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Thanks Dave, Still on the fence about Noh... but as HBMC is now coming in on this kcikstarter I might just get it for another faction to play...

No interest in Doctrine (other than the Cat model! and Prefects) and none what so every for Star Nebula...

Black Diamond though it looking better everytime I see the models, just love them.

Would any one in the US be willing to throw $20 onto their pledge so I could get the SDE characters?
I will also cover any shipping charges.

Let's wait until we see how many SDE characters we get. Currently there's 1 with a goal for another 1. There might be more to come!

 Empchild wrote:

 PsychoticStorm wrote:


Two side questions, has anybody asked if Black Diamond corp get female models too or they are the only male only minions and can we get triplicates of the same starter, I know the say "even duplicates", but I am unsure if that's a hard limit or they never expected somebody not wanting any other faction.

See by this question alone I know you aren't even looking before you type and that kinda annoys me on this one. They hit 400k btw this morning so base inserts it is. As for the people who stated about the concepts and the models you do realise that these are pretty spot on right? I mean sure in practical senses their is some variation but when I look at the finished vs looking at the model I see what they drew.

I can see what they're trying to do, and some are better than others, but some are (unfortunately) just awful translations of decent concept art. Others look poor in terms of concept art (the Black troopers) but quite decent as sculpts. I've linked the picture that illustrates the issue pretty well earlier in the thread - and at work now so can't get it again.

@Scipio: Sorry, where is the link? I also agree, didn't want the Black Diamond as there were too many of the troopers... until I saw the sculpts

Black Diamond will be real sweet, if the EX2 is unlocked each starter will have two APCs in it!! (I'll be taking two of those starters and thus have a small army! )

Shattred Sword is looking equally sweet, with the EX2 just making it sweeter...

A little disappointed that the Cerci EX2 is another of those PACE Robots, they are big, but not the most exciting of things. Would have FAR preferred another 3 Hell's Belles to make 10 jetbikes in the KS.

The APC is great, I see people jumping on that to get 2 of those for sure.

 Makaleth wrote:
@Scipio: Sorry, where is the link? I also agree, didn't want the Black Diamond as there were too many of the troopers... until I saw the sculpts

The demon-guy is ok, but look at the difference between the concept art for the girl and the execution. Cape and Hair. The face of the model is OK but not anime-style at all. And I don't know what is going on with her hips and thigh area. The model isn't the worst figure I've ever seen or anything, but I wouldn't pay money to buy it, either.


There's also a fairly big disconnect between the execution of these models and their concept art as well that makes me veeeery cautious about giving these guys money. I'd probably buy cat-girl here if she looked more like the art.







I also wonder why they don't show the other models that they've completed - the ones they showed off at GenCon? The ones that actually look good. A crappy 2-second still from a video camera isn't quite the same as some proper photos, after all.

With a 50mm base I am not sure I would cal it an APC, it is probably a tracked drone.

I'll second Scipio's skepticism of Soda Pop's execution of their concept art. Especially with that Kisa sculpt. The mounted Kisa is ugly and that's with a professional paint job. I'd buy ten of them if they were more like the artwork.

This one, however, inspires more confidence:



I really want to like the Shattered Sword Paladins so I can use them as SoB and other 40k power-armored proxies. Their named characters are good. The rank and file troops? Not so much.

Example (also professionally painted):


More examples taken from KS video:




Right now, I'd probably go Black Diamond based on the models alone. Although I don't plan on playing Relic Knights so I might end up getting the Noh or Space Corsairs or maybe not pledge at all.

Some of the minis are going to undergo either modifications or resculpts before they turned into plastic SPM have already acknowledged that some parts are below par and want to resolve this. If your not convinced best to wait until they hit retail to decide.

Below is the original version of Isabeau painted and the newer version with a modified head so they have changed minis before

That's actually a great example. I really liked her concept art, but the face didn't up to the artwork. That new head is a big improvement.

Dentry wrote:
I'll second Scipio's skepticism of Soda Pop's execution of their concept art. Especially with that Kisa sculpt. The mounted Kisa is ugly and that's with a professional paint job. I'd buy ten of them if they were more like the artwork.
Right now, I'd probably go Black Diamond based on the models alone. Although I don't plan on playing Relic Knights so I might end up getting the Noh or Space Corsairs or maybe not pledge at all.

With Soda pop minis the painter brings out the look more than with other minis. Too many painters just try to paint them like a warhammer mini instead of painting them as though they are canvas. For better examples









It all comes down to making the nose and eyes look cel shaded.

Also I was at Gen Con and those minis were not pro. They looked like minis they rushed an employee to have for a display.
My company had to do the same thing for our demo minis.

I don't really understand why you two feel a need to let the internet know what you want changed. Do either of you actually look at your posts? It's like you think the KS or Soda Pop are going to change things up because you two don't like the direction. I personally love the fact they they are targeting the whole anime audience. Cerci has Ghost in the Shell and Akira flavor, Noh has an Inuyasha vibe, Corsairs are Big O and Bebop, Paladins have a Thundarian Ogre....etc. I also love the freshness of the gameplay (No random rolls, card flips, or range limits). And I am grateful for every stretch goal they provide us with. Not to mention they have posted beta components for people to try before they buy. If you don't like what you see at least be fair and wait until closer to release (next summer) to voice concerns.

I'll be honest. I'm in it for Kisa on giant cat. I really really hope they fix the head before they release it >_<

Oh goody. A brand-new poster come here to white knight Soda Pop, Relic Knights and everything that they stand for. Wait, I'll do it "in character".

A new challenger enters.

Curator wrote:

Dentry wrote:
I'll second Scipio's skepticism of Soda Pop's execution of their concept art. Especially with that Kisa sculpt. The mounted Kisa is ugly and that's with a professional paint job. I'd buy ten of them if they were more like the artwork.
Right now, I'd probably go Black Diamond based on the models alone. Although I don't plan on playing Relic Knights so I might end up getting the Noh or Space Corsairs or maybe not pledge at all.

With Soda pop minis the painter brings out the look more than with other minis. Too many painters just try to paint them like a warhammer mini instead of painting them as though they are canvas. For better examples
(pro painted figures deleted - thanks for the pics, BTW!)
It all comes down to making the nose and eyes look cel shaded.

Now you realise that most people won't ever be able to paint their figures like that or to that standard? And that most people will in fact "paint them like a warhammer mini"?

Also I was at Gen Con and those minis were not pro. They looked like minis they rushed an employee to have for a display.
My company had to do the same thing for our demo minis.

Um.... and?

My point is that they do in fact have sculpts for many of these figures, and it makes no sense at all why they're not showing them. Instead they are showing concept art, which as we all know can very much go either way. The Noh figures look quite nice overall, and what I can see of the Black Diamond also look decent. Why not show them?

I don't really understand why you two feel a need to let the internet know what you want changed. Do either of you actually look at your posts? It's like you think the KS or Soda Pop are going to change things up because you two don't like the direction. I personally love the fact they they are targeting the whole anime audience. Cerci has Ghost in the Shell and Akira flavor, Noh has an Inuyasha vibe, Corsairs are Big O and Bebop, Paladins have a Thundarian Ogre....etc. I also love the freshness of the gameplay (No random rolls, card flips, or range limits). And I am grateful for every stretch goal they provide us with. Not to mention they have posted beta components for people to try before they buy. If you don't like what you see at least be fair and wait until closer to release (next summer) to voice concerns.

OK, your weea-boo otaku is showing here, so I'll break it down simply. This here discussion forum is as a forum for discussion. It's not simply a fanboi-topia for gushing about how grateful we are to GW, or Mantic, Or Soda Pop or anyone else. You also seem to lack in reading comprehension, as I have no problem with an anime style, nor have I ever claimed to. Of course my own experience with Anime has been with OAV that's concerned with more than giant titties. More seriously, I look at everything with a critical eye and not through rose-tinted fanboi goggles. If there's something on general release that I dislike, that's easy enough to simply ignore. If there's something asking for my money today with the promise of them giving me product in 6 weeks or 6 months, you can be damned sure I'll look at it carefully and critically.

But above all, and it's certainly worth reiterating, I'm expressing concern that they're showing us the concept art instead of the models. I'm expressing this concern because the concept art is overall of a very high quality while the figures range from OARSOME to OARFUL. In case you didn't look at my posts (see what I did there?) before wading in with a mild flame, I was one of the first backers on this site, pulled out and am now considering going back in, if only I could see the models properly. (Thanks for the redux example, DaveC). I don't believe I've said anything at all regarding their system.

Oh yeah. One more thing. They're asking us to pledge/give them our money, and they're doing so now. How is it "unfair" to have or discuss concerns now?

Thanks for that Kisa pic, that is phenomenal!

Also have to agree with scipio, actual models (if available) always better than concept art, inevitably you are not going to be exactly the same... hence a risk that it's better or worse than the art itself.

As most people are risk adverse with money (note I say most) reducing this risk is always a good thing if the models are good. The only reason not to show them would be if they were bad (which I doubt... seeing that I am in on this KS)

 scipio.au wrote:
OK, your weea-boo otaku is showing here...

And that's the point I stopped reading (and I agree with you on the actual vs concept art thing). I don't like anime, but I don't just dismiss the entire sub-culture with an 4Chan-esque put-down.

And discussing it now makes a lot more sense than discussing it months down the road, when everything IS locked in and changes are really impossible to make.

It has already been noted that they DO listen to feedback AND make changes based upon that feedback - that's actually a good thing!

There's no way every project is going to be just perfect for everyone, but to date in this thread we've had far more constructive criticism than not - and we should strive to keep it that way.

Changing a few of the more dire female heads would get them a lot more of my money, that's for sure.

And looking at Isabeau (how would you pronounce that? Is-ah-bow? Is-ah-boo?), it seems that they're making those changes.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 scipio.au wrote:
OK, your weea-boo otaku is showing here...

And that's the point I stopped reading (and I agree with you on the actual vs concept art thing). I don't like anime, but I don't just dismiss the entire sub-culture with an 4Chan-esque put-down.

/shrug. It was used to illustrate the level of fanboi used by the poster I was replying to. Especially in light of the fact that he was accusing me of various things that I never actually said or even insinuated.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
And looking at Isabeau (how would you pronounce that? Is-ah-bow? Is-ah-boo?), it seems that they're making those changes.

Unfortunately, it's impossible to know what they're doing when there doesn't seem to have been any attempt to communicate it to the (potentially) paying fanbase.

DaveC's post above is unfortunately more useful and illustrative than most of their Kickstarter page. - Where they're unfortunately still showing the dire Kenobo (or is it Squall?) model on the main page when they could be showing the redux Isabeau. Or almost any of the better stuff in that GenCon video. The DiamondBack Assault Armour actually looks far better in the model form than as concept art. Hell, it took a rather unhappy 1st-poster's mild flame to get to see a decent picture of the Zindea figure. Why is that one not front and centre on their KS page? (next to the concept art, sure). Showing the model for Kasaro-to is what got me interested in this thing again, instead of mostly ignoring it.

Maybe they are not showing the models because these are the metal/ resin models, the models they intend to produce will be plastic and by definition they will be different, because plastic has its inherent issues with undercuts.

 scipio.au wrote:
I will say that the Noh stuff shown so far looks pretty cool though. They could tempt me in if there was another faction that looked as good. Most everything else looks like doggy-style balloon-breasts though. Except the paladins, but they're sadly not nearly as nice as the Noh.

If you can find a replacement for One-Shot, the only females in Black Diamond are the head of the Black Dragons, who's wearing bulky armour, and the Suspect-7 ninjas, who are toned down in the actual sculpt (sadly ):

scipio.au wrote:I can see what they're trying to do, and some are better than others, but some are (unfortunately) just awful translations of decent concept art. Others look poor in terms of concept art (the Black troopers) but quite decent as sculpts. I've linked the picture that illustrates the issue pretty well earlier in the thread - and at work now so can't get it again.

Heh, I was besotted with the concept art and sorely disappointed with the sculpts - which is part of why I've been flip-flopping and agonising over whether to go in on this or not all week - but after looking at that video on the previous page I think I'm okay with them if I give them new helmets. Poor studio paintjobs are a major problem. Though if what the fanboy says is true they're difficult to paint well. Not that you'd be able to tell the difference in my case. Some figures, like One-Shot's relic knight, I didn't like until I saw the sculptor's greens (and I'm still ripping the arms off the thing ). Here's three of the sculptors blogs if anyone's interested:

http://artmikh.blogspot.co.nz/
http://monster-zer0.blogspot.co.nz/
http://cruxko.com/

The interesting thing I discovered from looking through those sculptors' sites is that the "translation loss" is not always the sculptor's fault at all - the blandification often occurs at the reference drawing stage and that sculptor's just creating the figure they were directed to. And sometimes the flaw is in the concept art; oh hai Malya's relic knight and your silly flat feet. (On a random note, did anyone else notice that Malya received a sex change in those summary posters? )

Incidentally, that Noh guy is actually a good representation of the concept art; it's just a poor angle:



I'm glad to hear they're going to fix the older sculpts. Quality-wise it's like the difference between the old and new Infinity sculpts. Not that these guys are up to Infinity's level yet but it's that sort of gap. And some of them should mix reasonably well, at least with ALEPH or Nomads *mmmmm, Bakunin biker chicks....* This is a Reverend Custodier next to Rin Farrah:

Makaleth wrote:A little disappointed that the Cerci EX2 is another of those PACE Robots, they are big, but not the most exciting of things. Would have FAR preferred another 3 Hell's Belles to make 10 jetbikes in the KS.

The APC is great, I see people jumping on that to get 2 of those for sure.

Drones are perfect! Unless I come to my senses in the next few days I am so in for Black Diamond and Cerci Speed Circuit. I was originally interested in Noh Empire but I don't care for the men - except for the one with the gun - and the relic knight, while exquisitely sculpted, is hilariously skinny. CSC should scratch a hot-rod itch I've had since first seeing the AT-43 Karman vehicles, plus I figure the bikers will come with the helmets shown in some of the renders which should make them look less silly.

Anime Military (Black Diamond)
Solid Kitty-Kat
Big smashy robot (Diamondback)
Two tank drones
Three ninjas
Twelve soldiers with a really big gun

vs.

Anime Biker Gang (Cerci Speed Circuit)
Not-Morrigan
Medium melee mech (Malya)
Medium ranged mech (One-Shot - the styling is close enough to match, they both have motorcycle-style controls, and both Fritz and Rollo have a Pickelhaube)
Two drones
Sniper (who I'm going to have to add a jetpack to, somehow, poking out through the hair to keep with the mobility theme)
Seven biker chicks

Should be an interesting vignette. (Oh, and there's also Magnus, but he doesn't really fit in either theme. Maybe as a military bot. We'll see.)


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 scipio.au wrote:
The DiamondBack Assault Armour actually looks far better in the model form than as concept art.

But...but...the feet are too big, the head too small and it's all blocky. Why, man, why?

 Construct wrote:

Here's three of the sculptors blogs if anyone's interested:

http://cruxko.com/

The interesting thing I discovered from looking through those sculptors' sites is that the "translation loss" is not always the sculptor's fault at all - the blandification often occurs at the reference drawing stage and that sculptor's just creating the figure they were directed to. And sometimes the flaw is in the concept art; oh hai Malya's relic knight and your silly flat feet. (On a random note, did anyone else notice that Malya received a sex change in those summary posters? )

And looks like the terrible accident that befell Kisa's face happened in molding, as the 3D model is perfect.

If you see first generation warhammer sculpts, we can't really complain :p Give them time to grow, I think they are doing a good job tbh.

Yeah, but if no one complained then how would they know what needs improvement, or indeed if anything needed changing at all?

I just wish Soda Pop would have put this information out front and center. Like I had no idea there were helmeted heads for the Hells Belles racers, or two different sculpts for the beserkers (and wolves), etc

It'd also be great to know what models are getting changes made, because I agree with a lot of the posts above, that many of the models faces didn't quite make the transition from art to sculpt, and instead of being adorable, look goofy or worse.

Hey, is there any way of getting 4x Savior? (I'm not insane, a friend asked me to pledge in his name, too)

lord blackfang you can stack pledge levels so if you want 4x Savior pledge GGEA and add an extra $100 for another savior (no discount unfortunately) and any extra postage if relevant the CKPM will sort it all out.

So it would be GGEA $270 plus $100 for Savior plus $100 for shipping = $470 before extras

 Sidstyler wrote:
Yeah, but if no one complained then how would they know what needs improvement, or indeed if anything needed changing at all?

Constructive criticism is a small company's biggest friend, IMO. Or any company for that matter.

Can't tell a company how to run themselves, but if I had a miniature company I would want to hear people's complaints, whether I agree with it or not, feed back is important. If I had fan boys, don't think they would like me for very long, I would tell them to sit down an STFU.