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Here is a campaign list i 'm playing right now and overall is working well with various opponents... I tried to make an all around list cause in the campaign i have many different factions to compete against... So far it works well and the only major problem is against lists with 2-3 helldrakes (with flamer) but the only solution i guess to that is putting a Stormraven in place of the land raider.

HQ
Brotherhood Champion (empyrean brain mines)

Troops
Grey Knight Strike Squad (Justicar with Halberd - 2x Psycannons - Psy Ammu)
Grey Knight Strike Squad (Justicar with Halberd - 2x Psycannons - Psy Ammu)

Elites
Purifiers (6x Halberds - 4x Incinerators)
Vindicare Assassin

Heavy
Land Raider Redeemer (Multimelta - searchlight)
Dreadnought (2x TL Autocannon - psy ammu - searchlight)
Dreadknight (Heavy Incinerator - Greatsword - Teleporter)

Buildings
Aegis Defense Line (quad gun)


Notes
Land Raider has the Purifiers and Brotherhood Champion.
Dreadknight usually kills a whole unit of troops in 2 turns leaving it free to assault again in its next turn (assaulting always with hammer of wrath).
Vindicare assassin is the best all around solution for (almost) everything.
In games with many objectives GKSS can be divided in combat squads.
Dreadnought behind aegis is sweet with its S8 weapons (4+ to save the glancing and penetration wounds).

Anyway, any suggestion i am happy to hear!

Why do you want a brotherhood champion?
He has only 1 wound, limited physic ability as he doesn't have access to divination. His main advantage is his dueling ability but even that has it's limits due to his 1 wound.

For the same points i'd recommend Coteaz who is an amazing psyker when you take 2 divination powers, he helps seize the initiative. For instance, you can put him in a GKSS and make everyone's guns twin-linked plus another divination power.
Or for 110 points I'd also recommend an Ordo maleus Inquistor with Terminator armor, psycannon, psyker level 1 (divination) and a force sword.

They don't have 4 toughness and Strength but otherwise they are both great force multipliers with divination and have good ranged attacks.

Just my opinion, but i thought it might give you some ideas.

Agree, for 100 points Coteaz seems a much better option, the psychic buffs are so much better than what the champion can do.

You could also save points by swapping the quad gun for the lascannon, put both Coteaz and the vindicare in base with it, so you can either shoot it with BS8 and pick your target with no los, or coteaz can shoot it twice at reserves coming within 12 inch.

I used a land raider crusader the other day with my paladins playing draigowing for the first time, I actually won as my opponent could ne crack the raider before Draigo and company charged out and mopped up everything in cc, however in your list, I think a second dreadknight would be better.

Coteaz is another good solution i admit. I play him a lot and the 2 divination spells are awesome.

Brotherhood Champion is a cc specialist. His squad reroll to hit on their assault and he always rerolls his to wound without psychics and stuff... He is an awesome character killer with his rapier strike and he can be invulnerable also to deadly foes since he has 2+rerollable to save and 3+rerollable invu in cc if you just want to live when others charge you!! He can lock a CC squad always forever! And i love the chance of 3+ to remove as casualty any IC you have in base contact when nad if you die.

@tuiman can you explain me how you believe coteaz could use the quad gun a second time with his ability i've been expecting you? One time you shoot with the interceptor rule of quad gun. Are you sure you can shoot again in the same phase with i've been expecting you rule?

 sudojoe wrote:

Looked at the report JY2, nicely done! However, I kept scratching my head at the way that gk guy played it and really agree with the bottom comment here that was on your thread too.

It is killing me how poorly your opponent opted to play his Dreadknights in this one. There was no reason at all with a Torrent weapon to get in those ruins - get behind them.

Also, Shunt all 3 Dreadknights at once - that will burn out a huge chunk of the zombie unit which protects the Dreadknights from a charge with the Abaddon blob - and provides a huge counter assault threat to finish them off. Finally, Mordrak does not scatter, he should have been behind the Shunted Dreadknights turn 1 and then piled into a brutal combat Turn 2...

I've seen zombie lists with Typhys/oblits and hellturkies before too and the biggest threats are really the oblits and knowing the chaos powers. Generally these lists are really slow with just 1-2 fast movers to get around like spawn and flyer and generally best faught with focused firing top priority units like the oblits. After those are done, then can work on the spawn unless they get close and helldrakes when it shows up and other targets are dealt with.

While oblits are tough, especially nurge ones, they still only really have a 5+ cover most of the time and no invul. While it will take quite a bit of shooting, plasma cannons still do well vs them or weight of fire to get past the 2+ and wounds. IG arty like medusa seige guns are brutal vs them but in a fight like the one this game had, charging them with a DK would be the best option.

While it certainly looks like he tried a refused flank, he was not really refusing as much as calypso or I probably would have either. He's not screening his guys properly and not using your army to block for his units. Zombie list mobility issues should have been better used. Stay out of 12' double tap plasma and chaos wind range FFS is what I kept thinking to myself.

I'm gonna have to go put it up again in big bold letters that coteaz can't use his IBEY inside a ride. That's been that way since they changed mind in the macine back in 5th. I'm surprised people are still doing it the old way.

Definately a fun game. I think you just out played him Jy2. Good job! Come back to GK after the BAO, I'm interested to see what you end up with for purifiers or if it's gonna be kind of like what I'm doing with them now. I've always had a soft spot for them but really just using as elites for the most part now.

I think the main thing is that I am more sneaky than he is.

Actually, I was prepared for if he had overloaded 1 side, because that would probably be what I would do as well. No matter what he did, I would have tied him up with zombies to buy time for my characters (or just Abaddon) to get into the action. Then my oblits would have just shot up his vechicles to demech his troops and also for First Blood. In any case, no matter what he did (besides to stay back and shoot), I was ready for him if he were to play aggressively.

Yeah, after the BAO, I am definitely giving my purifiers a second look.

 Cougar wrote:
@tuiman can you explain me how you believe coteaz could use the quad gun a second time with his ability i've been expecting you? One time you shoot with the interceptor rule of quad gun. Are you sure you can shoot again in the same phase with i've been expecting you rule?

Actually, it's the other way around. First, you shoot with IBEY. And you can do it as many times as units come from reserves within 12" of him. Then, at the end of the (opponents) movement phase, you may use Interceptor to shoot at any unit that has arrived from reserves. Funnily enough, if Coteaz' unit is charged, he may even use that Quad gun for overwatch, even if he used the Interceptor special rule.

Luide wrote:

 Cougar wrote:
@tuiman can you explain me how you believe coteaz could use the quad gun a second time with his ability i've been expecting you? One time you shoot with the interceptor rule of quad gun. Are you sure you can shoot again in the same phase with i've been expecting you rule?

Actually, it's the other way around. First, you shoot with IBEY. And you can do it as many times as units come from reserves within 12" of him. Then, at the end of the (opponents) movement phase, you may use Interceptor to shoot at any unit that has arrived from reserves. Funnily enough, if Coteaz' unit is charged, he may even use that Quad gun for overwatch, even if he used the Interceptor special rule.

Pretty much this, Coteaz and a well kitted out henchman group is deadly with a quadgun.

Cougar: your list overall should play pretty well but just be careful with your troops as they are somewhat fragile with just power armor and you only got 20 bodies. Either coteaz would be a fine 100 points to replace the brother champ or just keep the brother champ with the purifiers in the land raider as a "death star unit" It's still possible to run them fairly effectively.

I'm not entirely sold on the incinerators as I feel your list will need more psycannons but if using as assault, maybe go 2x incinerators and 2 psycannons just for points? In some sort of assault unit like that, I'd have at least 1 hammer just cause you will run into all sorts of stuff that may need smashing.

While the redeemer is kind of fun, I think the crusader with possible psybolts will be a better deal as you don't really need to flame things the assault unit is going to charge anyway. Hordes are handled by the purifiers. The marines are handled by the AP3 halberds. You don't fare well vs terminators with purifiers but some rapid fire bolters with weight of fire will trim down a few terminators before you have to tangle with them. Also a crusader can potentially down fliers fairly well as long as it's not the AV 12 variety and in the current config, you don't have a ton of anti-air so a crusader may help with that a little bit.

To get the points for all of this, I'd consider swapping out the great sword on the DK and perhaps go with lascannon instead of the quad gun? I'd almost use some sort of combat squad with a bastion with some shooty squad of strikes on top firing psycannons and lascannon and the other half just camping an objective.

----------------------------------

On the flip side of things, In an effort to deal with noise marines and helldrakes spam that I'm anticipating in the very near future, I'm thinking of brining back good old Draigo.

Yep, you heard me, bringing back the paladins in this crazy str 8 ignoring covering lots of plasma and fliers world of ours.

My thinking is a bit different than before and using Draigo completely differently and I've done in the past. Essentially he's just there to be a giant bullet sink kind of like Abbadon does in some other lists (cough Jy2) and also to get me 55 point scoring units. solo paladins who's job is to simply camp behind LOS as much as possible.

The tripple henchmen have traditionally been what I've used and going from something like 12 points to 55 points may seem like alot but I'm also moving into something like a hybrid mech list again. People are very used to using cheap to counter cheap and flamers/noise marines/or just MSU bolters are making a mockery of my small squads.

A paladin essentially ignores alot of this and with some decent LOS terrain, you can hide 1 man units pretty well at least locally here anyway. Or just use a bastion if needed. It takes alot more than 5 guys with bolters to take out a paladin. Even 3 man plasma guns won't necessarily take out a paladin unless you get into rapid fire range. Paladins will also ignore the AP3 noise marines as well as helldrakes along with longer range autocannon fires. Will be a big rougher vs plasma cannons but few of those are mobile enough to trap my one man squad from moving elsewhere to hopefully get out of range. Eldar lances will still be a pain but I'm hopeful the mech/long range firepower of my MSU units will take them down. while a solo paladin won't really hold up vs say a necron destroyer lord + wraiths in your face by turn 2 and in those cases, 2-3 henchmen are much better throw away units, I often find I can deal with the death star well enough by focus firing on them. I end up losing the objectives game later on cause the damn night scythes show up and instant gib by 3 man squads trying to get out of LOS but often have no way to truely hide from fliers. With all the tesla shots, they die pretty fast. Now doomscythe and the death ray will still fry a paladin, I can still try to make a 4+ cover usually while my henchmen usuaully gets hit with 2 str 10 and then 4 more str 7 tesla shots that they don't really survive well even going to ground. Heck, the paladin can go to ground too so it's 3+ cover all around but 2+ armor vs 3+ cover from the teslas make a big difference.

What do you guys think? Essentially a coteaz list but with draigo replacing a DK and some 1-3 solo paladins to hold down objectives. Backbone as a shooty army with chimeras/razorbacks along with DK+auto dread (which can now be scoring as well) + storm raven for other heavy hitters. Draigo is not quite the same as a DK of course but he is still a nice threat vs most things other than other terminators which I plan to handle with plasma servitors and plasma henchmen along with some psycannon spam with purifiers in a chimera.

Excuse me for not reading the whole 57 pages so it might be there, but can techmarine's deep strike? The first post talks about deepstriking him with mordrak but to my knowledge techmarines cant deepstrike.

Kind of agree about draigo, in my local group we have a chaos player who has finally picked up his first hell drake, and is probably going to get two (who can blame him). So I have switched to a draigo list with 5 paladins, 2 solodins, coteaz, vindicare, and then strikes/henchman support, raven and dreadknight.

It works much better as all the AP# he has just bounces of the paladin armour, he even ran two fiends with triple plasma, but with appropriate spacing i manged to only take a few wounds on draigo before killing them both.

If the meta does shift to more chaos players and triple hell turkys, then I think a switch back to draigo and co might not be such a bad move, otherwise just go back to full henchman spam with so many redundant bodies you dont mind losing a few.

 pizzaguardian wrote:
Excuse me for not reading the whole 57 pages so it might be there, but can techmarine's deep strike? The first post talks about deepstriking him with mordrak but to my knowledge techmarines cant deepstrike.

you are correct! I typoed techmarine when I was thinking librarian XD The error has been corrected.

 tuiman wrote:
The whole force weapon thing just made my day, also the vinicare ruling, picked one up the other day for $3 not thinking I would use it all the time, not any more

Were there changes to force weapons? What were they? I flipped through the FAQs (well, not really flipped, given that it's a PDF, but you're picking up what I'm putting down) but I didn't see any FW changes.

You cant take feel no pain against them, there was a huge discussion about it here. People were saying you could as the original wound was not an instant death wound until the weapon has been activated.

I came up with an "interesting solution to noise marines" but unfortunately doesn't cover up for the helldrake but anyways, it's essentially 2 squads of DCA + crusaders using a land raider crusader as an assault bus. This was also with a grand master that gave both things scout move.

Turn one, the first squad in the land raider moves up and pop smoke/snap fires things or otherwise seek cover and potential charge targets (driving towards them)

the 2nd squad runs right behind the land raider and due to mass of the damn thing, will usually be out of LOS with a decent run move.

Turn 2, the 1st DCA squad assaults out of the land raider, and then the 2nd squad gets onboard from the back/side doors.

Turn 3, the 2nd DCA squad assaults out of the land raider again hopefully surviving meltas/lascannons while the 1st squad's remains (it was vs MSU so they usually just straight up won combat and got shot up a bit). Tried to get back onboard again.

Probably not gonna be all that effective vs faster armies but it was a nice change of pace from my regular gun lines play.

In three days i will play a match of 2000pts with a Dark Angel player. Any recommendations?

 Cougar wrote:
In three days i will play a match of 2000pts with a Dark Angel player. Any recommendations?

Coteaz and strike squads, good chance or going first and create a warp quake bubble to prevent the deathwing. It really depends on what he brings, the old psyfleman could be great if he takes lots of speeders, flyers etc.

Stormraven could be very usefull as his flyers are not as good, and the melta would be very helpfull if he takes raiders.

Do you know what sort of stuff he would bring? The DA codex has so much variety its hard to make a list for it.

Not really... because i know personally him, he will bring the most cheezy stuff... i expect deathwing first round via deep strike and ravenwing maybe....

I would assume deathwing as its the most common, so you need to bring lots of ap2 guns, which unfortunately, gk dont have a lot of.

A good option would be an inquisitor with the upgrade to give him powers, and give him prescience from divination. Put him in a squad with 3 plasma cannon servitors, 3 plasma gun acolytes, and then 5 standard bolter acolytes for meatsheild. This whole unit is only 177 points including the inquisitor, bit puts out 3 plasma shots, 3 plasma blasts, and 4 bolter shots a turn,and all twin-linked!!!

Even better put coteaz in the unit and you can shoot the terminators as soon as they come in from reserve. Coupled with a few 10 man strike squads with warp quake would make a good defense base against the deathwing.

what about 3xDreadknights ?

Could i get your opinions on my 1500 and 1750 list? Thanks

Squad 1
110 1 inquistor w terminator armor, psycannon, hammer and 1 divination
225 5 Terminators with psy cannon

Squad 2
100 1 Coteaz with 2 Divination
240 10 man GKSS with 2 psycannons and psybolt

Squad 3
80 8 bolter acolytes and 4 psykers

Fast Attack
205 Stormraven w TL LC and TL MM
150 Interceptor Squad with incenarator

Back Line
270 2 Psyriflemen
20 5 warrior acoltyes maning quad
100 Aegis with quadgun

Total
1500

For 1750 points i'll add
50pts 10 bolter acoyltes
200pts Dreadknight with Incinerator and Heavy Psycannon

Heres what ive been thinking after i got Stomped by this list with my nids

HQ
Cotez
Libarian
-Shrouding
-Santuary
-Quick silver
-flamer templete 1Cotez


Troops
5
Razorbacks
Heavybolter
Pysbolt
3 warrior accoyleres

8
Strike squad
1 pyscannon

10 Purifers
4 psycannons
2 hammers rest halberds

Stormraven
Heavybolter
hurricane bolters
assault cannon
Pysbolt

2
Autocannon
Dreadnoughts

Vindicare assassin

Defense line Quad Gun
This is what i use for my 1850 list

Park Everything Behind the line and give everything a 3 Plus cover sav e thats to the shrouding.

I'm wondering if I could get any input on my list:


HQ:
Coteaz
Crowe
---250

Troops:
10 Purifiers
+9 Halberds
+KotF - MC Halberd, Digital Weapons
+Psybolt
---290

10 Purifiers
+9 Halberds
+KotF - MC Halberd, Digital Weapons
+Psybolt
---290

Henchman
+4 Crusaders
+7 Death Cult Assassins
---165

Henchman
+7 Psykers
_Chimera w/ Multi-laser, HB
---125

Fast Attack:
Stormraven
+Psybolt
+TL MM
---225

LRC
+Psybolt
---260

LRR
+Psybolt
---250

Crowe wanders, Purifiers are in LRR and Stormraven, C+DCA henchman unit are in the LRC with Coteaz, and the Psykers roll around blasting things, assuming they don't kill themselves. Is there a better way to spend those 125 points? I could do Draigowing with Dreadknights and make the DKs scoring, since they have 4 S10 AP2 attacks with the sword (which I like). I also like the Purifiers, though.

Drop the psybolt on the raven, I prefer to keep it cheap, melta and lascannon.

I dont really like purifier lists in 6th tbh Crowe give up warlord kill to easy, and you probably need transports to make them work, but now you cant score, can charge after getting out, and are easier to kill.

Also where are the psycannons?!!

 tuiman wrote:
Drop the psybolt on the raven, I prefer to keep it cheap, melta and lascannon.

I dont really like purifier lists in 6th tbh Crowe give up warlord kill to easy, and you probably need transports to make them work, but now you cant score, can charge after getting out, and are easier to kill.

Also where are the psycannons?!!

The Psycannons are the Assault Cannons with Psybolt. On the SR I hope it helps with dealing with enemy fliers, and the two on the LR's will help eat away at any ground forces. Also, I think crowe will definitely survive any challenge he enters, but against whole units, (or plasma weapons), nicht so gut.

Problem with crowe is where are you going to put him, just hanging around leave him open to being shot to death, he would have to footslog without his own ride, and a good opponent can just ignore him, or shoot him. I cant think of many games that he manages to survive.

Just my 2 cents.

 tuiman wrote:
Problem with crowe is where are you going to put him, just hanging around leave him open to being shot to death, he would have to footslog without his own ride, and a good opponent can just ignore him, or shoot him. I cant think of many games that he manages to survive.

Just my 2 cents.

I've had a game where I forgot to deploy him from reserves as he was cleverly hidden behind a Diet Coke Can. (he was supposed to be comming in with the storm raven as a passenger and while I played the storm raven as my typical gun boat, I forgot he was supposed to be inside the thing until I got thirsty around turn 6 and picked up the drink.) Does that count as surviving?

While I like the LRR I just don't see it as effective as it should be. Crusaders are much better for 10 more points unfortunately now that you get so snap fire so much stuff. Str 5 twin linked hurricane bolters are still pretty good and can glance fliers occassionally even. I'd probably find the points by dropping digital weapons or master crafted halberds for my purifiers. A DK would be a pretty good asset if you find another way of moving your other assault squad of purifiers around. Maybe just have them foot slog it behind the Land raider for LOS blocking? They can always embark the turn the current unit disembarks to assault something and then charge out of it next turn gaining some movement through pivoting of the land raider (if it survives).

Ok, so I have devised a new list with Draigo and a DK. Check it out:

Coteaz
Draigo
---375

Vindicare Assassin
---145

6 Paladins
+ 1 MC NDH
+ 3 Halberd
+ 2 Sword
+ 2 Psycannons
---375

Henchman
+ 4 Crusaders
+ 8 DCAs
---180

Henchman
+ 4 Crusaders
+ 8 DCAs
---180

Stormraven
+Psybolt
+TL MM
---225

LRC
+Psybolt
---260

Dreadknight
+Personal teleporter
+Sword
+Heavy Incinerator
---260

I'd then use GS to make the DK scoring, since it's the only one that can be targeted.

I'd maybe make one of the paladins into a solo one man unit to give you some more tacitcal flexibility when you need to cap some objectives (especially as your DCA/crusaders will likely be pretty depleted after killing other units and getting shot at alot since they are still somewhat fragile and are your scoring units.

With this kind of list you invariably have to try to roll up a flank. It'd work decent vs stuff like hordes of orks and needs some decent terrain cover. If exposed to fast hard hitters that have long range like Tau or lance spam eldar/dark eldar, this kind of list would suffer a bit. VS IG parking lots it'd be how well you can stay out of LOS for the most part. Not sure the vindicare will be doing much as he's almost going to be the biggest target most of the enemy long range shooting or other threats for the first turn or 2.

You guys are in for a treat of a battle report. Just got a game in against Blackmoor. Blackmoor is a very, very good GK player and successful tournament player as well. He got 3rd place at the Bay Area Open GT in both 2012 and 2011. He also got 2nd in Comikaze last year and 5th in Nova (out of 204!).

I brough my tyranids. He brought the evolution of his Draigowing GK's, only now he's running Coteaz instead. His 1750 List:


Coteaz
Grandmaster - Psycannon

10x Paladins - 4x Psycannons, Banner, Stave, Hammers & Halberds

10x Strikers - 2x Psycannons, Psybolt
10x Strikers - 2x Psycannons, Psybolt

Psyfleman Dread
Psyfleman Dread


Check out my report in the Batreps forum coming soon!

Cant be draigowing, no draigo :p

Interesting list, and if anyone knows how to play gk its blackmoor, cant wait to see