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rigeld2 wrote:

Vorlon25 wrote:
we do NOT have to wait while they "try and get the moeny back" - the Credit Card company has to pay up straight away - legally.

They're not trying to get the money back.
They're trying to make sure the vendor actually failed to provide the service.

What you're saying is that I could go charge $5000 on my credit card, get the stuff delivered, call my credit card company and have it all reversed. It doesn't work that way.
Yes - they have to pay if the complaint is legitimate. First they have to ascertain that it's actually legitimate though.

Well yes obviously I was assuming that there weren't any budding Rob Lane's here on the board and that we were all talking about genuine claims.....

But I have been in this situation where the company went bust and we were out £300+ on a credit card, had a letter from the company confirming they were going bust and would not be able to provide the holiday.

I passed this to the Credit Card company who tried to fob me off with - "when & if we get the money back".

I banged in a Section 75 form letter from Martin's website and the money was back with me inside 5 working days.

Whether they got the money back from the firm concerned I neither knew nor cared - Joint Liability - got to love it when just occasionally the little guy doesn't get screwed...

And don't forget - all banks have insurance. If you pay with CC, you are paying with their money. Hellas, something goes wrong - their money are gone, so if they can't get them from the company in bancrupcy, then the insurance clears it for them.

It's much easy to tell to the client - uh, we don't know or something.
I got my money back in a week, only by declaring I didn't get what I ordered 28 days ago.
But here in Austria can be different from other countries.

UK dakkanauts, if your Bank or CCC gives you grief about this, threaten to take them to the Financial Ombudsman Service. This service will charge them an automatic 500pounds for being referred, so they may be smart and just settle up before the case is referred, if you word it to them correctly (and don't admit the knowledge that they'll be charged as a lever...).

FOS here:

http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/

Basically you must go through the bank or CCC's complaint handling service initially and if not happy with their outcome, after 8 weeks of them processing and coming to a conclusion, then you go on to the FOS.

Yeah, the FOS are awesome... just unrelatedly had my bank pay me nearly £3000 (that they owed me) by threatening to take 'em to the Ombudsman.

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:
UK dakkanauts, if your Bank or CCC gives you grief about this, threaten to take them to the Financial Ombudsman Service. This service will charge them an automatic 500pounds for being referred, so they may be smart and just settle up before the case is referred, if you word it to them correctly (and don't admit the knowledge that they'll be charged as a lever...).

FOS here:

http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/

Basically you must go through the bank or CCC's complaint handling service initially and if not happy with their outcome, after 8 weeks of them processing and coming to a conclusion, then you go on to the FOS.

All good information especially the bit about not trying to use the fact that you know they will automatically be charged as leverage, however also be aware that the FOS are at the best of times glacially slow and currently have around a 15 month back log if you do intend to take things further.

They are slow, but are usually start in a position of sympathy to the individual and challenging to the business in question.

There are some key words to making the initial complaint to the bank or credit card company, 'Treated unfairly' being one, 'Obstacles' or 'barriers' being some others.

Also, all financial companies are required to respond within 8 weeks, many of them still think this means send an acknowledgement of receiving your complaint, that is incorrect and a response must be a proposed remedy to the complaint or their judgement on why the complaint is not being upheld. If they fail to send that out, their ass is grass...

 TBD wrote:
The wait is now on the first stories about people making a big fuss at the EotS store/events.

It's a bit surprising actually that no incidents have happened yet (that we know of).

Right. The behaviour was disgraceful, I'm waiting for someone to go down to EoTS with 'the boys' and make a collection of owed goods in person.

 Pacific wrote:

 TBD wrote:
The wait is now on the first stories about people making a big fuss at the EotS store/events.

It's a bit surprising actually that no incidents have happened yet (that we know of).

Right. The behaviour was disgraceful, I'm waiting for someone to go down to EoTS with 'the boys' and make a collection of owed goods in person.

I can imagine it... An angry mob of 13-year old boys hoisting torches and pitchforks in the air.

 Pacific wrote:
Right. The behaviour was disgraceful, I'm waiting for someone to go down to EoTS with 'the boys' and make a collection of owed goods in person.

It sounds like a reverse Boston Tea Party. Quick, what's the opposite of a Native American?

 Pacific wrote:

 TBD wrote:
The wait is now on the first stories about people making a big fuss at the EotS store/events.

It's a bit surprising actually that no incidents have happened yet (that we know of).

Right. The behaviour was disgraceful, I'm waiting for someone to go down to EoTS with 'the boys' and make a collection of owed goods in person.

Well, if you are owed items/money from Maelstrom, and went to EotS to find them sitting there on the shelves I can imagine a certain level of justified angryness.

Does this Rob Lane character work at the store himself?

It's probably why they seem to have given UK customers less of a screwjob than overseas people... less chance someone shows up at their doorstep.

If someone is willing to pay my flight and trip to EotS I'd be willing to go there. Then again the trip there costs more than the money I'm owed by them...

Anyone any idea how to claim if not using paypal when maelstrom take your money send you nothing and shaft you. Legal action seems like the only course :(

 HellFire Sin wrote:
Anyone any idea how to claim if not using paypal when maelstrom take your money send you nothing and shaft you. Legal action seems like the only course :(

Call your CC or debit card provider/bank.

 AlexHolker wrote:

 Pacific wrote:
Right. The behaviour was disgraceful, I'm waiting for someone to go down to EoTS with 'the boys' and make a collection of owed goods in person.

It sounds like a reverse Boston Tea Party. Quick, what's the opposite of a Native American?

Everyone else?

 HellFire Sin wrote:
Anyone any idea how to claim if not using paypal when maelstrom take your money send you nothing and shaft you. Legal action seems like the only course :(

If you paid with a credit card for £100 or more then your card issuer is equally liable, and will have to refund you. If you paid less than £100 then there is no LEGAL obligation, but many CC companies will help anyway, contact your card issuer

Several debit cards are part of a volunarty scheme which opperated in a similar way to CC protection, again talk to your card issuer about how to take things further.

If you paid via a cheque, or direct from your bank account you're probably in trouble (but talk to your bank anyway, just in case)

If you sent them cash, well keep an eye on thinks and put in a claim with the official reciever/liquidator when appointed. You may get some part of your money back

good luck

Not that it particularly matters now, but my MG order that transferred over to EOTS has now disappeared from the EOTS website too.

I find it shocking that there are still people on the web making excuses for these guys.

Got a full refund from my credit card provider today. Sent them the paperwork last week spoke to them this morning and done.

Important point is my order was only £44 and they didn’t bat an eyelid they just processed it as normal i was told. They were pretty understanding to be honest which was a nice change.

The sad thing is that this debt won’t hang over Rob Lane it will just die with MaelstromGames.

My bank said that it could take up to two months with VISA chargebacks, but they were pretty confident about my prospects.

If you only receive part of your order, are you still entitled to a refund?

ted1138 wrote:
If you only receive part of your order, are you still entitled to a refund?

Its a matter of good faith actually - whether you report the whole transaction to your bank or only the part, which was not fulfilled. If they start digging details and IF MG suddenly start to cooperate, then this would not look that nice and you might get less or no money... But I have no idea who is going to contact MG and what will be the level of communication, but since my bank was asking for English terminology, I guess that they are transferring the info to VISA or something like that.

As it was too late to do a paypal chargeback I checked and for debit cards you can do a chargeback, though it isn't enforced by law. When I called the bank they had no idea what I was talking about so I checked online and it seems customer support aren't told about this (banking conspiracy HOOOOOOOOO). When I found out about this I went to the bank to talk to someone there and they helped me fill out an application. I honestly didn't think anything would come of it but today I received this from paypal:

Hello Daniel Karlsson,

We recently received notice from your credit card company that you filed a
chargeback stating that you did not receive merchandise you paid for.

Please review the details of the disputed transaction below and the steps
for what to do next.


-----------------------------------
Transaction Details
-----------------------------------

Seller's name: Maelstrom Games
Seller's email: [email]webstore@maelstromgames.co.uk[/email]
Seller's Transaction ID: 4TX76381AD700663M


Transaction date: Aug 28, 2012
Transaction amount: -47.91 GBP
Case #: PP-002-073-366-538

With some luck I might be able to get back half of what Maelstrom owes me. I placed 2 orders for 2 DV boxes. The problem with the other transaction is that I was sent money over paypal by a guy I had agreed with to split 2 boxes. As the money was sent to my paypal and then to maelstrom it's not possible for me to dispute that payment any more.
He could dispute it but that would be a dispute against me which would bend me over, put a red gagball in my mouth and play the music from the cellar scene from Pulp Fiction.

I posted the replacement models to the guy this monday so if I get money back from this I will feel a bit better but it still doesn't cover anything because of the value of the replacement models I sent the guy.

So if you paid by debit card it may still be possible to get your money back.

If you got part of your order you should still be covered (via CC or paypal) for the rest

Just claim for whatever is outstanding

(PLEASE don't try to claim for the full order if part did arrive, it's illegal and stupid..... not that I'm saying anybody here would)

mierce-transfers@maelstromgames.co.uk wrote:

Dear [[Bolognesus]],

Mierce Miniatures have offered to fulfil all of the orders made through the Maelstrom Games website (for Mierce Miniatures products only) that, due to Maelstrom Games ceasing trading, cannot now be completed.


YOUR MIERCE MINIATURES ORDERS
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Your Mierce Miniatures orders, and their contents, are listed below:

#12345678901
- 2 x Alassar, Bearer of the Dragon Standard
- 2 x Cynuise of Old, Barrow Knight Banner Bearer
- 1 x Erec One-Arm, Dwarf of Càrn Corm
- 1 x Ornung, Bone Orc Shaman
#23456789012
- 1 x Oácyning, Lord of the Oak-Enta


Mierce Miniatures have offered to fulfil the above orders at their own cost and as a gesture of goodwill towards all Mierce Miniatures customers.

However, because of the limitations of the Data Protection Act, as a Maelstrom Games customer you must agree to share your details and the details of your orders with Mierce Miniatures before they can send your order.

PLEASE AGREE TO SHARE YOUR DETAILS
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In order to fulfil your order, Mierce Miniatures will require you to:

a) have your account details - held by Maelstrom Games - transferred to their website (if you haven't already created an account with Mierce Miniatures)
b) have your outstanding Mierce Miniatures orders transferred to their website, in order to process and send your order to you

If you agree to be registered on the Mierce Miniatures website and agree to the transfer of all of your outstanding orders, please reply to this e-mail before the 30th of November, 2012 stating:

'I would like to be registered on the Mierce Miniatures website, and I would like Maelstrom Games to transfer all my outstanding orders for Mierce Miniatures products to the Mierce Miniatures website in order to fulfil them.'


FULFILLING YOUR ORDER
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Once Mierce Miniatures receives this confirmation from Maelstrom Games, you will be registered on their website and your orders will be transferred automatically. Mierce Miniatures will then contact you and let you know when you can expect to receive your order.

Please note that Mierce Miniatures cannot refund you for your orders under any circumstance - they have only offered to fulfil the orders.

If you do not agree to be registered and to transfer your orders, I am afraid your order cannot now be fulfilled and you will, in due course, be contacted by the Insolvency Practitioner that will deal with Maelstrom Games' liquidation.

good to see some progress there (the other parts of those orders have been reported as shipped already an honestly, in one order that was just a brush, in another it was just 3 of the same blister so there can't possibly be that much missing

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
If you got part of your order you should still be covered (via CC or paypal) for the rest

Just claim for whatever is outstanding

(PLEASE don't try to claim for the full order if part did arrive, it's illegal and stupid..... not that I'm saying anybody here would)

I wouldn't, it's just that from my experience, and from what I've read of others, I thought maybe there was a reason why MG were sending out orders with missing items...

So here is the story as I understood it
MG is expanding from e-commerce to mini production. In order to gain in the long run from higher profit margins and answer back to the GW evil plan of ruling the mini world . To do that they spend a lot of funds in designing, producing and promoting their mini line as a premium product. To a point they succeeded.

They already have a strong card played against their trading competition. Free shipping! An established mini line would lift them even higher. They would have some serious assets and intellectual property instead of just being middleman. The competition worries a lot.

Poor managing decisions and business ethics lead to a substantial amount of dept to suppliers. The giant has clay feet but he is still a giant and able to force his conditions on smaller fish like Simple. They say to them we will pay you soon trust us. The same time they probably owe money to other associates. Then they change it to an informal paying arrangement. Simple worries they won't get their money.

MG already has problems with other suppliers and with customers due to their system of lying about their stocked items (as the whole industry does, to be honest). They start a pyramid system where new orders fund older overdue ones. Simple really worries as probably this kind of dept can cripple them. They go to a dept managing agency or bank and they don't like what they hear at all.

Meanwhile at Wayland the initial terror of an overgrown MG gives place to the hope of buying off a financial cornered competitor. They make an offer which is declined. Is it a bad offer? Is it just stubbornness? Only Rob Lane knows. I don't know the man but usually some businessmen have much in common with gamblers. They think that a good dice will save the day in the end. MG continues to receive orders and execute them problematically. At first they try to deny the problem. Simple freaks out and there comes Wayland with an offer to buy the dept right here right now with more favorable conditions than a bank or dept crows. They sell and get back what they can.

Wayland makes its move. Demands the full payment at an impossible deadline. I think that this move is a combined one. Take out a serious competitor AND a ticking bomb from the foundations of the English wargame industry. I believe them when they say that when MG was going to explode many small to medium companies would be affected. But off course that wasn't the only reason.

MG launches a desperate last charge with a series of sales. They know that they are going under but they deliberately defraud their customers by accepting orders they can't possibly execute. Zero communication, just more and more desperate sales ads. At the end were all is lost some would assume that the company would try to lift the mystery veil. No. They claim maintenance reasons for their closed down eshop. Somewhere on the globe some idiots still believe that everything is ok. After several days they come up with the truth of them closing down. And at the same time they blame Wayland for taking advantage of their leverage on them. Hello Rob! That's why they are called competitors and not friends and family!

 The Stranger wrote:
So here is the story as I understood it
MG is expanding from e-commerce to mini production. In order to gain in the long run from higher profit margins and answer back to the GW evil plan of ruling the mini world . To do that they spend a lot of funds in designing, producing and promoting their mini line as a premium product. To a point they succeeded.

They already have a strong card played against their trading competition. Free shipping! An established mini line would lift them even higher. They would have some serious assets and intellectual property instead of just being middleman. The competition worries a lot.

Poor managing decisions and business ethics lead to a substantial amount of dept to suppliers. The giant has clay feet but he is still a giant and able to force his conditions on smaller fish like Simple. They say to them we will pay you soon trust us. The same time they probably owe money to other associates. Then they change it to an informal paying arrangement. Simple worries they won't get their money.

MG already has problems with other suppliers and with customers due to their system of lying about their stocked items (as the whole industry does, to be honest). They start a pyramid system where new orders fund older overdue ones. Simple really worries as probably this kind of dept can cripple them. They go to a dept managing agency or bank and they don't like what they hear at all.

Meanwhile at Wayland the initial terror of an overgrown MG gives place to the hope of buying off a financial cornered competitor. They make an offer which is declined. Is it a bad offer? Is it just stubbornness? Only Rob Lane knows. I don't know the man but usually some businessmen have much in common with gamblers. They think that a good dice will save the day in the end. MG continues to receive orders and execute them problematically. At first they try to deny the problem. Simple freaks out and there comes Wayland with an offer to buy the dept right here right now with more favorable conditions than a bank or dept crows. They sell and get back what they can.

Wayland makes its move. Demands the full payment at an impossible deadline. I think that this move is a combined one. Take out a serious competitor AND a ticking bomb from the foundations of the English wargame industry. I believe them when they say that when MG was going to explode many small to medium companies would be affected. But off course that wasn't the only reason.

MG launches a desperate last charge with a series of sales. They know that they are going under but they deliberately defraud their customers by accepting orders they can't possibly execute. Zero communication, just more and more desperate sales ads. At the end were all is lost some would assume that the company would try to lift the mystery veil. No. They claim maintenance reasons for their closed down eshop. Somewhere on the globe some idiots still believe that everything is ok. After several days they come up with the truth of them closing down. And at the same time they blame Wayland for taking advantage of their leverage on them. Hello Rob! That's why they are called competitors and not friends and family!

I think you are part way there, but to consider MG a threat to established mini producing companies is a stretch too far. Free shipping isnt really a threat to WG either.

 Mr. Burning wrote:

 The Stranger wrote:
So here is the story as I understood it
MG is expanding from e-commerce to mini production. In order to gain in the long run from higher profit margins and answer back to the GW evil plan of ruling the mini world . To do that they spend a lot of funds in designing, producing and promoting their mini line as a premium product. To a point they succeeded.

They already have a strong card played against their trading competition. Free shipping! An established mini line would lift them even higher. They would have some serious assets and intellectual property instead of just being middleman. The competition worries a lot.

Poor managing decisions and business ethics lead to a substantial amount of dept to suppliers. The giant has clay feet but he is still a giant and able to force his conditions on smaller fish like Simple. They say to them we will pay you soon trust us. The same time they probably owe money to other associates. Then they change it to an informal paying arrangement. Simple worries they won't get their money.

MG already has problems with other suppliers and with customers due to their system of lying about their stocked items (as the whole industry does, to be honest). They start a pyramid system where new orders fund older overdue ones. Simple really worries as probably this kind of dept can cripple them. They go to a dept managing agency or bank and they don't like what they hear at all.

Meanwhile at Wayland the initial terror of an overgrown MG gives place to the hope of buying off a financial cornered competitor. They make an offer which is declined. Is it a bad offer? Is it just stubbornness? Only Rob Lane knows. I don't know the man but usually some businessmen have much in common with gamblers. They think that a good dice will save the day in the end. MG continues to receive orders and execute them problematically. At first they try to deny the problem. Simple freaks out and there comes Wayland with an offer to buy the dept right here right now with more favorable conditions than a bank or dept crows. They sell and get back what they can.

Wayland makes its move. Demands the full payment at an impossible deadline. I think that this move is a combined one. Take out a serious competitor AND a ticking bomb from the foundations of the English wargame industry. I believe them when they say that when MG was going to explode many small to medium companies would be affected. But off course that wasn't the only reason.

MG launches a desperate last charge with a series of sales. They know that they are going under but they deliberately defraud their customers by accepting orders they can't possibly execute. Zero communication, just more and more desperate sales ads. At the end were all is lost some would assume that the company would try to lift the mystery veil. No. They claim maintenance reasons for their closed down eshop. Somewhere on the globe some idiots still believe that everything is ok. After several days they come up with the truth of them closing down. And at the same time they blame Wayland for taking advantage of their leverage on them. Hello Rob! That's why they are called competitors and not friends and family!

I think you are part way there, but to consider MG a threat to established mini producing companies is a stretch too far. Free shipping isnt really a threat to WG either.

I think that they were a threat to the industry due to their immense debts. From what i understand except GW all the other companies are medium to small. Im talking about pure wargamming companies not scalemodel ones. Its common practice in trading for companiew to work with credits. But when a company creates a big debt that can cause the closing down or crippling of a series of assosiates then yes I would call it an industry threat.
As for the free shipping, it was the main reason that non Brits chose MG over WG or any other ventor.

 The Stranger wrote:

 Mr. Burning wrote:

 The Stranger wrote:
So here is the story as I understood it
MG is expanding from e-commerce to mini production. In order to gain in the long run from higher profit margins and answer back to the GW evil plan of ruling the mini world . To do that they spend a lot of funds in designing, producing and promoting their mini line as a premium product. To a point they succeeded.

They already have a strong card played against their trading competition. Free shipping! An established mini line would lift them even higher. They would have some serious assets and intellectual property instead of just being middleman. The competition worries a lot.

Poor managing decisions and business ethics lead to a substantial amount of dept to suppliers. The giant has clay feet but he is still a giant and able to force his conditions on smaller fish like Simple. They say to them we will pay you soon trust us. The same time they probably owe money to other associates. Then they change it to an informal paying arrangement. Simple worries they won't get their money.

MG already has problems with other suppliers and with customers due to their system of lying about their stocked items (as the whole industry does, to be honest). They start a pyramid system where new orders fund older overdue ones. Simple really worries as probably this kind of dept can cripple them. They go to a dept managing agency or bank and they don't like what they hear at all.

Meanwhile at Wayland the initial terror of an overgrown MG gives place to the hope of buying off a financial cornered competitor. They make an offer which is declined. Is it a bad offer? Is it just stubbornness? Only Rob Lane knows. I don't know the man but usually some businessmen have much in common with gamblers. They think that a good dice will save the day in the end. MG continues to receive orders and execute them problematically. At first they try to deny the problem. Simple freaks out and there comes Wayland with an offer to buy the dept right here right now with more favorable conditions than a bank or dept crows. They sell and get back what they can.

Wayland makes its move. Demands the full payment at an impossible deadline. I think that this move is a combined one. Take out a serious competitor AND a ticking bomb from the foundations of the English wargame industry. I believe them when they say that when MG was going to explode many small to medium companies would be affected. But off course that wasn't the only reason.

MG launches a desperate last charge with a series of sales. They know that they are going under but they deliberately defraud their customers by accepting orders they can't possibly execute. Zero communication, just more and more desperate sales ads. At the end were all is lost some would assume that the company would try to lift the mystery veil. No. They claim maintenance reasons for their closed down eshop. Somewhere on the globe some idiots still believe that everything is ok. After several days they come up with the truth of them closing down. And at the same time they blame Wayland for taking advantage of their leverage on them. Hello Rob! That's why they are called competitors and not friends and family!

I think you are part way there, but to consider MG a threat to established mini producing companies is a stretch too far. Free shipping isnt really a threat to WG either.

I think that they were a threat to the industry due to their immense debts. From what i understand except GW all the other companies are medium to small. Im talking about pure wargamming companies not scalemodel ones. Its common practice in trading for companiew to work with credits. But when a company creates a big debt that can cause the closing down or crippling of a series of assosiates then yes I would call it an industry threat.
As for the free shipping, it was the main reason that non Brits chose MG over WG or any other ventor.

Ah, ok. I read your post as MG being a threat due to them producing their own range of minis, not, as we all know, due to the level of debt.

 Mr. Burning wrote:

 The Stranger wrote:

 Mr. Burning wrote:

 The Stranger wrote:
So here is the story as I understood it
MG is expanding from e-commerce to mini production. In order to gain in the long run from higher profit margins and answer back to the GW evil plan of ruling the mini world . To do that they spend a lot of funds in designing, producing and promoting their mini line as a premium product. To a point they succeeded.

They already have a strong card played against their trading competition. Free shipping! An established mini line would lift them even higher. They would have some serious assets and intellectual property instead of just being middleman. The competition worries a lot.

Poor managing decisions and business ethics lead to a substantial amount of dept to suppliers. The giant has clay feet but he is still a giant and able to force his conditions on smaller fish like Simple. They say to them we will pay you soon trust us. The same time they probably owe money to other associates. Then they change it to an informal paying arrangement. Simple worries they won't get their money.

MG already has problems with other suppliers and with customers due to their system of lying about their stocked items (as the whole industry does, to be honest). They start a pyramid system where new orders fund older overdue ones. Simple really worries as probably this kind of dept can cripple them. They go to a dept managing agency or bank and they don't like what they hear at all.

Meanwhile at Wayland the initial terror of an overgrown MG gives place to the hope of buying off a financial cornered competitor. They make an offer which is declined. Is it a bad offer? Is it just stubbornness? Only Rob Lane knows. I don't know the man but usually some businessmen have much in common with gamblers. They think that a good dice will save the day in the end. MG continues to receive orders and execute them problematically. At first they try to deny the problem. Simple freaks out and there comes Wayland with an offer to buy the dept right here right now with more favorable conditions than a bank or dept crows. They sell and get back what they can.

Wayland makes its move. Demands the full payment at an impossible deadline. I think that this move is a combined one. Take out a serious competitor AND a ticking bomb from the foundations of the English wargame industry. I believe them when they say that when MG was going to explode many small to medium companies would be affected. But off course that wasn't the only reason.

MG launches a desperate last charge with a series of sales. They know that they are going under but they deliberately defraud their customers by accepting orders they can't possibly execute. Zero communication, just more and more desperate sales ads. At the end were all is lost some would assume that the company would try to lift the mystery veil. No. They claim maintenance reasons for their closed down eshop. Somewhere on the globe some idiots still believe that everything is ok. After several days they come up with the truth of them closing down. And at the same time they blame Wayland for taking advantage of their leverage on them. Hello Rob! That's why they are called competitors and not friends and family!

I think you are part way there, but to consider MG a threat to established mini producing companies is a stretch too far. Free shipping isnt really a threat to WG either.

I think that they were a threat to the industry due to their immense debts. From what i understand except GW all the other companies are medium to small. Im talking about pure wargamming companies not scalemodel ones. Its common practice in trading for companiew to work with credits. But when a company creates a big debt that can cause the closing down or crippling of a series of assosiates then yes I would call it an industry threat.
As for the free shipping, it was the main reason that non Brits chose MG over WG or any other ventor.

Ah, ok. I read your post as MG being a threat due to them producing their own range of minis, not, as we all know, due to the level of debt.

Producing their own minis would be good for the industry, but for sure bad for their competitors like WG. If it had worked out it would make a huge difference in profit aspects. It was am ambitious move but I think that it was a bad call for a small business. The only way I could see a project like this working out, would be a combined effort of various investors of the industry. The demanded high standards are very expensive. You need to set up a group of assosiates with great skills and pay them much better than the established brands, in order to turn them to you. The same time you have to keep your prices considerably lower in order to root to the community.

Wow, just when I think this FUBAR couldn't get any more FUBAR'd. Saw something on BF official forum advising that BF were going to look into making sure all outstanding customers got any FOW models or money returned. EOTS now has a plethora of FOW stock and what happens go to log into my MG account somehow transferred to EOTS and guess what I can no longer log in. So MG/EOTS now has stock but my transferred account has magically vanished.

I'm assuming and I reiterate I'm only assuming but it seems like MG/EOTS has went cap in hand to BF - please give us some stock so we can help customers - then they've taken that stock and flushed all remaining accounts. Its an assumption but at this moment in time it wouldn't surprise me...