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lol just re-read it and it seems that I've been doing it wrong.The way it's written now, it feels like there would be no difference in spotting length. It doesn't matter anymore if you hit it seems. Just that you shoot your storm bolter, even if it's an auto miss, you can still chose to illuminate the thing. I know they got rid of the 3d6 spotting range but I had always thought for some reason that your light only worked if your weapon could have hit the guy. Guess they took that part out too.

My list is along the lines of coteaz, 2 purifier squads in rhinos, 3x10 man henchan (warrior acolytes with boltguns, 2 squads have 3 plasma, 1 has 3 melta), 2 psyrifleman.

Then I have been toying with a stormraven, dredknight, terminator squad.

The main problem with nighfighting has been with the long deployment (short edged) which has basically shut my dreads down.

Cheers

So give them Searchlights and deploy them on the mark. No avoiding them then.

So now that the CSM codex has a complete online leak, and this weekend people might be playing it. What are the stand out "F-YOU"s we have against them? My area doesn't have many chaos daemons or chaos space marines players. Though I hear a lot of them had CSM from awhile back and might make a comeback to the tables. I haven't had much experience against them and forget our subtle rules against daemon classifications. Like for instance a buddys demon prince and my dreadknight got into a slugfest but every wound I caused on him I forgot to make him take a Ld test or be removed from daemon bane.

Chaos has range on us. Every vehicle can buy a Havoc launcher for real cheap.


It appears that there will be quite alot of variety in the chaos list much like ours. Potentially 7 different troops in the codex. Cultists and CSM as base, Cult Units become troops with a Lord of matching Mark, and Abbaddon makes Chosen troops.

So it really depends on the army the Chaos player fields.

Plain old MoT on a unit is worse(6++ or +1 to inv)

Marks are cheaper overall and costed appropriatly.

Chaos can get Flakk missiles on some squads(losing their normal missile load) so we will need to be mindfull of our Stormravens.

DPs with Wings are FMCs so Chaos has 2 different flyers. helldrake and winged princes.

Chaos will be good, but we'll still be better, and we have the edge on them. We have Prefered Enemy against a lot more of their units than we did before, and at mid range we still outgun them. I can't see the combat options being very competitive so we have them there as well.

So, I've seen the codex. And Daemon Princes (our supposedly best and scariest HQ besides named characters) now sucks ass. They can't take Marks or Icons, and can only get the "Deamons of ______ (god)" which are mostly gakky rules. Leaving our non-Eternal Warrior "Nurgle DP" to die when a single Demolisher Round hits them and we only get a 5+ invuln. And for you Tzeentchians, you can't take Mark of Tzeentch, SO THERE IS NO WAY TO GIVE HIM BETTER THAN A 5+ INVULN!!! They are now the absolute worst HQ in the new codex and, quite frankly, this angers me, A LOT! I'm sorry for raging, but I think that is literal BS. Other than that, the codex is very good. Just DP suck, thank you that is all!

And what has DPs being crap got to do with Grey Knights?

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:
And what has DPs being crap got to do with Grey Knights?

My thinking is that we won't see many daemon prince lead CSM units and probably more Lord based HQ's which will go somewhat to ignoring our perferred enemy rule as we'll likely see more henchmen/csm troops and havocks in their all comers lists than daemons. We'll definately be out ranged by all the havock blast markers so I see some of this as a slight buff to our purifier lists (but somewhat as an overall meh / nerf -time will tell)as we'll definately need some bodies that are good at choppy to threaten their gun lines while ours gets into position. I already use a 10 strong rhino purifier unit so it's not toooo much of a difference to me but I will now potentially have to move up my gun line safely hugging cover as I still use quite a few unarmored foot henchmen squads. Teleporter on the DK will be more useful as well and like has been mentioned above, the flying dragons will be a threat to our infantry so it's gonna be a game of cat and mouse with our storm ravens as our best anti-air unit available vs their dragons and flakk missles.

More to come as I try to see the most efficient way to deal with this (but again, I'd have to actually see the full fury of CSM in action. One of the locals just got the dark vengence set and will be trying it out in a few weeks with proxies as soon as the codex is out fully.)

Have people not read any of the Chaos info.? Half of the Codex has the Daemon USR.

And regardless, jeremy's post made no mention of Grey Knights at all, it was plainly just a rant about how bad DPs were, which has no place in our thread.

I honestly haven't read it yet. Stuff takes forever to get here in Japan. From what I've seen of the different theoritical chaos builds, it seems heavy in havoc launchers with either rhino spam or something with noise marines and some theoritical flying dragon madness, either that, or you'd just be seeing the countless hordes henchmen/cultist builds.

While they lack good special weapons, it'll probably play much like green tide with a much weaker nob though it's quite cheap. 4 power weapon attacks on the charge will still likely hurt something. 110 points if the one sheet I saw was correct for mob of 30 bodies with a power weapon for the "sarge" 91 attacks on a charge could be fun lol.

Well, my LGS started a league this week, same army, can change list. At 1500 points.

Yesterday I had and won my first game, but it was quite easy.

I ran coteaz, inq, henchmen with jokaeros and plasma cannon, 2gkss with psi ammo and psycannon, vindicare, techmarine with rads, stormraven with melta and hurricanes w/ psiammo.

He ran 6 paladins with Draigo, and 7 paladins with a librarian outflanking.

The mission was the reliq one, and, if he had run with all those paladins to it, trying to hold it, maybe, just maybe, could have won, but the plasma cannons, with 9 servoskulls around the reliq, coteaz with bad luck and cover ignore, the other inquisitor with prescience... he just went shot to death.

Local gaming group running a combat patrol style event

500 points
min 1 hq 1 troop
no allies
no flyers
no fortifications
no forgeworld
no vehicle armor total greater than 33 (count side once, quantam shielding does count so no necron vehicles)

Would do you guys think would be a nasty gk list, was thinking of continuing with coteaz and just spam as many henchman as possible, or maybe could take a dreadknight, thoughts?

You just know a Dreadknight would be fun at 500 points.

tuiman wrote:
Local gaming group running a combat patrol style event

500 points
min 1 hq 1 troop
no allies
no flyers
no fortifications
no forgeworld
no vehicle armor total greater than 33 (count side once, quantam shielding does count so no necron vehicles)

Would do you guys think would be a nasty gk list, was thinking of continuing with coteaz and just spam as many henchman as possible, or maybe could take a dreadknight, thoughts?

AFAIK, Patrol doesn't allow 2+ saves neither. Did you forgot it or it's just what you pasted?

If so, Coteaz with henchmen is the way to go.

2 + saves are all good, as are mc's. Just the rules I posted above will be used

tuiman wrote:
2 + saves are all good, as are mc's. Just the rules I posted above will be used

Then, try this:

Coteaz
Malleus with mastery 1, 1 servoskull

Henchmen with coteaz:
7 acolites with bolter
3 servitors with plasma cannon
2 jokaero

Henchmen with malleus:
5 death cult with sword and axe
3 crusaders with axe
Chimera with 2 HB

Now you have a good shooting unit with prescience that can turn into dust any unit, and a very strong CC unit that can be or into your enemy face or hidden behind an structure near Coteaz to make sure you don't leave them alone in CC combat.

Everyone with prescience, with some luck you'll get Bad Luck on Coteaz, or the ignore cover one, and that unit it's golden.

At 500 points, few things can be more versatile than henchmen.

And the skull, it's because you've 5 points left, but place it at range of the enemy main cover (a big building for example) to get one dice less on the plasma cannons, if the enemy is shooty (longfangs, for example), or if the enemy is CC, place it near your coteaz unit (not aside, but near).

DakotaBlue wrote:

tuiman wrote:
2 + saves are all good, as are mc's. Just the rules I posted above will be used

Then, try this:

Coteaz
Malleus with mastery 1, 1 servoskull

Henchmen with coteaz:
7 acolites with bolter
3 servitors with plasma cannon
2 jokaero

Henchmen with malleus:
5 death cult with sword and axe
3 crusaders with axe
Chimera with 2 HB

Now you have a good shooting unit with prescience that can turn into dust any unit, and a very strong CC unit that can be or into your enemy face or hidden behind an structure near Coteaz to make sure you don't leave them alone in CC combat.

Everyone with prescience, with some luck you'll get Bad Luck on Coteaz, or the ignore cover one, and that unit it's golden.

At 500 points, few things can be more versatile than henchmen.

And the skull, it's because you've 5 points left, but place it at range of the enemy main cover (a big building for example) to get one dice less on the plasma cannons, if the enemy is shooty (longfangs, for example), or if the enemy is CC, place it near your coteaz unit (not aside, but near).

Sweet, thanks.

Have started a new topic here to keep this one on track

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/480087.page#4832514

Others feel free to chime in

DakotaBlue wrote:Now you have a good shooting unit with prescience that can turn into dust any unit but loses its potency if it moves, and a very strong CC unit that can be or into your enemy face or hidden behind an structure near Coteaz to make sure you don't leave them alone in CC combat but will be fighting on turn 3 at the earliest and gets butchered if it assaults through terrain.

Fixed that for you.

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:

DakotaBlue wrote:Now you have a good shooting unit with prescience that can turn into dust any unit but loses its potency if it moves, and a very strong CC unit that can be or into your enemy face or hidden behind an structure near Coteaz to make sure you don't leave them alone in CC combat but will be fighting on turn 3 at the earliest and gets butchered if it assaults through terrain.

Fixed that for you.

What's the problem with getting in CC at turn 3?

And the inquisitor have frag grenades. So no, not butchering for 'em.

And also, why would you move that squad? I just don't get it.

Think that's a patrol game, not a 2000p. game.

DakotaBlue wrote:What's the problem with getting in CC at turn 3?

Turn 3 at best, there's a difference. It is incredibly limiting tactically, especially if you need that assault turn 2.

DakotaBlue wrote:And the inquisitor have frag grenades. So no, not butchering for 'em.

Read the grenade rules. Assault Grenades work on a model per model basis in 6th edition, so the DCAs don't benefit only the Inquisitor carrying them does.

DakotaBlue wrote:And also, why would you move that squad? I just don't get it.

Incomnig enemy, out of range, all the usual suspects. Standard 40k.

Interesting discussions going on at the new various CSM threads and it's gotten me thinking of better zombie defences for GK's. Obvious choices would be something like DK's and incinerators and purifiers but I'm having some difficulty trying to figure out how to model in the values as I don't have the codex. Also unclear of the new thresholds for their FnP saves for zombies should work as I'm wondering if Typhus would somehow buff their Toughness value.

Despite looking like purifiers charging in should be working, I'm wondering just how long would a squad be bogged down by large enough zombies squads and could they then be succeptable to dragon spam or mauler counter charges. Also, does zombification of cultisits count as turning them into daemons for our perferred enemies? Need to calculate the break even point for cleansing flame/ hammer hand / force activation and or effects of rad grenades

(mostly cause I have a really powerful squad of 10 purifiers + techmarine / xenos inquisitor that's not too expensive and can pretty much whipe the floor of most units it counter attacks

Plague Zombies are T3 with 6+AS and FNP. Heavy Incinerators destroy them utterly.

Not to mention Plague Zombies cannot shoot at all. I don't think we'll have any issues utterly destroying Plague Zombies since they can take no options and can't even take a Mark of Nurgle. I feel like anything in the book we can handle pretty well as is.

But don't they have autopistols standard?

Or do their specifically forbid them from shooting.

 Grey Templar wrote:
But don't they have autopistols standard?

Or do their specifically forbid them from shooting.

AFAIK they lose them when they upgrade to Zombies.

hmmm, I thought it was just that the unit couldn't take any upgrades of any kind in exchange for FnP, Fearless, and SnP. AFAIK they don't lose anything.

They get downgraded to having a single CCW.

The Autopistol is used to hit people. Zombie Cultists are only equipped with 1 CCW IIRC.

Just back from a 5 game weekend tournament; got there on time this time

Managed 5th place, a point short of 4th, and 3 short of podium. Got big wins over Blood Angels, Grey Knights and Daemons as well as a slightly smaller win over Necrons. This left me leading the pack 10pts ahead of all opposition for game 5, and then my dice decided to abandon me in favour of my opponent (who was also using my dice) and I lost big time to a Grey Knight/Necron alliance.

1st place went to that Grey Knight/Necron list, 2nd to the Daemons I beat (all Tzeentch BTW, 18 Flamers and 18 Screamers), 3rd to Necrons, and 4th to Imperial Guard.

I don't think I'll have time for reports on this one, but if anyone wants to ask me any questions about any of the match-ups they can ask away.