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 Ovion wrote:
Oh I agree, he SHOULD be at least BS4, if not 5 (Which would be 280-290).

That he's not a character makes him far more fragile.

And Eternal Warrior is worth 35pts. (As proven in Space Wolves, Adepta Sororitas and I believe Space Marines too.)

I think 35 points is fine for Eternal Warrior. (The statement about Eternal warrior was an inquiry into how op responded.)

I suppose, I don't see why he isn't at least a CHARACTER.

Shrug, I would say he is an Independent Character who can't join squads and call it quits.

Wow, Lot of questions...

Yes, the name is a Lancelot joke, I didn't even bother changing the last name.

Ok, he's not a character because he's factionless. Not belonging to the army, more showing up and fighting with the army. As such, he really wouldn't jump into the rank and file forces. This is also why he doesn't have chapter tactics. He's not meant to be leading the army. So I could make him Character for the challenges, but beyond that he's no commander.

Didn't want to just GIVE ID because now it can wear off, and gives daemons a fighting chance instead of Draigo-Level Daemon shredding.

I'll agree to dropping his shield to a 4++, no problem there.

He's BS 3 because he does't shoot. He also doesn't have a gun, so it doesn't particularly matter. Could be 0 for all I care.

Is initiative 6 really that high? I mean, realisictically he's throwing down with princes which still go first, or something with a Powerfist equivalent that would go last anyway, or didn't really stand a chance anyway (I do admit this statement is based only on the few armies I've faced, so if there are common examples disproving this, i wouldn't really mind dropping it.)

Also, the more i think about it the more that there would be no way I'd take him without EW. Land Raider in cost, no flesh wall, toughness 4. He'd be wiped by a 15 point guardsmen model with a meltagun.

And thank you all. This has been as helpful as a million field tests.

Wow, Lot of questions...

Ok, he's not a character because he's factionless. Not belonging to the army, more showing up and fighting with the army. As such, he really wouldn't jump into the rank and file forces. This is also why he doesn't have chapter tactics. He's not meant to be leading the army. So I could make him Character for the challenges, but beyond that he's no commander.

He should be an Independent Character simply because one, he is Independent, and two, he is a NAMED Character. Making him an independent Character who can't join squads is reasonable and should be done.

Didn't want to just GIVE ID because now it can wear off, and gives daemons a fighting chance instead of Draigo-Level Daemon shredding.

I am saying replace the Special rule with ID against Daemons and Chaos Space Marines, some special rule that inflicts ID at ap 2 multiple times a turn is kinda out there.
Also, he shouldn't BE as good as Kaldor Draigo at killing Daemons, he shouldn't be anywhere near that, attempting to make a character of that nature is going to result in another boring, well rounded killy HQ in close combat.

I'll agree to dropping his shield to a 4++, no problem there.

You typed "Combat Shield" when in reality he has a Storm Shield.

He's BS 3 because he does't shoot. He also doesn't have a gun, so it doesn't particularly matter. Could be 0 for all I care.

Just because you have a model that doesn't shoot, doesn't mean he is any worse at it than other Space Marines, nor does it make it ok for him to be spectacular in close combat.

Is initiative 6 really that high? I mean, realisictically he's throwing down with princes which still go first, or something with a Powerfist equivalent that would go last anyway, or didn't really stand a chance anyway (I do admit this statement is based only on the few armies I've faced, so if there are common examples disproving this, i wouldn't really mind dropping it.)

Is Kaldor Draigo Initiative six and have AP 2 attacks?

Also, the more i think about it the more that there would be no way I'd take him without EW. Land Raider in cost, no flesh wall, toughness 4. He'd be wiped by a 15 point guardsmen model with a meltagun.

Lord Cypher is a character who does the same thing, and is considered an Independent Character. Its a realism thing, according to the rules, he is and Independent Character. Even If he can't join squads.

Honestly, he should be a CHARACTER, being an IC doesn't matter, and balances it out.

He SHOULD be BS4/5, because that's what a highly trained marine is.
Even Scouts are BS4, a named character isn't going to be less than that.
I'd go with base captain stats.

As-is, the thing is 4, T4 2+/3+* wounds, with 6, I6, Str6, AP2 attacks on the charge for just shy of 300pts.

With no support or help.

While at first glance it seems bad, it's alright overall.

But yeah, certain aspects could do with a rewrite.

Go base Captain, adjust from there.

Perhaps I'm just a fool (Ok, most likely I'm just a fool) but the difference of Character and Ind. Charater is the Team Jumping Mechanic, so why IC? I've agreed to character, but you're saying I need to do something pointless

I did mean combat shield. It's a unique and strong combat shield. Mostly for Modelling purposes.

I still see no purpose in bickering over his BS. But, for fluffs sake, highly trained Marines are BS 4 but accuracy is a perishable skill that he hasn't been using.

I don't want him one hitting Daemons. The current sword setup guarantees retaliation, giving them a chance to squish him, has only a 2/3 chance of lighting them on fire, and most Daemons have an invulnerable save of 5+(?) or better.

Is Draigo I6? Hmm... I'll drop it to 5, putting him a smidge faster than your average Marine(He's Lancelot, he's meant to be fast)

Cypher, by what i understand, isn't a 275 point investment.

Character works fine.

 Will1541 wrote:
I still see no purpose in bickering over his BS. But, for fluffs sake, highly trained Marines are BS 4 but accuracy is a perishable skill that he hasn't been using.

Because, it's basically reducing his BS for cost reduction reasons and nothing else.

There's litterally not 1 marine, loyalist, renegade or chaos that has a WS or BS less than 4.
Captain / Chapter Master grade marines have 5+.

Not being an IC is perfectly fine.
A 'not' Storm Shield is fine.
The weapon (as priced) is fine, etc.

After re-reading Path of the Incubus in anticipation of Path of the Archon, i remembered how much i loved Mor. He is an especially large and strong Incubus who got a sniper shot through one of his eyes and we all thought he died, he then got back up *PISSED* and hacked an entire tree down to carve up an Eldar Ranger who shot him. He would also add a little more killy to a unit of 4 Incubi i like to put in Venoms.

Mor the Incubus. Any Incubus may be upgraded to Mor for 40pts.

Ws 6 Bs 2 S 4 T 3 W 2 I 6 A 3 Ld 9 Sv 3+ Infantry (character)

Wargear: Klaive
Incubus Warsuit


Special rules: Power from Pain
Fleet
Night Vision
Deathblow*
Feel no pain
Mor, although not a Klaivex, has the Klaivex power Onslaught.

*Deathblow. Due to his pride, Mor may never refuse a challange. During a Challenge Mor may choose before any blows are struck to withhold his attacks and preform them at initative step 1, if he chooses this then even if Mor is killed at an earlier Initiative step these attacks still take place.

Scouts are BS3.

Everything that is not Scouts are BS4+

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
After re-reading Path of the Incubus in anticipation of Path of the Archon, i remembered how much i loved Mor. He is an especially large and strong Incubus who got a sniper shot through one of his eyes and we all thought he died, he then got back up *PISSED* and hacked an entire tree down to carve up an Eldar Ranger who shot him. He would also add a little more killy to a unit of 4 Incubi i like to put in Venoms.

Mor the Incubus. Any Incubus may be upgraded to Mor for 40pts.

Ws 6 Bs 2 S 4 T 3 W 2 I 6 A 3 Ld 9 Sv 3+ Infantry (character)

Wargear: Klaive
Incubus Warsuit


Special rules: Power from Pain
Fleet
Night Vision
Deathblow*
Feel no pain
Mor, although not a Klaivex, has the Klaivex power Onslaught.

*Deathblow. Due to his pride, Mor may never refuse a challange. During a Challenge Mor may choose before any blows are struck to withhold his attacks and preform them at initative step 1, if he chooses this then even if Mor is killed at an earlier Initiative step these attacks still take place.

He should really be BS 4, if not 5, as per all the other Incubi. There's no reason for it and just comes off as reducing 'dump stats' to make it cheaper.
Either way, you aren't getting a discount on thisun -_-;
Costing:Total: +53

Otherwise, I like the concept.

BS 2 because he got one eye shot out?

That's what I though when I read it

 Dantioch wrote:
Two things, first it's Morr not Mor and I belive he had a Bloodstone that he liked to hit people with. Other than that he seems realy cool and embodies the character pretty well. Final question, why would I ever want to withold my attacks and not strike until Initiative 1?

If your opponent is faster than you, withholding is the obvious choice because then you're guaranteed to be able to make your attacks even if he kills you and you lose nothing.

He is BS 2 due having an eye shot out, that tends to effect your aim a bit i would bet for a bit of flavour. Also while he didn't have a bloodstone (those are for Klaivex's i think) he did have a Tormentor which does something similar by releasing waves of Energy, but all Incubi have them and they don't have rules (i personally believe they should count as assault grenades) so i left them out.

As to why he would choose to strike at I 1 is in a turn when you believe he will die before he gets to strike, for example in a chllange with a Daemon Prince there is little chance he will survive so he Deathblows so he will at least get his attacks.

Two things, first it's Morr not Mor and I belive he had a Bloodstone that he liked to hit people with. Other than that he seems realy cool and embodies the character pretty well. Final question, why would I ever want to withold my attacks and not strike until Initiative 1?

I checked up the bloodstone and found that the tusks of his helmet were discribed as bloodstone tusks that he shoot blood-red energy from I take it as he had access to a bloodstone or two and I wouldn't be surprised if he had the status of klaivex since he was an archon's chief incubus. I hadn't thought about the deathblow like that but it seems like a fun power now that I'm enlightened.

Aun'Vre Shas'Un'yi - Sword of the Ethereals[110pts]
A young Ethereal that is heralded to be the spiritual successor to the Savior of the Fire Caste Aun'Shi. Whereas most Ethereals learn the ways of the honour blade, the Aun'Vre chose to follow the path of the longarm. Greatly respected by the Fire Caste for his candor and solidarity, only time will tell if he will live up to or surpass his predecessor.

WS4 BS4 S3 T3 W2 I3 A3 Ld9 Sv5+
Equipment:
Recon Armor
Shield Generator
Rail Rifle
Photon Grenades
EMP Grenades

Special Rules:
Stubborn
Independent Character
Failure is Not an Option
Spirit of Fire - May only join Fire Warrior units. Confers the Sworn Protector rule to the unit.
Lesser Invocations-[Works as Elemental Invocations]
-Introspective Aim - Reroll 1s to hit.
-Steadfast Bulwark - Reroll Overwatch
-Unyielding Defiance - May retreat d6" after overwatch and before the enemy charge.
-Focused Devastation - Change weapon profile to Heavy1,Sniper

Ethereal with a gun? No. No no no.

 BoomWolf wrote:
Ethereal with a gun? No. No no no.

And an Ethereal in close combat with a polearm is much better?

 acekevin8412 wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:
Ethereal with a gun? No. No no no.

And an Ethereal in close combat with a polearm is much better?

Yes.

I like it, but would make it so his buffs only effect his own unit rather then the Ethereal Buff Bubble, otherwise i see no reason to ever take an Ethereal without a gun, especially a rail rifle. Also you should change the Sniper Rule to something else, mass Str 5 with Rending is murder to vehicles, unless of course you meant the new profile only effects him, in which case it's kinda rubbish. I would also swap the Darkstrider C+P ability with something else, why steal a rule that makes another hero unique?

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
I like it, but would make it so his buffs only effect his own unit rather then the Ethereal Buff Bubble, otherwise i see no reason to ever take an Ethereal without a gun, especially a rail rifle. Also you should change the Sniper Rule to something else, mass Str 5 with Rending is murder to vehicles, unless of course you meant the new profile only effects him, in which case it's kinda rubbish. I would also swap the Darkstrider C+P ability with something else, why steal a rule that makes another hero unique?

Thanks for the critique. Here is my response.

I was baiting the waters with his Lesser Invocations. Whether or not to reduce his range to 6". Or buff the abilities but make it only apply to his unit. I also think I'm gonna swap out the BS4 and Rail Rifle with token BS3 and pulse rifle like his charges. Another thing I intended was to replace the unit's profile to R30" SX AP5 Heavy1, Sniper for a rifle and R18" SX AP5 Heavy1, Sniper for the carbine. Will finally think of something to not step on Darkstrider's hooves.

V2:
WS4 BS4 S3 T3 W2 I3 A3 Ld9 Sv5+
Equipment:
Recon Armor
Shield Generator
Pulse Rifle
Photon Grenades
EMP Grenades

Special Rules:
Stubborn
Independent Character
Failure is Not an Option
Spirit of Fire - May only join Fire Warrior units. Confers the Sworn Protector rule to the unit.
Lesser Invocations-[Works as normal Elemental Invocations but with 6" range only]
-Introspective Aim - Reroll 1s to hit.
-Steadfast Bulwark - Reroll Overwatch
-Unyielding Defiance - On the first turn of an assault, the unit may forgo their normal attacks. Each model may make one shot with a shooting weapon using their WS instead of BS.
-Focused Devastation - Change weapon profile to Heavy1,Sniper

They look better, a nice mix between Fireblade and Ethereal. The only problem i see, not sure if intended, is that adding Sniper makes these guys unreasonably good against Vehicals. As in being able to pen AV 12 good. Rending is simply to good on Tau weaponry due to high basic strength, it would be far better to just cherry pick the rules with in Sniper (such as precision shot, Wounding on 4's, AP 2 on wounds of a 6) as this would avoid giving it rending, as that is the only part that makes them overpowered.

Sniper ignores the Strength of the weapon, and is basically StrX, always wounds on a 4+, and is Str3 against AV.

Thanks, now i know someone who has been playing Death Marks wrong.

So is it alright if I bring up an old character sometime to edit it as well as introduce some others. IG got updated and I'd like to fix up my commander as well as a few other little deails. I've also started developing an Inquisition ST army and I'd like to make a character or two for that (probably for one to die off eventually) and a last regiment that is really hoardy. And have no fears! Now all the power weapons cost the same

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
Thanks, now i know someone who has been playing Death Marks wrong.

Deathmarks rifles are StrX, Sniper, but they have a special rule that allows them to designate a single unit that they wound on a 2+ that game.

 StarTrotter wrote:
So is it alright if I bring up an old character sometime to edit it as well as introduce some others. IG got updated and I'd like to fix up my commander as well as a few other little deails. I've also started developing an Inquisition ST army and I'd like to make a character or two for that (probably for one to die off eventually) and a last regiment that is really hoardy. And have no fears! Now all the power weapons cost the same

Go for it.

If you need any help, check out and/or post in my Unit Creation Guide and Workshop thread

Noticed an oversight in my Ethereal so I figured I'd ask my fellow thread followers for advice.

I think that the following abilities are too similar:
-Steadfast Bulwark - Reroll Overwatch
-Unyielding Defiance - On the first turn of an assault, the unit may forgo their normal attacks. Each model may make one shot with a shooting weapon using their WS instead of BS.

So here's my attempt to differentiate them:
Steadfast Bulwark - Reroll Overwatch and gain Counterattack.
Unyielding Defiance ->Defiant Sacrifice - A unit with this rule allows enemy units it is in combat with to be targeted by fire. However, misses of 1/2 are allocated to the unit with this rule instead of the targeted unit. May not benefit from Markerlights.
--So as an example let's say a Fire Warrior unit with this rule is locked with tactical Marines and 12 Fire Warriors rapid fire into the melee:
8 shots hit Fire Warriors>6-7Wound>3-4Unsaved
12 shots hit the marines>8Wound>2-3Unsaved

Anyone have other suggestions that might differentiate the two?

Here's my own chapter master for the angels of absolution

Chapter master Belisarius "the stonewall" of the angels of absolution

Points 210
WS 6
BS 5
S 5
T 5
W 4
I 4
A 4
Ld 10
Sv 2+

Unit type: infantry

Wargear:
Terminator armour
Storm shield
Iron halo

The spear of absolution;
Normal
Range: -
S: user
AP: 2
Type: melee, bane of the traitor

Extensive bionics: having had most of his right side crushed by the power fist of the fallen angel Zatorael he was forced to have large parts of his body remade with bionics giving him some changes in his stats making him considerably tougher than normal but damaging his reflexes and agility giving him the slow and purposeful rule.

Special rules: independent character, inner circle, deathwing assault, vengeful strike, grand master of the angels of absolution (the same as Azrael has), hammer of wrath

Indomitable wall; provided Imperael and his unit did not run in the preceding movement phase his unit gets the counter-attack special rule. In addition, provided Belisarius is not locked in combat and didn't run, he inflicts D3 hits on a charging unit using any weapons and bonuses from wargear at initiative step 10.

 Dantioch wrote:
Here's my own chapter master for the angels of absolution

Chapter master Belisarius "the stonewall" of the angels of absolution

Points 220
WS 6
BS 5
S 5
T 5
W 4
I 4
A 4
Ld 10
Sv 2+

Unit type: infantry

Wargear:
Terminator armour
Storm shield
Iron halo

The spear of absolution;
Normal
Range: -
S: user
AP: 2
Type: melee, two-handed, bane of the traitor

Extensive bionics: having had most of his right side crushed by the power fist of the fallen angel Zatorael he was forced to have large parts of his body remade with bionics giving him some changes in his stats making him considerably tougher than normal but damaging his reflexes and agility.

Special rules: independent character, inner circle, deathwing assault, vengeful strike, grand master of the angels of absolution (the same as Azrael has), hammer of wrath

Indomitable wall; provided Imperael and his unit did not run in the preceding movement phase his unit gets the counter-attack special rule. In addition, provided Belisarius is not locked in combat and didn't run, he inflicts D3 hits on a charging unit using any weapons and bonuses from wargear at initiative step 10.

How has he been adversely effected by Extensive Bionics?

Initiative 4, instead of the usual 5 for chapter masters