Relic Knights Kickstarter from Soda Pop - The Ongoing Update Thread!

Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:

No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.

If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

**Makaleth**

I am with Alpharius on this one: Unless they add more in to this faster with build up at the end, it will not be anywhere near Sedition Wars.

But, maybe they don't want that.

**Piston Honda**

Makaleth wrote:
I am with Alpharius on this one: Unless they add more in to this faster with build up at the end, it will not be anywhere near Sedition Wars.

But, maybe they don't want that.

you know, you might be right.

Could be CMoN is so overwhelmed with projects right now, they may want to minimize the production levels on this kick starter.

It's not like they don't have a lot going for them.

**DaveC**

If anyone is worried about the booster minis just being more of the same basic minis CMON has posted that whilst not completely modular the minions can be assembled in a variety of poses

**Piston Honda**

Well, RK got a bump from Penny Arcade

wonder if this will boost of their donations?

**Alpharius**

It certainly won't hurt!

Do have a link to the PA 'endorsement'?

**Piston Honda**

Alpharius wrote:
It certainly won't hurt!

Do have a link to the PA 'endorsement'?

http://penny-arcade.com/

It's not a shouting from off the roof tops endorsement, but with the level of traffic they get I assume RK will only benefit from at least a few dozen extra backers.

As suggested previously, I backed some hot sauce on Kickstarter which I understood was bizarre even as I was doing it and I await these “fluids” with an admixture of curiosity and terror.

I love turn based tactics “experiences,” whether they take place in the confines of an LCD or with handfuls of metal and plastic, but I will absolutely admit to being obsessed at this particular moment with the travails of tiny men. We’ve been playing our Warmachine tournaments with a “shot clock,” which (combined with the inescapable physicality of movement and resolution) runs an electric finger up your exposed spinal column.

Until this year, I’ve never attended a single event at San Diego Comic Con that wasn’t related to Penny Arcade in some way. After something like a fething decade, I tracked down the tabletop room and sunk myself into a game called Malifaux that initially made no sense but, by the time I’d completed my first game, my animated doll-witch and her frost fiends had managed to defeat the samurai cowgirl(???).

It was completely diceless, which given my predilection specifically toward dice, worried me. I’ve played games with diceless resolution systems before, but they tend toward the storytelling end of the spectrum. In this case, something like a modified poker deck manages the numbers with solid theme and aplomb. It reminded me of something I’d heard about at PAX East, Relic Knights, which is currently being started via Kick. Their anime/pin-up vibe might not turn your crank, depending on the faction; systemically, though, buying attacks for models with their deck-based mana equivalent and tying draw to their actions got me cranked up.

There’s three days left on the Bones” Kickstarter Reaper is running, and it’s gone completely flying rodent gak since I looked last. It’s at almost a million and a half dollars, in large part because (like the most successful iterations of the model) it has a “happy medium” style pledge that swells with loot as the stretch goals are reached. Called “Vampire” - like Zombicide’s “Abomination,” or Sedition Wars’ “Biohazard” - it’s plump to the point now where it’s almost a “what the feth” scenario. It’s a good thing that the Bones line being funded consists of plastic minis, because if they fulfilled this order in pewter or white metal it would influence the tilt of the earth, killing billions.

(CW)TB out.

**Alpharius**

This is the more telling part of the quote:

There’s three days left on the Bones” Kickstarter Reaper is running, and it’s gone completely flying rodent gak since I looked last. It’s at almost a million and a half dollars, in large part because (like the most successful iterations of the model) it has a “happy medium” style pledge that swells with loot as the stretch goals are reached. Called “Vampire” - like Zombicide’s “Abomination,” or Sedition Wars’ “Biohazard” - it’s plump to the point now where it’s almost a “what the feth” scenario.

Note the references to Zombicide and Sedition Wars and their 100 dollar pledge levels/rewards. (Never mind Reaper!)

If Relic Knights ends up being a 'disappointment', well, I think we'll know why!

I'll still probably be in for Savior though...

The Noh and Black Diamond are too nice - and I'm getting tempted by the Speed Circuit too!

**Piston Honda**

I can't really judge the disappointment or fulfilling feeling of a KS campaign based on just the number of minis I got at a pledge level.

In particular I am in on a KS for first and foremost for the game, the quality of the theme and miniatures. The number of miniatures takes a back seat, especially in the case of Relic Knight which a squad for the game really only consists of ~6 to 8 minis.

If you are more into the painting aspect of the Hobby or would like to have a ton of minis to use for other games (such as Reaper's Bones) than I could say those are the people who want a ton more minis for your money as appose to just a gamer looking for a high quality product in addition to high quality gaming supplements.

The number of minis is not the turn off for me, it's the strong anime flavor, and the poses for the women are more suited for a display model rather than a pose for combat.

**Alpharius**

I'm not going to go round and round with you on this one - you're either missing the point or, as you seem to be intimating, you don't care.

In that case - good for you!

I still think that the goal of these things is to generate as much income/pre-orders NOW in order to be deemed successful in terms of launching the brand, growing interest and paving the way for future success.

What I'm saying is that CMON could be doing all of those things a bit better than they are, especially as this game would seem to have more staying power than something like Zombicide.

Tough to compete with Sedition Wars though, sure - but this one sort of appeals to the same/slightly different audience at the same time - so room for growth there...

**whalemusic360**

I see the added value people derive from quantity, but I'm with piston in a lack of caring. I'd rather have fewer, better models witha more solid game backbone then a bunch of them that I can think of no use for.

**Makaleth**

I think Alpharius is referring to success equating to "more" funding, being linked to more models.

If the relic knights added a single model per pack for each goal I think it would be going better.

Or a better reveal of what the later stage ones are.
I think the same of the Dreamforge one.

All of the REALLY major ones I have been in have gained momentum because the volume of models kept attracting more people. Just having good rules and models is what attracts people to the game that already would be attracted or attracted them to the start of the kickstarter. The sheer volume of models is a big difference. Just look at what is happening to Reaper. Once it hits a certain point it just gains momentum

**whalemusic360**

Yeah, I get that. I'd love to see it higher on the "success" chart. It won't hit Zombicide I'm sure, but I will enjoy it all the same.

**Bat Manuel**

Makaleth wrote:
I think Alpharius is referring to success equating to "more" funding, being linked to more models.

If the relic knights added a single model per pack for each goal I think it would be going better.

Or a better reveal of what the later stage ones are.
I think the same of the Dreamforge one.

All of the REALLY major ones I have been in have gained momentum because the volume of models kept attracting more people. Just having good rules and models is what attracts people to the game that already would be attracted or attracted them to the start of the kickstarter. The sheer volume of models is a big difference. Just look at what is happening to Reaper. Once it hits a certain point it just gains momentum

They could be re-working the next goals *hint, hint* to more reasonable levels.

**Alpharius**

All stretch goals reached - anyone have any hints of what's next?

**DaveC**

Regarding the unlocked minions CMON also posted the following just now:

Regarding extra minions etc, we're working on alternate heads / weapons for the minions so you can mix and match to create more variety!

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Next up -

$240k - Cosplay Fiametta as Sailor Scout

$260k - Boost 2 contents as follows (sneak peek in silhouettes but easy enough to work out except the Noh who is totally new) 1 per faction starter selected

Noh Empire - Female with hooved/beast type legs bow and quiver (new sculpt)
Black Diamond - 3 female Ninjas (new sculpts)
Shattered Sword - Isabeau Durand
Doctrine - Codifier Togan and Cecilia
Cerci - Rin Farrah
Star Nebula Corasirs - Iron Chef

$280k - Cosplay Iron Chef

$300k - Boost EX - unknown at this time

That's a nice boost at level 2

**kenshin620**

These boosts will certainly help the game

Though the notion of "If it doesnt give you 20-30 free models, it is not enticing/successful" does make me worried people are going to expect every and all kickstarters to give out free stuff

Not that I'm saying thats a bad practice. I backed Zombicide and Sedition because it gave a lot of free stuff. And reaper is giving out tons of free stuff.

But not all games are equipped to give out tons of free stuff. Some games just want to launch a line

**BlueDagger**

The Cerci and Star Nebula boost 2 are a serious letdown. You get Rin Farrah/Iron Chief... which have Cosplay variants. Granted you could use that LE model selection for another model, but if you want something for your faction you are going to get duplicates.

The Fiametta Cosplay sealed me on going Doctrine. I wasn't a fan of the original fiametta sculpt, but the concept art for the Cosplay looks fantastic and will fit in great with the Prefects. Getting Master Roshi... er I mean Codifier Togan is just a perk.

**Bolognesus**

kenshin620 wrote:
These boosts will certainly help the game

Though the notion of "If it doesnt give you 20-30 free models, it is not enticing/successful" does make me worried people are going to expect every and all kickstarters to give out free stuff

Not that I'm saying thats a bad practice. I backed Zombicide and Sedition because it gave a lot of free stuff. And reaper is giving out tons of free stuff.

But not all games are equipped to give out tons of free stuff. Some games just want to launch a line

Really though, why should I pay months in advance to preorder something I could just as well get at retail, and probably cheaper from a discounter? there **should** be some incentive... extra models from molds which have already been made are good for that - they don't actually cost all that much to produce even though you'd have to pay quite a bit to buy them at or near retail later...

**DaveC**

The rumour is that Boost EX is each factions Questing Knight

that would be

Noh - Zineda and Spite
Black Diamond - Leopold Magnus and Static
Shattered Sword Paladins - Francis Malory and Quill
Doctrine - Delphyne and Ekhis

Now the other 2 don't really have questing knights as such yet but they could be

Cerci - Suicide Queen and Rollo
Star Nebula Corsairs - Moffet and ?

Remember just rumour at this stage no confirmation

**Piston Honda**

Bolognesus wrote:
kenshin620 wrote:
These boosts will certainly help the game

Though the notion of "If it doesnt give you 20-30 free models, it is not enticing/successful" does make me worried people are going to expect every and all kickstarters to give out free stuff

Not that I'm saying thats a bad practice. I backed Zombicide and Sedition because it gave a lot of free stuff. And reaper is giving out tons of free stuff.

But not all games are equipped to give out tons of free stuff. Some games just want to launch a line

Really though, why should I pay months in advance to preorder something I could just as well get at retail, and probably cheaper from a discounter? there **should** be some incentive... extra models from molds which have already been made are good for that - they don't actually cost all that much to produce even though you'd have to pay quite a bit to buy them at or near retail later...

the incentive is the Limited Edition Models.

Basically telling you only real way to guarantee to get them is KS or conventions and will be printed for a limited time.

only other possible way would end up paying someone on ebay for a lot more money.

**kenshin620**

Bolognesus wrote:
kenshin620 wrote:
These boosts will certainly help the game

Though the notion of "If it doesnt give you 20-30 free models, it is not enticing/successful" does make me worried people are going to expect every and all kickstarters to give out free stuff

Not that I'm saying thats a bad practice. I backed Zombicide and Sedition because it gave a lot of free stuff. And reaper is giving out tons of free stuff.

But not all games are equipped to give out tons of free stuff. Some games just want to launch a line

Really though, why should I pay months in advance to preorder something I could just as well get at retail, and probably cheaper from a discounter? there **should** be some incentive... extra models from molds which have already been made are good for that - they don't actually cost all that much to produce even though you'd have to pay quite a bit to buy them at or near retail later...

Oh well no doubt there should be some incentives

But saying "We should be getting +20 extra models" is a bit much from what I gather from the chatter of zombicide and sedition wars. For all we know, we're getting a discount anyways assuming each battle set is $50, ergo you're getting the rulebook for free

**DaveC**

Each faction starter set is likely to be about $75 retail without the rulebook just the quickstarter rules

**AlexHolker**

kenshin620 wrote:
Though the notion of "If it doesnt give you 20-30 free models, it is not enticing/successful" does make me worried people are going to expect every and all kickstarters to give out free stuff

I think they could get away with not using the "Throw gak at the wall and see what sticks" approach if they made a greater effort to have the rewards line up with what people actually wanted. I mean, if you had the choice between one of each Bones model or a $200 gift voucher to buy whatever Bones models you wanted, which would you prefer? The one that got you multiples of the models you liked best, and none of the ebay fodder?

**OrlandotheTechnicoloured**

Sorry no Gift Vouchers allowed on KS

(LOL)

**RogueRegault**

BlueDagger wrote:
The Cerci and Star Nebula boost 2 are a serious letdown. You get Rin Farrah/Iron Chief... which have Cosplay variants. Granted you could use that LE model selection for another model, but if you want something for your faction you are going to get duplicates.

The Fiametta Cosplay sealed me on going Doctrine. I wasn't a fan of the original fiametta sculpt, but the concept art for the Cosplay looks fantastic and will fit in great with the Prefects. Getting Master Roshi... er I mean Codifier Togan is just a perk.

Especially annoying is with the missing elements of the Rin cosplay (The ponytail, the skull barrette and other hair ornaments) the model is basically "Rin in a bikini."

Doctrine seems to miss out on Boost level 1 though. I'll probably stick with Cerci but there's a good chance my brother will swap from Star Nebula to Noh.

**DaveC**

The Cosplay minis will have variant rules and cards - despite repeated requests they haven't added this information yet as the question of what to do with cosplay alternates of existing characters keeps coming up.

**Alpharius**

DaveC wrote:
The Cosplay minis will have variant rules and cards - despite repeated requests they haven't added this information yet as the question of what to do with cosplay alternates of existing characters keeps coming up.

That is good to know - thanks!

**Bolognesus**

kenshin620 wrote:
Bolognesus wrote:
kenshin620 wrote:
These boosts will certainly help the game

Though the notion of "If it doesnt give you 20-30 free models, it is not enticing/successful" does make me worried people are going to expect every and all kickstarters to give out free stuff

Not that I'm saying thats a bad practice. I backed Zombicide and Sedition because it gave a lot of free stuff. And reaper is giving out tons of free stuff.

But not all games are equipped to give out tons of free stuff. Some games just want to launch a line

Really though, why should I pay months in advance to preorder something I could just as well get at retail, and probably cheaper from a discounter? there **should** be some incentive... extra models from molds which have already been made are good for that - they don't actually cost all that much to produce even though you'd have to pay quite a bit to buy them at or near retail later...

Oh well no doubt there should be some incentives

But saying "We should be getting +20 extra models" is a bit much from what I gather from the chatter of zombicide and sedition wars. For all we know, we're getting a discount anyways assuming each battle set is $50, ergo you're getting the rulebook for free

...a discount you'd get just the same if you buy from a discounter after release.
limited minis are fine, but they appeal to people already invested in a system. that's all good, but for a kickstarter project to really shine you'd want it to bring in new customers. Many of those don't care about having a character in a 'special' pose, or perhaps an altogether limited mini, but giving them *more* stuff, which actually makes the game a better value for someone not too heavily invested, that piques a lot of folks' interest.
of course a balanced mixture is best.
One problem with the "more minis" strategy might be that RK seems to be a decidedly low mini-count game - I don't know, not interested in the style so I won't be buying, just following this to see what CMoN will pull out of their hat now - so it wouldn't actually make sense.

**Alpharius**

Not really - they are asking for a loan without interest - there really should be some incentives in order to make this attractive and 'reward' the 'faith' of the backers.

And keep in mind, this project isn't due to ship until MAY 2013!

There are NO guarantees via Kickstarter - the rewards should balance out the risks!

**Taarnak**

DaveC wrote:
Each faction starter set is likely to be about $75 retail without the rulebook just the quickstarter rules

Is that known, or are you guessing?

Because given that they are moving to plastic, that seems very, very high for what you get. Also, if that is the case, I'll pass for sure.

~Eric