dissolution and says, " It wouldn't be the first time a Legion Astartes has overstepped the mark, after all." Its possible the Primarchs and there Legions commited some kind of atrocity (possibly falling to the taint of Chaos) and where forced to dissolve. This could also explain the Council of Nikaea that banned Librarian units and use of psykers in the Imperium.

 Lint wrote:
In the HH book "Primarchs" I saw something interesting:

Spoiler:

In the Iron Hands book at the end the Eldar farseer has failed to convince Ferrus of the impending civil war. The Farseer then says to another Eldar that there is one more they can try to convince, the one who was lost and in the empire of the battle king. The battle king was demonstrated to be Guilliman earlier in the book, so what the Farseer was describing was another primarch whom they could reach and use for their purposes (whatever those are) and this alleged primarch was in Guilliman's Ultima empire and that he was a lost primarch.

Anybody else read the book and catch that line?

I believed that to be reference to

Storm Lord wrote:......

Ah ok, that actually makes sense now. I still want it to be Sigmar though....

UPDATE:
The blood ravens are also noted as being one of the possible missing legions but this is in fact not true. Their primarch is rogal dorn. They are imperial fist successors as they possess three of the imperial fists main relics. Their battle barge, dorns mantle artificer armour and rogals blade power sword and on the world of Kronus their is a shrine dedicated to his honour with blood raven iconography on it.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/01/04 08:34:13

So this is true or false some of you guys said the Blood ravens were loyalist thousand sons? So can i get a clarification ? Thanks, And who is Ostrominus?

the answer is quite clear.

Ostrogoths

 Frecklesonfire wrote:

UPDATE:
The blood ravens are also noted as being one of the possible missing legions but this is in fact not true. Their primarch is rogal dorn. They are imperial fist successors as they possess three of the imperial fists main relics. Their battle barge, dorns mantle artificer armour and rogals blade power sword and on the world of Kronus their is a shrine dedicated to his honour with blood raven iconography on it.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/01/04 08:34:13

So this is true or false some of you guys said the Blood ravens were loyalist thousand sons? So can i get a clarification ? Thanks, And who is Ostrominus?

Yup read Age of Darkness.

 Frecklesonfire wrote:

UPDATE:
The blood ravens are also noted as being one of the possible missing legions but this is in fact not true. Their primarch is rogal dorn. They are imperial fist successors as they possess three of the imperial fists main relics. Their battle barge, dorns mantle artificer armour and rogals blade power sword and on the world of Kronus their is a shrine dedicated to his honour with blood raven iconography on it.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/01/04 08:34:13

So this is true or false some of you guys said the Blood ravens were loyalist thousand sons? So can i get a clarification ? Thanks, And who is Ostrominus?

Probably Loyalist Thousand Sons.

The book A Thousand Sons has a scene where a psyker (Kallista) has a vision of the future,

"The Ravens. I see them too. The lost sons and a Raven of blood. They cry out for salvation and knowledge, but it is denied!"

Interesting thanks

It was a legion entirely made of superhuman squats!

No, but really, I thought of making a chapter that was the second legion's successors, and end up turning to the tau because of constantly being abandoned by imperial forces. But then I realized that If I did that then I would make a ton of people unhappy.

Ok this is REALLY far out of the park and i mean so far taht im just saying this because im an ork player. What if the brainboyz left the orks for the 2 lost legions. It could explain why the orks seem to be the second most hated race beside for the chaos. Our maybe the Dark Eldar got to the before the Emperor . . .

The Deathwatch I don't know much about, but it is in my understanding that the Grey Knights are the loyalists from the traitor legions such as; Garviel Loken and Nathaniel Garro, who left their legions because they did not what to betray the emperor and were from the Luna Wolves/Sons of Horus and the Death Guard. But the Deathwatch I dunno you could be right... I'll look it up.

I better way to discover what the Emperors orignal purpose for the Primarchs and their legions would be would be to take a look at the legions before they gained their Primarchs. Each Primarch was tainted and or changed by how he grew up. Each Legion was changed and or tainted by the influences the Primarchs brought with them from this. And considering that each Legion was made from their Primarchs gene seed then it would make sense that they would have some semblance of the purpose that they were originally intended for.
As it is each legions and every legions purpose isnt exact. And as we really dont know much about each legion pre-primarch except for the Death Guard (Dusk Raiders) it may be pointless in speculating as to their purposes. However I would like to point on the fact that the Dusk Raiders reportedly had a similar combat doctrine after they met Mortarion as before. I would say this is a good show that if they were made for a purpose each and I really dont know why he wouldnt make them with purposes in mind, that some legions may have retained this purpose.

I would think it unlikely that either of the 'lost' primarchs were corrupted by chaos, because it seems they were known to at least some of the other primarchs, and they in turn were all so terribly naive about chaos (with the exception of Magnus, although he was unaware of its true nature.)

One of them faced sanction with his legion at the hands of the Space Wolves, that seems clear. (I would assume 'The Purged)

The Emperor's gifts were not distributed evenly amongst his sons. I think it's conceivable one of the missing primarchs is Malcador, infirm and weak of body but possessing psychic powers second only to the Emperor, an incredible intellect and a seemingly hugely extended lifespan.

There would be no better place to hide 'The Lost' than in plain sight.

Ollius Pious is a perpetual not a Primarch, the Eldar never mention a Primarch in the Iron Hands (Primarchs) Story. They need Ollius to save the Emperor on Horus' battlebarge so the Emperor can kill Horus and introduce the stalemate to the universe. If either side wins the civil war then the Eldar would eventually become extinct, either from a new renewed Loyalist crusade or the bloodbath following the Chaos victory and Horus's descend into self destruction.
Thats my take on that one.

Regarding the two missing primarchs, using the new discovery order and the astrological signs theory. http://menducia.atspace.com/primarchs/II.html

The third one found was the glue guy (Fortune). Horus has already been proven to be full of self doubt, which leads to jealously. See Fear to Tread and his jealously of Sanguinius. i suspect he was always a snake in the grass, always being close to the Emperor and having his ear. Fortune would have been a huge threat to Horus's popularity and standing, so i think Horus set him up (whispering campaign) leading to his and his legions destruction by the others (or Space Wolves if you believe the rumours). It was Horus decision to rebel not the influence of the Chaos Gods as Horus saw the lies for what they were, he still by his own will chose to rebel.

The second last one, would therefore be the (High Priestess) akin to Magnus, a psyker. Either he was corrupted before being found or rejected the Imperium as he already understood the warp, so didnt believe the lies. His legion then was given to Guiliman to absorb into the Ultramarines. Whether he then fled or was destroyed. Its implied Lorgar was close to one or both of the missing primarchs in The First Heretic, perhaps the (High Priestess) told Lorgar some or all of the truth about the warp, which then started him along the path of rebellion.

If my fan theories are correct, then they would imply Horus would have started the heresy anyway, with or without the Chaos Gods involvement. Afterall all the Word Bearers did was bring the traitors together and find out who would or wouldnt follow, it was Horus that started the Heresy.

The Wohle idea of "Sigmar the Lost Primarch" isnt so far fetched, except for the fact that the primarch AND legion are missing, implying that they where lost AFTER being discovered by the Emperor. Hey, matey they are just hidden away on terra?

Ember

It's impossible that they were folded into the Deathwatch as the Deathwatch was founded far later, in the Apocryphon Conclave. This took place with Chapter Masters, not Primarchs.

Wow. This thread was necro'ed twice. Is that a new record?

edit: FOUR times. This thread has been necro'ed four times. Dayum.

My theory has always been tied into the founding of the Inquisition. The main Ordos are against Chaos, Aliens and Heretics as the greatest threats to the Imperium.

As the Emperor founded the Inquisition personally, and the fate of his sons always weighed heavilly on him, it would make sense for an organisation founded to root out corruption to mirror the causes of corruption that claimed his own sons, and caused him such pain. As Chaos claimed 9 of the Primarchs, it would make sense that the other two were corrupted by heresy and alien influence, respectively.

All the known Primarchs landed on human worlds, but would it not cause conflict if one grew up in an alien environment? We already have examples of integrated human/alien civilizations with the Interex and Diasporex, so if a Primarch was raised in one of these cultures, surely they would have issues integrating with the Imperium due to its genocidal and xenophobic attitudes to non-humans?

Secondly, apart from the rules governing the use of Psykers, the other strict rule the Emperor kept was regarding the use and development of certain technologies. For one Primarch to be a (non-Chaos influenced) Heretek would be a neat exploration of this avenue of corruption, and he would have to be reluctantly taken out, as he would otherwise risk the alliance with Mars, splitting the Imperium in two. My theory is that one of the missing Primarchs is actually the author of 'A Logical Discourse', which would provide a mirror to Lorgar's book founding the Imperial Creed.

Regarding the astrological theory, I would move Magnus to the High Priestess, and have the Heretek represent the Magus, and the Xenos defender as Fortune. If you take out the warp elements of the Magus, it does describe a Heretek quite well.

I'm gonna go with something different than what's been mentioned. I always saw the expunged records pointing to what happened to Varus' Roman Legions after they were massacred by Arminius' German tribes in the Teutoberg Forest. The legionaries and their supply train were all either killed or enslaved, and their Imperial eagles captured, incredibly embarrassing and arguably the biggest defeat for the Romans. Those numbered legions were wiped from record and would never be raised again. Similarly, the II and XI legions were wiped out, to a man, and they were expunged from records and the surviving primarchs swore to never mention them again. Giving them names like the "Purged" and the "Forgotten" could be hints as to how they were wiped out or all inclusive, as to say both legions were destroyed and to be forgotten.

Did this really need a 2 year bump?

 Flanker wrote:
I'm gonna go with something different than what's been mentioned. I always saw the expunged records pointing to what happened to Varus' Roman Legions after they were massacred by Arminius' German tribes in the Teutoberg Forest. The legionaries and their supply train were all either killed or enslaved, and their Imperial eagles captured, incredibly embarrassing and arguably the biggest defeat for the Romans. Those numbered legions were wiped from record and would never be raised again. Similarly, the II and XI legions were wiped out, to a man, and they were expunged from records and the surviving primarchs swore to never mention them again. Giving them names like the "Purged" and the "Forgotten" could be hints as to how they were wiped out or all inclusive, as to say both legions were destroyed and to be forgotten.

This. Additionally, it gave fans an opportunity to create their own Legion. I think it's been said by one of the Horus Heresy authors that the missing Legions will never be elaborated on. They are there for the fans to make their own stories.