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 Piston Honda wrote:

 IdentifyZero wrote:

 AegisGrimm wrote:
I agree that the rules need work. But I'm willing to work with it. Look how soon there was a FAQ and Errata for 40K 6th edition put up (only a couple of days?), and GW has been putting out a variation of the same ruleset for nearly 30 freaking years, while this is the first print iteration of SedWars!!!

Also: People, especially those on BGG, need to stop being butt-hurt about not getting the rules for SedWars before the product. We get it, you think that was something wrong. It's been six months of the same broken record!

The rules look like they were put together in a few hours without being looked over, revised or play tested. In other words, it feels like these were a draft, the very first one.

That's part of the problem.

I have the original beta rules from 2 or so years ago.

Somewhere between beta and the released rules someone fahked up.

Beta rules weren't too shabby, needed some better placement but they were not a mess.

I hope CMON throws in a new copy of the rules in AoS.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 AegisGrimm wrote:


Also: People, especially those on BGG, need to stop being butt-hurt about not getting the rules for SedWars before the product. We get it, you think that was something wrong. It's been six months of the same broken record!

Once again, it's BGG. Some of the posters on that site should be embarrassed of themselves.

I agree with that, back when I first ordered my vanguard troopers, kara etc.. Mike sent me a copy of the beta rules. Those rules and these are nothing alike. With that said.

#1. Great quality packaging.

#2. The tiles, I don't see what the complaint is. They seem to be the standard thickness for every other game I own.

#3. The miniatures are pretty good with some primer on them. I do prefer the original Vanguard sculpts though (I will post a comparison this weekend between some of the resin/metal/plastics).

#4. The rules as I mentioned, they are not to my liking. A big part of the problem is the layout of the rulebook. I think they should have separated it in easier to manage and find segments. Right now, rules are all over the place. In order to demo this to my friends, I will have to create a quick-start rulebook. For the most part, I hope they send us a revised rulebook in wave 2.

#5. The contents of the miniature bags. I have no idea what they were thinking. Everything is mixed up all over the place. This seems to have been an oversight or perhaps a rush to get the boxes packed up.

#6. Assembly. For a miniatures game, it's fairly easy (the lack of basic instructions blew my mind but it's easy to figure out). As a board game? This is unacceptable. They may want to look at Dust Tactics as an example of a Board/Miniatures game for a good example. I think Dust excelled.

#7. Value. It's a great value. A metal vanguard soldier on Studio McVey is almost $10 for one. The miniatures in the biohazard are closer to $1 each. When you compare the quality of the two, there is not a huge gap. For example, $1 for this plastic Kara in comparison to $10 for my metal Kara. If given the choice, I'd take the version in this box set and have $9 in my pocket.

Sedition Wars: Battle for Alabaster is great value for the money you are paying. The biggest snag in this game are the rules and they can be overcome with FAQs or House Rules. My only other complaint with this game would be the fact that there is very little actual lore about the Universe in place. A few more pages of background could have helped further invest people into the setting and game.

I know many people on this website plan to use the miniatures for other games (Imperial Guard armies being the most common), when you consider the value inherent there and re-usability of the miniature it makes it a solid purchase for wargamers.

At the end of the day, I'm happy I got it.

Got my stuff. Too tired from work today to open them up and do a full inspection, but one of my resin Karas will need a replacement sword. :(

The patches are pretty dicky to the point of wondering why they bothered.

Turns out I went for triple biohazard, not double. I'm going to need a fair whack of time just to go through the components. Which sucks. I'd have much preferred to be able to assume they're all perfect inside and open them at my leisure over the next few months.

Having the little print which was signed by Mike McVey was actually pretty exciting. Much more than I'd expected - but not surprising given how much of an influence he was (along with Blanche) for many years - from when I started painting in the late 80's and through the 90's.

 scipio.au wrote:
Turns out I went for triple biohazard, not double. I'm going to need a fair whack of time just to go through the components. Which sucks. I'd have much preferred to be able to assume they're all perfect inside and open them at my leisure over the next few months.

Well you'd better withdraw your pledge.



I haven't gone through my stuff yet. I know my resin Kara isn't broken, but I haven't really looked at the minis. Just looked at the tiles and skimmed part of the rulebook.

Still waiting on my copy. I checked the delivery receipt, and it said I had two missed deliveries. Over the Australia day long weekend. Not likely.

Thought it would arrive today, but I think I am sadly mistaken. Hoping it arrives tomorrow.

It´s always nice to hear people complaing how hard it is to clean up miniatures. And very often when I have a look at their tools I can easily see why. They pay hundreds of dollars for their miniatures but can´t be bothered to get some decen´t tools. Sure, they cost some money, but they will last you a lifetime in most cases.

A quality needle file is not that expensive and a new blade just costs cents.

The rules as I mentioned, they are not to my liking. A big part of the problem is the layout of the rulebook. I think they should have separated it in easier to manage and find segments. Right now, rules are all over the place. In order to demo this to my friends, I will have to create a quick-start rulebook. For the most part, I hope they send us a revised rulebook in wave 2.

I find the layout quite fine. Maybe an index is missing, but it is quite logical. Judging from the standard US-rulebooks it might make one mistake: Not repeating the same rules over and over. That´s really something that armericans seem to have a problem with. I have been working on many rulebooks for boardgames and where other language versions just needed the rules written once we needed to repeat them over and over for the american market.

 Duncan_Idaho wrote:
It´s always nice to hear people complaing how hard it is to clean up miniatures. And very often when I have a look at their tools I can easily see why. They pay hundreds of dollars for their miniatures but can´t be bothered to get some decen´t tools. Sure, they cost some money, but they will last you a lifetime in most cases.

A quality needle file is not that expensive and a new blade just costs cents.

The rules as I mentioned, they are not to my liking. A big part of the problem is the layout of the rulebook. I think they should have separated it in easier to manage and find segments. Right now, rules are all over the place. In order to demo this to my friends, I will have to create a quick-start rulebook. For the most part, I hope they send us a revised rulebook in wave 2.

I find the layout quite fine. Maybe an index is missing, but it is quite logical. Judging from the standard US-rulebooks it might make one mistake: Not repeating the same rules over and over. That´s really something that armericans seem to have a problem with. I have been working on many rulebooks for boardgames and where other language versions just needed the rules written once we needed to repeat them over and over for the american market.

You never miss an opportunity to insult as many people as possible, do you?

Well Scipio.AU if you're really heartbroken about that third set, I be more than happy to take it off you

 Duncan_Idaho wrote:
It´s always nice to hear people complaing how hard it is to clean up miniatures. And very often when I have a look at their tools I can easily see why. They pay hundreds of dollars for their miniatures but can´t be bothered to get some decen´t tools. Sure, they cost some money, but they will last you a lifetime in most cases.

A quality needle file is not that expensive and a new blade just costs cents.

The rules as I mentioned, they are not to my liking. A big part of the problem is the layout of the rulebook. I think they should have separated it in easier to manage and find segments. Right now, rules are all over the place. In order to demo this to my friends, I will have to create a quick-start rulebook. For the most part, I hope they send us a revised rulebook in wave 2.

I find the layout quite fine. Maybe an index is missing, but it is quite logical. Judging from the standard US-rulebooks it might make one mistake: Not repeating the same rules over and over. That´s really something that armericans seem to have a problem with. I have been working on many rulebooks for boardgames and where other language versions just needed the rules written once we needed to repeat them over and over for the american market.

Hahahaha. Whatever helps you sleep at night Duncan. No matter what anyone says on these boards in complaint, you have an insulting counter-point that is based on ignorance to throw back at them.

I guess you may find the lack of a layout fine if you have no experience with layouts.

Then again, your job is translating rules for companies. Not writing them. I am sure there are many of us here in this topic with actual contributions made to game systems, whether as writers or developers; I would go as far as to say multiple people in this topic likely have published articles as well.

I suppose because we're from North America (And therefore, this makes us US) we have no clue what we are talking about and are wholly ignorant in comparison to your very liberal and refreshing worldview.

Thanks for coming out bud.

P.S. What are 'armericans'. Are these some type of Armenian/American hybrid?

I got my set in a week or two ago and can't decide if I want to use it, or resell it. While the models/kit I got all seemed quite nice, I'm realizing that I ordered this so long ago that I've moved onto new projects, and have an enormous amount of sealed product sitting around already.

Decisions, decisions!

@IZ

Well, at least the rest of the world are not the ones that have 2 pages of instructions going with 10 pages of warnings (e.g. hot coffee might be hot).

And please read the whole text:

>>>>
André Winter
L'Art Noir - Game Design and Translation Studio
>>>>

The post above was just an observation (we really got a lot of complaints when we released rules in the US that were mighty fine for the folks in the UK).
And before some complain that I have no experience with life in the US. I have been living for quite some time in Texas. It was not only me that had problems, also my american colleagues sometimes just wanted to strangle certain persons. If they would have given in, we would have had the police in our house for murder investigation nearly every day. I have never experienced anything similar in the rest of the world. I am not saying that there are no nice and intelligent americans, but they were fewer than elsewhere.

@boards

I got three full sets.

Mine arrived slightly damaged, but will be replaced soon. Boards in the add-on package were quite fine and the damaged ones were all damged in the same places so it was probably a machine defect that caused the damage. QC should have noticed it, but as long as I get my replacement I will not complain.

Else everything is fine.

While I agree that Duncan may be the largest tool in the shed, I think he has a point regarding proper tools. I honestly didn't find the clean up of the SW minis to be that cumbersome. A sharp blade and a file worked just fine, and the mould lines were better than most miniatures, aside from some Spanish and French metal lines (every Tales of War mini I've ever gotten has been impeccable.

But lets not kid ourselves, Zero. All of us on this side of the pond are painfully aware of the opinions some of our European brethren hold of us. It is what it is.

 Duncan_Idaho wrote:


The post above was just an observation (we really got a lot of complaints when we released rules in the US that were mighty fine for the folks in the UK).
And before some complain that I have no experience with life in the US. I have been living for quite some time in Texas. It was not only me that had problems, also my american colleagues sometimes just wanted to strangle certain persons. If they would have given in, we would have had the police in our house for murder investigation nearly every day. I have never experienced anything similar in the rest of the world. I am not saying that there are no nice and intelligent americans, but they were fewer than elsewhere.

Unbelievable, really.

I've no idea why you feel the need to continually act in such a condescending and insulting manner - what's the point?

I would have written the same if I would have experienced it in Europe to the same degree. But I do have not. Also not in Asia or Africa. Never been to South America, though.
And I am not a fan of political correctness since to me it is just another word for lying.

And as written before, there are quite many Americans that agreed with me. Heck, some of the strange americans even hold high offices. We do have our share of crackheads over here, too, don´t be fooled.

Cleanup is a matter of proper tools, and getting used to pvc.
Polystyrene behaves differently than metal and both differ from the various kinds of resin substantially. We all take the time to learn to work with those - it's not too much to ask to do that with PVC as well.

As to the rules well, either way works, really.
I do like having all the rules for a 'thing' on the same page - easier for casual use.
...which is what I like to buy other rulesets for, sometimes.(you'd think someone like Duncan would like to cater to that market?)
And yes, that means some repetition.
Feth it, paper is cheap.

I also like rulesets that don't back up on themselves - if they've been written crisply, logically, cleanly and most of all: have a good index. None of that really goes for the SW rulebook as it stands.

I guess perhaps UK buyers will put up with Duncan's, judging by his prose here of late, byzantine and unpleasant rules translations more than US buyers will?
That doesn't mean it's well-written, though.

 cincydooley wrote:
While I agree that Duncan may be the largest tool in the shed, I think he has a point regarding proper tools. I honestly didn't find the clean up of the SW minis to be that cumbersome. A sharp blade and a file worked just fine, and the mould lines were better than most miniatures, aside from some Spanish and French metal lines (every Tales of War mini I've ever gotten has been impeccable.

But lets not kid ourselves, Zero. All of us on this side of the pond are painfully aware of the opinions some of our European brethren hold of us. It is what it is.

Well said and I agree, the miniatures are easy to clean up. A sharp knife, a file and cutters has done the trick for me. Assembled roughly 60 models so far! Very few issues.

Hmm, slightly OT perhaps but I've heard scores of folks mentioning files that work on this stuff now - mine don't. At all.
What files exactly are you guys using? (specific brand/ebay link with reasonable intl. shipping would be doubly awesome!).

I get by with a knife and clippers but anything to get those mold lines off of 150+ models quicker would be much appreciated

I have files I picked up from GF9 a few years ago and they don't work on these models. They just shred them.

At this point the issue for me has been the warping. Other then the basic strain models and a few of the Vanguard I've had to hot water dunk everything so far.

The rule book is not great. Here's a quick test question :
Who goes first?

winterdyne wrote:
The rule book is not great. Here's a quick test question :
Who goes first?

I am playing it the same as nuclear chess.... you wouldn't DARE go first.

Well done Duncan. Continuing to berate and insult the consumer while endlessly sucking up to producers. I'd say something equally classy about Germans, except, well, I don't hold them in contempt.

You do like to go on about your game design credentials, though. What have you actually worked on, because I've looked and haven't been able to find a thing.

 Bolognesus wrote:
Hmm, slightly OT perhaps but I've heard scores of folks mentioning files that work on this stuff now - mine don't. At all.
What files exactly are you guys using? (specific brand/ebay link with reasonable intl. shipping would be doubly awesome!).

I get by with a knife and clippers but anything to get those mold lines off of 150+ models quicker would be much appreciated

I picked up a 3 pack of files from Home Depot. They cost me $10. Home Depot brand? xD

So I was getting pissed that I had not gotten my box yet. A friend of mine got his 2 weeks ago.

Last Sat I went back into CKPM to verify my info was submitted only to find out that I hadn't finished submitting my data. It had everything filled out, I just didn't hit the little green button on the bottom...

Now I have no idea when it's going to arrive. How stupid/pissed am I?

Shawn G. (SoI)

 Soul of Iron wrote:
So I was getting pissed that I had not gotten my box yet. A friend of mine got his 2 weeks ago.

Last Sat I went back into CKPM to verify my info was submitted only to find out that I hadn't finished submitting my data. It had everything filled out, I just didn't hit the little green button on the bottom...

Now I have no idea when it's going to arrive. How stupid/pissed am I?

Shawn G. (SoI)

Well Shawn you're more than able to buy my biohazard if you truly can't wait! Muwahahhaaha

I'm only partially joking..

@IdentityZero Hmm, no chance of getting those down here. Well, a knife will work for now

@Soul of Iron I believe your package will be shipped at the end of the queue then - no huge delays that they announced (but then again, it *is* CMoN )

for files .i found metal ones to corse so swiched to a emery board seems to work fine .

Target wrote:

 Soul of Iron wrote:
So I was getting pissed that I had not gotten my box yet. A friend of mine got his 2 weeks ago.

Last Sat I went back into CKPM to verify my info was submitted only to find out that I hadn't finished submitting my data. It had everything filled out, I just didn't hit the little green button on the bottom...

Now I have no idea when it's going to arrive. How stupid/pissed am I?

Shawn G. (SoI)

Well Shawn you're more than able to buy my biohazard if you truly can't wait! Muwahahhaaha

I'm only partially joking..

Strain will make good plague zombies and or DE grotesques/wracks I'm a little at a loss on what I'm going to do with 3 boxes worth of the Vanguard......I'm already converting an entire IG army designed around my Iron Warriors....Oh well, Maybe I'll find another use for them at some point

@files

I use Vallorbe Grobet-Swiss files with a teething of 4 or 6. They go on minis like a hot knife on butter, so you better take care you file not away too much. They cost 14-20€ a file bit will last you a lifetime.

 Hulksmash wrote:

Strain will make good plague zombies and or DE grotesques/wracks I'm a little at a loss on what I'm going to do with 3 boxes worth of the Vanguard......I'm already converting an entire IG army designed around my Iron Warriors....Oh well, Maybe I'll find another use for them at some point

I'm using the strain as plague zombies and the Vanguard in my Grey Knights army to make a henchman warband. Though with three boxes that'll make a hell of a warband.

I bought a set of diamond-coated needle files from Micromark years ago, and they work just fine on restic.

Duncan, Josh, thanks. Will be ordering some of those files