Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I never, ever, ever let any online order get past the point where I can make a claim with Paypal. Credit card companies often have a similar claim period.

After about a week before the final claim date, I send the seller one last email telling them that they need to either ship everything immediately or give me a refund.

On the last day before I can't make a claim, I make one.

I've only ever had to do this twice.

I started this approach because I once dealt with a seller who gave me the run around until the claim date expired and then stopped replying to my communications. Never again will that happen.

I was at mealstrom games yesterday and they are only completing order they have at the moment and there seriously low on stock they did'nt even have any death company but they are moving the to a new warhouse so they do have a valid reason but im sure they havnt forgotten you.

Maelstrom are shockingly bad. i stopped using them months ago. Wrong orders, no stock, you name it. WOuldnt recommend them to anyone

I think you will find this is a one off because mealstrom is normally top notch all my order have bin quick and far cheaper then any other store and do remember there only human and will somtimes make mistakes.

I stopped using Maelstrom because of how incredibly slow they are. I'm back on Wayland now since Dark Sphere stopped shipping GW and I don't want to give Rocket Hobbies my phone number (I don't give it out, I don't get telemarketed - sort of a principal thing before anyone says I should just change my ways)

Wayland are the same old story - might have to wait for 40K but pretty good on the lesser lines. I ordered a starter Empire army last night, shipped this morning. Seems they've gotten better.

Both Maelstrom and Wayland need to improve there communication with customers when there is a problem with an order. with both of them i have to constantly chase up orders.

Maelstrom have the edge in customer service imo.

I probably should have added that my order did turn up last Thursday :p

daedalus wrote:I came for the biscuits. :(

Lol, I pretty much did to find out what that expression meant, as well

Davylove21 wrote:I stopped using Maelstrom because of how incredibly slow they are. I'm back on Wayland now since Dark Sphere stopped shipping GW and I don't want to give Rocket Hobbies my phone number (I don't give it out, I don't get telemarketed - sort of a principal thing before anyone says I should just change my ways).

We dont normally insist of phone numbers, we have many customers with blank or 0 phone numbers. The only times we insist on a valid phone number is if the fraud risk is too high. For example if you signup, use a generic email (e.g. hotmail, live, gmail), then ask us to ship it to a different address to your billing address on your first puirchase and the address isnt verified in paypal and stick all zeros in for your phone number. I dont think thats unreasonable, after all we are gambling by sending out goods at tiny margins. I think its sensible that we assess orders and take some small steps to minimise losses due to fraudulent purchases. Some retailers wont even allow you to send to a different shipping address on your first order. The vast majority of customers totally understand when we politely ask for a phone number in those rare cases, some just send in rude replies.


Richard
Rocket Hobbies

Henners91 wrote:Were they grabbing at excuses?

Talking from the experiences of myself and a few friends, they aren't making it up. It's not just Maelstrom either, as Wayland has the same issue if you order stuff that is out of stock (though at least Maelstrom actually list the stuff as being out of stock). GW tend to dick around indy traders online a lot with late stock as it gains them business by impatient and/or disgruntled gamers.

The biggest problem with that made up excuse is that GW could just not sell to independent retailers or dictate whatever terms it likes in it's distribution agreements, but it doesn't do that.

Instead it requires weekly orders. This means that it isn't use as a trade counter for Internet retailers to draw on rather than holding stock.

I've been on the receiving end of Maelstrom delays from time to time but in their defence, I placed an order on Friday night and it shipped yesterday.

azreal13 wrote:

Steve steveson wrote:
I'm sorry, but I don't buy that. Once a week ordering I can beleave, but limiting what they can buy? I'm sorry, but I don't buy that excuse at all. The only reason I can see for that is that they are as bad at paying their bills as they are at supplying customers so are on a tight credit limit.

Believe it. In many industries where the supplier has a retail interest of its own it will manage stock flow to its own advantage.

I come from a mobile phone background and exactly the same thing applies. You can order as many as you like, but you'll only get left overs once their own priorities are taken care of.

Prioritizing your own stores over others is different to limiting what someone can order, which is what they are suggesting. I would expect if GW has two orders, one for a GW store and one for an independent store, but only enough in the warehouse, for the GW store to get the stock, but that is not what they are implying. (or at least not what the person I was replying to was implying, which may be different to what Maelstrom said)

Well they where limited to five of each finecast figure for example, not sure if that has changed though.

So if Seven people order Arjac Rockfist in a week, Maelstrom could only cover five of them.

So GW has certainly effected independents before, not sure if its still going on mind.

If that's the case then all maelstrom has to do is only take orders for stock they have available for rather than taking money for non-existent stock leaving the customer dangling.

All that continues to bother me is the persistent 'ZOMG AWESOME MEGA SALE!' e-mails they keep sending out when they can't even keep up with their backlog... they're just increasing it for the sake of short-term revenue.

In my opinion, by building up so much demand, beyond, perhaps, their actual capacity, they may be making a quick buck but they'll find their reputation in tatters by the end of it.

Though I was satisfied with their customer service, it didn't change how long I had to wait for a simple rulebook. I know that I'll be using Wayland from now on (who aren't perfect either, but they've yet to do worse than Maelstrom for me).

Given that they have the funds to open up a larger warehouse independently of the store, I'm going to hazard a guess that Maelstrom are doing pretty damn well. I'm confident that, once the warehouse opens, order and dispatch speed will pick up very quickly.

Clearly they're doing well despite all the naysayers.

I am planning on using 4tk for the standard GW stuff I need purely for the fact they have better prices then malestorm and are quite local to me, I dont plan on going into any GW store any time soon to be honest.

My 40k rulebook took about 9 days in total, so no problem for me as I was a cheapskate and took the standard free delivery option.

Maelstrom are always really slow for me. I only ever order from them if I don't mind waiting at least a month for whatever I ordered to be shipped.

Having said that, their CS is generally good and I've never had a problem with items going missing/broken/etc.

Eiríkr wrote:Given that they have the funds to open up a larger warehouse independently of the store, I'm going to hazard a guess that Maelstrom are doing pretty damn well. I'm confident that, once the warehouse opens, order and dispatch speed will pick up very quickly.

Clearly they're doing well despite all the naysayers.

Or they have just signed a lease on a property, funds aren't relevent until the end of the month.

A 20% megasale should generate cashflow in the meantime.

Improving respose times will only happen if they consistantly buy enough stock, something they havent done previously.

End of the quarter more likely. Most commercial rents are done on a quarterly basis. However they would still have had to raise the deposit and possibly the first quarters rent.

Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote:Well they where limited to five of each finecast figure for example, not sure if that has changed though.

So if Seven people order Arjac Rockfist in a week, Maelstrom could only cover five of them.

So GW has certainly effected independents before, not sure if its still going on mind.

As I understood it they were limiting there own shops in how many they could stock, to ensure that everyone got some stock. I think they still do when there is a new FC release. The only place you can get FC with out too much risk of is being out of stock is GW on-line, and even then there is some limit to it. GW staff I have talked to have been quite upfront about this when asked about new releases, so I don't see why Maelstrom should be any different. They can only cast so many at a time.

I think like any larger company (and Maelstrom is certainly one of the largest) it can be difficult for them to keep that level of close customer service up as the orders go up. That isn't a defence at all of larger stores, just an observation. Something you will perhaps still get from the smaller stores. I wish I had known about the stock level ordering of Wayland before making an order last week (and commenting at the time "wow I can't believe they have that in stock!" when I saw the green button, well I guess now I know... )

Although Maelstrom's stock level of Infinity at the moment is appalling - I'm guessing it's either because of the company move, or because Corvus Belli are having trouble filling demand with the game seemingly taking off a lot more over previous months.

Druidic wrote:
2l GW will only supply them once per week and with limited stock covering both online and retail. This is another reason for the split but also explains why the store has almost no GW stock!

This has been confirmed by at least 2-3 different stores, both on their news sites and on forums, possibly more.

Before everyone leaps to the defence of GW in not providing adequate stock levels, which can of course make sense from a business perspective (if GW does not have enough to go around), please remember the time in the UK when the local independent gaming shop was almost destroyed completely by GW's methods of supplying stock*, and only after the last 4-5 years have they started to claw their way back out of the grave due at least in part to the rise of other manufacturers.

I can remember a time with pretty much only GW stores, and in this day and age of so many other game options available, I sincerely don't want this situation to happen again. I always try and buy from local stores, Total Wargamer and Cut & Thrust Wargaming, whenever possible.


* For those who haven't read one of the many other posts/threads on this subject over the years, I have this in person from the manager of an independent I worked in: GW were perfect for supplying stock until a GW store opened in the same town. Suddenly new stock started arriving late, new releases significantly later, and the sales staff on the phone getting all evasive until eventually he cancelled selling GW entirely.

I also get the feeling that Maelstromgames has slipped recently. They never were particularly fast, but good enough. Now, my order before the last had an item missing, and my recent orders (all item supposedly in stock!) are 3 weeks old and counting. It has been combined, split, and split again in the meantime.

Customer Service takes inquiries about delivery times very lightly. All they did was promise that the shipment would go out soon.

I think I need to look elssewhere in the future.

I'll just add my experiences into this thread.

I made a joint order to Maelstrom Games with a friend of mine nearly a month ago for 1000 euros total. The following happened:

1) The order was processing for two weeks without absolutely anything changing despite the credit card being charged immediately for the full amount. We called them and asked what the heck is going on, and were told that the items would be shipped next week, the 13th of August.

2) However, nothing was shipped. Then, last night I e-mailed them and told them that since three weeks have gone without the order even shipping, the total wait period (atleast 1 month total) was already becoming unreasonably long considering what they claim in their shipping FAQ, we want a full refund for the product we have never received and just cancel the purchase altogether and wash our hands from the whole thing. We will already miss a tournament that we needed these models for, and regret that we just didn't buy our items from a street level retailer for only a marginally higher price.

3) Then I get an e-mail saying that our order has shipped today before he managed to read his e-mails and that if we want a refund we have to ship the items back to him. They will not be responsible for the return shipping costs. He also tried to claim his warehouse staff worked after hours and shipped our items early in the morning before he came to the office. What an interesting coincidence.

Naturally I told him that his shenanigans are completely unprofessional and pointed out the fact that we haven't even received any sort of explanation for the delays, not to mention an apology or any type of compensation in money or future discounts. In fact, I was told that I am being 'unfair' in my comments about the standard of their service. The only thing unfair here is that they charge their customers a thousand euros and then leave them wondering if they were scammed for the full amount.

Not only did they delay an order that should take no more than three days to process (EU delivery) for three weeks, they also made claiming our refund as difficult and expensive as possible for us.

Now we're waiting to see if they have in fact shipped us anything or if the statement was just another lie, just like the lie they told us earlier that they would ship the items on the 13th. If they did indeed ship the items today, we'll get our product sometime next week and the total delivery time counting from the moment of payment will be just about exactly one month. This is from one EU state to the next and assuming that nothing is broken and that no item is missing.

My experience is that something has changed within Maelstrom Games and that I cannot trust them anymore and will definately not do business with them again. I would also advice everyone else to be careful in their transactions with these people.

PS: We made a 500€ order to Forgeworld on the same day as we made the order to Maelstrom. The Forgeworld products arrived almost two weeks ago in perfect condition.

Is it common to charge for an order immediately?

I thought the trend was more to put a 'hold' on the cash until further down the chain.

i have the same sort of experiences with maelstrom. Ordered some magnets from them on 31st July. No shipment, no news, nothing from them yet. Ironically, the rest of the stuff I ordered from wayland or firestorm games have already arrived a week ago and they were roughly placed at the same time.

Both Maelstrom and Wayland take the money first, as soon as the order is placed.

I have never encountered this before, cash is normally taking upon dispatch

I sometimes get the feeling that neither of these companies are keeping much in stock at all, and money taken for orders is then used to order stock as and when needed.

Just my tinfoil hat wearing, paranoid brain at work.....

I only nowadays order stuff that I can't get anywhere else (Sword-Melusines) but it does indeed take a long time to get stuff from them, even Banelords items that they themselves make.

I placed an order with Maelstrom on 7/1 (for a product I am pretty certain was not marked as such at the time, but now shows as back ordered) and it showed as processing until I decided to cancel it at the end of the month. I got a confirmation of my order cancellation on 7/31, stating that the money had been refunded to me as store credit. It also stated that if I wanted a refund by original payment method, to please ask and they would be happy to do so. Since I am located in the States and was only ordering from them because I thought they had that specific product, I proceeded to request a payment refund.

On 8/1 I received an email stating that they had deducted the store credit and were issuing a payment refund. Thinking, perhaps incorrectly, that all electronic payment transfers go quickly in the digital age, I contacted them again on 8/6 requesting confirmation of my refund. I received a response on 8/6 stating "Refunds can take anything up to 3 working days for the banks to process. If it has not been credited to your account by the end of this week please let me know."

I contacted them again on 8/13 (the next week) and 8/17 to check on the status of the refund, but received no reply.

I am glad that it is only a little over $30 I have tied up in this, but would certainly like it back, or at least something for it. After reading this thread, perhaps they are just inundated right now and will get back to me soon, but it is starting to feel like they have lost interest. Honestly, I consider it nice of them to offer the option for a payment refund, but I think the delay has become a bit excessive. It feels like my store credit went away really quick, while the $ is taking its time getting to me.

Yeah I had that store credit/cash back thing before and hey we're honest enough to admit that it was purely to avoid charges from the credit card people since most people end up reordering other stuff.

Easily resolved in a call, not so easy from the states though I'm guessing.

pitboy2710 wrote:
Both Maelstrom and Wayland take the money first, as soon as the order is placed.

I have never encountered this before, cash is normally taking upon dispatch

I sometimes get the feeling that neither of these companies are keeping much in stock at all, and money taken for orders is then used to order stock as and when needed.

Just my tinfoil hat wearing, paranoid brain at work.....

Sorry to post on MG thread but you mentioned us at Wayland

I am going to get some pics of our warehouse and store on here tomorrow. You will be utterly stunned about the vast amount of stock we hold. We didnt just move into a vast warehouse to hear echos. We just can't predict and hold enough stock for every range with every conceivable possible peak when aquisition timescales are built in. We had an item that we sold on average 1 a year. Then some **** posts a great article somewhere and the entire universe wants the item... What would you think the Target stock level be for such an item... if you do know it can you let me know as I have spent years now working with algos to calcualte every combination possible and best use of funds allocated to stock. To be honest none of them work in an industry where supply is constrained like wargames.

Not an excuse btw just reality of a low margin business we cannot keep absolutely everything in stock all the time. We get closer to that ideal all the time though.