Daemons of Chaos Rumours (Fantasy & 40k) - First post updated with release list, prices, and pics!

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**undertow**

gorgon wrote:
undertow wrote:
gorgon wrote:
Again, given that it SEEMS as though Kelly is driving players toward fewer MCs and more horde-y armies, there's some reason to think Horrors are going to benefit in other ways.

The problem for me is that MCs are one of the main things that attracted me to Daemons in the first place. It seems like we're being encouraged to run Heralds, which really makes me sad.

They gotta change thing$ up for the exi$ting player$. Either that comes in the form of desirable new units (see Deathwing Knights, Ravenwing Knights, Darkshrouds, etc.) or in the form of composition shake-ups. I'm a Tyranid player, so I've been through plenty of the latter.

I suppose they need to make sure that you can't just use your existing army as-is. If Daemon Princes were still good and still Heavy Support choices, there'd be no need to buy the new chariots. I've only been playing 40k for about two years, and Daemons for a bit more than half of that. This is the first time and army I've played has gone through a new codex.

At least I have a Soulginder to take up a Heavy Slot until I can fully read the new rules.

**Leth**

Damn, I was hoping fateweaver would lose re-roll. That power is just obnoxious. That is unless it goes to models in range instead of unit in range. Then it is okay.

Any word on epidemius?

**Hulksmash**

pretre wrote:
Natfka wrote:Heralds: have +1 to weapon skill, wounds, initiative, attack and have LD 9-10
Soul grinder has sky fire in profile (220pts base)

All daemon units have a 5+ invulnerable save as standard.
There is upgrades to give heralds 3+ and even 2+ save (although it is very expensive)

Greater daemons are beasts – the keeper of secrets have 6 base attacks and gains more attacks for every kill. She also has rending.

Blood thirster- has amazing stat line:
WS BS S T W A I LD SV
10 5 8 7 5 5 5 10 4+

Re- rolls all failed to hit and to wound.
All greater daemons have the option for 2+ save – although it is on the 65pts+ mark

Fate weaver can make a enemy hero turn into a spawn if they fail an invulnerble save.
Still re-rolls saves (but only invulnerable – no longer armour)

Basic troops stay the same, points have been reduced minimal
Bloodletters – reduced by a point
Daemonettes – reduced by 2 points but are now strength 4 on the charge.
Plague bearers – reduced by 3 points a model but have lost feel no pain but gained shrouded.
Pink horrors- increased by 2 points but have better saves.

Blood crushers are now monstrous beasts and have rage. (They are really expensive)
Beast of nurgle are vastly improved – and have gone up in cost by 30+ points

Physic powers are a bit to random and can hurt you badly if you roll badly
Nurgle is the best of a bad bunch.

Point drop on the Daemonettes, Bloodletters, and PB's doesn't sound high enough. But, depending on how banners and other things work I could see why they'd only get the pricebreak they do.

Beasts at 65+ points per model is pretty crazy. Granted they'd be a shrouded beast that can regain wounds (and they have 4!) so that's not actually that crazy. Monstrous Beasts is a new unit type (i guess) so we'll have to see what that means if they are going to bump them past 40 points per model.

Horrors could be very, very interesting. Divination is a hardcore chart. And if you get a big squad and pull down the re-roll everything power that targets the psyker they would be insane. And if you can get up to lvl 4 there is a decent chance of that happening. I can see the reason for the point increase, hopefully they still have a base range attack, not a psychic one.

220 for the Soulgrinder means it better come with every option. That is crazy expensive for an AV13 vehicle in this edition.

We'll have to see about daemonic instability. Either way it looks interesting at least. I'm looking forward to the actual rules.

**Leth**

Also I just imagine Tzeench troops with divination, suddenly thousand sons dont look as bad.......

**blood reaper**

*Delete*

**pretre**

@Hulk: Having a level 4 unit just opens up all sorts of shenanigans depending on which charts they can roll on.

Double Telepathy? Yikes!

**AresX8**

I'm approaching the Daemon book as the second half to the CSM book. I'm not seeing the two books as separate codices, but rather as one giant one. When viewed in this manner, the holes that CSM have seem to be plugged from what we know so far.

**Sasori**

I'm going out a limb here, and saying I doubt that Bloodcrushers are "Monstrous Beasts" I'm betting there was just some kind of crossed wires with the fantasy version, which would be monstrous cav.

I'm betting Bloodcrushers will be just plain ole cavalry, after all, a Khorne Lord on a Juggernaut is in the CSM dex.

**tarnish**

Seems Plague bearers will be the new must-have troops with only 12 points and excellent cover saves.

**Hulksmash**

pretre wrote:
@Hulk: Having a level 4 unit just opens up all sorts of shenanigans depending on which charts they can roll on.

Double Telepathy? Yikes!

Precognition on Divination or Invisibility on Telepathy are equally sick. On increases survivability and damage output significantly and the other just makes you nearly impossible to kill in cover with the mark of tzeentch (basically rerollable 2++)

**Xeriapt**

tarnish wrote:
Seems Plague bearers will be the new must-have troops with only 12 points and excellent cover saves.

Didnt everyone already normally use them in most lists?

Also those horrors better be damn good for pts increase.

**pretre**

Hulksmash wrote:
pretre wrote:
@Hulk: Having a level 4 unit just opens up all sorts of shenanigans depending on which charts they can roll on.

Double Telepathy? Yikes!

Precognition on Divination or Invisibility on Telepathy are equally sick. On increases survivability and damage output significantly and the other just makes you nearly impossible to kill in cover with the mark of tzeentch (basically rerollable 2++)

Well, plus with Lv 4, they can do multiple nasties.

**Sasori**

pretre wrote:
Hulksmash wrote:
pretre wrote:
@Hulk: Having a level 4 unit just opens up all sorts of shenanigans depending on which charts they can roll on.

Double Telepathy? Yikes!

Precognition on Divination or Invisibility on Telepathy are equally sick. On increases survivability and damage output significantly and the other just makes you nearly impossible to kill in cover with the mark of tzeentch (basically rerollable 2++)

Well, plus with Lv 4, they can do multiple nasties.

I could actually see the points increase, if they get a mastery level for every, say 5? models, up to level 4. I just hope their shooting isn't tied to it.

Watch them get their own chart and not be able to roll on rulebook powers. GW loves it's charts recently...

**Hulksmash**

I could it being required to take one power from your god powers similar to the CSM book but they won't be pulling them all out. And since they have heralds using divination and a dp using biomancy this leads us to a decent conclusion on powers. I do hope they can't take telepathy though, cause invicibiilty would be ridiculous....Just sayin.

Biomancy on a unit of Horrors would be hilarious thanks to the brotherhood rule too. Imagine an entire unit of T3+d3 with prescience and warp speed or endurance

**matphat**

Surprised we haven't heard anything about Fiends yet.

**Slaanesh-Devotee**

Lesser Daemons used to have group mastery levels in 2nd Ed, so I'm thrillied to see a return to that, even if it is only for the Horrors.

I for one love the idea of random charts and powers galore for my daemons, that sort of potential is part of why I've always loved my Chaos army! A sop to those who prefer more plannable armies in the form of 'swap your roll for option 0' seems perfectly good to me.

While I was not impressed by the models I saw, later pictures seemed better, and these rules look very interesting.

I'd be glad to have my daemons deep striking in around my CSM at the moment, though it would be nice to get some form of 'teleport guidance' from my CSM Squad Icons. Any chance of that happening do we think?

**Slayer le boucher**

monstruous cavalery...., Monstruous cavalery... Monstruous Cavalery..., still can't take my mind off of it...

AP2 Cavalery With move through cover, reroll to penetration and smash...

monstruous cavalery, i think i love those two words togheter...

or...,or maybe its there unit type in fantasy?, because there is a Monstrous Cavalery type in fantasy..., maybe they will only be Cavalery in 40k, wich still will be awesome!

**AresX8**

Monstrous Calvary and Monstrous Beasts are two unit types in Fantasy. I have a feeling Bloodcrushers will be normal Calvary in 40k.

**Lou_Cypher**

On the bright side, this means our troops can go to ground now, right? Since they're not technically fearless in a way....?

**krazykishere**

AresX8 wrote:
Monstrous Calvary and Monstrous Beasts are two unit types in Fantasy. I have a feeling Bloodcrushers will be normal Calvary in 40k.

They could make them Calvary with smash rules and move through cover or they could do the maulerfiend jig and lake them monstrous creatures that move 12" and ignore cover even when charging.

**undertow**

krazykishere wrote:
AresX8 wrote:
Monstrous Calvary and Monstrous Beasts are two unit types in Fantasy. I have a feeling Bloodcrushers will be normal Calvary in 40k.

They could make them Calvary with smash rules and move through cover or they could do the maulerfiend jig and lake them monstrous creatures that move 12" and ignore cover even when charging.

Either would be an upgrade to what they are now. As of the current codex, they're just too slow IMO. I've had numerous games where the fast elements of my army just leave the crushers behind. In 5th Ed it wasn't so bad when my MCs could only move 12" per turn. I could keep everything in Fateweavers bubble. Now the FMCs are fast, and the crushers can't keep up.

**Slayer le boucher**

Alson they where EW, so they din't really need to arrive fast, because they could take all kind of punishment( excepte poisoned weapons like DE armies..., damn i hated those...)

**buddha**

AresX8 wrote:
Monstrous Calvary and Monstrous Beasts are two unit types in Fantasy. I have a feeling Bloodcrushers will be normal Calvary in 40k.

In the comments on Faeit the author says he meant the greater demons were beasts in terms of their performance, not their profiles. They are still monstrous creatures.

**AresX8**

buddha wrote:
AresX8 wrote:
Monstrous Calvary and Monstrous Beasts are two unit types in Fantasy. I have a feeling Bloodcrushers will be normal Calvary in 40k.

In the comments on Faeit the author says he meant the greater demons were beasts in terms of their performance, not their profiles. They are still monstrous creatures.

That's not the reason for my statement, this is:

natfka on his blog wrote:Blood crushers are now monstrous beasts and have rage. (They are really expensive)

Monstrous Beasts don't exist in 40k. Only in Fantasy. However, the fact they have the Rage USR could mean that Monstrous Beast is a new unit type, but I don't think GW would do that.

**Slayer le boucher**

They did it with Jump Cavalery, with the Drones.

**Tyrs13**

For all the crying about points increase i dont think that any of this is unreasonable.

Horrors cost the same as a SM but have a 4++ reroll 1's. Something that cant be denied by 99% of the armies out there. Unlike an AP1~3 weapon.

Soul grinders are now 220 ... boo hoo. At least for your price increase your av 13 the Defiler costs almost just as much and is AV 12.

Your Demon Princes also dont cost an arm and a leg. And your named characters are still awesome.

The only things i would be concerned with is the removal of demonic assault and this Instability.

Overall you came out ahead of C:CSM.

**Matt.Kingsley**

Slayer le boucher wrote:
They did it with Jump Cavalery, with the Drones.

Jump Cavalry is not a new unit type, 6th Ed made Jump and Jet Pack prefixes, not their own defined type.

**Fayric**

Tyrs13 wrote:
For all the crying about points increase i dont think that any of this is unreasonable.

Horrors cost the same as a SM but have a 4++ reroll 1's. Something that cant be denied by 99% of the armies out there. Unlike an AP1~3 weapon.

Soul grinders are now 220 ... boo hoo. At least for your price increase your av 13 the Defiler costs almost just as much and is AV 12.

Your Demon Princes also dont cost an arm and a leg. And your named characters are still awesome.

The only things i would be concerned with is the removal of demonic assault and this Instability.

Overall you came out ahead of C:CSM.

If Horrors cost the same as a space marine, Id be very happy indeed! As the rumor has it, they are now 19p each, and the comparison PH/SM is bad either way.
Thoug quite expencive, Horrors could now have multiple uses in an army if they get access to lots of psy power.

But overall, the current rumors on basic troops fail to fix the problems they have in current dex IMO.

**nagash42**

Did everyone see the post on the skull cannon for fantasy yet? I didn't see any post on it yet.

it's a 48" str 10 flaming D6 wound cannon that can move and shoot.

T5 4 wounds 3+ armorsave and the movement looks like 7.

**Laughing Man**

Sounds like a 50 point model to me.