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Scourge wings are huge compared to razorwing flocks, so I'm not sure you could pull that off.
I was wondering about alternatives as I only have 1 razorwing flock and really need some more, but sooo expensive!

Mine will be floating swarms of flying trilobites.

My DE are a Dagon-worshipping cult of nutjobs,,,

Considering taking a horde of beasts/masters...what is the best HQ to pair with them? I know the Baron is good, but I don't run hellions and it seems like somewhat of a waste. Is there any other options?

dafluff wrote:
Considering taking a horde of beasts/masters...what is the best HQ to pair with them? I know the Baron is good, but I don't run hellions and it seems like somewhat of a waste. Is there any other options?

Even without Hellions, the Baron is a bargain (plus Hellions aren't that good to begin with as either Elites or Troops). He actually synergizes pretty well with beast masters, giving them stealth, hit and run, assault and defensive grenades and the ability to assign wounds to specific models with Look Out Sir! Provided you can position him properly, any wound with S5 or lower you can assign to your Razorwing Flock and any high strength hits to your Khymerae. In 6th, his movement of Jump Infantry is similar to their beasts, even though you do not move at the speed of the slowest model anymore. So for his point cost, he is awesome with beasts.

Okay thanks that is helpful! Im new to DE...how does look out sir work? What do you think is the best setup of the beasts in a 1,500 - 2k army?

dafluff wrote:
Okay thanks that is helpful! Im new to DE...how does look out sir work? What do you think is the best setup of the beasts in a 1,500 - 2k army?

3 packs of beastmasters with 4 (2 + 2) Razorwing flocks and 5 Khymera are the basis which You can further update if needed. Cheap beastmasters can be converted out of Hellion box and cheap Razorwing flocks can be made from spare bladevanes, which come in Raider/Ravager/Venom kits.

The hellion conversion is brilliant. The beast master models are so pricey. Thanks you for the advice, very helpful.

You also get to kitbash Your own Baron from remaining bits. Although You can wait for the official and pricey model by GW which is bound to be released later this year.

The cheapest razorwing flock so far looks like this

IIRC it was posted by one of our fellow dakkanauts, but I unfortunately cannot qoute his name since I am unable to find that initial post. I have to admit that I shamelessly stole his idea as soon as I saw it

CainTheHunter wrote:
You also get to kitbash Your own Baron from remaining bits. Although You can wait for the official and pricey model by GW which is bound to be released later this year.

The cheapest razorwing flock so far looks like this
[img]http://lh4.ggpht.com/-U7V0enGOWEE/Tjh0RdTKzeI/AAAAAAAAAek/yj7CIsYlxLs/2011-08-02%2525252021.21.34.png[/img
IIRC it was posted by one of our fellow dakkanauts, but I unfortunately cannot qoute his name since I am unable to find that initial post. I have to admit that I shamelessly stole his idea as soon as I saw it

Pretty sure I've been reading that line since the beginning of time... Face it, we're back to the unwanted pile now, there won't be actual baron model for us... The rumoured release list for next year only has a "grotesque squad"!

For razorwing flock, I've read a poster on here who thought about getting a mass of these:

http://www.reapermini.com/OnlineStore/bat/latest/P03355B

And just stick them on a large base, but it's been a year and I'm not sure if he had posted any photos, so who knows if they look nice or not.

And tbh, even those "conversions" you posted look better than the official models!

dafluff wrote:
Considering taking a horde of beasts/masters...what is the best HQ to pair with them? I know the Baron is good, but I don't run hellions and it seems like somewhat of a waste. Is there any other options?

The baron does not need to be taken with Hellions. He is the only HQ to pair with beastpacks because he is the only one who can keep up with them.

Making hellions troops is arguably the lowest priority reason to take the Baron. You take the baron for his bonus to your deployment roll and because he is an undercosted strength 6 beatstick with a 2++ who allows for hilariously logic-breaking moves like having a khymerae throw a grenade at an enemy unit.

@Lokas : Does he hold his own once in combat? Or is he picked off relatively fast?

Well, he has his 2+ invulnerable save until first failure. He packs out several high strenght attacks when assaulting, but he is also probably the only special character without a power weapon.

Urien and Duke(if you roll 2-4).

dafluff wrote:
@Lokas : Does he hold his own once in combat? Or is he picked off relatively fast?

he has a shadowfield (2++ on his first wound) once that goes he is as good as dead. When he charges he does so at str6 or 7 but in subsiquent rounds he is only str4. He has 4 attacks and no power weapon. So he is no beast, but he is alright for a hundred points with all his special rules

He gives you +1 to your deployment roll off, and he makes beast masters king in 6th edition. I have used him and a large beast master unit and rolled through half of people's armies with just that unit, let alone the rest of the 1850 points worth of DE that stood back in awe as that unit chewed everything my opponent threw at them. Screw hellions, you take the baron because he gives you a death star unit that can rick roll people all day, everyday. The rest of your army is just eye candy to distract your opponent until it is too late for them to figure out what is happening to them. Throw the baron in the front, look out sir to your 4++ khymeras for toughness 6 or above, and look out sir on your razorwing flocks on toughness 5 or less. Use your beast master characters to accept challenges and let the baron add his usually wound you 2's to the rest of the enemy unit. The whole reason you are taking a best master squad is because of the razorwing flocks (rending), everything else there is just a delivery system that is helpful in a tight spot.

Beasts are awesome.
Last game they ate a Black templar terminator squad, managed to grind up a 10 man crusader squad and only failed at the attempt to put down another crusader squad with the emperors champion attached (I knew I couldn't win, but it hindered the opponent to take an objective).

This is what I am using for my Razorwing flocks:
http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/Tyranids/TYRANID-RIPPERS-WITH-WINGS.html
You get 9 in one pack. That's enough for 4 bases with 2-3 each.

I like the unused beast myself.

The Psycho-monkeys are fun to use, especially if you can Look Out Sir to them to build up their attacks before you charge in on a small, tough unit.

Sure, they'll lose most of their wounds, but they hit like a 900 ton mallet


I realise that the Razorwings are the best of the three, and the Khymerae are a better bullet-stop, but there's something about 5 rat-tailed multi-eyed gorillas that freaks opponents out no end, and they've always worked really well for me..

 Ascalam wrote:
I like the unused beast myself.

The Psycho-monkeys are fun to use, especially if you can Look Out Sir to them to build up their attacks before you charge in on a small, tough unit.

Sure, they'll lose most of their wounds, but they hit like a 900 ton mallet


I realise that the Razorwings are the best of the three, and the Khymerae are a better bullet-stop, but there's something about 5 rat-tailed multi-eyed gorillas that freaks opponents out no end, and they've always worked really well for me..

Oh yeah, let the clawed fiend take a couple of look out sir hits for the baron and then have him in your second row for the assault and have him pound on a few dudes heads and add to the would pool with the extra attacks that he gets.

I've actually stopped using the beast masters unit lately just to try out other units and make the game more even instead of me crushing all of my friend's faces and them not wanting to play with me anymore.

Clawed fiends are just a bit overcost for me, razorwings provide more wounds and they got rending, their toughness is useless because it's impossible for them to get majority. I could get S5 attacks from grotesque at cheaper price, they can bring liquifier and/or poisoned weapon with abberation, and I'd be using the T5 majority as well.

I've found that using the Baron for LOS! was a quick way to get him insta killed. Maybe due to poor rolling, but all it took was my opponent asking, "Is that your warlord?", "yes", S6 shots at that guy. It only took 2 shots last game. Passed LOS!, khymera died, Failed LOS!, Failed Shadow field. Bye bye baron. I gave up a secondary objective top of turn 1. My Baron will be running 2nd row from now on, with a nice khymera bubble wrap.

Maybe take a Clawed Fiend to stick wounds on as it doesn't Insta-die from a S6 shot if it fails a save (which it won't get for a lot of S6 shooting anyway).

When it's down to one wound left you start putting the high strength wounds on Khymerae and hope to pass the Invulnerable save and the low strength wounds on the Razorwing flocks.

Failing both LOS! and the Shadowfield is a 1/36 chance, so it takes some pretty unlucky rolling for you to fail.

ThePhish wrote:
I've found that using the Baron for LOS! was a quick way to get him insta killed. Maybe due to poor rolling, but all it took was my opponent asking, "Is that your warlord?", "yes", S6 shots at that guy. It only took 2 shots last game. Passed LOS!, khymera died, Failed LOS!, Failed Shadow field. Bye bye baron. I gave up a secondary objective top of turn 1. My Baron will be running 2nd row from now on, with a nice khymera bubble wrap.

One game? Or every game?

That's just bad luck, really, you rolled 1 twice, on 2 dice.

I'm not making fun of your misfortune, I consistently roll 1 on 1-2 dice as well, most of my early games with my friends, they all thought my archon w/ SF was a joke, because I always fail that 2+ roll on the 1st hit he takes, so I had never managed to get my archon into range to do his crazy CC damage. It's only a recent 5th ed game that they started to see my archon as a threat, as I managed to single-handedly(literally 1 model, his escort-wyches got murdered) took down a full size assault marine squad with a HQ through agoniser, shadowfield and sweeping advance(I dealt some wounds, took none thanks to my SF, then I won combat and swept them away). So don't sweep the Baron LOS tactic under the carpet because of 1 poor rolling experience!

I feel your pain with the double 1 rolling. My worst roll i believe went like this....

Eldrad in a group of wraithguards. A wraithguard went down on the side and exposed eldrad. 1 melta shot from a tac squad was fired in. rolled a 1 for the look out sir. Had a re-rollable 3+ invulnerable and all 3 wounds. Rolled another 1 and then a 2. All 3 wounds went bye bye. It was hilarious. But in a bad way.


Back on topic, I am myself now looking into the beastmaster unit headed by the baron. Looking for cheap ways to model flocks. Loved some of the ideas.

I also found the post stating S5 or less always goes to flocks and S6 or more goes to kymera.

That 1/36 chance to fail LOS and fail your shield hopefully shouldnt happen before that unit gets into combat. They should be in combat on turn 2 should they not?

Don't you do LOS after your saves?

"When a wound (or unsaved wound) is allocated to one of your characters... ...he's allowed a Look Out, Sir! attempt."

 Foo wrote:
Don't you do LOS after your saves?

not with mixed saves, otherwise the whole unit would have a 2++

I am confused by that part as well "or unsaved wound". I dont think this is true, but it makes it seem like you can roll for your 2++ save and then if he fails it, just pass the wound back. Shield would still break because he fails the save but then he wouldnt take the wound for it. so the wound would just automaticly go trough to whoever he LOS to.

Once again, I dont think this is how it works, but I just dont understand that little part or why they would say it.

That's how I interpreted it.

I could see how broken that could be though. Not in this case as the shield would still break and no more 2++ saves. But say there is a 2+ save HQ who whenever he fails his 2+ save just kills off a member of his unit on a 2+ LOS. There could be some really dumb stuff that could be done there.

Idk what is right and wrong in this situation. I just continue to play LOS before taking saves until I completely understand this aspect.

In a mixed save unit, wounds are allocated before saves are taken. Look Out Sir! is rolled when a wound is allocated to a character.

In a mixed save unit it goes Allocation > Look out Sir! > Roll saves.

In a same-save unit, you roll all the saves at once and then allocate the wounds, so it goes Roll Saves > Allocation > Look Out Sir!

This came up in my gaming group because one player felt that no matter what, LoS! is rolled before saves. So, I've heard this discussion before. The key is that when Look Out Sir! is described, on page 16, it's specifically said that it occurs when an unsaved wound or wound is allocated to a character. This is because of how the order of things can change depending on the unit composition.