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I'm buying 2 starter DA sets, 6 bikes will fit in my GK army, with Sammael.

@ Sudojo - when the new Dark Angels come out, you should do a work up for Draigo Army/ Deathwing Allies.

I've had some thoughts on this combo already but so far it feels like it will be similar to what I would do with vanilla marine allies but maybe a few changes. Tac Terminators with cyclone missles to hold down objectives if I do a terminator wing army though I feel it'll suffer from wayyyyy too few models. I think paladins alone are probably stronger. What I feel will probably do well though would be T5 bikers. It'll really come down to what the codex says but from experiences so far in 6th, bikers are the boss so probably some sort of DA biker build for objectives + fast attacking with shunting DK/interceptors. We shall see what they give us!

Personally if DA terminators cyclone missle launchers got flakk, they would be really good to take. Hard to budge by air forces, good survivability in ruins (it's still a 4+ cover!) and terminators being much more resistant to assault than say a hydra, I'd probably swap out for them for my main anti-air (if they got flakk in the next codex that is)

Okay so I need some help on my interceptor squad. In a 1500 point game, my all GK gun line, this interceptor squad is 5 interceptors with 1 psycannon. But it doesn't seem to do any better than my regular squads, except they shunt move and then that seems to piss off my opponent who proceeds to kill them all with several units worth of gunfire. Is it the layout? The tactics? Could I spend the 150pts somewhere more useful?

Rewriting this for the first page

Interceptors work better when you know your enemy's codex. I.e. what is over 170 points that's worth taking out for the interceptors. Shunt to the back of it and shoot it to death. (most likely you will be shot to death the following turn) Alternatively, an incinerator is really useful for them as well since you can potentially flame some snipers to death that has been sniping at your characters with AP2 shots since they roll 6's like a boss. Str 6 flamer can dent some tanks too and it'll be auto hit instead of the psycannon needing to roll for hitting also. (personally I still like the psycannon though since I can use them in fire support mode) (also, the guys can shoot storm bolters at armor 10 backs, AND you get to throw a krack or frag grenade now too - as you are likely very close to the enemy). Of additional note, you can shunt into terrain, no deep strike tests, and even dangerous terrain you can pass on armor saves now, so look for some 4+ ruins to get into if you are worried about survival.

I've had one good game with them were by they got dropped off by a strom raven, somehow survived (as everyone was shooting at the raven) and then managed to kill their target and then shunt back to my hq to contest it again as the enemy wiped out my home guard. What you get is flexibility! Don't forget they also get to move 12' normally and if you go 6', you can reroll a charge, as well as get Hammer of wrath in case you do just use them to assault. (something I'm still experimenting with in 6th)

The assaulty interceptors would function pretty similarly to like a bunch of BA jump assault marines but you don't get FnP :/

I stick with psycannons on interceptors. for some reason GW jacked up the price of Incinerators on them and Strike Squads, while giveing them to Purifiers for free?

2 Psycannons and Psybolts on a 10 man squad gives a pretty nasty anti-vehicle unit. 16 Str5 and 4(8) str7 rending shots are not something any vehicle that doesn't have AV14 rear is going to want up their backside. And most non-vehicles won't appreciate it either.

Grey Templar wrote:2 Psycannons and Psybolts on a 10 man squad gives a pretty nasty anti-vehicle unit. 16 Str5 and 4(8) str7 rending shots are not something any vehicle that doesn't have AV14 rear is going to want up their backside. And most non-vehicles won't appreciate it either.

On the contrary, a more accurate description of that combo is an anti-everything unit.

True dat

Don't forget the thrown krack grenade!

Yeah, its the poor-man's Hammerhand

If only you could throw you Hammerhand.

What are people's thoughts on GK with Ork allies? I've always loved Orks personally (used to play green tide and Kan wall) and Orks could fill a cheap cannon fodder role (I currently play Draigowing). I know they are desperate allies, but as long as you keep them over 6" away (which doesn't seem to be difficult to do) you're golden.

Give them some rokkits and hidden claws and send the boyz forward backed up by psycannons and autocannon dreadnughts. Thoughts?

problem is that the Orks (or GK if they're the allied detachment) are non-denial, non-scoring, and there's the potential inconvenience of One Eye Open too.

Because GK units tend to be expensive, losing scoring and (especially) denial on any unit in the army is quite a big deal really.

You have good points and I've considered those cons, but wouldn't they be useful as cheap tarpits with the changes to Fearless? A group of 30 boyz with shootas could theoretically act as 'denial' by swamping an enemy scoring unit so it can't maneuver to where it needs to go, and prevent it from shooting my GK scoring units off the objectives they are sitting on.

It is a bit of a stretch, but seems viable.

Sure. If you can get it where you need it without interfering with your own units. And I'm not sure it'll tarpit anything that's actually too nasty in assault, and it'd probably easily beat something not very suited to assault. And codex marines will still be able to fall back if they lose combat and the orks' low initiative means they're unlikely to tarpit them.

I see the idea and it could work. But on the whole I think I'd prefer to use weaklings. You'd get about 2 squads of 8 with a couple of plasma guns each for the same sort of price I think. obviously they'd not be tarpitting units, but they would score and shoot rather more effectively overall.

Might be worth an experiment. What would you take as HQ?

I agree, Orks don't have a place being allies to GK.

As far as Ork HQ, my first idea was the good old KFF Big Mek, but honestly with the nerf to cover, I'm not sold on it. I was thinking of putting in a warboss for issuing challenges.

I think it would be a fun experiment. One Eye Open rule really doesn't worry me; they are easily separated from my main detachment, and even if they aren't, it only occurs on the roll of a 1. I like living on the edge.

Sure I could use weaklings, but I'm trying to come up with a fun alternative. My Tournament list swaps the points allocated for these allies with 2 units of 2 paladins, each with a hammer and halberd. It's more competitive for obvious reasons, but the ork allies list would be for pure lol factor.

I think the HQ should be cheap really to fit with the idea.

So I've put that battle report up like promised here. Enjoy.

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:
So I've put that battle report up like promised here. Enjoy.

I like the cleanliness and simplicity of your batrep, but one thing I wanted to point out was the use of the Stormraven's POTM power. I recall reading that if you declare Skyfire for the flyer, all shots, including POTM shots, will be fired as Skyfire, so your missiles shouldn't have been able to fire at the Assault Marines on Turn 2 as it's a blast weapon. Did the Assault Marines assault the Hover Mode Storm Raven in turn 4? Interesting use of Outflank for Grand Strategy too, might use that next time on a Dreadknight or something...

 Enigwolf wrote:

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:
So I've put that battle report up like promised here. Enjoy.

I like the cleanliness and simplicity of your batrep, but one thing I wanted to point out was the use of the Stormraven's POTM power. I recall reading that if you declare Skyfire for the flyer, all shots, including POTM shots, will be fired as Skyfire, so your missiles shouldn't have been able to fire at the Assault Marines on Turn 2 as it's a blast weapon. Did the Assault Marines assault the Hover Mode Storm Raven in turn 4? Interesting use of Outflank for Grand Strategy too, might use that next time on a Dreadknight or something...

PoTMS allows the weapon to be fired at full BS so is not relegated to Snap Shot and so the Blast can be fired. And no, the Assault Marine popped it with 3 Melta shots.

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:

 Enigwolf wrote:

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:
So I've put that battle report up like promised here. Enjoy.

I like the cleanliness and simplicity of your batrep, but one thing I wanted to point out was the use of the Stormraven's POTM power. I recall reading that if you declare Skyfire for the flyer, all shots, including POTM shots, will be fired as Skyfire, so your missiles shouldn't have been able to fire at the Assault Marines on Turn 2 as it's a blast weapon. Did the Assault Marines assault the Hover Mode Storm Raven in turn 4? Interesting use of Outflank for Grand Strategy too, might use that next time on a Dreadknight or something...

PoTMS allows the weapon to be fired at full BS so is not relegated to Snap Shot and so the Blast can be fired. And no, the Assault Marine popped it with 3 Melta shots.

But which supercedes which? Declaring skyfire or PoTMS? Any rule-mongers can help clear up this confusion for me? If they can indeed fire non-snapfire, then I really want to build my stormravens differently...

Did you not read what I just said? Nothing is declaring Snap Fire in this instance; PoTMS allows you to fire at full ballistic skill. Remember that the Machine Spirit is not the pilot firing, so not sure why this is so hard to fathom. But I'm not going to argue it further, as this isn't the thread.

But as for re-arming Ravens, you can't change the missiles, so the ruling makes no difference.

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:
Did you not read what I just said? Nothing is declaring Snap Fire in this instance; PoTMS allows you to fire at full ballistic skill. Remember that the Machine Spirit is not the pilot firing, so not sure why this is so hard to fathom. But I'm not going to argue it further, as this isn't the thread.

But as for re-arming Ravens, you can't change the missiles, so the ruling makes no difference.

Take a chill pill and calm down, I'm not - and never was - arguing with you. I did read in one of the earlier threads that declaring Skyfire will Snapfire PoTMS too, I'm not trying to argue either side of it. And it does change the way I load out my Ravens because of how I utilize their role on the battlefield - I wasn't specifically referring to the missiles, I was referring to the turret weapons.

 Enigwolf wrote:

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:
Did you not read what I just said? Nothing is declaring Snap Fire in this instance; PoTMS allows you to fire at full ballistic skill. Remember that the Machine Spirit is not the pilot firing, so not sure why this is so hard to fathom. But I'm not going to argue it further, as this isn't the thread.

But as for re-arming Ravens, you can't change the missiles, so the ruling makes no difference.

Take a chill pill and calm down, I'm not - and never was - arguing with you. I did read in one of the earlier threads that declaring Skyfire will Snapfire PoTMS too, I'm not trying to argue either side of it. And it does change the way I load out my Ravens because of how I utilize their role on the battlefield - I wasn't specifically referring to the missiles, I was referring to the turret weapons.

Perfectly chill, never assume anything else across the internet, where tone and feelings don't exist. And if you weren't arguing that's fine, but then don't post an argument. Simple as.

Now back to tactics...

What do you guys think of GK with Necron allies?

 Red Comet wrote:
What do you guys think of GK with Necron allies?

Pointless. Necrons don't add anything to Grey Knights that we need, but they do however water down the effectiveness of the army by eating up points. In fact this is a general rule I think people should follow for allies; if building a competitive list, don't take allies unless you need them, as generally you are spending more on them than you need to and those points are best sticking with the thing you know has synergy, the army as a singular entity.

The only thing I miss in my lists is something fast and durable, like bikes. That's why I'm adding DA bikes when I get them. Or SM/white scars ones. Don't know yet, but Sammael in a bike unit with apoth, maybe do a good job.

Dreadknights can be fast, and are always durable.

 Red Comet wrote:
What do you guys think of GK with Necron allies?

I actually like them and am working on a cheese list as we speak.

Pointless. Necrons don't add anything to Grey Knights that we need, but they do however water down the effectiveness of the army by eating up points. In fact this is a general rule I think people should follow for allies; if building a competitive list, don't take allies unless you need them, as generally you are spending more on them than you need to and those points are best sticking with the thing you know has synergy, the army as a singular entity.

while this is true in many ways, I do think that necrons really can benefit from some GK allies or vice versa as some of my proxy games so far have been pretty successful.

I can't tell yet if staying with pure is better but my better purifiers builds now use necrons and so far I've even gone as far as necron main, GK allies and here's my reasoning:

1) crowe is now expendable. He's no longer your warlord so you can get him killed just like before. A necron destroyer lord in the middle of a bunch of wraiths is damn hard to kill not to mention res orb is one cheap as hell ability along with MSS (most amazing 15 point upgrade in the entire game bar none)

That wraith unit actually doubles as my "death star" while really not too over the top expensive.

2) Crowe + purifiers are good for thinning out hordes. I generally run 1 to 2 squads of them anyway points permitting and use them to suck up stuff like hordes of gaunts/big nid bugs that just begs to get force weaponed. Orks and guardsmen too but so far it's all been shooting, I've yet to make it into a big guard blob though if I could, I bet it'd be amazing. I can also combat squad them to give me something to do for objectives

3) I really should take the AC dread to give me something to do vs psy defense but I've found that everyone has just been buffing themselves lately and for whatever reason I tend to roll 5's on DTW more times than I fail but really shouldn't work that way. *Because of that* I've found a DK to be quite useful to help again with annoying cover hugging snipers and the like which necrons can waste inordinate amount of time trying to shoot off. Trying to budge some 2+ cover pathfinders (eldar)? so annoying. Necrons really don't have that much anti-cover and really no templates unless taking that gauntlet of fire and some royal courts.

4) Necron air force + storm raven do well. Not super, but well enough. 2 doom arks have been devestating and then having a DK come into your face at the same time gives alot of target saturation. Total my list only has 4 fliers (2 doom, 1 SR, and 1 night scythe with some grot squad of warriors to camp or the crowe purifiers) so not toooo over the top like some 9-10 flier craziness. So I tend to still play semi-competitive but not OMGWTFBBQ cheese.

5) given the future for flakk, and necron relative weakness to MC's, (not much of a weakness honestly but I think GK just tends to do it slightly better), I wouldn't completely disconunt the Necron + GK alliance. I do give up alot of potential divination coverage which is still a drawback to this list though I've not had too much problems handling opponents anyway given BS4 across the board and very survivable units.

I started this thought on page one but only recently got to try it with some proxies and it's fairly decent. I'm goning to still try to refine it further.

When plastic sisters come out in 2013 however, I'm so building my Justicar Thawn + St. Celestine list and somehow shape or way, I'll make that thing work. (or at least not get laughed off the board by turn 3)

That's the thing though, Necrons with Grey Knights allies isn't the same as Grey Knights with Necron allies. The allied detachment is more limited for one. Necrons could make use of Grey Knights I suppose, but again, I think we are talking about an army that already has all the tools.

 Grey Templar wrote:
I stick with psycannons on interceptors. for some reason GW jacked up the price of Incinerators on them and Strike Squads, while giveing them to Purifiers for free?

2 Psycannons and Psybolts on a 10 man squad gives a pretty nasty anti-vehicle unit. 16 Str5 and 4(8) str7 rending shots are not something any vehicle that doesn't have AV14 rear is going to want up their backside. And most non-vehicles won't appreciate it either.

Depends how you use them. I put incinerators on them, which is slightly expensive but basically provides a tool to sweep units off an objective on turn 5. Move 30 accurately, place S6 flamer(s), watch objective suddenly be empty. I think their biggest weakness is that people play them like purifiers, which they're really not.

I'm not even sure I'd start them on the board in an objective game.

I am running GK/Crons at NOVA

I decided to supplement the Draigo-star with Fliers and Wraiths:

Draigo - 275
Coteaz - 100
Techmarine - Grenade Set - 115
10 Paladins - 4 Psycannon, 4 Hammer, 1 Stave, 5 Halberd - 650
5 Henchmen - 20
Destroyer Lord - Weave - 140
5 Warriors - Night Scythe - 165
5 Warriors - Night Scythe - 165
5 Wraiths - 2 Coils - 195
Doom Scythe - 175

So far it has worked really well for me. The Wraiths score courtesy of Draigo (NOVA allows this). So I have 5 scoring squads, 2 hammer units and the ability to cover the board with fast units (a weakness in Draigo lists). I also am fairly immune to alpha strikes. I generally deploy only Paladins and Wraiths and usually keep the Wraiths out of LoS. Turn 2 I generally attempt to pounce. Communion helps me get all 3 fliers in with relative ease.