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Cool, I'll have to wait for my lizards but I can start with my goblins. I like how they have goblins and orks separate

Wow... I've only played KoW a couple of years ago. Few games to test it out.
Got my hands on the latest beta rules ... they are damn sweet. Easy and simple, yet I can immediately see depth and strategy.

 Polonius wrote:

 Fenriswulf wrote:
I'll be interested to see their take on a Chaos Warriors list though, as that's one group I wouldn't mind re-imagining for KoW.

Is that the "shattered clans" list that's been mentioned?

Going with Clans, rather than marks, would allow them to create four distinct themes. Blood Clan, Plague Clan, Trickster Clan, and Pleasure Clan.

The approach I suggested for a Beastman-equivalent but human faction was as totem warriors. The marks of the four Chaos gods would represent warriors of the four major totems - the Gorghon Totem would be Khorne, the Cygor Totem would be Tzeentch, and so on.

RoninXiC wrote:
Wow... I've only played KoW a couple of years ago. Few games to test it out.
Got my hands on the latest beta rules ... they are damn sweet. Easy and simple, yet I can immediately see depth and strategy.

That is great to hear! I've seen very positive reviews of the ruleset from a number of places, with the only criticism being that the rules were too simple - but given that fantasy was always a little too complex for me (in that we got into hairy rules situations often), and given the other modern alternatives being vastly more simple this definitely looks like the ruleset for me! I am very much looking forward to the pdf being released

I really like the implementation of the reform after lost combat. Smart idea to to it this way.

 RiTides wrote:

RoninXiC wrote:
Wow... I've only played KoW a couple of years ago. Few games to test it out.
Got my hands on the latest beta rules ... they are damn sweet. Easy and simple, yet I can immediately see depth and strategy.

That is great to hear! I've seen very positive reviews of the ruleset from a number of places, with the only criticism being that the rules were too simple - but given that fantasy was always a little too complex for me (in that we got into hairy rules situations often), and given the other modern alternatives being vastly more simple this definitely looks like the ruleset for me! I am very much looking forward to the pdf being released

Kings of War is simple only in that it doesn't get bogged down with a lot of special rules, and has a very simplified charge system. It's still fundamentally a game of manuever and piece swapping.

And it's always easier to add "grit" to a system than to take it out. House rules can really expand the options if both players allow.

And one thing that not getting bogged down in minutia allows is for KoW to be a true mass-battles game, in that it is won and lost in the movement phase.

I've said since my very first impression of the system that its movement phase is the most exciting and meaningful of almost any miniatures game I have ever played... and that fact really helps convey the mass-battles scale.

Another thing I notice is that people criticize the rules as being too simple, only when they read them without playing the actual game. Once you actually sit down with the rules to play you realize how tactical, and strategic it is, and how the rules support that, rather that end up obstacles to it.

 RiTides wrote:
I'd like to see you guy's takes on the new V2 rules when they hit. Certainly paying a lot more attention to this now lol, and didn't realize new rules were about to be released. Very good timing!

I've been playing the beta pdf's and can honestly say they made a great game even better, in no small part to our own Daedleh.

Right on. I know the "story" briefly became Alessio vs. Rules Committee with Mantic in the middle like an abused child, but I think we should give a lot of love to all parties.

Alessio, for good or ill, was challenged after a night of drinking a few years back to write a better rule-set within 10-pages than all of WHFB... within a week he created the skeleton of Kings of War.

Mantic, and in particular Ronnie himself have massively believed in the game.

And folks like Daedleh helped polish it into the most meticulously balanced, lean, elegant game system I have ever played.

The end result is a game that, frankly, challenges me to become a better designer myself.

 Fenriswulf wrote:
I am glad Mantic is going to have a closer look at Twilight Kin, but I am kind of bummed that the Death Stalker Simulacre has been dropped from the list. Is it coming back at all?

Seconded.

I currently have a Greek Hoplite army using the Kingdoms of Men rules, with Twilight Kin allies - I use Twilight Kin Spearmen as Spartans, since they have slightly higher nerve and are vicious - which allows me to unlock the Death Stalkre Simulacre - which is my Talos (from Mierce miniatures)

Thanks for all in the input about the rules, guys - it sounds great! I've been PM'ing with Polonius (who is now in range of gaming with) about my force for Abyssal Dwarfs, and am looking forward to making this my next army project

Please tell me there is some kind of bonus for slamming my converted Fisty Glue Man mini on the table, screaming "sticka shock, sucka" and squirting on my opponent's dog in the face. I need to know this is the game for me.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Please tell me there is some kind of bonus for slamming my converted Fisty Glue Man mini on the table, screaming "sticka shock, sucka" and squirting on my opponent's dog in the face. I need to know this is the game for me.

Only after KoW 3rd Edition, "Age of Mantica" comes out. Also, if you field Ronnie the Bard, and sing your orders all game long, you auto-win.

Fresh from the mantic blog, heres Rick priestlys guest intro to the new edition of kow

“When asked to write these few introductory words I hardly expected to find myself writing the foreword to what is undoubtedly now the most popular mass-battle fantasy game on the market!”

“Many converts have found themselves won over by a mixture of solid game play, straight-forward but elegant mechanics, and an approach to development that plainly puts the player first.”

“Well done especially to its creator and designer Alessio Cavatore. I have worked together with Alessio on many gaming projects over the years, both historical and fantasy, and have always appreciated his clear and focussed approach to game design, instinct for uncluttered rules, and – most of all – boundless and unquenchable enthusiasm for games and gaming.”

That is a timely and barbed foreword. I hope its prophetic too, as I would love to see KoW really blow-up in popularity.

I see a lot of vocal Mantic haters write vitriol and act like man-babies about how gak they claim Mantic's models are... but how can you throw hate at a company SO willing to let you use any models you like, even in their official tournaments?

Kings of War is legitimately a game you can play at the highest levels having never given the company a penny... so why not give it at least a fair try?

Aesthetics are of course always a subjective, personal choice, and mechanically Mantic minis get better every time they go through a development cycle. But the rules? The rules are excellent, and free, right now.

My issues with mantic primarily comes down to misrepresenting themselves and changing their minds on 2 kickstarters I've now participated in.

Add in the fact that local stores won't carry their actual product for KoW because of their current working model (i.e. Kickstarter everything) and that they have had to inflate the prices of their models to account for them only being sellable at 20% off.

That said KoW does look like a fun ruleset and I'm going to be playing it if I can find people willing to play it. But without local store support that isn't a huge possibility in the area.

 Hulksmash wrote:
My issues with mantic primarily comes down to misrepresenting themselves and changing their minds on 2 kickstarters I've now participated in.

Add in the fact that local stores won't carry their actual product for KoW because of their current working model (i.e. Kickstarter everything) and that they have had to inflate the prices of their models to account for them only being sellable at 20% off.

That said KoW does look like a fun ruleset and I'm going to be playing it if I can find people willing to play it. But without local store support that isn't a huge possibility in the area.

You realize your two, totally valid, complaints are the reason Mantic is at odds with itself, and trying to change, right?

Mantic has knowingly admitted that their Kickstarter model gave them a huge chance to grow, and well... kick-start games like KoW into full lines, but know that their deals, and thrice open Pledge-Managers, etc... were making them persona-non-grata at friendly game shops. Everyone knew to buy in HARD during Pledge-Managers as products would never be that cheap again.

So now Mantic has made the super difficult decision to stop re-opening the Pledge Manager, concurrent with their decision to send out Organized Play Kits, etc... to really support the retail shops, and hopefully build the community on that end, hold tournaments, etc.

Their sin was not always communicating this well, but I do "get" it. The other half of the dilemma is that their models have progressed in quality quickly, but not quickly enough to utterly shed their "Mantic: Almost" reputation, and as such a ton of people were really waiting to see models, and thus went light on the Pledge Manager, expecting it to re-open.

Essentially all their feth-ups are interwoven in a way where it would have been hard to come out making everyone happy, though as I said, better communication would have gone a long way toward being the remedy. Its why I have been pushing Ronnie forever to let me be a US Community Manager, knowing guys like Stewart are way spread thin, making communication even leaner.

 Hulksmash wrote:
My issues with mantic primarily comes down to misrepresenting themselves and changing their minds on 2 kickstarters I've now participated in.

Add in the fact that local stores won't carry their actual product for KoW because of their current working model (i.e. Kickstarter everything) and that they have had to inflate the prices of their models to account for them only being sellable at 20% off.

That said KoW does look like a fun ruleset and I'm going to be playing it if I can find people willing to play it. But without local store support that isn't a huge possibility in the area.

I believe Mr Renton has said something along the lines that he realises that their KS projects have hurt their standing in the FLGS community and he wishes to address this and make things right.

Personally I think I is a very fine line to walk in regards to KS and FLGS. On the one hand KS makes it possible to do projects and such that wouldn't normally be feasible or take a very long time to complete. But then on the other if your selling through KS with great discounts to draw more backers in to increase the funding goal so more unlocks can be hit so the project can be as much of a success as possible you will eventually alienate the FLGS community which will in turn hurt the future growth of the company.

Like any other organization that's lost some trust, they just need a few relatively seamless successes to get back on the horse.

Launching a good rule set and trying to get product into stores in a way that will sell would be a big first step, and I think aggressively trying to recruit Pathfinders in the US would only help.

That they contintue to be so short handed after years of kickstarter money rolling in makes me a touch worried about there ability to manage growth.

I think they need to wrap up there current outstanding KS, get WP up on KS then leave it alone for a good long time. Let things settle and grow, I don't want to see what happened to Dreadball happen to Mantics other projects.

 edlowe wrote:
Fresh from the mantic blog, heres Rick priestlys guest intro to the new edition of kow

“When asked to write these few introductory words I hardly expected to find myself writing the foreword to what is undoubtedly now the most popular mass-battle fantasy game on the market!”

“Many converts have found themselves won over by a mixture of solid game play, straight-forward but elegant mechanics, and an approach to development that plainly puts the player first.”

“Well done especially to its creator and designer Alessio Cavatore. I have worked together with Alessio on many gaming projects over the years, both historical and fantasy, and have always appreciated his clear and focussed approach to game design, instinct for uncluttered rules, and – most of all – boundless and unquenchable enthusiasm for games and gaming.”

I'm going to quote this while rolling to wound with my dwarf gun line in AOS because SHOTS FIRED!

There seem to be a big contingent of players using WHFB armies in KoW... What do you guys think will happen when GW slowly discontinues the old WHFB models and replace them with AoS models that will probably not take well to ranking up in neat lines, or might have a totally different aesthetic that some people may not like? Will people buy Mantic models, something else, or nothing? Personally I would love to play KoW, but only using the Warhammer world and models, since I hate most of Mantic's line and couldn't care less about their fluff. If I couldn't buy the GW models anymore, playing KoW would get very hard!

There's tons of companies making cheap square bases out there, I recommend Proxie models since base sizes don't matter in AoS, you can just use square ones instead

Mind you, base sizes don't matter in KOW either, only unit footprints do.

 Compel wrote:
Mind you, base sizes don't matter in KOW either, only unit footprints do.

This is, for the most part, true. Unit footprints do depend on the base size for the models, so a Horde of Orcs is larger than a horde of elves, but the individual bases don't matter if you are multi-basing.

Mymearan wrote:
There seem to be a big contingent of players using WHFB armies in KoW... What do you guys think will happen when GW slowly discontinues the old WHFB models and replace them with AoS models that will probably not take well to ranking up in neat lines, or might have a totally different aesthetic that some people may not like? Will people buy Mantic models, something else, or nothing? Personally I would love to play KoW, but only using the Warhammer world and models, since I hate most of Mantic's line and couldn't care less about their fluff. If I couldn't buy the GW models anymore, playing KoW would get very hard!

I started with GW models in KoW, then used historical Greeks for an army, then some Mantic models (love the Orc models), and have now made two new armies, one using Gamezone Dark Elves and Mierce Kthones Gorgonares (as a more fantasy Thulsa Doom/Cult of Set army) and another using Red Box Games Helsvakt and Mierce Fomoraic. So, it's kind of, use whatever models you like!

Gamezone stuff is very, very nice, but very, very spendy!

 Polonius wrote:
Gamezone stuff is very, very nice, but very, very spendy!

Built using the new cheap plastic/resin/whatever Dark Elves! Here's a post back when I got them - http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/60/569616.page#6443518

Is there a vikingy faction? Would normal humans work, or are they more like WFB Empire? Was looking around the site and didn't see anything that looks like it would match. I was planning to use my Blood Rage minis to start a viking themed wfb army, rather than GW's marauders.

Ronnie plans on a Norse faction in future.