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drbored: I do highly agree on your 3rd point.
That comment was simply to suggest we arent getting marines with spikes, which if you ask me, if a massive result.

The idea that chaos is changing alot is great as there has allways been tons of aspects of a chaos army that sound great, but we dont get.

The idea of having a decent khornate army again is one that i like alot, and if i can have cultists that are foaming at the mouth as a soft shield, all the better.


Also, 2 things.

1: Dreads are not being replaced by hellbrutes.
Hells are simply a more crazy version (like a DC dread)

2: Chaos LR's are cheaper, but also lack PotMS and the same transport capacity

 Wyrmalla wrote:
...As in codex entries have an established format, that one doesn't follow it. Like I said, you wouldn't find such fanciful lines like such and such a unit having the glory of carrying a banner for 10pts, it would just be "one cultist may carry a Banner of Chaos Glory for 10pts". =p

I guess you missed the part where he says it's a playtest document, where I imagine the designers are not particularly zealous about getting the right spelling.

My only issue is why are we seeing something out of a playtest codex when we know the real one has been sent to printers a while ago.
The picture looks completely wrong also. The designers should be using a template document, so there's no reason for it to look so different.

0.o Why disagree with my point then say the same thing?

 Wyrmalla wrote:
=/ We'll have to see if they adopt the old format for unit pricing or not really. The current one's "pay x for the unit, then y for each individual model subsequently". I don't see much of an issue with that right now as it makes initially working out unit points costs easy. It does however cause issues when you're working out victory points, or only wanting x amount of models in a squad (ie it'd be silly to only be able to take 5 or ten man squads sizes like the Marine codex, as it wouldn't allow for god specific numbers for fluffy players). With units that are meant to be large I think they'll use this format (ie cultists probably have a minimum size of ten), whilst Chaos Marines will probably be charged individually (...or minimum squad 5 men, 15pts for each additional man).

they use that style for some ordered soldier armies like IG and C:SM but they chose not to use it for warrior armies like DE

drbored wrote:
1. Natfka is a unique source in that he gets anonymous sources to feed him information. To 'track' him is ridiculous. It's like blaming a librarian for carrying a book that makes predictions that don't end up coming true. It's not the librarian's fault.

True, but all of us listening to those predictions like to know how often they tend to come true. If it's a really low number, there's no point in listening anymore. If it's a fairly high number, then it's worth checking in from time to time. Knowing the librarian's name just lets us discuss those results unambiguously.

Essentially, we want to know if people with legitimate information use him to spread their information.

So what the heck is "Servants of Chaos" that's listed in the special rules?

In all honesty I find it strange how their are some options you can only buy if the squad has Autoguns, and some options you can only take if the whole squad switches their auto guns for pistol/CCW's 1st.

It' kinda clunky and arbitrary... Why can't I take Heavy Flamers or Grenade Launchers if I'm using Autoguns?
O____o

Lockark wrote:
Why can't I take Heavy Flamers or Grenade Launchers if I'm using Autoguns?
O____o

Might want to check again. No Heavy Flamer in there, just a normal one.

Lockark wrote:
In all honesty I find it strange how their are some options you can only buy if the squad has Autoguns, and some options you can only take if the whole squad switches their auto guns for pistol/CCW's 1st.

And can't the Champ start with an Autogun?

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

Lockark wrote:
Why can't I take Heavy Flamers or Grenade Launchers if I'm using Autoguns?
O____o

Might want to check again. No Heavy Flamer in there, just a normal one.

Derp. Brain fart. But yah... I meant Flamer.
XD

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Lockark wrote:
In all honesty I find it strange how their are some options you can only buy if the squad has Autoguns, and some options you can only take if the whole squad switches their auto guns for pistol/CCW's 1st.

And can't the Champ start with an Autogun?

It says he always starts with CCW/pistol, and can switch both for a Autogun or shotgun.

Wait... Isn't the leader of one of the cultists squads equipped with a shotgun and CCW? =/ Even if this are legit, they would have be be fairly early play test rules, for that contradiction to make scene. So at that point they might as well be a hoax.

Shotgun+CCW = identical rules than just a shotgun...

Interested to see what they finally do with the cultists, though I might not use many. My goal is to have a nice 1850pt list with the new book for a big tournament in Jan.

If I can get 2 units of 18 for a nice points cost and still have lots of Thousand Sons, it'll be bad news bears for lots of folks.

(that's right dan)

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Shotgun+CCW = identical rules than just a shotgun...

Yah, I know that

But the rules in the Starter box say that he has a Shotgun and CCW, the rules posted say he should only be listed with a shotgun. No not a CCW.

Just another sign this latest rumour smells fishy.

drbored wrote:
1. Natfka is a unique source in that he gets anonymous sources to feed him information. To 'track' him is ridiculous. It's like blaming a librarian for carrying a book that makes predictions that don't end up coming true. It's not the librarian's fault. People post bogus sometimes. To 'track' Natfka is ridiculous and he's even said so, which is why he specifies that he gets his information from anonymous sources.

Everyone has his sources. But it is good to know whether Natfka's and Darnok's sources are mostly wrong and Harry's sources mostly right.

Anyone hearing anything about the price of HVY weapons in ther terminator chosen units? And count?I'm wondering if Reapers will be good again?

I like their looks, they will make my Drag'o'don Wing *TM stand out.

 Jackal wrote:
Wyrmalla, you missed another key thing
The unit may take grenades for 10 points.

Cool, 1 point each, now what if i buy 20 more members for that unit?
Only 0.33 points for grenades each

Usually they would charge a rate per model, unless the unit cant gain additional models like sang guard.

I don't like it either, but Codex: Grey Knights has some flat cost "pay X/unit" rather than "X/model" upgrades for variably-sized units. Regrettably, this kind of sloppy writing may well be the studio's standard model from now on.

drbored wrote:


I don't want a 'tactical one-man easy-button-win' army. I want the cackling maniacs charging forward into battle, slaughtering in the name of their dark gods, using wargear and artefacts so corrupted by the warp as to be rendered unrecognizable. Phil Kelly will do a great job at this, I have faith in that.

And the army will be fantastic and incredibly effective to boot, just you wait.

I really hope you are right, but so far the rumors just don't indicate that. No mention of new ICs or any of that amazing, chaotic weaponry, just a bare-bones update. No info on new vehicles or LR variants other than the daemon engines (which is something already, I agree). But without data leaning in that direction, all we're doing is trusting the writer because he's not bland like Gav Thorpe or broken like Matt Ward.

I just find it infinitely annoying that loyalist chapters, that supposedly all adhere dogmatically to the equipment patterns of the Mechanicum, miraculously find tons of new, powerful gear every codex under the couch or something and the actual crazy people with the motive and the freedom to create new, insane evil stuff just stick with the bolter/meltagun/vanilla LRs and rhinos mix.

@drbored: there is functionally no difference between Harry saying posting rumors that he gets trough anonymous channels and natfka. Harry doesn't trybto distance himself though he just posts what he hears. I'm not faulting natfka for posting but he is a monger by doing so.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kroothawk wrote:

drbored wrote:
1. Natfka is a unique source in that he gets anonymous sources to feed him information. To 'track' him is ridiculous. It's like blaming a librarian for carrying a book that makes predictions that don't end up coming true. It's not the librarian's fault. People post bogus sometimes. To 'track' Natfka is ridiculous and he's even said so, which is why he specifies that he gets his information from anonymous sources.

Everyone has his sources. But it is good to know whether Natfka's and Darnok's sources are mostly wrong and Harry's sources mostly right.

Or I could have read the next page and just said "what kroothawk said".

 Sephyr wrote:

drbored wrote:


I don't want a 'tactical one-man easy-button-win' army. I want the cackling maniacs charging forward into battle, slaughtering in the name of their dark gods, using wargear and artefacts so corrupted by the warp as to be rendered unrecognizable. Phil Kelly will do a great job at this, I have faith in that.

And the army will be fantastic and incredibly effective to boot, just you wait.

I really hope you are right, but so far the rumors just don't indicate that. No mention of new ICs or any of that amazing, chaotic weaponry, just a bare-bones update. No info on new vehicles or LR variants other than the daemon engines (which is something already, I agree). But without data leaning in that direction, all we're doing is trusting the writer because he's not bland like Gav Thorpe or broken like Matt Ward.

I just find it infinitely annoying that loyalist chapters, that supposedly all adhere dogmatically to the equipment patterns of the Mechanicum, miraculously find tons of new, powerful gear every codex under the couch or something and the actual crazy people with the motive and the freedom to create new, insane evil stuff just stick with the bolter/meltagun/vanilla LRs and rhinos mix.

Phil Kelly isn't to far off from broken either, half of the space wolf dex is unused for a reason, and his Eldar used to be Gamebreaking with tri-falcon. I'm more worried that we'll be stuck with a dex where only two or three units are viable and the ones that are viable are kinda OP.

I just hope sorcerer spam is still viable..

Too early to tell, but I bet there will be no way to have ML:2 on Troops

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

 Sephyr wrote:

drbored wrote:


I don't want a 'tactical one-man easy-button-win' army. I want the cackling maniacs charging forward into battle, slaughtering in the name of their dark gods, using wargear and artefacts so corrupted by the warp as to be rendered unrecognizable. Phil Kelly will do a great job at this, I have faith in that.

And the army will be fantastic and incredibly effective to boot, just you wait.

I really hope you are right, but so far the rumors just don't indicate that. No mention of new ICs or any of that amazing, chaotic weaponry, just a bare-bones update. No info on new vehicles or LR variants other than the daemon engines (which is something already, I agree). But without data leaning in that direction, all we're doing is trusting the writer because he's not bland like Gav Thorpe or broken like Matt Ward.

I just find it infinitely annoying that loyalist chapters, that supposedly all adhere dogmatically to the equipment patterns of the Mechanicum, miraculously find tons of new, powerful gear every codex under the couch or something and the actual crazy people with the motive and the freedom to create new, insane evil stuff just stick with the bolter/meltagun/vanilla LRs and rhinos mix.

Phil Kelly isn't to far off from broken either, half of the space wolf dex is unused for a reason, and his Eldar used to be Gamebreaking with tri-falcon. I'm more worried that we'll be stuck with a dex where only two or three units are viable and the ones that are viable are kinda OP.

In 5th Edition at least, the vast majority of the Codex was viable (the Sky & Swiftclaws, Iron Priest and WGBL being the only rubbish ones IMHO), its just that Grey Hunters, Rune Priests, Long Fangs and Wolf Guard and Thunderwolves were clearly the best units. All others in between were still viable IMHO.
But hey, best not turn another thread into a discussion of Codex writers...

I'm personally more apprehensive than excited about the new CSM 'dex.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Faeit posted an alleged snapshot of playtest rules for Cultists, for what it's worth. Looks great.

http://natfka.blogspot.co.uk/2012/09/chaos-cultists-rules-box-set-and-pic.html

Looks great, looks fantastic! A squad of 30 cultists for 100 points...I'll take two, thank you very much! Hopefully the servant of Chaos rules means that they can be fired upon in close combat.
Alternatively, 30 cultists with autoguns and 3 heavy stubbers for 115 points will put out a good amount of firepower for a very cheap unit. If the point costs remain similar I will definitely be taking three of said units instead.

I'm really looking forward to using cultists as long as the final product is similar to these playtest rules.

 Vladsimpaler wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Faeit posted an alleged snapshot of playtest rules for Cultists, for what it's worth. Looks great.

http://natfka.blogspot.co.uk/2012/09/chaos-cultists-rules-box-set-and-pic.html

Looks great, looks fantastic! A squad of 30 cultists for 100 points...I'll take two, thank you very much! Hopefully the servant of Chaos rules means that they can be fired upon in close combat.
Alternatively, 30 cultists with autoguns and 3 heavy stubbers for 115 points will put out a good amount of firepower for a very cheap unit. If the point costs remain similar I will definitely be taking three of said units instead.

I'm really looking forward to using cultists as long as the final product is similar to these playtest rules.

And if not, you can always use them as cheap "food" for demonic possessed vehicles to devour.

In 5th Edition at least, the vast majority of the Codex was viable (the Sky & Swiftclaws, Iron Priest and WGBL being the only rubbish ones IMHO), its just that Grey Hunters, Rune Priests, Long Fangs and Wolf Guard and Thunderwolves were clearly the best units. All others in between were still viable IMHO.

True enough, but I really don't want chaos becoming the go to "Spam" book where we see a ton of lists near 100% alike due to people jumping on that wagon.

That's going to happen regardless. Bandwagoners gonna bangwagon, and all that.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Faeit posted an alleged snapshot of playtest rules for Cultists, for what it's worth. Looks great.

http://natfka.blogspot.co.uk/2012/09/chaos-cultists-rules-box-set-and-pic.html

Lots of comments on the rules but no one has posted the important stuff - the contents of the cultist box:

"Oh, and cultists are getting a plastic box of 10 that comes with 10 sets of auto pistol / ccw arms, 10 autoguns, 2 shotguns, 1 heavy stubber, 1 flamer, 1 grenade launcher, 1 icon (with several top options), 1 power axe, 1 power maul and a bunch of bits to put here and there (such as frag grenades and trophies). Only thing I didn't see was a power sword."

Tim

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
That's going to happen regardless. Bandwagoners gonna bangwagon, and all that.

Aye, but you still have to hate it, especially if you get called a band-wagoner even though you played the army before the rerelease...
that happened to my after the necron release... annoyed me to no end

Not this bandwagoner nonsense again. Seriously, who cares? Does it hurt you if someone else is playing an army you happen to like?

Apparently, yes. If you weren't already playing an army when they got updated then you're not allowed to play them when the new book comes out.

It's more when they join to WAAC that it's bad, which is usually the case

UltraPrime wrote:
Not this bandwagoner nonsense again. Seriously, who cares? Does it hurt you if someone else is playing an army you happen to like?

No. It's just a point of pride. A lot of people identify with their armies and take it as a personal insult when people jump on board simply because it's the newest (possibly) b0rkenest thing in the game at the moment.