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 Necros wrote:
There's tons of companies making cheap square bases out there, I recommend Proxie models since base sizes don't matter in AoS, you can just use square ones instead

I actually just started basing the winged Sigmarines which I snagged early on 50x50mm bases and they really will make a stunning unit of Elohi. Likewise I will do the Sigmarine Captain on Dracogryph as a Paladin Commander on Gryphon... and since he's a "Hero/Monster" I can steal a slightly larger base as per the KoW 2nd rules... which is good, because he is a big boy. :-p

Any suggestions for what I turn the Chaos half of the box into? I'm thinking the big bony brute might end up a Greater Obsidian Golem?

 Necros wrote:
Is there a vikingy faction? Would normal humans work, or are they more like WFB Empire? Was looking around the site and didn't see anything that looks like it would match. I was planning to use my Blood Rage minis to start a viking themed wfb army, rather than GW's marauders.

As mentioned, a norse themed army is coming, but not any time soon. However, the Kingdoms of Men list was designed to be generic so any current viking/norse models could be used with it. Hell, there's a guy on the foums who created a KoM army using napoleonic models, and they look awesome and are tournament legal.

Cool, I'll check it out once the rules come out. Was just thinking worst case I could probably use the orc rules for them too

 Necros wrote:
Is there a vikingy faction? Would normal humans work, or are they more like WFB Empire? Was looking around the site and didn't see anything that looks like it would match. I was planning to use my Blood Rage minis to start a viking themed wfb army, rather than GW's marauders.

Gripping Beast and Wargames Factory make nice inexpensive plastic Vikings. Red Box Games has a nice Viking range in metal an right now you could get a nice Viking warbands from the Mierce Metal Age kickstarter. Some of those would probably fit nicely with the Blood Rage minis and all would be acceptable for KoW play.

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:

 Necros wrote:
There's tons of companies making cheap square bases out there, I recommend Proxie models since base sizes don't matter in AoS, you can just use square ones instead

I actually just started basing the winged Sigmarines which I snagged early on 50x50mm bases and they really will make a stunning unit of Elohi. Likewise I will do the Sigmarine Captain on Dracogryph as a Paladin Commander on Gryphon... and since he's a "Hero/Monster" I can steal a slightly larger base as per the KoW 2nd rules... which is good, because he is a big boy. :-p

Any suggestions for what I turn the Chaos half of the box into? I'm thinking the big bony brute might end up a Greater Obsidian Golem?

I was thinking of doubling up my Sigmarites between AoS and KoW as Ogres (especially with the archers that are coming) with the allied Elohi for the flying guys.

For the Marauders I'd consider Orcs (about the right size) or what for some of the cross over lists.

Prestor Jon wrote:

 Necros wrote:
Is there a vikingy faction? Would normal humans work, or are they more like WFB Empire? Was looking around the site and didn't see anything that looks like it would match. I was planning to use my Blood Rage minis to start a viking themed wfb army, rather than GW's marauders.

Gripping Beast and Wargames Factory make nice inexpensive plastic Vikings. Red Box Games has a nice Viking range in metal an right now you could get a nice Viking warbands from the Mierce Metal Age kickstarter. Some of those would probably fit nicely with the Blood Rage minis and all would be acceptable for KoW play.

i recommend the Gripping Beast models over the Wargames factory ones since they have more realistic poses and you can build an actual shield wall. But the Wargames Factory kit can help you customize your Gripping Beast kit.

In Kingdoms of Men there are Shiedwall units. I would guess that would be your core unit for your Viking faction. Dwarven Berserkers can also be used as Allies, and no one forces you to use dwarves for models!

“Well done especially to its creator and designer Alessio Cavatore. I have worked together with Alessio on many gaming projects over the years, both historical and fantasy, and have always appreciated his clear and focussed approach to game design, instinct for uncluttered rules, and – most of all – boundless and unquenchable enthusiasm for games and gaming.”

Like hell he does.

 AlexHolker wrote:

“Well done especially to its creator and designer Alessio Cavatore. I have worked together with Alessio on many gaming projects over the years, both historical and fantasy, and have always appreciated his clear and focussed approach to game design, instinct for uncluttered rules, and – most of all – boundless and unquenchable enthusiasm for games and gaming.”

Like hell he does.

He absolutely does; the holy triumvirate of Alessio's brilliance in elegant and uncluttered game design currently consists of Terminator Genisys, Kings of War, and Bolt Action; with honorable mention to Lord of the Rings Strategy Battle Game.

Warhammer 6th was also excellent compared to the mess that was 5th.

 scarletsquig wrote:
Warhammer 6th was also excellent compared to the mess that was 5th.

Tuomas Pirinen was the one who rewrote Warhammer Fantasy from the Herohammer of 4/5th edition of the 1990's and crafted Warhammer 6th for 2000. Alessio was responsible for 7th edition in 2006, which fixed a few of the minor problems from 6th, and was overall a better core system. (the 7th edition army books, on the other hand, were garbage). Warhammer 7th + 6th edition army books = the best version of Warhammer Fantasy Battles.

I've heard it said Alessio is the guy you want writing your 1st edition rules, but not your 2nd edition.

ie he's really good at creating new rule sets, but can't come back and rebalance them for gak

Yeah - no one is perfect!

After all, I'm pretty sure Alessio is responsible for some of the more ridiculous Skaven abilities from a few editions back (Ratling Guns (?) and Warplock Engineers and that hideous bound spell of theirs!) that made for some of the worst games of WFB I've ever played!

Interesting to hear that he's great at 1E and not so great at 2E+!

 Alpharius wrote:
Yeah - no one is perfect!

After all, I'm pretty sure Alessio is responsible for some of the more ridiculous Skaven abilities from a few editions back (Ratling Guns (?) and Warplock Engineers and that hideous bound spell of theirs!) that made for some of the worst games of WFB I've ever played!

Interesting to hear that he's great at 1E and not so great at 2E+!

His problem, allegedly, is that he is completely unable to take criticism, constructive or otherwise, and doesn't work well with others - and rebalancing a rule set and armies for a 2nd edition and new armies has to be a collaborative effort built on feedback.

 NTRabbit wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:
Yeah - no one is perfect!

After all, I'm pretty sure Alessio is responsible for some of the more ridiculous Skaven abilities from a few editions back (Ratling Guns (?) and Warplock Engineers and that hideous bound spell of theirs!) that made for some of the worst games of WFB I've ever played!

Interesting to hear that he's great at 1E and not so great at 2E+!

His problem, allegedly, is that he is completely unable to take criticism, constructive or otherwise, and doesn't work well with others - and rebalancing a rule set and armies for a 2nd edition and new armies has to be a collaborative effort built on feedback.

I've heard the difficulties of getting the KoW2e through, but he's been pretty great about Bolt Action.
Alessio left GW shortly before Warhammer 8th edition came out and has been on a roll since then. To be fair, the Skaven Army book with the SAD came out thirteen years ago... I also produced some crap thirteen years ago too!
He did just release Terminator Genisys the Miniatures Game which is a masterpiece in rules elegance.

For anyone new to KoW, a new players's guide ha been posted up on the Mantic blog:

http://manticblog.com/2015/07/07/kings-of-war-new-players-guide/

Interest in the game has exploded in the last few days, the KoW facebook groups have tripled in membership size. Mantic are definitely in the right place at the right time currently.

Makes me think of that old Monopoly card. "Game killed in your favor, collect $200,000."

Let's hope they use this renewed vigor to update their model range to look decent.

 primalexile wrote:
Let's hope they use this renewed vigor to update their model range to look decent.

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:

Mantic has knowingly admitted that their Kickstarter model gave them a huge chance to grow, and well... kick-start games like KoW into full lines, but know that their deals, and thrice open Pledge-Managers, etc... were making them persona-non-grata at friendly game shops. Everyone knew to buy in HARD during Pledge-Managers as products would never be that cheap again.

So now Mantic has made the super difficult decision to stop re-opening the Pledge Manager, concurrent with their decision to send out Organized Play Kits, etc... to really support the retail shops, and hopefully build the community on that end, hold tournaments, etc.

Their sin was not always communicating this well, but I do "get" it. The other half of the dilemma is that their models have progressed in quality quickly, but not quickly enough to utterly shed their "Mantic: Almost" reputation, and as such a ton of people were really waiting to see models, and thus went light on the Pledge Manager, expecting it to re-open.

This is where I sit. Though to be quite honest and blunt, I won't buy Mantic models at retail since their KS model (and way too many crap models) have devalued their product that I see them as almost worthless as individual models. After feeling burnt too many times by too many bad models (tm) I wasn't going to take a risk on the Succubi or Salamanders, and now it turns out I would have liked some of them. I don't need any more models, though - so unless someone happens to be selling them off cheap I'll simply never buy either of them (and probably buy 2nd-hand GW instead for my fantasy fix). I might pick up the rulebooks if any of my free-shipping UK places end up stocking them.

So yeah, I'm bitter. If they had better than gak-all communication skills I'd have either bought in big during the PM or sucked it up and taken it on the chin. Then again, they still haven't shipped the stuff that really should have gone out months ago, and as we've seen with Trolls and Men at Arms, they're not above a bait-and-switch or simply changing their minds and not living up to their promises anyway.

KoW is a damn good ruleset and certainly well done to Alessio for V1, but I think the RC deserves more of the credit for V2. With AC doing the historical lists by himself, I'm a bit concerned that they'll end up a clusterfeth like the Abyssal V2 list was initially. (Before Ronnie let the RC take the reigns on the list.)

 Azazelx wrote:

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:

Mantic has knowingly admitted that their Kickstarter model gave them a huge chance to grow, and well... kick-start games like KoW into full lines, but know that their deals, and thrice open Pledge-Managers, etc... were making them persona-non-grata at friendly game shops. Everyone knew to buy in HARD during Pledge-Managers as products would never be that cheap again.

So now Mantic has made the super difficult decision to stop re-opening the Pledge Manager, concurrent with their decision to send out Organized Play Kits, etc... to really support the retail shops, and hopefully build the community on that end, hold tournaments, etc.

Their sin was not always communicating this well, but I do "get" it. The other half of the dilemma is that their models have progressed in quality quickly, but not quickly enough to utterly shed their "Mantic: Almost" reputation, and as such a ton of people were really waiting to see models, and thus went light on the Pledge Manager, expecting it to re-open.

This is where I sit. Though to be quite honest and blunt, I won't buy Mantic models at retail since their KS model (and way too many crap models) have devalued their product that I see them as almost worthless as individual models. After feeling burnt too many times by too many bad models (tm) I wasn't going to take a risk on the Succubi or Salamanders, and now it turns out I would have liked some of them. I don't need any more models, though - so unless someone happens to be selling them off cheap I'll simply never buy either of them (and probably buy 2nd-hand GW instead for my fantasy fix). I might pick up the rulebooks if any of my free-shipping UK places end up stocking them.

So yeah, I'm bitter. If they had better than gak-all communication skills I'd have either bought in big during the PM or sucked it up and taken it on the chin. Then again, they still haven't shipped the stuff that really should have gone out months ago, and as we've seen with Trolls and Men at Arms, they're not above a bait-and-switch or simply changing their minds and not living up to their promises anyway.

KoW is a damn good ruleset and certainly well done to Alessio for V1, but I think the RC deserves more of the credit for V2. With AC doing the historical lists by himself, I'm a bit concerned that they'll end up a clusterfeth like the Abyssal V2 list was initially. (Before Ronnie let the RC take the reigns on the list.)

What should they have shipped out months ago?

I think Alessio now wants us to do the points values for the historical lists.

They originally said they would ship out existing product right after the PM closed, but never did.

Edit: Just saw in the comments that Mantic is now claiming Ronaldo the Bard isn't part of any pledge, just an add on, despite an update saying he is included in pledges of Living Legend ($50) and above.

Mantic, get your gak together, you're a great bunch of guys but I'm tired of this constant changing of your mind after you have our money...

Mantic unveils their new statue:

Photoshop right? I don't quite get where they're going with that though, GW's statue was kind of neat although not what I'm after.

Looking forward to that rules PDF on Friday

I saw their new statue on FB today, I like the sense of humor of this company. Every company needs a gold fantasy Sigmarine in their parking lot.

 RiTides wrote:
Photoshop right? I don't quite get where they're going with that though

I believe the word you are looking for is parody.

DKH/DS looks mint, but only 26 minis? Is that enough for a proper dungeon crawl?! I suppose they 're spawn' though?!

 Alex C wrote:
They originally said they would ship out existing product right after the PM closed, but never did.

Yeah, I bought a lot of stuff hoping it was going to ship in the spring. Oh well, I like having a couple hundred bucks tied up in an army I'll get eventually.

 Daedleh wrote:
I think Alessio now wants us to do the points values for the historical lists.

 Alex C wrote:
They originally said they would ship out existing product right after the PM closed, but never did.
Edit: Just saw in the comments that Mantic is now claiming Ronaldo the Bard isn't part of any pledge, just an add on, despite an update saying he is included in pledges of Living Legend ($50) and above.
Mantic, get your gak together, you're a great bunch of guys but I'm tired of this constant changing of your mind after you have our money...

Oh, for feth's sake. That's typical Mantic. Thank goodness the KoW rules are free. I can cobble together a good working version of 40k myself later on.

 Daedleh wrote:
I think Alessio now wants us to do the points values for the historical lists.

Do you know what periods you'll be covering?