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Wow $85 crazy box. The stupid part muf my brain wants one because I know there's a looot of crap in box at that price, better than 3 regulars, like a discounted 4 regular boxen. Probably has battle zones and some of the chunkier stuff out lately. But the part if my brain that knows I already have too many minis knows that a lot of it will be restic and other portions will be duplicates I dint need . Guess that's a pass, there's that KS coming up too besides.

overtyrant wrote:
I come here for the rumours then leave because of the bickering, surely this 'discussion' is not the best place in a N&R thread.

If ManticStew is reading this thread, then it can only help drive home the need for some quality control in Mantic's art department.

 Azazelx wrote:

 judgedoug wrote:

 warboss wrote:
Were you a financial backer

No, but I take it I'm the only one who understands development processes.

Not sure why you keep defending Mantic

My defense is not specific to Mantic but is blanket of the process - once again, I understand that when I pledge for a Kickstarter there is as much as a 100% chance I will not get what I pledged for. I can choose to pretend that is not the case, and then wait for a retail release.
If you want to see me savage Mantic for something that is actually worth savaging them for, see my posts re the $20 Dungeon Saga boxes in the Mantic subforum.

There are some things that "it's a Kickstarter" aren't a defence for.

Poor sculpts is one of them.

 infinite_array wrote:

 scarletsquig wrote:
^ That's the point. That *is* the official concept art for that model, the one in the photo.

Isn't the official concept art this:

Found it on the Mantic blog back in July.

The difference is the head and shoulder pads, as it's a (semi) modular kit with the same core model (legs, torso, arms) as the base. KS backers got both sets of "peripheral" parts, such as heads. So the arms legs and torso and their proportions are the same for both models.

As has already been discussed.


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 NTRabbit wrote:

Now you're just letting facts get in the way of a good hissy fit

Nice attempted dodge and ad hominem, but it just makes you look all the more foolish.

And this is the thing that's displaying your own lack of maturity here. you've stated things, and even gone so far as to call my opinions "wrong". I've taken the time to disprove your statements with evidence and write a reasoned reply to them - and now your reponse is simply drop an ad hominem and attempt to redirect. That's pissweak.

Just because it's the internet doesn't mean that a reasonable debate or discussion cannot happen, nor that people can't apologise or state that they were wrong. Well, at least for those of us who are more mature than yourself.


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 judgedoug wrote:

My defense is not specific to Mantic but is blanket of the process - once again, I understand that when I pledge for a Kickstarter there is as much as a 100% chance I will not get what I pledged for. I can choose to pretend that is not the case, and then wait for a retail release.
If you want to see me savage Mantic for something that is actually worth savaging them for, see my posts re the $20 Dungeon Saga boxes in the Mantic subforum.

Defending them gets neither them or us anywhere. Warranted criticism is the only thing that is likely to make them step up their game. Silent acceptance of failings does nothing positive for the process. Mantic are far from first-timers at all this, and I think at least most of us here want them to succeed and lift their game.

As I've said, I didn't buy the golem, and the reason why is the fact that I don't trust Mantic to translate a model like that from concept to model with accuracy - or indeed buy anything in a KS that's not already rendered. It doesn't mean that the model(s) can't be criticised in a fair manner, despite what the mindless fanbois seem to think.

Good old Mantic. The forums still down, still can't register a shipping address in my country.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Good old Mantic. The forums still down, still can't register a shipping address in my country.

Forums aren't dead, just it's a pain to access them again. You need to delete cookies / history etc. Even then some people still have problems by trying to connect, as it's defaulting their connection to https, when only http works. It fething sucks that it happened, but there are workarounds. (Quite a few people have been tearing their hair out to gain access).

On the plus side, the new forum is one hell of a lot faster than the old one.

Joyboozer wrote:
You don't see any difference in those legs compared to the concept?

Very little. The arms look 2-3x the size of the legs in both the concept art and the picture, so Check. Aside from the recessed torso on the model I received, it is a very near match to the concept art for the GEE.

It's more about girth! Those legs in the concept, while short, look solid enough to support the weight of that massive body, the ones on the actual mini look like they are too thin.

Sorry to see that the detail is lacking the texture is boring and the proportions are all kinds of amateur. It looks more toyish than my kids skylanders
And the concept art is quite different proportions wise.
Another KoW sculpting fail on this one and something that Mantic does not seem to care about to be honest. They have been in business for some years now with little to no improvements.
I can only hope they address this problem in the future.

 Azazelx wrote:
Defending them gets neither them or us anywhere. Warranted criticism is the only thing that is likely to make them step up their game. Silent acceptance of failings does nothing positive for the process. Mantic are far from first-timers at all this, and I think at least most of us here want them to succeed and lift their game.

As I've said, I didn't buy the golem, and the reason why is the fact that I don't trust Mantic to translate a model like that from concept to model with accuracy - or indeed buy anything in a KS that's not already rendered. It doesn't mean that the model(s) can't be criticised in a fair manner, despite what the mindless fanbois seem to think.

This really does need to be emphasized since as the maxim goes: The bad customer is not the one that complains; the bad customer is the one that leaves without complaining for they have denied the company a chance to improve.

No company is perfect, but a company needs to know what their failings are from the market they are selling to. They WANT people to buy their products, and if they are losing sales to people who are otherwise interested in the hobby then they need to know why. From there they can choose to address the issue or not. However, having a discussion allows them to see if the issue is a super-hyper-focused complaint that loses them one particularly demanding customer of a more general complaint that's costing them in a broader market.

In the spirit of that discussion, I too dislike the legs of the golem. Most of the other parts are okay...ish, but those stand out as being ridiculous. It could be in the flesh the model isn't as bad due to the common angle of view (noticeably missing from the article, and even the shots of the GOG in the store don't show that angle particularly well). It could also be that the goal from Mantic was to adhere to a certain footprint which seems supported by how it barely fits into the base, but I'm not sure even that would excuse bad proportioning to that level. Thus, I'm not particularly likely to have an interest in viewing the model in the flesh to see if there's some redeeming aesthetic options because it's first impression is really that bad. Presentation in a visual medium...it kind of matters to sales.

To Mantic's credit, there wouldn't be a ton of hand-wringing if I went out and bought any of the other far more personally-appealing models to use from other manufacturers. At some point though Mantic's going to find that while doing the full reverse-GW sounds good on paper, being a "games company, not a model company" probably isn't going to pay the bills as well.

Which isn't the place in a news and rumour thread. Go over to FB, their forum or the mantic general thread and discuss it there.

If you feel a discussion has veered off-topic, there's a little yellow triangle on every post you can use and the people who are actually in charge of policing the forums can take things from there. In the meantime, I'll continue to discuss my opinions on the news and rumors related to Mantic's fantasy line here. Given that current and future Mantic employees as well as rules committee members post here, it's a perfectly viable way to communicate initial opinions to the company.

Interlude aside, has anyone gotten the plastic naiads in their hands yet? The foray into the GEE reminded me I wanted to see how those turned out but I'm having no luck on finding images of the final models.

I've not seen anybody talking about them although they might have started going out as part of wave 2, we've seen sprue shots though

Those look cool might pick some up for pulp or maybe to use as Rangifer even.

Theres also a painted picture of them in the main rulebook. Somewhere in the FoN armylist. (and Id be surprised if there werent any pictures of them in uncharted empires... theyre what the trident realms list is all about, after all)

My Naiads have arrived as part of wave two. They look good on the sprue but I'm a little disappointed that there isn't enough hand to hand weapons to fully complete a unit, as there's only 4 per 5 man sprue?

it looks like there's two tridents, two double bladed poleweapons, and a... sword type thing? For the leader presumably? Its a bit sparse for sure but I think if you use that you're covered.

 GrimDork wrote:
it looks like there's two tridents, two double bladed poleweapons, and a... sword type thing? For the leader presumably? Its a bit sparse for sure but I think if you use that you're covered.

Yeah, that's what I count as well, but it does seem a bit strange that there'd be no real consistency in armament for melee with 20% being armed with a sword and the rest with long-reach weapons.

Is this another "we helpfully clipped the parts off the other sprue so it'd fit in the box" deal with the bodies similar to the Forge Fathers? Or is there another sprue not pictured with the heads, banner pole and maybe other weapons? I don't see the heads nor the arm for the banner, but it wouldn't be the first time I was blind.

Thanks for the picture Orlando!

 Krinsath wrote:

 GrimDork wrote:
it looks like there's two tridents, two double bladed poleweapons, and a... sword type thing? For the leader presumably? Its a bit sparse for sure but I think if you use that you're covered.

Yeah, that's what I count as well, but it does seem a bit strange that there'd be no real consistency in armament for melee with 20% being armed with a sword and the rest with long-reach weapons.

Is this another "we helpfully clipped the parts off the other sprue so it'd fit in the box" deal with the bodies similar to the Forge Fathers? Or is there another sprue not pictured with the heads, banner pole and maybe other weapons? I don't see the heads nor the arm for the banner, but it wouldn't be the first time I was blind.

Thanks for the picture Orlando!

The heads are along the top, they're side-on with long hair, 6 for sure, then another 3 I can't tell from this far away. The banner is the big wavy thing with the scary face motif bottom right, above one of the double bladed pole weapons. If I was to hazard a guess, I would say the arm at right angles underneath the sword is the arm meant to connect to the back of the banner, which looks like it has the pole and hand already part of the mould - you can see just the tip poking out.

I rather like the look of those naiads. I like the strangeness of the Trident Realms as it is.

It looks like it would be pretty easy to alter the spearguns into some kind of laser guns to make a sci fi force.

 Tamereth wrote:
My Naiads have arrived as part of wave two. They look good on the sprue but I'm a little disappointed that there isn't enough hand to hand weapons to fully complete a unit, as there's only 4 per 5 man sprue?

I think that they will work best if you use them to make equal numbers of missile and melee troops - so the spear guns from the melee troops can be used with the missile troops, and the melee weapons from the missile troops can be used for the melee troops.

But, yeah, kind of a strange choice. I would have preferred seeing more tridents and fewer... whatever the heck those are.

I am thinking about giving some of the trident wielders nets, to serve as retiari in an arena game.

The Auld Grump - the weapons in the arena really were chosen as cool over function....

There are nets on the sprue just for that, they're bunched up in the opposite hands, arms in the top right corner

 NTRabbit wrote:
There are nets on the sprue just for that, they're bunched up in the opposite hands, arms in the top right corner

Ah, is that what those are?

I always pictured the nets for retiari as being more open - bunched up like that they would more likely go 'thump' when it hits the target than actually ensnare the enemy.

The Auld Grump

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Good old Mantic. The forums still down, still can't register a shipping address in my country.

Methinks you should not blame Mantic for your ISP not doing it's job in refreshing their DNS resolver cache.


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 GrimDork wrote:
it looks like there's two tridents, two double bladed poleweapons, and a... sword type thing? For the leader presumably? Its a bit sparse for sure but I think if you use that you're covered.

And also nets?

The nets that go in off hands? I think the sentiment being that more pole weapons were preferred. I dunno if I'd be comfortable with some of my naiads just having nets. And it still only makes 5 sets so you *have* to use a sword per five which maybe breaks the look for rank and file.

It's not like you can't make five cc niads per sprue, but there isn't much choice in what you give them. That's all. If you get two sets and split the bits between them, you can make more coherent squads.

Looking forward to getting my batch of 20, probably assemble them half and half to make up for any potential weapon shortages.

 GrimDork wrote:
The nets that go in off hands? I think the sentiment being that more pole weapons were preferred. I dunno if I'd be comfortable with some of my naiads just having nets. And it still only makes 5 sets so you *have* to use a sword per five which maybe breaks the look for rank and file.

It's not like you can't make five cc niads per sprue, but there isn't much choice in what you give them. That's all. If you get two sets and split the bits between them, you can make more coherent squads.

Looking forward to getting my batch of 20, probably assemble them half and half to make up for any potential weapon shortages.

Ah, gotcha. Well, definitely not a GW style Stormcast Eternals set (where everyone can be equipped with everything). But honestly a smart move if the goal is to keep costs down, because 'building big armies" and all that. So the guys you make as laser crossbows or whatever will have extra tridents.

Yeah I mean the deficiencies only show up on the individual sprue level, or if you only want to make one type of Naiad for *all* of your sprues. All of them. I haven't read their rules so I dunno if that would ever be the case (sometimes the missile variant of a unit sucks or you'd never use the non shooting version, but I assume this is rare/nonexistent mostly), but I doubt it'll be a big thing.

As you say, keeping costs down has kind of been the motto for awhile, and I think 10 of each made from 4 sprues will look pretty neat.

Well, we're getting shortchanged on the Forge Fathers sprues too, aren't we? It's just one of those things Mantic does.