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Oh lawdy, the Wraithknight made some serious murder time fun time against tyranids tonight. So much suncannon death.

Also one of my Dreadknights was charged by like 15 outflanking genestealers, took 1 wound on the first assault and then proceeded to slowly kill the entire squad over the course of the game.

Used some Warp Spiders and Dire Avengers tonight too, was pleasantly surprised.

Had a thought (probably something I've read here before but forgot about lol). Anyway,

What do you guys think about having smaller sized henchmen units in chimeras? The goal would be to have three special weapons and a few other guys, and that's it. No 12 man squad (like IG is forced to do). The advantage of this is how cheap it is. Having 3 or 4 (or more?) of these as troops frees up a lot of points for scary stuff.

Something like 3 plasma acolytes, 3 bolter acolytes, chimera.

This sort of thing viable in 6th?

Sure it is.
You can even have just 3 acolytes with special weapons in a chimera/razorback/rhino for cheaper cost.

At the moment i am trying to work a good Alpha Strike GK list without allies (hard) and it is as follows (2k pts)

Coteaz
Mordrak+5 Knights
3*DK with teleporter and heavy incinerator
2*10Interceptor with 2psycanon and psyamo
3* 3acolytes in razorback with psyamo

Only issue is the lack of scoring units (i would keep them in reserve).
Or i could take out Coteaz and the acolytes and take 2*6 GKSS with psycanon (in reserve as well)

 daedalus-templarius wrote:
Also one of my Dreadknights was charged by like 15 outflanking genestealers, took 1 wound on the first assault and then proceeded to slowly kill the entire squad over the course of the game.

How did he charge from Outflank?

Super Newb wrote:
What do you guys think about having smaller sized henchmen units in chimeras? The goal would be to have three special weapons and a few other guys, and that's it. No 12 man squad (like IG is forced to do).

Guard aren't forced into having 12 man squads at all. Vets go at 10 men, and Special Weapon Squads go at 6.

Is 3 special weapon acolytes in a razorback a good idea? Their guns don't work until they get out. After they get out, they'll be shot dead.

I figured a chimera would be better since they could shoot form inside and the chimera still has some decent guns itself.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:
Guard aren't forced into having 12 man squads at all. Vets go at 10 men, and Special Weapon Squads go at 6.

Whoops! I guess I was thinking of vets, but even there I got the number wrong.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Another (probably old) idea. For those who run with two Inquisitor HQs (Coteaz and another guy), isn't a Psyocculum Inquisitor a good idea? Whole unit is BS 10 anytime they're shooting a unit that contains a psyker. That could work out quite well with either mass psycannon fire, or with henchmen like plasma servitors, plasma acolytes and jokero

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:

 daedalus-templarius wrote:
Also one of my Dreadknights was charged by like 15 outflanking genestealers, took 1 wound on the first assault and then proceeded to slowly kill the entire squad over the course of the game.

How did he charge from Outflank?

Super Newb wrote:
What do you guys think about having smaller sized henchmen units in chimeras? The goal would be to have three special weapons and a few other guys, and that's it. No 12 man squad (like IG is forced to do).

Guard aren't forced into having 12 man squads at all. Vets go at 10 men, and Special Weapon Squads go at 6.

Wow so you really can't charge from outflank?

Where is that in the rules?

I've had a lot of success with 4 units that are this build(psybolt razorback, 5x warrior acolytes with 3x plasma gun) it's a cool 100 points for all of that jazz. Yeah the can't shoot out of the razorbacks, but they never last too long anyway. I'd probably never take it for competitive games though.

Mordrak's Grand Strategy can turn some of those DKs and/or GKIS into scoring units.

SJ

 daedalus-templarius wrote:
Wow so you really can't charge from outflank?

Where is that in the rules?

In 6th unfortunately nothing can assault when coming in from reserve

Guys, I'm trying to design a more "in your face" list using GK. Now I only have 2 DK and it will be a LONG time before I ever buy and build a third, so my limit is two there, lol. With that restriction, I feel like the best list I could come up with liberally uses SW as allies (which is good as they are the only non-GK guys I have around lol):

1750 GK + SW In Your Face

GK:

Coteaz

3 PC Servitors, 2 Warrior Acolytes with plasmaguns, 6 Acolytes with bolters, Chimera
3 acolytes, Psybolt Razorback
3 acolytes, Psybolt Razorback

2 Dreadknights, HI + PT

SW:

Rune Priest

Wolf Guard - 5 PA with combi-weapons, 2 TDA with combi-weapons ans fists, Drop Pod

10 GH, 2 Plasma, WS, Drop Pod
10 GH, 2 Melta, WS, Drop Pod

6 LF, 5 ML



How does that look to y'all?

 daedalus-templarius wrote:

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:

 daedalus-templarius wrote:
Also one of my Dreadknights was charged by like 15 outflanking genestealers, took 1 wound on the first assault and then proceeded to slowly kill the entire squad over the course of the game.

How did he charge from Outflank?

Super Newb wrote:
What do you guys think about having smaller sized henchmen units in chimeras? The goal would be to have three special weapons and a few other guys, and that's it. No 12 man squad (like IG is forced to do).

Guard aren't forced into having 12 man squads at all. Vets go at 10 men, and Special Weapon Squads go at 6.

Wow so you really can't charge from outflank?

Where is that in the rules?

Probably the assault rules or else the reserve rules; you can never charge from any kind of reserves in 6th unless given special permission to d so, such as Ymgarls or Lucius Pods.

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:

 daedalus-templarius wrote:

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:

 daedalus-templarius wrote:
Also one of my Dreadknights was charged by like 15 outflanking genestealers, took 1 wound on the first assault and then proceeded to slowly kill the entire squad over the course of the game.

How did he charge from Outflank?

Super Newb wrote:
What do you guys think about having smaller sized henchmen units in chimeras? The goal would be to have three special weapons and a few other guys, and that's it. No 12 man squad (like IG is forced to do).

Guard aren't forced into having 12 man squads at all. Vets go at 10 men, and Special Weapon Squads go at 6.

Wow so you really can't charge from outflank?

Where is that in the rules?

Probably the assault rules or else the reserve rules; you can never charge from any kind of reserves in 6th unless given special permission to d so, such as Ymgarls or Lucius Pods.

I will have to tell him that his genestealers are even more pathetic now. Then laugh

So when it comes to equipping Paladins/Termies, are Halberds still the way to go, or are swords better now? I'd think that with only one exception (Incubi), most things that hit at AP2 now go at the after you, and those few that do now (DPs, GDs, Genestealers, Avatar of Khaine) will still go before you even with the Halberds, or be I1 since you have the psyk-out grenades making I6 pointless, in which case you'd want the 4++ in case it survives your first round of attacks.

And wow I just realized something, anyone else think the Super high initiative of new Daemons/Avatar was created specifically in response to GK halberds?

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
So when it comes to equipping Paladins/Termies, are Halberds still the way to go, or are swords better now? I'd think that with only one exception (Incubi), most things that hit at AP2 now go at the after you, and those few that do now (DPs, GDs, Genestealers, Avatar of Khaine) will still go before you even with the Halberds, or be I1 since you have the psyk-out grenades making I6 pointless, in which case you'd want the 4++ in case it survives your first round of attacks.

And wow I just realized something, anyone else think the Super high initiative of new Daemons/Avatar was created specifically in response to GK halberds?

Doesn't Psyk-out grenades basically negate this advantage?

 daedalus-templarius wrote:

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
So when it comes to equipping Paladins/Termies, are Halberds still the way to go, or are swords better now? I'd think that with only one exception (Incubi), most things that hit at AP2 now go at the after you, and those few that do now (DPs, GDs, Genestealers, Avatar of Khaine) will still go before you even with the Halberds, or be I1 since you have the psyk-out grenades making I6 pointless, in which case you'd want the 4++ in case it survives your first round of attacks.

And wow I just realized something, anyone else think the Super high initiative of new Daemons/Avatar was created specifically in response to GK halberds?

Doesn't Psyk-out grenades basically negate this advantage?

They only work if GK charge, not if they are charged first. And with most GD being FMC or being fleet they will usually be the ones charging unless something goes horribly wrong for them...

Something else:

With the prevalence of AP2 weapons for Tau and Eldar, and with the new C:SM codex having Devs/predators, Sternguard, pretty much everything that can hurt them now super cheap, is it even worth tricking a DK anymore. I'm thinking just running him with the teleporter is all you need, 205pts, and coupled with a once per game 36" move you have a great distraction carnifex. You're first turn, just move him right next to the enemy and force them to deal with him. Yes, he'll die, but thats less things shooting at your other stuff, and if the off chance he survives, hes gonna take something down before he goes down turn 2...

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
Something else:

With the prevalence of AP2 weapons for Tau and Eldar, and with the new C:SM codex having Devs/predators, Sternguard, pretty much everything that can hurt them now super cheap, is it even worth tricking a DK anymore. I'm thinking just running him with the teleporter is all you need, 205pts, and coupled with a once per game 36" move you have a great distraction carnifex. You're first turn, just move him right next to the enemy and force them to deal with him. Yes, he'll die, but thats less things shooting at your other stuff, and if the off chance he survives, hes gonna take something down before he goes down turn 2...

What benefit is the shunt if he can't even shoot afterward?

I wouldn't just give my opponent a 205 point model (235 for me as Incinerator is a lot of wounds IMHO) to kill it 1st round .. I just don't think that strategy is going to work .. If it's a Tau army I would add 2x DK and 2x Interceptors and Mordrak and be 1st turn in his face so he won't know where to focus and have my Inquisition firing from behind .. If it's an Eldar army I'll see if I can outrange him and if I don't I'll try to and if that's not gonna work either then I'll shunt again with my DK probably ..

Just feeding the opponents one of your deadly tools isn't going to work that's what I think anyway ..

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
Something else:

With the prevalence of AP2 weapons for Tau and Eldar, and with the new C:SM codex having Devs/predators, Sternguard, pretty much everything that can hurt them now super cheap, is it even worth tricking a DK anymore. I'm thinking just running him with the teleporter is all you need, 205pts, and coupled with a once per game 36" move you have a great distraction carnifex. You're first turn, just move him right next to the enemy and force them to deal with him. Yes, he'll die, but thats less things shooting at your other stuff, and if the off chance he survives, hes gonna take something down before he goes down turn 2...

What benefit is the shunt if he can't even shoot afterward?

What makes you think you can't shoot after Shunting?

You just can't assault. In fact the Personal Teliporter rule explicitly says you can shoot or run after using the shunt. You just can't assault.

 Grey Templar wrote:

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
Something else:

With the prevalence of AP2 weapons for Tau and Eldar, and with the new C:SM codex having Devs/predators, Sternguard, pretty much everything that can hurt them now super cheap, is it even worth tricking a DK anymore. I'm thinking just running him with the teleporter is all you need, 205pts, and coupled with a once per game 36" move you have a great distraction carnifex. You're first turn, just move him right next to the enemy and force them to deal with him. Yes, he'll die, but thats less things shooting at your other stuff, and if the off chance he survives, hes gonna take something down before he goes down turn 2...

What benefit is the shunt if he can't even shoot afterward?

What makes you think you can't shoot after Shunting?

You just can't assault. In fact the Personal Teliporter rule explicitly says you can shoot or run after using the shunt. You just can't assault.

If you don't equip it with a ranged weapon, which is what he was suggesting, I think.

 Grey Templar wrote:

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
Something else:

With the prevalence of AP2 weapons for Tau and Eldar, and with the new C:SM codex having Devs/predators, Sternguard, pretty much everything that can hurt them now super cheap, is it even worth tricking a DK anymore. I'm thinking just running him with the teleporter is all you need, 205pts, and coupled with a once per game 36" move you have a great distraction carnifex. You're first turn, just move him right next to the enemy and force them to deal with him. Yes, he'll die, but thats less things shooting at your other stuff, and if the off chance he survives, hes gonna take something down before he goes down turn 2...

What benefit is the shunt if he can't even shoot afterward?

What makes you think you can't shoot after Shunting?

You just can't assault. In fact the Personal Teliporter rule explicitly says you can shoot or run after using the shunt. You just can't assault.

Read the post that I was responding to again.

if your only assault option is a single DK, then you are using your assault assets wrong.

A single anything assaulting will get chewed up pretty fast by any gunline army.

A gunline army will fold if charged by 4-5 things at the same time. The trick is to get them all into position by turn 1-2.

If you plan to out shoot Tau or IG or gunline SM, then you are definitely not going to really do well. (unless your GK are just suicidial bullet catchers)

Ok, guys, finally finished the report for my tournament experiences at the ATC 2K. If you want to get some insight on Grey Knight tactics - actually, Draigowing tactics - or if you just want an entertaining read, you can find my report at:


Team Fluffy Bunnies Goes to the ATC - 2K Draigowing + Necrons

 jy2 wrote:
Ok, guys, finally finished the report for my tournament experiences at the ATC 2K. If you want to get some insight on Grey Knight tactics - actually, Draigowing tactics - or if you just want an entertaining read, you can find my report at:


Team Fluffy Bunnies Goes to the ATC - 2K Draigowing + Necrons

I've read them all, awesome games! Good job with Draigowing, Paladins are still awesome.

This thread is not going to die, I refuse.

Been playing Draigo and a small wing, 2 DKs, and Eldar, been working pretty well.

I am thinking the two Wraithcannons are a better fit for the Wraithknight rather than the suncannon, unless you know you're going to be fighting against a ton of infantry.

The DKs Incinerator seems to handle that job pretty well for the most part.

Might be playing it against the latest tourney winner soon, which was Daemons. He told me they basically lost the collar of Khorne, which negates that super sweet 2+ save against force weapons. He seems to think I will eat him alive now, lol.

I guess Bloodthirster's strength did get knocked down... so he won't instakill a bunch of Paladins on the way in.

Oh, and Daemons don't have EW anymore either?

Has anyone else noticed a shift in the meta back to Tri-Raider lists? I see a lot of new Space Marine lists taking 2 to 3 Land Raiders to counter all the AP 3 and AP 2 infantry killer weapons found in newer codexes. Also, there is a shift back to Lascannons as the preferred anti-vehicle/anti-MC weapon. Its almost like the meta has swung back to 5th.

To add to this, people in my area are talking about Rhino spam again, putting 9 to 10 on the table at 1850. Makes me want to dust off my Sisters' Immolator list.

SJ

 daedalus-templarius wrote:
This thread is not going to die, I refuse.

Been playing Draigo and a small wing, 2 DKs, and Eldar, been working pretty well.

I am thinking the two Wraithcannons are a better fit for the Wraithknight rather than the suncannon, unless you know you're going to be fighting against a ton of infantry.

The DKs Incinerator seems to handle that job pretty well for the most part.

Might be playing it against the latest tourney winner soon, which was Daemons. He told me they basically lost the collar of Khorne, which negates that super sweet 2+ save against force weapons. He seems to think I will eat him alive now, lol.

I guess Bloodthirster's strength did get knocked down... so he won't instakill a bunch of Paladins on the way in.

Oh, and Daemons don't have EW anymore either?

Daemons can still be dangerous to the grey knights. They're actually a very good army and if you're not careful, they can crush you. There are a lot of daemonic "tricks" like re-rollable 2++ saves (yes, that's a re-rollable 2++ Invuln save) and massed Flying MC's with lots of psychic powers (Enfeeble or Hallucination is a real b*tch to paladins). You're lucky he's running Khorne, as that may be one of the weaker of the daemon armies (and even then, Khorne-dog builds are pretty tough for most armies to deal with). The BT can still insa-kill paladins depending on his load-out and if he gets the charge (could be S8-9 on the charge). But you can deal with him quite easily if you have a warding stave in your unit (which I normally do).

I definitely recommend the 2x wraithcannons for your wraithknight. Take that and now you can afford another soladin. You are also now a threat to vehicles (here's looking at those land raiders) as well as MC's with the insta-killing distort rules.

But luckily for us, no more EW for daemons. Now the dreadknight is actually deadly against them.

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
Has anyone else noticed a shift in the meta back to Tri-Raider lists? I see a lot of new Space Marine lists taking 2 to 3 Land Raiders to counter all the AP 3 and AP 2 infantry killer weapons found in newer codexes. Also, there is a shift back to Lascannons as the preferred anti-vehicle/anti-MC weapon. Its almost like the meta has swung back to 5th.

To add to this, people in my area are talking about Rhino spam again, putting 9 to 10 on the table at 1850. Makes me want to dust off my Sisters' Immolator list.

SJ

The more things change, the more they stay the same.

What comes around, goes around.

Life is a big fat circle.

Yada, yada, yada.....


BTW, I'm running space wolves in land raiders now.

Yeah, I use to run Tri-Raider Grey Hunter lists back in the day, too. When I wasn't running my Tri-Raider GK list.

SJ

 jy2 wrote:


Daemons can still be dangerous to the grey knights. They're actually a very good army and if you're not careful, they can crush you. There are a lot of daemonic "tricks" like re-rollable 2++ saves (yes, that's a re-rollable 2++ Invuln save) and massed Flying MC's with lots of psychic powers (Enfeeble or Hallucination is a real b*tch to paladins). You're lucky he's running Khorne, as that may be one of the weaker of the daemon armies (and even then, Khorne-dog builds are pretty tough for most armies to deal with). The BT can still insa-kill paladins depending on his load-out and if he gets the charge (could be S8-9 on the charge). But you can deal with him quite easily if you have a warding stave in your unit (which I normally do).

I definitely recommend the 2x wraithcannons for your wraithknight. Take that and now you can afford another soladin. You are also now a threat to vehicles (here's looking at those land raiders) as well as MC's with the insta-killing distort rules.

But luckily for us, no more EW for daemons. Now the dreadknight is actually deadly against them.

Oh god I remember the agony during a tournament a while ago. BT charged and was S8 into the left side of my paladins, Draigo had been turned into a spawn right before that (so painful) so he was of no use, and the BT just went ahead and instant-deathed about 6 of my Paladins right away.

That game went really poorly!

I am looking forward to seeing how his new stuff plays.


As for LRs on the rise, I have 4 LRs, and I could totally do a tri-raider list. But it just seems that Paladins and Draigo are better out of a transport and shooting from the first turn with Psycannons, Coteaz w/ Prescience, etc. But I could definitely see sticking GKs in PA into a LR, considering they are really vulnerable these days.

Have an idea about allying Grey Knights into my Eldar list. One thing I found that is really a problem for Eldar are Drop Pods and Deep Strikers dropping right in front of your Serpents. Also against certain enemies going first is a must. Lastly, immense hoards with cover might be an issue for some lists.

I was thinking Coteaz, 10 Strikes and a Dreadknight would make good allies for a 3-4 Serpents list with 2 Wraithknights tacked on. This gives re-roll to seize, Deep Strike protection, some additional AA with Prescienced Psycannons, and the Dreadknight for anti-hoard and more monstery fun.

What do people think about this?