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DakotaBlue wrote:
I can change the lists for every match, so I can afford building an anti-daemon list.

In any case, points are better spent elsewhere other than the psilencer.

It doesn't give out 3+ cover. There are very explicit rules on how it works. It is basically open terrain, meaning you don't get any cover from it. However, it does give a 4+ Inv if you put it in shielded mode.

That's the top of it though, what if you were getting cover from the legs and struts underneath?

Anywayas, not many contributions to this just yet as people just seem unsure here:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/484127.page

 sudojoe wrote:

It doesn't give out 3+ cover. There are very explicit rules on how it works. It is basically open terrain, meaning you don't get any cover from it. However, it does give a 4+ Inv if you put it in shielded mode.

That's the top of it though, what if you were getting cover from the legs and struts underneath?

Anywayas, not many contributions to this just yet as people just seem unsure here:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/484127.page

The problem here is that the skyshield, ADL, bastion and fortress all fall under the heading of Fortifications. Also, the "fortification" on p.18 is never clearly defined. What exactly makes it a fortification? Does that mean all the above terrain give you 3+? I would say that would be a bit of a stretch. You really have to talk to your opponent about how to play the skyshield as it is somewhat vague. A decent compromise would be to give it a 4+ cover just like aegis, battlements and walls and barricades.

Anyways, that is my intepretation. Whenever a rule is murky, I tend to go with the more conservative intepretation or the intepretation that gives the least advantage.

I'm thinking I'll just leave the 3+ covers debate for another day. Mabye it'll be more relivant for vehicles I dunno lol.

Anyways, after the Nid player quit for necrons in my local area, there's no one playing nids anymore and there seems to be a nice resurgance of nid psyker spam that's definately a unique playstyle.

I'm debating what in the GK's builds would be good vs this kind of playstyle and also target priorities.

iron arm flygrants seems like a tough nut to crack and tyvergons spawning tons of stuff makes it hard for gunlines to survive.

Being flying, our mindstrike missles can't target the nid fliers until they are grounded. Shadows in the warp is really annoying to try and force weapon. I'm almost thinking some brotherhood banner regular terminators might be useful or maybe justicar thawn to get up in there?

While GK's passive defense vs psykers is good, it doesn't stop all the strong nid buffs like warpspeed. Looking for some more expert opinions on the new psyker nids vs GK's matchups.

I don't have much experience with this in 6th so looking at other folks to comment if they want to.

So just back from Gaelcon, one of the big two in Ireland so to speak. Changed up my list a little bit, getting one Teleporter and two Inquisitors in exchange for Coteaz and two Rhinos. And honestly, I missed neither. I think foot works fine in 6th thankfully, and that's something I'll be looking into for Moocon in 3wks. The Terminator Inquisitor with the Psycannon was a boss, only dying one and killing his own weight in enemies thanks to relentless cannon shots, often enough precision.

One dice roll basically cost me 2nd place on the last game, as a Cryptek got back up for the 6th time in 3 turns to contest the only objective I had otherwise guaranteed (the other two were in the thick of the battle where we were fighting for it all). Managed 8th instead, though the field was big enough that I won't complain about it. Flyers didn't take the helm too much as people didn't go overboard on them. There were only 2 full on Cron Air lists, though there was a lot of triple Vendetta around. Guard and Orks were the allies of choice it seemed.

And what I really learned, is Necrons are stupid. In my opinion Crypteks should not have Ever Living, especially when you look at stuff like a unit with 2 Chronos in there with two Overlords where those Chronos use their own re-roll on their own Ever Living roll. It's really silly.

I'll be putting reports up as soon as I get the chance.

Psychic nids are tough for alll MEQs without active psychic defense. Unfortunately even psycannons have a tough time with t8-9 mcs. The best thing to do would probably be massed psycannons with some purifier backup to deal with gargoyles and large gaunt squads. Flying mc's die easily to grounding checks and gk have quantity of fire to force plenty.

 sudojoe wrote:
I'm thinking I'll just leave the 3+ covers debate for another day. Mabye it'll be more relivant for vehicles I dunno lol.

Anyways, after the Nid player quit for necrons in my local area, there's no one playing nids anymore and there seems to be a nice resurgance of nid psyker spam that's definately a unique playstyle.

I'm debating what in the GK's builds would be good vs this kind of playstyle and also target priorities.

iron arm flygrants seems like a tough nut to crack and tyvergons spawning tons of stuff makes it hard for gunlines to survive.

Being flying, our mindstrike missles can't target the nid fliers until they are grounded. Shadows in the warp is really annoying to try and force weapon. I'm almost thinking some brotherhood banner regular terminators might be useful or maybe justicar thawn to get up in there?

While GK's passive defense vs psykers is good, it doesn't stop all the strong nid buffs like warpspeed. Looking for some more expert opinions on the new psyker nids vs GK's matchups.

I don't have much experience with this in 6th so looking at other folks to comment if they want to.

Unfortunately, there are no easy answers for the new psychic nids. You just need to pour a lot of firepower into them and make sure you are focusing on the right units. Try to take out the flyrant and any tervigons first. Those IMO are the most important targets. It is actually fairly easy to ground a flyrant. I also normally bring warding staves in my Purifier or paladin armies to try to hold these monsters in combat. The warding staves will give you a chance to drag the combat out, which is a good thing against an uber-enemy unit. As for the banner, I always bring them in my paladin-star Draigowing armies. 1 is all you really need and then you can walk through almost any tyranid MC like a knife through butter (well, except for the Swarmlord). But the +1A is usually more useful against the majority of the other armies out there.

There is no shortcut against the new nids. It is a battle of attrition. Just make sure your guns will out-shoot tyranid resiliency.

Flying Nids are easy enough to bring down.


Brotherhood Banner terminator squads are a good counter to Lash Whips and SitW. have sword models in BtB with the Tyrant, and Halberd dudes behind. The Halberds don't get their I reduced and you only need one wound to instapop the Tyrant as the Banner bypasses the 3D6 psychic test.

Try to take out the flyrant and any tervigons first. Those IMO are the most important targets.

I'm just concerned as I look, it's really hard to decide what to target when they saturate your front with like 3 of the above in you face by turn 1.5 especially with warp speed and normal edge deployments. Oh and anywhere between 6 to 20 something little guys ready to munch face next turn.

If you had to pick, what would you prioritze? The T9 guy or the spawners?

The Tervigons definitely. In my expereince so far the Flyrant doesn't just barrel into you as he is well aware GK have enough firepower to ground him, so usually my Raven can deal with him in turn 2.

Hey guys,
I'm considering a GK Strike Squad Spam.

How would I best do this?? Just put full Strike Squads in Rhino's, or 5-men squads in Razbacks?

Also, what do you think would be the best HQ choice for them?

As many 10 man squads as you can take with 2 psycannons and psybolts. Rhinos are optional. maybe give half the squads a Rhino.

HQ should be a Divination Librarian or 2. Get those awsome rerolls on your shooting.

It is possible to win a daemon list in turn 1 just by the GKSS psychic power?

Yes, its also a dick move and an army focusing on that is not a good competitive army.

 Grey Templar wrote:
As many 10 man squads as you can take with 2 psycannons and psybolts. Rhinos are optional. maybe give half the squads a Rhino.

HQ should be a Divination Librarian or 2. Get those awsome rerolls on your shooting.

So 10-men squads added with Dreadknights or Psydreads?
And then the Libby (as getting 2 in 1850 is a bit of a stretch).

Actually, how many powers can the Libby roll? 2 (as his Mastery Level), or 1 per power you bought him? And if you just roll the 2, are excess powers lost or do you keep them?
I was actually thinking of Coteaz. Or is the Libby better?

the Librarian has whatever powers he purchases from the GK codex, OR he can swap all the powers he has(except for HH) for a number of rulebook powers equal to his mastery level.

The nice thing is you do that just before the game starts.

So you can buy GK powers, look at the games situation, and then decide to swap out for powers. It gives you flexability because GK powers are pretty good, and cheap.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Yes, its also a dick move and an army focusing on that is not a good competitive army.

Take in account that it's a league where I know the army of my opponent, as he knows mine, and I can change lists for every match, and also the price is 350€ for the winner of the league. I don't mind being a dick

The strategy is 3 GKSS with 3 rhinos, divided in combat squad, with a grandmaster giving them infiltration and 3 dreads just for if some daemon take ground, right?

 Grey Templar wrote:
As many 10 man squads as you can take with 2 psycannons and psybolts. Rhinos are optional. maybe give half the squads a Rhino.

HQ should be a Divination Librarian or 2. Get those awsome rerolls on your shooting.

I'll see you that and raise you this:

2000 points

OM Inquisitor, Psyker (Prescience), Psycannon
OM Inquisitor, Psyker (Prescience), Psycannon
OM Inquisitor, Psyker (Prescience), Psycannon
OM Inquisitor, Psyker (Prescience), Psycannon

5 servo skulls tossed in there somewhere

5x PSYKERS, Rhino
5x PSYKERS, Rhino
(thanks for pointing out that Mystics aren't Psykers, Goddess-Mimicry )

Strike Squad, 2 psycannons, psybolt ammo
Strike Squad, 2 psycannons, psybolt ammo
Strike Squad, 2 psycannons, psybolt ammo
Strike Squad, 2 psycannons, psybolt ammo

Psyfleman Dreadnought
Psyfleman Dreadnought
Psyfleman Dreadnought


Prescience for all four strike squads, and nothing but S5 (or better) shooting. The mystics are for cheap S7 AP2 blasts, yes I know they might die, no, I don't care. This is all I do now.

yeah, but we're only playing 1850 around here (as that's what the tournaments are)

 Grey Templar wrote:
Yes, its also a dick move and an army focusing on that is not a good competitive army.

And yet you just suggested it to a guy; people say crap like this all the time as Warp Quake is the only good thing about Strike Squads. And no, it isn't a dick move, it's doing what your army does in the plain letter of the rules with no shenanigans whatsoever.

BTW daedalus, where did you get the idea that Mystics have Plasma Cannons?

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
Yes, its also a dick move and an army focusing on that is not a good competitive army.

And yet you just suggested it to a guy; people say crap like this all the time as Warp Quake is the only good thing about Strike Squads. And no, it isn't a dick move, it's doing what your army does in the plain letter of the rules with no shenanigans whatsoever.

BTW daedalus, where did you get the idea that Mystics have Plasma Cannons?

I think its something to do with the more mystics your S raises by 1 per mystic and ap decrease by 1 per mystic.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Hi, guys how sould you deal with a FMC demon list? Currently its the best army in my local GW and I am going there soon so I might have to fight him, will the old purifers 6x 5man 2psycannon in rhino 3x dread autocannon work well against:

1x fate
1x blood thirster
2x demon prince
2x 5man plague bearers

Maybe something else its a 1750 list I only heard it from my friend.

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:

BTW daedalus, where did you get the idea that Mystics have Plasma Cannons?

Bah, that's what I get for working when I should be listbuilding! Replace mystics with psykers.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Yes, its also a dick move and an army focusing on that is not a good competitive army.

It also doesn't work that well with just strike spam. You can't get enough board coverage and frankly most competitive daemons lists now are very fast. I play daemons too and if someone did that, I'd be fine with it honestly as I got pretty fast FMC's, jump troop flamers, and jetbike screamers now-a-days. I don't mind behing in the back side of things.

It does get impossibly however if you throw some interceptors. You just won't get enough coverage with foot strikes.


As to how to beat FMC daemons flying circus, I'd probably be quite selective with target priority and get them flamers down asap, then probably any FMC's still around as they are usually just one model, often without grenades and at most can vector strike just a few guys. If they have screamers, they can be tough too. Remember you have perferred enemy with shooting at baseline. Use them rerolls. If you got a staff or something in a squad, tarpit that greater daemon if they rush you. storm ravens as dedicated anti-tank can also manuver to get side shots on them daemon engies. Also, play to the objectives. That's the biggest key. FMC often lack troops and daemon troops are pretty fragile now no matter the build. Even plagues are weaker. Take out his troops after flamers if you don't care about the FMC's (i.e. tarpitted)

Fateweaver is probably in there too, if so, I'd still take flamers down first unless they are getting their 4+ reroll by being next to fate and just gun fateweaver down with volume of fire. Even with a rerollable 3++, he'll still fail something eventually. (longest personal streak I had was 32 saves made but I then failed a ld check and died on the 33rd hit )

I'm planning a 3 GKSS squad, combat squad them and cover the most I can of a place with ruins, and let some open space avaible to land, as I can't get every piece of terrain with the GKSS thing, getting 3 dreadnoughts and coteaz near the place I let free for landing, and see what happens next.

His troops will land in only a place, and the dreadnoughts/coteaz freeshot, and GKSS shots in my turn could get rid of almost everything, if not letting them obliterated.

Maybe I swap a GKSS for a Interceptor squad, so I can cover more terrain, as Sudojoe said.

2 gkss, 2 gkss in a rhino each, 2 interceptor squad should cover an inmense terrain.

sudojoe wrote:You just won't get enough coverage with foot strikes.

36" from your deployment zone to the board edge. 6" move, average 4" run, 12" area of effect. Only 14" safe to the other side. If they scatter average is 7" which is very likely into Warp Quake or off the board, especially with bigger units. Shunting a Dreadknight over can also block up some space to dick sideways scattering. Rhinos can get your guys further across the board as well, with a pivot at the start for 2", 6" move, 6" disembark, and average 4" run, for a possible 18" move in, leaving only a 6" safe zone for the Daemons on the other side. BTW, not this all assumes you leave some dudes behind.

Also remember that the main hitters of the Daemon army these days, Flamers, need to drop close to work. If they can't do this then they have to last a turn of mass PE shooting before they can take effect. Screamers though can easily drop miles away and still kill some dudes thanks to Turbo Boost.

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:
The Tervigons definitely. In my expereince so far the Flyrant doesn't just barrel into you as he is well aware GK have enough firepower to ground him, so usually my Raven can deal with him in turn 2.

so what's the next target after the Tervigons? I'd imagine most of my gunline or at least part of it would be fighting the 'gaunts. The hive guards? any mawlocks? the zoies? I'm really having a hard time gauging the threat priority in these kinds of lists.

DakotaBlue wrote:
It is possible to win a daemon list in turn 1 just by the GKSS psychic power?

With only Strikes? No, it isn't possible. To cover the whole board with Warp Quake, you also need at least 3 Interceptor squads that shunt into enemy deployment zone turn 1. It also requires you to have the first turn and succeed in 6 Psychic tests with LD 9 each turn.
And it also requires that your gaming group allows you to chain "Misplaced" mishaps (ie. that when unit gets "Misplaced" result in mishap table and you place it within Warp Quake zone, it mishaps again).

Luide wrote:

DakotaBlue wrote:
It is possible to win a daemon list in turn 1 just by the GKSS psychic power?

With only Strikes? No, it isn't possible. To cover the whole board with Warp Quake, you also need at least 3 Interceptor squads that shunt into enemy deployment zone turn 1. It also requires you to have the first turn and succeed in 6 Psychic tests with LD 9 each turn.
And it also requires that your gaming group allows you to chain "Misplaced" mishaps (ie. that when unit gets "Misplaced" result in mishap table and you place it within Warp Quake zone, it mishaps again).

You don't need to cover the board with Warp Quake the make it possible. Hell it's possible for any army to do it if the Daemon players luck is lousy enough.

I think you are mistaking the word possible for probable here.

So someone asked about a Grey Knight Paladin list in the Army List subsection of the forum and someone else responded with these insights regarding equipping Paladins:

2) you will not want that many halberds. Most weapons that ignore your armor save will be striking at INT 1 (maybe 2). You will hit first with swords against anything that ignores your save. Against things that ignore your save, the sword gives you a 4++ save in combat, which is much more reliable than the 5++. Basically, the Halberd is better against things you are not afraid of (power swords) but the sword is better against things you are afraid of (power Fists).

A couple halberds would not be a bad idea, but I would not take all halberds.

A single warding stave might also be very useful in that regard, with the new way wounds are allocated. You can basically put all of the powerfist wounds onto the warding stave guy.

Does everyone concur with his/her opinion?

This is a completely random , but i thought this would be a good place to post this question. I have been considering grey knights for some time, but don't own any models, furthermore i have started to get to grips with 6th edition. So i was wondering, does a Nemesis warding stave give you your 2+ inv for over-watch, don't have my rule-book with me, but I think that it is part of the assault phase?