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 Wingeds wrote:
Anyone had any good use of Scourges? They seem like a solid choice for popping tanks with blasters and haywire grenades. I've pretty much got a squad of 5 in mind for popping a Leman Russ turn 2.

I use them because they're gorgeous models and fit in with the theme of my army. There is nothing wrong with them, they are a solid choice but reavers just do it better in the same way. I wish that jump infantry could use skyfire or something just to make them fulfill a slightly different role to jetbikes

 Wingeds wrote:
Anyone had any good use of Scourges? They seem like a solid choice for popping tanks with blasters and haywire grenades. I've pretty much got a squad of 5 in mind for popping a Leman Russ turn 2.

They can't take haywire grenades, if they could that would be awesome. Maybe you meant haywire blasters, when I use scourges I run them as a five man squad with two haywire blasters. They do tend to die quick though.

Yea, Haywire Blasters is what I meant, early morning sleepiness hadn't worn off yet. I've got 6 reavers I could use as well. I'll just have to try them out seperately.

I own two boxes of scourges but I haven't really used them nor assembled them. They seemed incredigood in 5E and in 6E they lost SOME lustre, but are still the most reliable anti-tank weapons in the game when taken in 4's.

I juist find the Dark Eldar codex to be SO capable of SO many builds that can work, that it's hard to do everything thats doable. I really do hand it to the author of that codex. It is a fun fun thing to play with. I've done Mandrake armies for the win, done, Monsters, done the Flotilla of doom, and I've seen the Wyche cult lists do well. It's not that the armies are blowing people utterly away (though of course they are capable of it given a few lucky rolls) but its just that they can compete in a lot of different forms.
anyways, good times.

Finally got round to another game, this time with a more traditional shooty kabalite dark eldar list against space wolves, the report is below if anyone is interested (pictures as usual):

BR17: The Black Buzzards VS Space Wolves - 1500pts

It got me thinking how do people run their gunboats and why?

I use disintegrator cannons and I tank shock the boats a lot. Always got me shock prow on.

I'm all about night shields and splinter racks. I usually take FF's too.

I isolate my targets and strafe them until they're no more with massed splinter weapon fire, keeping at the 24" range, as doing so means boltguns are just out of range. My FF protects against the expected ML.

I want to try out wyches with PGL in a raider with GT's and other morale affecting upgrades. I love the idea of them jumping out of the gun boat, slashing the crap out of everything, who then pass their Ld test, only for me to remind them about the modifier, they break, and get cut down in the ensuing chase

Wyches do nothing for me. I dont own a single one and have not really seen anything on the receiving end to make me want them in the force. I love Wracks though. doughty and hard to kill, great weapon options, releatively inexpensive and it allows me to focus more into other army areas.

Lots of people like Wyches though. There are definitely some units that never want to see a wyche as long as they live. Those tend to be squishier stuff though. In a glaaxy FILLEd with mean marines...

One nice thing about Wyches though is they do form a decent tarpit. tough to dislodge from them once they got you and that can be tactically important for other units. So as a component of a greater whole I can see using them. As an army motif, they aren't as cool to me even though i would be far from saying they are bad units. They really are not.

Give them Haywires, drop 'em near a tank, watch tank's owner sweat..

They aren't all that in CC these days, but they can make a LR rue the day it was forged

Hi guys,

First i'd like to thank you all for this thread, gave me very usefull info for my DE in 6th.
Also special thanks to Mushkilla for the battlereps. I love them and its nice to see how some things workou, they contain a lot of usefull info.
It makes me wanna try a warrior blob, already made a list. Also love the reavers, tried them a couple times now. They are difficult to play them to the max use and not get them killed. The failed Ld costs me too.
Reading this thread I saw several times people mention new rules about poisoned weapons.
I dont see them, whats new about poison in 6th? Still able to reroll to wound if S equals or is greater than T of opponent. And wound on specific number.
I also read something about 2 saves? 1 for armour and then another for cover if you failed. This.is not right, you only are able to make 1 save, see brb p. 19.

I'm also thinking about this 1,5k. list. Because most missions have obj. And with VP, you wont have a lot to give away.

HQ
Urien
3 Heamonculi, w/ liquifier and venomblade

Elites
2x 4 grotesques w/ liquifier and ab w/ venomblade
(1 unit and 2 heami in raider w/ diss, sails)

Troops
3x 5 Wracks w/ liquifier
(2 units in venom w/2nd SC)

Heavy
2 ravagers, NS
1 Razorwing, FF

Grots in raider can move flat out t1, deploy out of los, other unit defends center /own obj or go for the relic.
Venoms may harras the enemy inf. And get wracks to extra obj. Foot wracks go behind grots, to claim or get relic.
Could this work?
I'm willing to try

The Cranulator wrote:
One thing I am having trouble with as of late is my friends newly formed Chaos army. The main issue I am having is he uses noise marines as troop types and their weapons are proving quite troublesome. The blast masters take out all DE vehicles quite effectively and the fact that the entire squad negates jink saves (and all cover for that matter) is making things very difficult for me to deal with. Anyone have any suggestions?

A squad of grotesques with a haemi will usually work as bullet sponges and magnets, buying very valuable time for you to be shooty with target saturation.

Anyone tried deep striking with Duke Sliscus? Does it work?

I run two raiders with kabolite warriors in them, one has the Duke in the other has a hex rifle heamy. Both have night shields and splinter racks.
I also run 2 squads of 5 haywire wyches in venoms.
And a ravager (2nd one to be added soon).

 Forgithy wrote:
Hi guys,

Spoiler:

First i'd like to thank you all for this thread, gave me very usefull info for my DE in 6th.
Also special thanks to Mushkilla for the battlereps. I love them and its nice to see how some things workou, they contain a lot of usefull info.
It makes me wanna try a warrior blob, already made a list. Also love the reavers, tried them a couple times now. They are difficult to play them to the max use and not get them killed. The failed Ld costs me too.
Reading this thread I saw several times people mention new rules about poisoned weapons.
I dont see them, whats new about poison in 6th? Still able to reroll to wound if S equals or is greater than T of opponent. And wound on specific number.
I also read something about 2 saves? 1 for armour and then another for cover if you failed. This.is not right, you only are able to make 1 save, see brb p. 19.

I'm also thinking about this 1,5k. list. Because most missions have obj. And with VP, you wont have a lot to give away.

HQ
Urien
3 Heamonculi, w/ liquifier and venomblade

Elites
2x 4 grotesques w/ liquifier and ab w/ venomblade
(1 unit and 2 heami in raider w/ diss, sails)

Troops
3x 5 Wracks w/ liquifier
(2 units in venom w/2nd SC)

Heavy
2 ravagers, NS
1 Razorwing, FF

Grots in raider can move flat out t1, deploy out of los, other unit defends center /own obj or go for the relic.
Venoms may harras the enemy inf. And get wracks to extra obj. Foot wracks go behind grots, to claim or get relic.
Could this work?
I'm willing to try

I would drop Urien.
He's not really anymore resilient than a regular Haem, he's not really anymore killy, and for the cost you can flesh out the rest of the army.
Reducing it by Urien, then 1 standard Haem gives you a lot of wiggle room, enough for an extra transport and some more toys at least.
Even if you're putting 2 Haemonculi to each of the Grotesques, replacing Urien with a standard Haem will give it the same result, be killier and have points left over for another transport.

My 'standard' coven list is:
HQ
2x Haem 2/ Venom Blade, Liquifier Gun
ELITES
2x3 Grots w/ Liquifier Gun, Aberration w/ Venom Blade in Raider w/ Flickerfield, Dis. Cannon.
TROOPS
2x10 Wrack w/ 2 Liquifier Guns, Acothyst w/ Venom Blade in Raider w/ Flickerfield, Dis. Cannon.
2x3 Wrack w/ Acothyst w/ Hex Rifle in Venom w/ Add. Splinter Cannon.
HEAVY SUPPORT
2x Talos w/ TL Liquifier Gun, TL Haywire Blaster
Razorwing w/ Lances, TL Splinter Rifle, Flickerfields, Night Shields.

The Talos are the same cost as the Ravagers w/ Flickerfields, so in the price of Urien, 1 Haem and 2 Grotesques, I have an extra 2 vehicles, an extra upgrade on the razorwing 8 Wracks, same number of liquifiers and 2 hex rifles.

 Shredder wrote:
Anyone tried deep striking with Duke Sliscus? Does it work?

I run two raiders with kabolite warriors in them, one has the Duke in the other has a hex rifle heamy. Both have night shields and splinter racks.
I also run 2 squads of 5 haywire wyches in venoms.
And a ravager (2nd one to be added soon).

Yes it does, there's no need for the wyches though because they WILL die on the next turn and they can't assault the turn they deep striked

 Ovion wrote:


I would drop Urien.
He's not really anymore resilient than a regular Haem, he's not really anymore killy, and for the cost you can flesh out the rest of the army.
Reducing it by Urien, then 1 standard Haem gives you a lot of wiggle room, enough for an extra transport and some more toys at least.
Even if you're putting 2 Haemonculi to each of the Grotesques, replacing Urien with a standard Haem will give it the same result, be killier and have points left over for another transport.

Well I would agree to drop Urien in that list too, but only because he's not lending much to the army really, he's not taking advantage of the extra strength that Urien gives. The extra pain tokens though are useful so your guys don't run off the field

But certainly not because Urien isn't resilient, he is one of the toughest guys to kill ever. That extra toughness, the better FNP, regen and clonefield makes him fantastic. I put him at the front of the army and laugh maniacally.
As for killiness I would have to disagree again, he's just as killy as any haemonculus, partly because he can survive to actually kill things and is good for instant killing other characters in combat because of extra attacks, initiative and WS. The only thing about Urien I don't like is the casket of flensing, which is just a useless item.

You could make a haemonculi or elder haemonculi more killy by adding a huskblade, but if you're going that route you might aswell do an archon instead. If elder haemonculi were T5 instead of 4 I would take them, but otherwise it leaves them still very vulnerable in combat

 lord_bobbington wrote:

 Ovion wrote:


I would drop Urien.
He's not really anymore resilient than a regular Haem, he's not really anymore killy, and for the cost you can flesh out the rest of the army.
Reducing it by Urien, then 1 standard Haem gives you a lot of wiggle room, enough for an extra transport and some more toys at least.
Even if you're putting 2 Haemonculi to each of the Grotesques, replacing Urien with a standard Haem will give it the same result, be killier and have points left over for another transport.

Well I would agree to drop Urien in that list too, but only because he's not lending much to the army really, he's not taking advantage of the extra strength that Urien gives. The extra pain tokens though are useful so your guys don't run off the field

But certainly not because Urien isn't resilient, he is one of the toughest guys to kill ever. That extra toughness, the better FNP, regen and clonefield makes him fantastic. I put him at the front of the army and laugh maniacally.
As for killiness I would have to disagree again, he's just as killy as any haemonculus, partly because he can survive to actually kill things and is good for instant killing other characters in combat because of extra attacks, initiative and WS. The only thing about Urien I don't like is the casket of flensing, which is just a useless item.

You could make a haemonculi or elder haemonculi more killy by adding a huskblade, but if you're going that route you might aswell do an archon instead. If elder haemonculi were T5 instead of 4 I would take them, but otherwise it leaves them still very vulnerable in combat

It's not as killy, because he's as killy (maybe a little killier) on his own as any individual, but you get 2-3 others for the cost. (or a tank.)

 Ovion wrote:

 lord_bobbington wrote:

 Ovion wrote:


I would drop Urien.
He's not really anymore resilient than a regular Haem, he's not really anymore killy, and for the cost you can flesh out the rest of the army.
Reducing it by Urien, then 1 standard Haem gives you a lot of wiggle room, enough for an extra transport and some more toys at least.
Even if you're putting 2 Haemonculi to each of the Grotesques, replacing Urien with a standard Haem will give it the same result, be killier and have points left over for another transport.

Well I would agree to drop Urien in that list too, but only because he's not lending much to the army really, he's not taking advantage of the extra strength that Urien gives. The extra pain tokens though are useful so your guys don't run off the field

But certainly not because Urien isn't resilient, he is one of the toughest guys to kill ever. That extra toughness, the better FNP, regen and clonefield makes him fantastic. I put him at the front of the army and laugh maniacally.
As for killiness I would have to disagree again, he's just as killy as any haemonculus, partly because he can survive to actually kill things and is good for instant killing other characters in combat because of extra attacks, initiative and WS. The only thing about Urien I don't like is the casket of flensing, which is just a useless item.

You could make a haemonculi or elder haemonculi more killy by adding a huskblade, but if you're going that route you might aswell do an archon instead. If elder haemonculi were T5 instead of 4 I would take them, but otherwise it leaves them still very vulnerable in combat

It's not as killy, because he's as killy (maybe a little killier) on his own as any individual, but you get 2-3 others for the cost. (or a tank.)

My point was, he is a better killer because he can kill more, but also because he can survive to kill more. Haemonculi are really not that survivable, they're not going to survive challenges (or they'll either be sent to the back of the line and still not earn their points), they can't be used to distribute wounds because one missile, lascannon, meltaguns to the face will kill them with little to no defense, they can be wounded easier and only have 2 wounds to fall back on.

Haemonculi have their place, they're good, they can get liquifiers which are awesome, but Urien is easily worth his points and can kill his share.

You can buy a DE vehicle, which are super survivable these days

Urien is ridiculous to try and kill in challenges. Keep him. He's excellent.

Hey, thanx. I'll keep Urien for now. He also gives my grots +1S.
If it doesnt work, I'll take an extra heami and 5 wracks w/venom.

 Forgithy wrote:

Also special thanks to Mushkilla for the battlereps. I love them and its nice to see how some things workou, they contain a lot of usefull info.

Thanks! Glad you found them useful.

 Forgithy wrote:

Reading this thread I saw several times people mention new rules about poisoned weapons.

The change is that they can now wound on values less then their "fixed value". For example wracks with furious charge against guardsmen, they would wound on a 3+ and be able to re-roll to wound (rather than wounding on a 4+ and re-rolling to wound last edition).

 Forgithy wrote:

Could this work?

I feel it's a bit low on troops, having run a lot of lists with 2-3 troop choices in 6th I don't think it's adequate enough, especially such small squads.

Ohyeah - I forget the +1str. xD
Though that does make it kinda even more expensive...

Eh - gut reaction is to drop Urien and his pointy points for more STUFF overall.

Dude, when those Grotesques get to you and your parking lot, its just not a good scene for the parkees. Lol. STR 6 for the WIN

For dedicated AI duty in sub 1000 point games would a 5 man squad of dual splinter cannon Scourges be preferable to a 5 man cluster caltrops Reaver squad? I like the increased toughness of the reavers and their 3+ cover, but it seems the Scourges are more reliable tactically in that they put out at least 8-12 shots a turn and can jump in after an enemy advance to erase a unit.

Also, does the respective usefulness of Scourges and Reaves change as points increase above 1000? Is there a point where having 9 Reavers nets you a sizable tactical advantage over 10 Scourges (be they on Haywire AT duty or Splinter cannon AI duty)?

Is 5 reavers not a waste as it's 1 per 3 bikes for special weapons / special bladevanes?

Personally, I'll always run multiples of 3 reavers and multiples of 5 scourges to take best advantage of their gear.

 Makutsu wrote:

 Shredder wrote:
Anyone tried deep striking with Duke Sliscus? Does it work?

I run two raiders with kabolite warriors in them, one has the Duke in the other has a hex rifle heamy. Both have night shields and splinter racks.
I also run 2 squads of 5 haywire wyches in venoms.
And a ravager (2nd one to be added soon).

Yes it does, there's no need for the wyches though because they WILL die on the next turn and they can't assault the turn they deep striked

I dont care if my 5 HWG wyches die after wrecking a tank. sacrificing 60 pts of wyches to take out a 150-250 pts tank is worth it to me. I usually have enough troops left to capture objectives anyway

I had a game against a Ravenwing army from the new codex, the reports bellow if anyone is interested (pictures as usual):

BR18: The Black Buzzards VS Ravenwing - 1500pts

Splinter fire really does a number on them.

 Mushkilla wrote:
I had a game against a Ravenwing army from the new codex, the reports bellow if anyone is interested (pictures as usual):

BR18: The Black Buzzards VS Ravenwing - 1500pts

Splinter fire really does a number on them.

Thanks for the report. I have a game against Ravenwing next week, so this has helped me out!

 Shredder wrote:

Thanks for the report. I have a game against Ravenwing next week, so this has helped me out!

Thanks! Glad to here it. Hope your game goes well.

Thanks for the report Mushkilla. I was planing on jumping into the DE bandwagon again after a long period withouth playing mutch and painting. This was inspiering.

I was supriced by how fast the ravenwing army gets to the other side, The darkshroud really helps at it buys him a lott of time. Do you shoot the darkshroud or the bikes? You do not have the time to do both in.

Next whennday I am up against IG. Never played them as DE before. I think they are suposebly my worst oponent.

 Mushkilla wrote:
Finally got round to another game, this time with a more traditional shooty kabalite dark eldar list against space wolves, the report is below if anyone is interested (pictures as usual):

BR17: The Black Buzzards VS Space Wolves - 1500pts

It got me thinking how do people run their gunboats and why?

good report

you did the correct thing since you were going second

when i run by gunboats is essential to take 2 venoms (i did put in a 3rd in another list but i'll see about that...) as a very efficient distraction, and a right royal pain in the arse

in my experience its essential to have a blistering response to any potential long range threats, so those long fangs would get mercelessly spammed by splinter shots, or if i feel really mean my raider with my trueborn would stop by for a little chat about firepower suppress these and then you have an advantage. And when using mine i always err on the side of not getting out until it suits me to do so (though this never happens most of the time, unless they get blown up), people don't really like it when you slowly glide across the table shooting the crap out of them.

As always opponents have to learn the hard way to take out those venoms before they start killing things in short order! some don't seem to get that big mistake