Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 Lokas wrote:

If you want a foot DE list, I'd suggest looking around for NOVA tournament info. There was some player there (whose name escapes me at the moment) who placed very well there with a primarily foot list if memory serves me correctly.

Speaking of Footdar.

I ran a foot list yesterday. One thing that really impressed me was the ability for talos with splinter cannons to reach out and slaughter infantry especially my opponents troops on home objective. On another note I found a use for the WWP as a support portal to prevent our fragile scoring units from giving up first blood. The link to the battle report is bellow (pictures as usual).

BR16: The Black Buzzards VS SoB Mech -1500pts

I fething love that list.

Like, I straight up adore it. I want to take it out to a five star restaurant, buy it the surf and turf and a bottle of their most expensive red wine and then cuddle with it on the couch while we watch romantic comedies.

Why? Why do I love that list?

Because it goes against every piece of the internet's 'common sense' logic and it fething works. It has plenty of scoring units and a means to keep them alive (via the WWP and reserves), it showcases how effective Talos can be, it doesn't take Ravagers or Venoms or Blasterborn, it's a work of pure DE ingenuity and cleverness. I love it.

However, I do have one minor criticism. And I do mean minor. I don't think the haemonculus ancient is a worthwhile upgrade, even though you're using him in an assault unit. I would suggest swapping that out just for a generic haemonculus and using the spare points to buy your grotesque a scissorhand. Scissorhands are pure amazing on grotesques thanks to how the new poison rules work, meaning you can get a boatload of rerollable attacks that wound on a 2+ with the scissorhand. It's pretty sexy. Other than that, I dunno. Might consider switching out the power axe for a venom blade? My reasoning being that, if you've got the scissorhand aberration, he can handle any challenges from 2+ save characters just by drowning them in a storm of attacks. The venom blade is cheaper and can put out more wounds on the chaff, while also preserving your mediocre initiative value. Mediocre is better than 'slower-than-necrons' tier.

Yeah, my only really issue would be the Ancient, and that I'm not a fan of Power Axes in DE... (your list's also 6 points over I think?) If you drop the Ancient to a Haem and the Power Axe to a Venom Blade, you can fit in a 7th Grotesque (and be 1501 instead of 1506)
(Alternatively, I'd consider dropping an additional Grotesque, having 5 walkers and taking a 6th squad of 5 Wracks)

Mushkilla,

I really enjoy your battle reports. What do you use to create the pictures of the movement each turn? Those help me understand what's happening much better than the blurry, poorly framed photos a lot of people use.

This thread (and recently reading Path of the Renegade) is really inspiring me to start Dark Eldar. I have the mega force from last year just sitting here.

 Lokas wrote:

Because it goes against every piece of the internet's 'common sense' logic and it fething works. It has plenty of scoring units and a means to keep them alive (via the WWP and reserves), it showcases how effective Talos can be, it doesn't take Ravagers or Venoms or Blasterborn, it's a work of pure DE ingenuity and cleverness. I love it.

Thanks for the kind words! It's far from refined, I still need to work out the squad sizes of the wracks so that I have more flexibility with deployment and reserves (being able to keep both reaver squads in reserve, or all three taloi etc). So far it's all very experimental, but was a load of fun to play.

 Lokas wrote:

However, I do have one minor criticism. And I do mean minor. I don't think the haemonculus ancient is a worthwhile upgrade, even though you're using him in an assault unit.

My reasoning for the ancient is leadership 9, which is important when you depend on that grotesque unit not running off the board on the first turn. Sure you have to lose two grots before you test, but that's entirely feasible against some armies (focus fire from the three exorcists in that game could have done that). This ties in with well with the command table as it means the inspiring presence roll actually does something. Then there are the other benefits, the increased WS and A increase the haemies damage output in close combat by almost double. Initiative 5 is nice as it helps the grots with sweeping advance. Finally the extra wound doesn't hurt. All in all in my opinion I felt it was well worth the points. Hope that clarifies my reasoning a bit more.

 Lokas wrote:

Scissorhands are pure amazing on grotesques thanks to how the new poison rules work, meaning you can get a boatload of rerollable attacks that wound on a 2+ with the scissorhand. It's pretty sexy.

I personally don't find the scissor hands that appealing 10 more points for an extra attack and wounding on 3s (against T4) if you don't get the charge or are in prolonged combat isn't really worth it in my opinion. The venom blade is cheaper and ensures you are always wounding on 2s and you will have 5-6 attacks instead of 6-7. I do like think flesh-gauntlet is an interesting option due to the changes to how poison works (like you mentioned) and instant death, not to mention it ignores FNP.

 Lokas wrote:

Other than that, I dunno. Might consider switching out the power axe for a venom blade?

As you mentioned the Aberration is pretty strong in challenges, so he will be tying up unit champions and characters so that the haemonculus can hack away with his axe (5 WS5 S5 AP2 attacks on the charge is not that bad at all).

 Ovion wrote:
If you drop the Ancient to a Haem and the Power Axe to a Venom Blade, you can fit in a 7th Grotesque (and be 1501 instead of 1506)

I'm pretty sure my list is 1501 points (haemonculus get access to 10pts power weapons).

 Phaeron wrote:

I really enjoy your battle reports. What do you use to create the pictures of the movement each turn? Those help me understand what's happening much better than the blurry, poorly framed photos a lot of people use.

Thanks.

Most of the time I use Battle Chronicler as its nice and simple, I also find its simple diagrams easier to read (Battle Chronicler Tutorial).

However, my more recent games have been using vassel and make natural diagrams for reports (as that's how you play the game online). I normally just touch them up in paint with a few arrows here and there to make movement clearer.

Hope that helps.

It's a fun looking list, I do agree that a haemonculus ancient is not giving you anything that the generic one can't give you, the reason I would never take one is the fact that it still T4 instead of T5, it's part of why I love Urien, that and the extra pain tokens and the fact that he is very decent in combat..

But my main concern is the one large squad of groteseques, I had this problem when I first started using them, manticores and orbital bombardments, they will make the squad disappear in a second. I use two squads of 5/6 so that even if one does get destroyed like that then they can't get both before I've destroyed it, especially with the cover going down to a 5+. Ofcourse you may not come across them as much as I do.

This is my 1750 list, the Prophets of Flesh

HQ:

Urien Rakarth

Haemonculi w/ Venom Blade & Liquifier

Haemonculi w/ Venom Blade & Liquifier

Elites:

Grotesques x5 w/ Liquifier, +1 Str & Aberration w/ Scissorhand

Grotesques x5 w/ Liquifier & Aberration w/ Scissorhand

Troops:

Wracks x10 w/ 2x Liquifier & Acothyst w/ Venom Blade

Wracks x5 w/ Liquifier

Wracks x5 w/ Liquifier

Wracks x5 w/ Liquifier

Fast:

Scourges x5 w/ 2x Blaster

Scourges x5 w/ 2x Blaster

Scourges x 5 w/ 2x Blaster

Heavy Support:

Talos w/ Chain Flails & Haywire Blaster

Talos w/ Chain Flails & Haywire Blaster

I wanted to be as fluffy as possible, using only the units from a haemonculi covens, reavers are a more optimal choice than scourges but I just love the models and they are still good. I used to have a WWP list until 6th hit, I am thinking of adding in some allies, either the farseer and pathfinders, or the ork doc to give my guys 5++ saves.

What's the general consensus on flickerfields in 6th? I'm torn. I've lost the roll to go first 3 out of the last 4 games I've played and it's cost 2-3 vehicles turn 1 with no save of any kind. Terrain wasn't thick enough to hide much behind etc. but I feel that some FF would be beneficial. On the other hand, I'm stingy with the points I have, trying to max out firepower as much as I can with the points that I have. I've listed my 2.5k list below that I've been playing recently for reference. I'm used to losing vehicles, it's what DE do, but if I can staunch the flow of dying transports, I will.

HQ
Baron - 105 (goes w/ beasts)
1x Haemonculus w/ shattershard - 65 (attaches to bikes turn1, then hops in nearest available transport)

Troops
5x wyches w/ haywire in venom w/ 2x spl. cannons - 125
5x wyches w/ haywire in venom w/ 2x spl. cannons - 125
5x warriors w/ 1x blaster in raider w/ dissy - 120
5x warriors w/ 1x blaster in raider w/ dissy - 120
10x warriors w/ 1x blaster in raider w/ spl. rack and dissy - 175
10x warriors w/ 1x blaster in raider w/ spl. rack and dissy - 175

Elite
3x Trueborn w/ blaster in raider w/ dissy, night shield - 151
3x Trueborn w/ blaster in raider w/ dissy, night shield - 151
3x Trueborn w/ blaster in raider w/ dissy, night shield - 151

Fast Attack
4x beastmasters, 10x khymera, 4x razorwings - 228
9x reavers w/ 3x cluster caltrops - 258

Heavy
Ravager w/ night shield - 115
Ravager w/ night shield - 115
Ravager w/ night shield - 115
Voidraven w/ FF, Night shield, 4x shatterfield - 205

2499

Flickerfields are still good.
They give an invun save, which works against Dangerous Terrain failiures, and against Melee attacks (also when immobilised for what it's worth).

As for your list - I would only ever take a Shattershard if I have the points spare. A Liquifier Gun is generally superior in that it will be reusable. Yes the Shattershard is nice, yes it's just take a Toughness Test or Die, but it's also a 15pt one-shot weapon.
Str4 AP-D6 should kill more models on average than the Shattershard.

ThePhish wrote:
What's the general consensus on flickerfields in 6th? I'm torn. I've lost the roll to go first 3 out of the last 4 games I've played and it's cost 2-3 vehicles turn 1 with no save of any kind.

well venoms come with FF standard, so those go in front of your other vehicles giving those behind an obscured cover save. Otherwise you can try and hide them behind terain, which you said was thin. Dont play with thin terrain.
Flyers NEED the FF. You dont want to jink and lose your shooting next turn, also a lot of things that have skyfire also ignore cover saves, which jink is.

For me I also put them on Ravagers, I really want to keep them alive. Raiders just get too expensive.

I would also look at taking the blasters out of the 10 man units and putting in splinter cannons. That way you can max fire power

 Ovion wrote:
Flickerfields are still good.
They give an invun save, which works against Dangerous Terrain failiures, and against Melee attacks (also when immobilised for what it's worth).

I hadn't considered the dangerous terrain failure.

As for your list - I would only ever take a Shattershard if I have the points spare. A Liquifier Gun is generally superior in that it will be reusable. Yes the Shattershard is nice, yes it's just take a Toughness Test or Die, but it's also a 15pt one-shot weapon.
Str4 AP-D6 should kill more models on average than the Shattershard.

I typically do take a liquifier on him. I had 6 points spare, so upgraded for gaks and giggles. They were all friendly games, and I used it for shennanigans to snipe HQ's if possible. I wouldn't take it in a tournament to avoid any rules disputes and would have the liquifier.

Exergy wrote:
well venoms come with FF standard, so those go in front of your other vehicles giving those behind an obscured cover save. Otherwise you can try and hide them behind terain, which you said was thin. Dont play with thin terrain.
Flyers NEED the FF. You dont want to jink and lose your shooting next turn, also a lot of things that have skyfire also ignore cover saves, which jink is.

I do use the venoms for cover on other vehicles for that reason, however, 2 hull points don't last very long. I used the terrain that was available to hide my Ravagers. I use raiders turned sideways for cover saves on as many other raiders as I can when I still need raiders in a certain area, but have no other cover available. My flyer did have a FF for the reasons you mentioned, see list above.

For me I also put them on Ravagers, I really want to keep them alive. Raiders just get too expensive.

Beyond turn 1, I have no issues avoiding terrain or 'not' moving my ravagers, so typically I hide from los completely if I go 2nd.

What I will probably end up doing is taking a couple of more flicker fields on the smaller warriors squads raiders and using them for the front models to provide cover.

eldartau1987 wrote:
I would also look at taking the blasters out of the 10 man units and putting in splinter cannons. That way you can max fire power.

I have considered that, but I like the option of having an AT weapon if I need one. The splinter rack doesn't work on spl. cannons, and the ride with the splinter rack won't be around forever.

Here is a list for 2000 points that I thought of. What do you think about it folks?

HQ
Haemoculus
Liquifer gun
Venom Blade
65
The Duke 150

Troops
8 Kabalite Warriors

Raider Night Shields, Splinter Racks

Total 152
10 Kabalite Warriors

1 Splinter Cannon

Raider Night Shields, Splinter Racks

Total 180
10 Kabalite Warriors

1 Splinter Cannon

Raider Night Shields, Splinter Racks

Total 180

5 wyches

Haywire

Venom Splinter Cannon
Total 125

5 wyches

Haywire

Venom Splinter Cannon
Total 125

5 Wracks

Aberation

Venom Blade
Liquifier

Raider Nightshields

Total 145
Elites
3 X Trueborn
3x Blasters
Venom Splinter Cannon
Total 146
3 X Trueborn
3x Blasters
Venom Splinter Cannon
Total 146
Fast Attack
3x Bikes
1x Heat Lance
Total 100
3x Bikes
1x Heat Lance
Total 100
5 x Scourges
2 x Heat Lance
Total 134
5 x Scourges
2 x Heat Lance
Total 134
Heavy Support
Ravager
Nightshields
Total 115
Razorwing
Flickerfield
Total 145

Total 1,998

What do people think of hybrid WWP lists where only a few shooty squads come into play from the portal? Things like venom Scourges, Talos Pain engines, etc.

 virx67 wrote:
What do people think of hybrid WWP lists where only a few shooty squads come into play from the portal? Things like venom Scourges, Talos Pain engines, etc.

venoms cannot enter play through the portal.

Reavers can though.

I know vehicle's can't enter; I was talking about scourges with venom cannons.

Venom Cannons are Tyranid weapon.

Scourges with Splinter Cannons maybe?

A shooting WWP list could be interesting, but one wonders if the 1-3 turns of shooting each unit would lose would be worth it.

Using a WWP for shooting units for the most part loses out on the turns they could normally be shooting. However there are a few exceptions that might make for a good WWP list, reavers with heat lances or getting an eldar detachment and putting in a squad of wraithguard, it gets them out right at the range which they can actually use their guns effectively without being shot up in the meantime and losing effectiveness.

 lord_bobbington wrote:
...getting an eldar detachment and putting in a squad of wraithguard, it gets them out right at the range which they can actually use their guns effectively without being shot up in the meantime and losing effectiveness.

Also, bringing D-Cannons into an extremely inconvenient position for the enemy. Really compensates for their short range.

 lord_bobbington wrote:
Using a WWP for shooting units for the most part loses out on the turns they could normally be shooting. However there are a few exceptions that might make for a good WWP list, reavers with heat lances or getting an eldar detachment and putting in a squad of wraithguard, it gets them out right at the range which they can actually use their guns effectively without being shot up in the meantime and losing effectiveness.

Allies can't use the Webway Portals. :(

Would still like to get me some Wraithguard and Wraithlords though.

Has anyone played around with a heavy assault army based around deepstriking Raiders (mayhaps lead by the Duke) in a relative safe place (to avoid mishaps) and then moving flat out in the shooting phase to get into position for assaults next turn? Would that be viable at all?

 Tony2BIG wrote:
Has anyone played around with a heavy assault army based around deepstriking Raiders (mayhaps lead by the Duke) in a relative safe place (to avoid mishaps) and then moving flat out in the shooting phase to get into position for assaults next turn? Would that be viable at all?

so you are going to DS, which means nothing on your turn 1
then no assault on turn 2
then flat out on turn 3
then finally assault on turn 4?

Why DS at all? Raiders can move 30" a turn if they flat out. Adding in the 12" disembark the turn you assault you can just move in from the board edge and reach anywhere on the table.

When you can move that fast there is no need to Deep Strike.

I was mainly thinking of using the WWP to bring in Talos/Chronos. Looking through the codex, these are really the only things that need it to get to the middle of the field. I like the models, and was trying to think of a way to make them be somewhat useful, as I feel that starting them on the edge of the board means that they would be too slow to accomplish anything. Since they wouldn't be able to assualt out of the WWP, I was thinking of taking Haywire Blasters/Liquifers on the Talos, and then Spirit Vortex on a Chronos. I probably wouldn't put anything else in the reserve, as they would benefit more from starting on the table.

My thoughts; DS turn 2 + Flat out or disembark (assuming you're using the duke's deepstrike rules)
assault turn 3

Why?

While moving flat out for two turns might still get you in an equally good position (as DS turn 2 + flat out) for assaults turn 3, that's still one more turn of taking fire from your opponent.
The idea of it all was to take as little enemy fire as possible on your raiders before getting the oppertunity to unload.
Is the unreliability of DS + flat out worth it to avoid a turn of enemy fire?

Depending on deployment etc. you could be assaulting turn 2 vs turn 3. That's not an option if you DS. You 'might' not get your reserves until turn 4, preventing you from assaulting until turn 5.

I have been pondering something: Blaster born vs the blast pistol. Blasters only have an 6" range increase over the blaster pistol. Instead of taking the weak 4 man trueborn squad with blasters, how would people feel about big squads of warriors with a blaster and a squad leader with a blast pistol? Would it be viable? It does not have as mutch dakka and range, but it would have mutch more chance of surviwing longer. What do you think?

Drive 6, disembark 6 and then shoot 12 is not sutch a short range. It is 24" compared to the 30" of blasterborns.

 Niiai wrote:
I have been pondering something: Blaster born vs the blast pistol. Blasters only have an 6" range increase over the blaster pistol. Instead of taking the weak 4 man trueborn squad with blasters, how would people feel about big squads of warriors with a blaster and a squad leader with a blast pistol? Would it be viable? It does not have as mutch dakka and range, but it would have mutch more chance of surviwing longer. What do you think?

Drive 6, disembark 6 and then shoot 12 is not sutch a short range. It is 24" compared to the 30" of blasterborns.

blast pistols have 6" range compared to 18" for blasters. Completely different things.

Blast Pistols are useless, way overpriced at 15 points. Never take them unless you want a fluffy archon with 2 of them who looks cool but is rarely effective.

so with your disembark thing, it is 18" vs 30" which is huge. You are either in autoassault range with the pistol or just at boxcars assault range for them next turn.

Oh, I thought they had 12" range. Never mind.

 Niiai wrote:
Oh, I thought they had 12" range. Never mind.

nope just another useless thing in the DE book.

Exergy, there are quite a lott of cool stuff in the DE book. And usefull.

ThePhish wrote:
What's the general consensus on flickerfields in 6th? I'm torn. I've lost the roll to go first 3 out of the last 4 games I've played and it's cost 2-3 vehicles turn 1 with no save of any kind.

Are you remembering to roll for night fighting before deployment? At least half the time, you should be able to deploy almost without fear or at least +2 save.