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could make sense given the other rumors about GW business operations. preorder sales for christmas time for DA would not take effect until the next year when the sales become available giving a strong first quarter sales, affecting stockholder confidence vs good christmas sales from DA increasing profit margins too well this year.

only question is, what about the rumor about CD being released jan/feb? I thought they had first crack since they affected both fantasy and 40k?

 Ozymandias wrote:
Didn't he just say it was march? MAKE UP YOUR MIND!

Hastings? No. Guess you think of Stickmonkey. BTW my rumour roundup has them in January since August as well.

 Kroothawk wrote:

 Ozymandias wrote:
Didn't he just say it was march? MAKE UP YOUR MIND!

Hastings? No. Guess you think of Stickmonkey. BTW my rumour roundup has them in January since August as well.

Going by context, I think he was thinking of Faeit - though nice to see your bias shining through again, Kroot.

Faeit has numerous anonymous sources, many contradicting, so it is not one "he".
Though nice to see you attacking me for no reason again.

I was really just being facetious...

I hope it's sooner rather than later, when I know a new codex is coming out,my enthusiasm for playing the current one goes out the window.

i was at my local gaming store and the store owner told me he "Knew" that dark angels will be released next month. he wouldn't tell me how he knew or found out but he was very happy and sure of himself

 MetalOxide wrote:
I hope that Mat Ward is not writing the codex... the last thing we need is more OP Loyalist Marine cheese-fest!

Ward isn't THAT bad in terms of rules, sure he does ridiculous stuff, but the armies pay for it in points generally, rather than say, giving long fangs close combat weapons, counter attack, the ability to split fire, and cheaper heavy weapons, while simultaneously making them one point cheaper per model and making their sergeant upgrade free.

Having said that of course, I'm no fan of his fluff and would hate to see "Dark" or "Lion" used as a prefix for every new piece of wargear or special rule, seriously, Blood Fists? What was he thinking...

yay, more honourable first founding chapters that will probably start hugging xenos scum.
lets see, ultramarines love tau, blood angels lov necrons, who are the DA gonna love?

 sierra 1247 wrote:
yay, more honourable first founding chapters that will probably start hugging xenos scum.
lets see, ultramarines love tau, blood angels lov necrons, who are the DA gonna love?

I think they love each other already. No love left for Xenos in that cupboard.

 sierra 1247 wrote:
yay, more honourable first founding chapters that will probably start hugging xenos scum.
lets see, ultramarines love tau, blood angels lov necrons, who are the DA gonna love?

Tyranids. After all, Dark Angels hate Abhumans almost as much as the Fallen and the Nids ate an entire Abhuman civilization.

 Platuan4th wrote:

 sierra 1247 wrote:
yay, more honourable first founding chapters that will probably start hugging xenos scum.
lets see, ultramarines love tau, blood angels lov necrons, who are the DA gonna love?

Tyranids. After all, Dark Angels hate Abhumans almost as much as the Fallen and the Nids ate an entire Abhuman civilization.

Nah, Squats make more sense as the DA BFF as they could be the ones keeping DA in all that old tech like Jetbikes. Then again, DA already have alien BFFs, the watchers.

 Drunkspleen wrote:

 MetalOxide wrote:
I hope that Mat Ward is not writing the codex... the last thing we need is more OP Loyalist Marine cheese-fest!

Ward isn't THAT bad in terms of rules, sure he does ridiculous stuff, but the armies pay for it in points generally, rather than say, giving long fangs close combat weapons, counter attack, the ability to split fire, and cheaper heavy weapons, while simultaneously making them one point cheaper per model and making their sergeant upgrade free.

Having said that of course, I'm no fan of his fluff and would hate to see "Dark" or "Lion" used as a prefix for every new piece of wargear or special rule, seriously, Blood Fists? What was he thinking...

Riiiiiiiiight... Because before hand, Long Fangs could still split fire, had 'True-Grit' and Counter-Attack, and were so stupidly over-costed they weren't ever worth taking!
And people seem to forget that those 5-6 dudes have no ablative wounds to soak-up casulties, are the ONLY heavy weapon troopers in an entire army AND that every other fething Marine can do the 'split fire' way better through Combat Squads!

So sure, SW's have a couple really solid units that when spammed ad nausium are highly obnoxious to play against, just like every other kind of boring- spam list!

However, unlike Codex: Grey Knights, SW's didn't utterly invalidate 2 entire codicies while simultaniously making a complete mockery of the game meta by forcing every other MEQ & Ork army to go from assaulty to gunline...



I really, really want to see Dark Angels get a good and flavourful codex like what CSM's now have. (ignoring the haters and whiners who still feel overly butthurt that they don't have special snowflake cult termies!)

I really don't want to see the poor DA's turned into just the next flavour of the month bandwagon army that all the ultra competitive players and TFG's gravitate towards in order to simply win games.

 temprus wrote:

 Platuan4th wrote:

 sierra 1247 wrote:
yay, more honourable first founding chapters that will probably start hugging xenos scum.
lets see, ultramarines love tau, blood angels lov necrons, who are the DA gonna love?

Tyranids. After all, Dark Angels hate Abhumans almost as much as the Fallen and the Nids ate an entire Abhuman civilization.

Nah, Squats make more sense as the DA BFF as they could be the ones keeping DA in all that old tech like Jetbikes. Then again, DA already have alien BFFs, the watchers.

Squats aren't aliens, they're Abhumans. Unless they rape the fluff, DA refuse to fight alongside Abhumans.

However, unlike Codex: Grey Knights, SW's didn't utterly invalidate 2 entire codicies while simultaniously making a complete mockery of the game meta by forcing every other MEQ & Ork army to go from assaulty to gunline...

Oh Hey DE, who forced the meta to get rid of high T MC's because they can easily wound down with basic weaponry.

Watching MC's die to splinter pistols is terrible.

 Platuan4th wrote:
Squats aren't aliens, they're Abhumans. Unless they rape the fluff, DA refuse to fight alongside Abhumans.

What's this "unless" nonsense. You can already have armies that see Harlequins and Slaaneshi Daemons fighting side by side, so what's the big deal with DA/Abhumans?

Experiment 626 wrote:



Riiiiiiiiight... Because before hand, Long Fangs could still split fire, had 'True-Grit' and Counter-Attack, and were so stupidly over-costed they weren't ever worth taking!
And people seem to forget that those 5-6 dudes have no ablative wounds to soak-up casulties, are the ONLY heavy weapon troopers in an entire army AND that every other fething Marine can do the 'split fire' way better through Combat Squads!

So sure, SW's have a couple really solid units that when spammed ad nausium are highly obnoxious to play against, just like every other kind of boring- spam list!

However, unlike Codex: Grey Knights, SW's didn't utterly invalidate 2 entire codicies while simultaniously making a complete mockery of the game meta by forcing every other MEQ & Ork army to go from assaulty to gunline...



I really, really want to see Dark Angels get a good and flavourful codex like what CSM's now have. (ignoring the haters and whiners who still feel overly butthurt that they don't have special snowflake cult termies!)

I really don't want to see the poor DA's turned into just the next flavour of the month bandwagon army that all the ultra competitive players and TFG's gravitate towards in order to simply win games.

Forgive me for being audacious, but what exactly did grey knights invalidate? Besides taking a very specific army list and set up that left a lot of easily exploitable openings for other armies, grey knights didn't utterly shut down Daemons. Daemons( i presume that this is an army which you were referring to) weren't even played largely at all in the large tournaments, which consisted mostly of Blood Angels, Space Wolves, Imperial Guard and Dark Eldar. And in a casual format anyone pulling that specific trick is probably not someone you want to play with.
I also don't see how other competitive armies were "invalidated" by ANY of the recent Codex creep offenders. No doubt they have a significant edge in terms of efficiency, but just because my X unit is 1 point less than your X unit, that doesn't mean i just shouldn't take any X at all.
I get that its stressful to have to sit and watch and wait for your army book to get its spot on stage. I play Bretonnians in Warhammer fantasy. My main opponents are High Elves, Skaven, Tomb Kings and Lizardmen, all of which are bad match ups for me. But don't let that foster undeserved hatred for innocent books. Many people thought that Grey Knights were OP in 5th. Turns out they were just designed for a different rules set. Necrons, who were a very balanced army, are now top-tier in multiple categories.
Overall, 6th edition has brought in a multitude of new rules changes and tweaks to smooth balance over. Whether it was intentional or not is a different matter. But overall, the playing field has leveled a lot.

Back in August(?) Hastings said CSM, WOC, DA and CD/DOC by February. We seem to be on course so far. Since DA would seem to be the larger release in terms of models and kits, January just seems to fit. It's GW's "spend your Xmas money" slot, and putting some SM in that slot has to make the bean counters happy.

It'd be a first (I think?) to have back-to-back codex releases. Perhaps it'll be Daemon preorders in late February. But then GW might see Daemons as technically occupying a WFB slot. And if they're as backed up with stuff as they proclaim to be, they gotta pick up the pace a little at some point, right?

Neronoxx wrote:

Forgive me for being audacious, but what exactly did grey knights invalidate? Besides taking a very specific army list and set up that left a lot of easily exploitable openings for other armies, grey knights didn't utterly shut down Daemons. Daemons( i presume that this is an army which you were referring to) weren't even played largely at all in the large tournaments, which consisted mostly of Blood Angels, Space Wolves, Imperial Guard and Dark Eldar. And in a casual format anyone pulling that specific trick is probably not someone you want to play with.
I also don't see how other competitive armies were "invalidated" by ANY of the recent Codex creep offenders. No doubt they have a significant edge in terms of efficiency, but just because my X unit is 1 point less than your X unit, that doesn't mean i just shouldn't take any X at all.
I get that its stressful to have to sit and watch and wait for your army book to get its spot on stage. I play Bretonnians in Warhammer fantasy. My main opponents are High Elves, Skaven, Tomb Kings and Lizardmen, all of which are bad match ups for me. But don't let that foster undeserved hatred for innocent books. Many people thought that Grey Knights were OP in 5th. Turns out they were just designed for a different rules set. Necrons, who were a very balanced army, are now top-tier in multiple categories.
Overall, 6th edition has brought in a multitude of new rules changes and tweaks to smooth balance over. Whether it was intentional or not is a different matter. But overall, the playing field has leveled a lot.

*sigh* Why do people seem to think that you need an entire army of Warp Quake models to screw over the likes of Daemons, Drop Pod armies, DoA, etc...?
1 single 10-man squad. That's it. Play a castle deployment, slap your WQ unit out front, spread 'em out the full 2" coherency and boom! There's a reletively massive 20"x30" or so bubble of instant mishap. Now factor in that the player deep striking will have to aim just over 7" back from that area in order to likely avoid potentially scattering into it, and you've effectively pushed back your enemy by anywhere from about 21" to 28" or more depending on scatter rolls.
Because that's a really fun game, being forced to run your entire army into the teeth of a GK gunline...

In 5th, GK's also;
- Purifyer spam broken every single horde army. Green Tide Orks, Power Blob IG & Tyranids all got roflstomped by what was deemed 'winning flame'. It also really hurt Wych Cults too.
Before combat beings and auto-hitting every single enemy model is just dumb. Added on top of guys who get more attacks and get super cheap Halberds for I6 which no MEQ unit should EVER have! (not even Slaaneshii CSM's outside of HQ should have I6 - it's just too much on top of MEQ stats)

- Draigowing pretty much auto-won any Kill Points mission due to wound allocation BS.

- An entire army of Force Weapons also shifted every single MEQ army from assault capable, (SW's & BA's), into a more 'shooting only' type of army.

- Henchmen spam played the IG's mech game way better than the IG could.

And I wouldn't say the GK's were "obviously designed with 6th in mind", rather they were clearly intended to be a 5th edition army that started to look ahead to 6th edition, just like how Skaven were/are in Fantasy.

Experiment 626 wrote:

Neronoxx wrote:

Forgive me for being audacious, but what exactly did grey knights invalidate? Besides taking a very specific army list and set up that left a lot of easily exploitable openings for other armies, grey knights didn't utterly shut down Daemons. Daemons( i presume that this is an army which you were referring to) weren't even played largely at all in the large tournaments, which consisted mostly of Blood Angels, Space Wolves, Imperial Guard and Dark Eldar. And in a casual format anyone pulling that specific trick is probably not someone you want to play with.
I also don't see how other competitive armies were "invalidated" by ANY of the recent Codex creep offenders. No doubt they have a significant edge in terms of efficiency, but just because my X unit is 1 point less than your X unit, that doesn't mean i just shouldn't take any X at all.
I get that its stressful to have to sit and watch and wait for your army book to get its spot on stage. I play Bretonnians in Warhammer fantasy. My main opponents are High Elves, Skaven, Tomb Kings and Lizardmen, all of which are bad match ups for me. But don't let that foster undeserved hatred for innocent books. Many people thought that Grey Knights were OP in 5th. Turns out they were just designed for a different rules set. Necrons, who were a very balanced army, are now top-tier in multiple categories.
Overall, 6th edition has brought in a multitude of new rules changes and tweaks to smooth balance over. Whether it was intentional or not is a different matter. But overall, the playing field has leveled a lot.

*sigh* Why do people seem to think that you need an entire army of Warp Quake models to screw over the likes of Daemons, Drop Pod armies, DoA, etc...?
1 single 10-man squad. That's it. Play a castle deployment, slap your WQ unit out front, spread 'em out the full 2" coherency and boom! There's a reletively massive 20"x30" or so bubble of instant mishap. Now factor in that the player deep striking will have to aim just over 7" back from that area in order to likely avoid potentially scattering into it, and you've effectively pushed back your enemy by anywhere from about 21" to 28" or more depending on scatter rolls.
Because that's a really fun game, being forced to run your entire army into the teeth of a GK gunline...

In 5th, GK's also;
- Purifyer spam broken every single horde army. Green Tide Orks, Power Blob IG & Tyranids all got roflstomped by what was deemed 'winning flame'. It also really hurt Wych Cults too.
Before combat beings and auto-hitting every single enemy model is just dumb. Added on top of guys who get more attacks and get super cheap Halberds for I6 which no MEQ unit should EVER have! (not even Slaaneshii CSM's outside of HQ should have I6 - it's just too much on top of MEQ stats)

- Draigowing pretty much auto-won any Kill Points mission due to wound allocation BS.

- An entire army of Force Weapons also shifted every single MEQ army from assault capable, (SW's & BA's), into a more 'shooting only' type of army.

- Henchmen spam played the IG's mech game way better than the IG could.

And I wouldn't say the GK's were "obviously designed with 6th in mind", rather they were clearly intended to be a 5th edition army that started to look ahead to 6th edition, just like how Skaven were/are in Fantasy.

Gks are definatly designed to be 6th ed in mind, The whole reason they has over powered forceweapons is because now they are all Ap3 which means they can't kill terminators and would die horiabblily against them. There amazing tanks which everyone thought was OP now is useless.

GK is still good because they are a new release, Now if you talk about necrons, every necron list can probably beat a GK list, thats how over powered the necrons are, so stop complaning about the GKs and complain about necrons, Atleast you can deal with GKs with range, how do you deal with never dying necrons and flyers..... ? You can't you just hope you have enough troops to out last their shooting which is just stupid.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
More Dark angel releated, I wish the plasma predators are true because then maybe I don't have to choose speeders for every DA list because currently the predators are over price and we have hardly any AP2 stuff unless you take deathwing, even that we have no ranged ap2 on any good troops or tanks.

via Faeit 212 and Stickmonkey

A bit of tidying up and omnibus Dark Angels stuff today boys and gals.

First up Dark Angels Scheduling:

- Dark Angels devoted White Dwarf for January
- Miniatures go up for pre-order end of December and are available very early January. ~So save up some of your holiday money!

Rules-wise we hear the following:

-Sammael still rides the Imperium's only functioning jetbike.
-Larger sized Tactical Squads have been reported ~perhaps the 1st Chapter is still holding onto some of the "old Legion ways"???
-Standard "Green Dark Angels" are well represented with 8 unit choices across the codex. It won't be all Deathwing and Ravenwing.

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2012/11/40k-rumors-dark-angels-for-new-year.html

They don't say which one was which... That's annoying. I imagine the rules part was Stick.

So next year it is.. or better only a few weeks away.

Bigger Tactical units don't seem useful, anyone seen these enlarged CSM squads they could have?

Green Marines. 8 choices ?
- Tacs, Scouts, Devs, Asm, command?, comp. vets? , maybe the Techmarine too?
- would vehicles count as "green" too?

I dunno, if they keep combat squads big squads could be pretty amusing. Even if they don't 20 marines is hard to shift.

Experiment 626 wrote:

In 5th, GK's also;
- Purifyer spam broken every single horde army. Green Tide Orks, Power Blob IG & Tyranids all got roflstomped by what was deemed 'winning flame'. It also really hurt Wych Cults too.
Before combat beings and auto-hitting every single enemy model is just dumb. Added on top of guys who get more attacks and get super cheap Halberds for I6 which no MEQ unit should EVER have! (not even Slaaneshii CSM's outside of HQ should have I6 - it's just too much on top of MEQ stats)

Purifier spam had a ridiculously low body count that was easily abuse-able by a majority of those horde.It also required you to take a 150 hq that almost never contributed to a game, and the whole army gave up killpoints rather easily. With 6th, those weaknesses have only been exacerbated. And wyches did just fine against purifiers, as long as the DE player thought about their charges. And what is wrong with an MEQ unit having I6? go ahead an give a 10 man unit halberds. That unit now costs 260 points. will it wreck your assualt guys? Yeah, thats why their taken! so instead of charging the 10 man halbifiers unit, try shooting them with a plasma gun or 2. See if the halberds make a difference.

Experiment 626 wrote:

- Draigowing pretty much auto-won any Kill Points mission due to wound allocation BS.

This was due to a rules abuse that was obscure at best and only used by certain players. I unfortunately do not believe that the writers of the rules play competitively, and so they have no idea that certain loopholes exist. Nob bikers were doing this before Paladins, and while Paladins did do it better, they hardly "auto-won" games. Did they have an advantage? Yes, but a vindicator or anything of the like helped your problems immensely.

Experiment 626 wrote:

- An entire army of Force Weapons also shifted every single MEQ army from assault capable, (SW's & BA's), into a more 'shooting only' type of army.

That's called adapting to your meta. Guess what? It's not new. And if a player brought a Take All Comers list, he often could deal with "An entire army of force weapons" just fine.

Experiment 626 wrote:

- Henchmen spam played the IG's mech game way better than the IG could.

I'm sorry but how? by spamming psybolted assualt cannons? on Razorbacks? I do believe that the majority of IG tanks out-range and outclass razorbacks. Fortitude was an extreme boon in a GK mech spam list, i'll give you that but that doesnt turn a razorback into a leman russ.

Experiment 626 wrote:

And I wouldn't say the GK's were "obviously designed with 6th in mind", rather they were clearly intended to be a 5th edition army that started to look ahead to 6th edition, just like how Skaven were/are in Fantasy.

Mastery Levels, their force weapons, warp quake, brain mines, psycannons and a few others now, after looking back, have very obvious 6th edition applications or uses that its hard to believe Ward didn't know what was coming. They were clearly and literally, "designed with 6th edition in mind." They were made to be effective in 5th edition while still being affected by the changes wrought by 6th.

But i won't comment on this anymore, as this is a Dark Angel thread. Honestly what i want out of the Dark Angels book is a mid-tier/competitive book with good internal/external pricing. If ward is writing it, the book could go either way. Good rules, but bad pricing or bad rules, good pricing, etc. I just hope that there are builds beyond deathwing and ravenwing.
Just saw Cyrax's post. Yay

Best if we take the GK discussion to the 40k general board chaps. Thanks

 pretre wrote:
They don't say which one was which... That's annoying. I imagine the rules part was Stick.

You are correct

11-17-12: Faeit 212

naftka wrote:via the Faeit 212 inbox (anonmyous as I have no permission to use the sources name)
the next WD is hobbit releases and the WD after will feature Dark Angels.
DA codex will be after Christmas though.

 sierra 1247 wrote:
yay, more honourable first founding chapters that will probably start hugging xenos scum.
lets see, ultramarines love tau, blood angels lov necrons, who are the DA gonna love?

I see someone doesn't know who the Watches In The Dark are.

We don't actually know what the Watchers in the Dark are.

They could be aliens, they could be abhumans, they could be manifestations of a Warp entity.

 Kanluwen wrote:
We don't actually know what the Watchers in the Dark are.

They could be aliens, they could be abhumans, they could be manifestations of a Warp entity.

so my guess is that they'll end up being warp manifestations of the guilt hanging over the Dark Angels.