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 Eilif wrote:

Yes multipart HIPS is awesome, a better material that I will continue to buy, and not likely to go anywhere, and yes Mantic puts out a good product that is price competitive. However, things are changing in the 3d printing realm that are going to take increasingly large bites out of the market.

Can"t exalt this more. This is exactly what I meant.

World is changing, customer habits too...and Mantic Games that is constantly trying to surf on his reputation of being "cheap wargames" is faced with a lot of price hikes because of new factors that keep growing, and that they can't ignore anymore.

You may try to ignore this reality, but it's still there.

By the way,3D printing has nothing to do with crypto, because we do have a physical product in our hands at the end. Here, the digital is just a mean to an end, not the end in itself that turns out useless.


Old players / fans aren't the problem. They are used to their own habits that are hard to break, and can be more easily faithful. The real trouble are new players, who don't have the same affinity to the "old ways" because they didn't have to grow up with them. They're the more likely to think twice about what is the best in their case, and quickly adapt to more useful, practical habits.

Without a strong community tissue like a network of clubs / dedicated stores, you can't teach them properly "the good ways" to these new customers. GW has that, so they keep attracting new players just fine to keep buying their miniatures, even though they're expensive. Will Mantic Games be able to do the same, or drop the gauntlet by not investing enough time and money into this ?

Because if Mantic Games answer to the recruitment of new blood is "just let the fans do our job without being paid", that won't be enough IMHO.

Well to be honest most printbros still consider having a printer their hobby. At least in my parts. They just tinker and print random junk. Users who see it as a tool for something specific - prototyping, art, minis... are IME still a minority. I see it as a difference between the hobby of having an SUV, or needing an SUV to drive your scuba gear around for doing your actual hobby of scuba diving.

But for sure we should respect any miniatures company that has enough foresight to already be adjusting to a world where printing miniatures at home is trivially easy for a significant chunk of their potential customer base.

I would not consider Mantic cheap in the overall HIPS market

1,75€ for plastic infantry from Mantic is on the upper end with 0,5€ from HAT the lowest you can find and most others are between 0,8 and 1,8€ per model
it is just GW that is way above everyone else and as long as those are there Mantic is the cheap alternative
others are cheaper, but those kits are also more "random" without a specific game in mind so no need to adjust for weapon options etc like the WGA Halflings are cheap but without the possibility to build all models with the same weapon, or Victrix which are cheap but you end up buying more boxes and models you don't need if you build an army with it (doing a Kings of War Army with Victrix Normas won't change much in the overall price although it is cheaper per model)


for 3D prints its different, I bought infantry models for 0,5€ as well but from people printing at home doing at as a hobby or service for fellow wargamers
yet this is not different from 15 years ago when people started resin casting at home, still have a bag full of custom-made resin square bases I paid less than per piece than I would for plain mdf or plastic bases

as long as a lot of people do it as a hobby, prices will be competitive
but I don't expect this to stay that way as with raising energy prices, people will need to compensate those and not just do a basic "how much models can I make with 1L resin = price per model" or stop doing it at all

and commercially available ones are already above the 2€ per model (and often 4-5€) because they have to cover all the costs

 kodos wrote:
I would not consider Mantic cheap in the overall HIPS market

1,75€ for plastic infantry from Mantic is on the upper end with 0,5€ from HAT the lowest you can find and most others are between 0,8 and 1,8€ per model
it is just GW that is way above everyone else and as long as those are there Mantic is the cheap alternative
others are cheaper, but those kits are also more "random" without a specific game in mind so no need to adjust for weapon options etc like the WGA Halflings are cheap but without the possibility to build all models with the same weapon, or Victrix which are cheap but you end up buying more boxes and models you don't need if you build an army with it (doing a Kings of War Army with Victrix Normas won't change much in the overall price although it is cheaper per model)


for 3D prints its different, I bought infantry models for 0,5€ as well but from people printing at home doing at as a hobby or service for fellow wargamers
yet this is not different from 15 years ago when people started resin casting at home, still have a bag full of custom-made resin square bases I paid less than per piece than I would for plain mdf or plastic bases

as long as a lot of people do it as a hobby, prices will be competitive
but I don't expect this to stay that way as with raising energy prices, people will need to compensate those and not just do a basic "how much models can I make with 1L resin = price per model" or stop doing it at all

and commercially available ones are already above the 2€ per model (and often 4-5€) because they have to cover all the costs

I agree with all this except your estimation of the composition and inherent fragility of the small shop market.

3d printers have indeed lowered the bar of entry for hobby businesspeople and they will certainly affect the legacy metal figure market in similar ways as they seem to be affecting the lasercut terrain market. However, the miniature wargaming hobby has several decades of small shops -both full time businesses and solo part timers- and it's had it's own market trends. Many of these companies (not friends producing for each other) had/have long tenures by offering quality figures at a fraction of the cost of the big dogs, just as we see today and some have enjoyed such longevity that their owners are heading into retirement and selling off the company's assets to new generations of owners.

I've been buying from these sorts of companies for 20 years (and it was going on long before that) and they will likely continue on into the future. The field of hobbyist business printers might winnow a bit, but you're already seeing folks upping their game, building 3d printer farms, etc., and some of them are finding their way into sustainable businesses.

As this is a Mantic thread, it bears recognizing that just what we've heard from them so far does indicate that Mantic may be pushing to the head of the pack in terms of established brand miniature companies at least trying to find ways to work in concert with emerging 3d printing trends. I'm very interested to see what they come up with.

I agree, but this is now the 4th big trend in wargaming were small shops push the hobby (and vice versa) at least what I have seen

we have seen Papercraft, Resin casting, Lasercut and now 3D printing

each driven by a demand from the hobby that was not fulfilled by big companies, in combination with technology or raw material being available for regular people

when everyone had access to high quality printers, papercraft became a thing, also as a cheap alternative to GW for large models like tanks, while it was and still is only a real option for terrain

Resin casting as the materials became available in the hardware stores, and people wanted models/weapons for cheap that GW did not make

the big hype for laser cutters as they became affordable and making wargaming terrain for the fraction of a price of what GW wants, yet not many are left (although almost every school here has a laser cutter now)

3D printing offers more possibility than any past technology, and in combination with the ability to easy scan models and alter them makes it easier to re-produce bits

but the main driving point is simply to be cheaper than GW and get a share of the Warhammer market as 40k sells and GW does not fulfil the demand
so all the small shops can survive because of GWs prices and the market dominance of the GW IPs, if this changes in any way the market will as well and the small shops are the first to vanish

we see also the first non-GW products coming up and neither the models nor the files are cheap. Napoleonic niche armies that will never see a regular casting cost ~180€ for the files alone in good quality (they re-production of existing plastics are way cheaper of course because they compete with HIPS but are also worse in quality)


coming back to Mantic, lets compare the 3, GW, PP and MG
GW is shutting down 3D printing wherever it is possible, PP has switched to full 3D printing and we will see if this works out (I doubt it until they get local printing centres as distribution hubs to take full advantage) and MG will be the middle ground by producing HIPS and selling STLs for upgrades

while WotC is going full virtual for D&D doing a no models at all system

 kodos wrote:
I agree, but this is now the 4th big trend in wargaming were small shops push the hobby (and vice versa) at least what I have seen

we have seen Papercraft, Resin casting, Lasercut and now 3D printing

each driven by a demand from the hobby that was not fulfilled by big companies, in combination with technology or raw material being available for regular people

when everyone had access to high quality printers, papercraft became a thing, also as a cheap alternative to GW for large models like tanks, while it was and still is only a real option for terrain

Resin casting as the materials became available in the hardware stores, and people wanted models/weapons for cheap that GW did not make

the big hype for laser cutters as they became affordable and making wargaming terrain for the fraction of a price of what GW wants, yet not many are left (although almost every school here has a laser cutter now)

3D printing offers more possibility than any past technology, and in combination with the ability to easy scan models and alter them makes it easier to re-produce bits

but the main driving point is simply to be cheaper than GW and get a share of the Warhammer market as 40k sells and GW does not fulfil the demand
so all the small shops can survive because of GWs prices and the market dominance of the GW IPs, if this changes in any way the market will as well and the small shops are the first to vanish

we see also the first non-GW products coming up and neither the models nor the files are cheap. Napoleonic niche armies that will never see a regular casting cost ~180€ for the files alone in good quality (they re-production of existing plastics are way cheaper of course because they compete with HIPS but are also worse in quality)


coming back to Mantic, lets compare the 3, GW, PP and MG
GW is shutting down 3D printing wherever it is possible, PP has switched to full 3D printing and we will see if this works out (I doubt it until they get local printing centres as distribution hubs to take full advantage) and MG will be the middle ground by producing HIPS and selling STLs for upgrades

while WotC is going full virtual for D&D doing a no models at all system

I think you're mostly looking at a the GW and GW competition side of the equation and trends of the last 10 years which is a pretty slim window given the ubiquity and history of small shops outside that arena. A few things.

-Papercraft has always been a niche hobby (with limited wargaming overlap) and continues to be so, along with laser cut card. As you point out it's been primarily in the terrain market and never really made a big on miniatures. How many times have we actually seen papercraft tanks on the table? I don't see much different in the papercraft, MDF and laser-cut-card trends which are mostly just slightly different ways of serving the same niche.

-Resin casting in wargaming has a 3+ decade history in miniatures, parts, terrain and vehicles. Maybe it's on the decline, maybe not, but it's by no means a brief wave.

-Metal is and has been a staple of small shops for even longer. It's clearly out of favor in the big-name games, but that's not surprising. It chugs along in a more limited capacity.

-Napoleonics is an interesting aspect you've mentioned a few times. It has benefited massively from increased plastics in the past decade, and yet it still has a robust amount of metal miniatures in the market. Often this is to supplement plastic lines. However there are also as entire metal ranges serving metal versions of standard units and also unique units that cannot be replaced in HIPS. This will probably be affected by 3d Printing, but more gradually as metal for napoleonics isn't generally (though there are exceptions) terribly expensive. Plus historical gamers have a long-view that differs from many sci-fi and fantasy gamers. Purchasing some quality metal miniatures at a premium price is not as big an emotional hit when you know they will never go out-of-style, will be playable in various rulesets for decades and changing "meta" is simply not an issue.

$180 for the files for a Napoleonic army may seem expensive, but it's not terribly when compared to the higher end of the naps/historical market and it's even less surprising compared to the cost to commission and put into production a range of metal figures (something some hobbyists are still willing to do). Printing an entire army ends up looking quite affordable, plus over time if the demand is there, the market will grow, competition will grow, prices will cut, etc.... I

-Lastly, -and similar to my earlier post- I don't think the 3d market needs to rely soley on GW ubiquity for success, nor will it necessarily be fragile because of it. Whomever is the big-dog in the wargaming world will have the most knock-offs and peripheral companies serving it's market, but other niches await to be filled. Witness the increase in models for role playing, Legion, and other such needs. Small shops might suffer if a market changes, but they've weathered such changes before. Compared to resin or metal casting, when the market changes it's far easier to just buy the rights to a new set of STL's and load them up. A metal or resin producer has to commission a new set of masters, make molds, and cast new figures. Given the incredible growth in the availability of STL's it's never been easier for a small shop to change it's product range nearly overnight.

first of all, I mean those things done by regular people, not professionals or as business

like Resin casting is old, but 15-20 years ago it made the jump into the hobby as "something everyone can do at home without much afford", similar as 3D printing now
and like 2/3 of the people in the Club made their own casting, with only 2 doing their own unique masters and the rest just copied existing models (similar like 3D printing now) and from all those doing it in Europe, 2-3 made the jump to become professional and are still around today (hence why I don't think many of the small hobby printers will last very long)

and at least here, Papercraft was the main source for Wargaming for a long time
like the old crowed started with Papercraft infantry, tanks and terrain because this was available and cheap (this changed with the 1/72 models from Revell became a thing as ordering metal models was not only expansive but also complicated)
and you still can buy papercraft books with pre-cut models for easy gaming

$180 for the files for a Napoleonic army may seem expensive, but it's not terribly when compared to the higher end of the naps/historical market and it's even less surprising compared to the cost to commission and put into production a range of metal figures (something some hobbyists are still willing to do). Printing an entire army ends up looking quite affordable, plus over time if the demand is there, the market will grow, competition will grow, prices will cut, etc.... I

yeah, hence the focus around GW as for non-GW the 3D printing market looks very different and why "20€ for a full 40k army" is not a good argument for "3D printing is the future and will replace HIPS"

-Lastly, -and similar to my earlier post- I don't think the 3d market needs to rely soley on GW ubiquity for success, nor will it necessarily be fragile because of it.

well, I think the success of the 3D printing market will be by doing niche products that are not worth doing otherwise and will replace the resin bits markets in the long run while all the small GW focused ones won't that rely on the need of a cheap 40k meta army, won't last

again, talking for the regular people doing it at home as a side job, companies like Raging Heroes or Puppet Wars are a different story and I won't consider them "small" ones (as they have shown to be able to adjust to the market and shifting their focus)

and printing does not replace other methods were the demand is higher, as yes a shop can easily adept to the changing market, but this again is very GW focused as this is the only market were such changes are needed

(Legion is a good example for a niche market as the game as not model agnostic, you need to purchase the original ones for the rules/cards and the demand on alternate sculpts is low so a regular casting process to make a new Leia not worth it)

 kodos wrote:
I agree, but this is now the 4th big trend in wargaming were small shops push the hobby (and vice versa) at least what I have seen

It's curious that you consider it a new trend.

I started wargaming with 15mm ancient and medieval (DBM, if you want to know).

Small companies selling a bit of your hobby stuff is the norm and has been for decades.
It's pretty much an amalgamation of cottage industries that mail figures worldwide.
Especially at smaller scales.

The difference is that that kind of wargaming is about enabling hobbyists to engage with something they're interested in; rather than marketing a "game system" to buy into.

 .Mikes. wrote:

 Tamereth wrote:
What is it with a small minority of people trying to push everyone to 3D print.

Whenever I see these people posting I just mentally swap "3D printing" for "crypto" and it all falls into place.

3D printing is going to the moon, bro!

Filament hands!

 Zywus wrote:

 .Mikes. wrote:

 Tamereth wrote:
What is it with a small minority of people trying to push everyone to 3D print.

Whenever I see these people posting I just mentally swap "3D printing" for "crypto" and it all falls into place.

3D printing is going to the moon, bro!

Filament hands!

As much as I find this hillarious (and I do), the truth is that...

Sarouan wrote:
[
...,3D printing has nothing to do with crypto, because we do have a physical product in our hands at the end. Here, the digital is just a mean to an end, not the end in itself that turns out useless.

3d printing isn't an ethereal intangible like crypto. It's a tool that results in entirely tangible results like any other tool in a workshop. As for the uses we're discussing here, it's simply a faster (often cheaper) way to get toy soldiers into the hands of wargamers. More advances are surely in the works, and todays printers will be woefully outdone by whatever we have in a decade, but the cat is out of the bag and individuals and small shops now have the means of production more accessible than perhaps ever before.

3D printing solves one big issue that is there since the beginning of wargaming, distribution
that there might be someone producing the one thing you want/need, but shipping is impossible or too expensive

also the option that shops don't need to stock every single item but can print on demand where only small numbers are needed, which brings the overall cost down

a reason why PPs way of doing it is strange, as it just replaces regular casting but does not take the advantage of having multiple small factories around the world

 DarkBlack wrote:

 kodos wrote:
I agree, but this is now the 4th big trend in wargaming were small shops push the hobby (and vice versa) at least what I have seen

It's curious that you consider it a new trend.

not new, and not something companies do, but the 4th time a trend/technology get affordable enough that the gamers themselves fulfill the demand the companies cannot

and when I started it was almost impossible to get stuff from "the world", not many speaking english, none having a credit card and ordering blisters often get a random one from that faction and not the specific one you wanted
like it took me 3 orders at the mail order to finally get a cannon, because the other 2 times I got a mortar and the order always wrote "empire war machine" but I always asked for an empire cannon

papercraft, resin casting or MDF became a thing, not for shops but for hobbyist to sell to fellow wargamers, because things were not able to get otherwise

 kodos wrote:
3D printing solves one big issue that is there since the beginning of wargaming, distribution
that there might be someone producing the one thing you want/need, but shipping is impossible or too expensive...

...and when I started it was almost impossible to get stuff from "the world", not many speaking english, none having a credit card and ordering blisters often get a random one from that faction and not the specific one you wanted
like it took me 3 orders at the mail order to finally get a cannon, because the other 2 times I got a mortar and the order always wrote "empire war machine" but I always asked for an empire cannon

Excellent point.
I hadn't thought about the international implications of 3d printing. In a country where acquiring miniatures is more onerous a 3d printing producer/farm located there can acquire whatever STL's the market demands and take the hassle of international shipping and customs right out of the equation. I imagine it would be even easier since deals can be conducted in whatever form of electronic payment is most common in that country.

 Eilif wrote:

Excellent point.
I hadn't thought about the international implications of 3d printing. In a country where acquiring miniatures is more onerous a 3d printing producer/farm located there can acquire whatever STL's the market demands and take the hassle of international shipping and customs right out of the equation. I imagine it would be even easier since deals can be conducted in whatever form of electronic payment is most common in that country.

The problem with that approach is that the further you spread out in that manner, the harder it is to keep tabs on the quality of the prints being produced. This is a problem with 3D printing in general, from a business point of view... the miniatures that make it onto the table are going to be what the company is judged on. If all anyone sees is dodgy prints, that potentially winds up skewing the perception of the brand.

The bigger problem from a business perspective is that once the STLs are out in the wild, there is absolutely no way of stopping them from being shared around. I suspect that we won't see GW selling digital models until there is some reliable way of embedding DRM into them.

Offering conversion parts to supplement physical models is a nice middle ground approach. The main problem with it is that unless those parts are also sold in physical form, it restricts them to those with access to printers, which is going to make people who can't get them grumpy - see any discussion over the last 30 years or so of event-specific models sold only in person at the event.

3D printing is absolutely going to change the industry, but we're currently in a really awkward mid-phase where it's only available to some people and needs some significant improvements to become more widespread. And until that happens, it's difficult for miniature producers to completely embrace it.

don't think that bad prints will have a big influence on the company's reputation

Foregworld models were bad, really bad and the reliable way of saying if it is a Chinese/Russian re-cast or not was if it is not warped and has no failures, it is a re-cast
same as people still buy Finecast with "it is not that bad"

at the same time Mantic Resin is one of the best out there and cheap compared to GW, yet people talking as if it is worse than FW or Finecast.

and Ronnie siad that 3D prints will be in addition to the regular Resin casting, not replacing it

I have a lot of time for Mantic, I've met Ronnie Renton and his enthusiasm is great. At the moment I'm only really buying Terrain crate sets. I backed the Vanguard kickstarter but that's still sitting in a box up in the loft.
Kings of War was something I tried getting my gaming group into, I even bought several armies so they could us one of mine to play but still no interest. Sadly i think the ship has sailed with regards to ever getting anyone playing it.

 Eilif wrote:

The bigger problem from a business perspective is that once the STLs are out in the wild, there is absolutely no way of stopping them from being shared around. I suspect that we won't see GW selling digital models until there is some reliable way of embedding DRM into them.

I'm a sculptor myself. There's a reason why Kickstarter, Patreon and other pre-sale or subscription services are the bedrock of how everyone makes their money, it allows a small window where the models are for sale, but not for download, so piracy (and the even worse matter of illegal STL resellers) isn't an issue.

I'm not too surprised Mantic are offering it within the context of upgrade parts for their HIPs kits though, even if those end up widely pirated, you still need the Mantic minis to make use of them.

 kodos wrote:

at the same time Mantic Resin is one of the best out there and cheap compared to GW, yet people talking as if it is worse than FW or Finecast.

I think it depends what kind of resin they use with their production.

I loved my resin fire elemental (flexible, easy to cut), but hated the resin halfling upgrades (too britle, too thin parts). They were definitely not the same resin.

and Ronnie siad that 3D prints will be in addition to the regular Resin casting, not replacing it

It was specifically about upgrade sets, I think the stl were meant to replace them because they're not profitable.

 insaniak wrote:

 Eilif wrote:

Excellent point.
I hadn't thought about the international implications of 3d printing. In a country where acquiring miniatures is more onerous a 3d printing producer/farm located there can acquire whatever STL's the market demands and take the hassle of international shipping and customs right out of the equation. I imagine it would be even easier since deals can be conducted in whatever form of electronic payment is most common in that country.

The problem with that approach is that the further you spread out in that manner, the harder it is to keep tabs on the quality of the prints being produced. This is a problem with 3D printing in general, from a business point of view... the miniatures that make it onto the table are going to be what the company is judged on. If all anyone sees is dodgy prints, that potentially winds up skewing the perception of the brand.

The bigger problem from a business perspective is that once the STLs are out in the wild, there is absolutely no way of stopping them from being shared around. I suspect that we won't see GW selling digital models until there is some reliable way of embedding DRM into them.

Offering conversion parts to supplement physical models is a nice middle ground approach. The main problem with it is that unless those parts are also sold in physical form, it restricts them to those with access to printers, which is going to make people who can't get them grumpy - see any discussion over the last 30 years or so of event-specific models sold only in person at the event.

3D printing is absolutely going to change the industry, but we're currently in a really awkward mid-phase where it's only available to some people and needs some significant improvements to become more widespread. And until that happens, it's difficult for miniature producers to completely embrace it.

Yeah, I wasn't addressing GW themselves or even the private individuals with printers where it's near impossible to regulate. More the many artists who sell STL's with reproduction rights. Of course there's the matter of enforcement in another country, but the dispersal of printing farms still means there are ways for the purchase of a 3d printed model to happen across borders in ways that are not possible with other materials.

I do think we'll see cheap or free STL's designed for a customizing a company's miniatures becoming quite common. They'll probably be a loss leader, but they could drive sales of a base kit. You could also see a limited number of highly-regulated "licensed" shops selling these 3d printed parts under agreement with the manufacturer. The files might still get out though....


Automatically Appended Next Post:

scarletsquig wrote:


I'm a sculptor myself. There's a reason why Kickstarter, Patreon and other pre-sale or subscription services are the bedrock of how everyone makes their money, it allows a small window where the models are for sale, but not for download, so piracy (and the even worse matter of illegal STL resellers) isn't an issue.

I'm not too surprised Mantic are offering it within the context of upgrade parts for their HIPs kits though, even if those end up widely pirated, you still need the Mantic minis to make use of them.

Thanks for that explanation. Makes alot of sense and I hadn't heard it explained quite that way before.

One interesting thing now that the new dungeon adventure sets are being opened, dungeon critters set is on a hard plastic sprue:

https://blog.untilsomebodylosesaneye.net/2022/10/mean-little-critters.html

scarletsquig wrote:
One interesting thing now that the new dungeon adventure sets are being opened, dungeon critters set is on a hard plastic sprue:

https://blog.untilsomebodylosesaneye.net/2022/10/mean-little-critters.html

What a glow up for the old GW fantasy swarms sprue, eh? Missing the snotling tho

scarletsquig wrote:
One interesting thing now that the new dungeon adventure sets are being opened, dungeon critters set is on a hard plastic sprue:

https://blog.untilsomebodylosesaneye.net/2022/10/mean-little-critters.html

So at least 5 sprues to make some numbers needed for many games. Nice to have them in HIPS.

https://www.manticgames.com/news/the-mantic-companion-its-free-for-everyone-until-february-2023/

Bah. Just another marketing trick. When someone says "free for 3 months", I'm still looking at the price after these 3 months.

Still nothing about those private datas collection by the app, though.

I was scrubbing through the YouTube video but found the details I was looking for in this Mantic post. Specifically this:



So $4.50-5.00 USD a month. I happily paid $20 a year for EasyArmy (RIP), triple that for an app I don't particularly want isn't the best feel, however it does seem like there's at least initially a freeware version: "We are launching the app with a entry level free tier which will allow you to build TWO full lists per Mantic game." Originally I didn't pay for EA either, but now that I have dozens of lists saved on there I clearly haven't looked back

I dunno, call me ambivalent. I'm just hoping that it still works in browser, I use my phone too much as it is and prefer to mess with lists on my (work) comp

I'll stick to Excel like a real man.

Interesting. I'm not totally against paying $5 a month for an app depending on what it offers. I only really need KoW functionality though.

In fact, I'm about to cancel my Easy Army subscription because I found a free version.

Also, it's a bit of apples and oranges, but once you've experienced the ease of use of the free army list builders offered by One Page Rules for their games, it does make one less interested in paying for such a product.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
I'll stick to Excel like a real man.

I'll continue to use the pen and paper, like a primitive savage I am.

 Knight wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
I'll stick to Excel like a real man.

I'll continue to use the pen and paper, like a primitive savage I am.

Is the true way, we play tactile games to escape the ever increasing digital world. It might be my age, but I'm a bit fed up with apps for this that and the other, especially in Table Top Wargaming, just feels unnecessary and intrusive.

The free part will be enough for me and offline availablity will be a big plus over easyarmy

Also a better/easier access to the free rules is something I am looking forward to

If the other parts are of use for me will be seen after testing them during the free trial

£60 a year for the occasional times I use the army builder? Far too pricey for me.
I like to read my lore in books (I hope this app doesn't replace that) and I can do the army building using pen/paper.
60 quid could get me a few games for my PC off Steam which would provide hours more value than an army builder app.
Sorry Mantic.