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Humans seem to be the "good" guys in every game. Would be nice to see non human teams being "good" and humans being exploited

humans are a grey area, if not the bad guys, in warpath. east india trading company I think Alessio said. Rock up, try and do a deal, and if they don't take it, annilihate the crap out of them.

For dreadball as a corporation sponsored event though, it makes sense they're highlighted as the being the good guys. propaganda and all that.

 scarletsquig wrote:
I really like the design/ artwork of the board as it is, grey steel effect would have been boring... glowing TRON hexes are much more sci-fi.

Plus, there's all kinds of cool ideas people now have for making custom under-lit boards to match the style of the board art with LEDs and all sorts.

Someone posted in the KS comments about doing a clear layer of plastic and then gluing opaque hexes on top, with a lightbox underneath to create an illuminated board.

I personally find the plain blue-black board to be boring. I also don't intend to spend money, time or effort buying acrylic sheet or the expensive acrylic board and trying to light it up. Thanks for being the arbiter of what is "more sci-fi" though.


Sadly, Mantic are still playing pantomime with their backer emails. "Oh my! Look at this random concept picture we only got just now! What could we do with it?" When people have been talking about the female team from day1

We’ve been playing around with what the next stretch goal could be and when we got this concept from Roberto Cirillo earlier today, we thought what the heck – could it be a female Corporation team?
(picture posted above)
What do you think - should we post these gals up next?

As you can see from the alternate helmets and shoulder pads, this is still an early concept and we’re open to ideas on how to improve the design. We want to incorporate the suit from Wildcard in some way, probably taking off some of the armour. We're also really liking Helmet C.

Please drop us your comments below and let us know what you think!

Why does that piss me off? Because it's an insult to our intelligence.

Or it was a joke that you're misinterpreting as an insult to your intelligence.

The female team look very nice, personaly I'd prefer them without helmets and short hair but that wouldn't be very practical from a gaming standpoint. Per chance is the guy who designed these the same guy that designed the female troops for sedition wars?, theres a lot subtle similarities between the two (most notably the hip/thigh area).

@scipio: Or maybe they actually did just get that concept in this morning, and while they had the idea to do a female team, they didn't pay the artist to concept it until it was clear that the KS would reach that point, an approach which also allows public feedback on the design/sculpting of the models?

Similar to how Mantic has been posting concepts, previews and greens and asking for public feedback on their blog constantly over the course of the last 1-2 years?

Also, about the design of the board, was just expressing an opinion.

I'm definitely going to want to get hold of a female team, it's a team I could really get behind, the concept needs some work but I'm sure they can pull it off.

I quite like helmet C, all the male players have helmets, so I don't see any reason for the females to be any different. Like the idea of less armour, and prefer the non-high-heeled shoes.The curved shoulder pads work best.

And yeah, this is the same guy that did the Sedition Wars concepts, he does pretty much 100% of all the Warpath concepts as well, and has done from the start.

Then Remy takes the concepts and sculpts a 100% carbon copy of them in 3d form.

 scarletsquig wrote:
@scipio: Or maybe they actually did just get that concept in this morning, and while they had the idea to do a female team, they didn't pay the artist to concept it until it was clear that the KS would reach that point, an approach which also allows public feedback on the design/sculpting of the models?

Similar to how Mantic has been posting concepts, previews and greens and asking for public feedback on their blog constantly over the course of the last 1-2 years?

I'm definitely going to want to get hold of a female team, it's a team I could really get behind, the concept needs some work but I'm sure they can pull it off.

I quite like helmet C, all the male players have helmets, so I don't see any reason for the females to be any different. Like the idea of less armour, and prefer the non-high-heeled shoes.The curved shoulder pads work best.

And yeah, this is the same guy that did the Sedition Wars concepts, he does pretty much 100% of all the Warpath concepts as well, and has done from the start.

Then Remy takes the concepts and sculpts a 100% carbon copy of them in 3d form.

You want to get behind a female team? Me too.
Oh, wait. You want to support them...

I like the non-alternate head the best.

Alternate concept C would be hard to paint well. It looks to me like it should either be like black tinted glass, or a clear visor. Both of which would be a nightmare to do well.

Me likey that female concept sketch, me likey a lot. Dangit... I aas hoping to give my wallet a bit of a rest...

Damn you kickstarter!

 AlexHolker wrote:
TLDR: if you're going to use megacorps as the shaping influence of your setting, at least give them credit for knowing how propaganda advertising works.

Personally I would give a megacorp more credit if they knew the advertising benefit of not having their star players hit in the unarmoured face with a high velocity titanium ball.

Well except that Logan guy, but I hear he is very lucky...

 Rolt wrote:
The female team look very nice, personaly I'd prefer them without helmets and short hair but that wouldn't be very practical from a gaming standpoint.

That would also be my preference, but with luck, they'll at least do that for the Strikers. The Marauders do a good job of making the classes instantly recognisable, giving the female Corp Guards, Jacks and Strikers enclosed, open-faced and no helmets respectively would do the same here.

I like the idea and look of the female team. But I'd like to see a super-up-armored bruiser type that is bigger than the male team, closer to on par with the orx. I also like head B, with the wonder woman type helmet guard framing the face. However, come on, tooling an entirely new sprue, give us unhelmeted heads as an option on the sprue, seriously. I understand that they really wouldn't play that way, but a lot of things aren't modeled, so helmets aren't needed as the models won't really be playing the game. Give us some rollerderby hair-do's. Pig tails, top knots, etc. Hell, even put those sticking out of the helmets, and some helmets with mohawks! And their MVP should be a Diva.

Oh, I also think some optional pieces to model "chainmail" skirts would give them that rollerderby feel. Plus, to make them play differently, you could have their special things be combo moves. So instead of that character continuing to move, another player makes that move. Just a thought to make them different.

there isn't a sprue. when the drawing says alternate head or alternate shoulder pad, they're talking about a different design, not a different component. all of the models are single piece because it's a board game and they're really nice board game pieces that people may well try and convert into wargame miniatures. the last thing they want to do is confuse that with alternate pieces IMO.

Sadly, Mantic are still playing pantomime with their backer emails. "Oh my! Look at this random concept picture we only got just now! What could we do with it?" When people have been talking about the female team from day1

aren't they showing off a drawing of the female team that people want. Isn't that like, a good thing?

I mean, I think this is a change in the plan because otherwise it'd be on the diagram for striker like the locked mvps. and you have to realise that they are talking to several different audienes, a couple of which are new to mantic and are not used to their style of showing stuff off and asking for opinion.

how it's insulting to your intelligence is beyond me, sounds like an over-reaction.

Its gotten ridiculous when people are actively trying to find ways to be insulted by mantic.

 Black Nexus wrote:
aren't they showing off a drawing of the female team that people want. Isn't that like, a good thing?

STUFF

how it's insulting to your intelligence is beyond me, sounds like an over-reaction.

Gotta agree with you there. Rather than an insult to my obviously massive intelligence (I am a gamer after all) I am seeing it more as a "Hey, we got some concept art handed in, let's post it up and see what people feel about it. If they go wild we know we are onto a winner and should put up a new team, if they don't like it we can see what we can do to change it."

/shrug

Games Workshop is regularly getting A LOT of flack for trying to manipulate and control the flow of "rumours", "news" and "reveals". If it is legitimate to criticize GW for their information and reveal policy, it would also legitimate to criticize Mantic (or anyone else) for theirs.

If we are to adopt a universal policy of "always assume the most benign interpretation possible", we should adopt it equally for all companies being discussed on these discussion forums across the board

Oh come on Zweischneid, they aren't even comparable in that sense.

At present Mantic is having (trying) to be more open - it's a general thing for companies trying to muscle in on a market that they have to give more than their competitors, and it's an area GW has taken some big flak for so it makes sense from their own marketing perspectives. They give green previews, concept art, pre-release hints, even beta-playtesting and 'name a unit' kind of stuff. Although to be fair this is common to pretty much every other games company out there in terms of providing some information and building a sense of anticipation about new releases.

Completely in contrast to GW, where the only pics we had of Dark Vengence and the like was some brave Pole at the printers risking life and limb to take a sneaky couple of shots on his camera phone a few days before release (probably )

Sure they are comparable.

GW is trying to have the news "break" on the White Dwarf or their own website that there is such a thing as a Dark Vengeance Starter Box, say.

Mantic is trying to have the news "break" on Kickstarter currently that there is such a thing as as an all-female DreadBall team, say.


For both, rumours have been around before the "official" reveal. GW simply ignores the earlier leaks. Mantic, however, specifically said they "just got those sketches". That is a fairly implausible story, not impossible, but implausible.

The point I was making however, was less about Mantic or GW, but about the comments made here.

If you are willing to just assume the best, and that Mantic truly just found those sketches in their inbox and haven't really planned their Kickstarter beyond this point (despite another month or so to go),you should also give GW the benefit of the doubt in all their reveals and releases.

It's a double-standard in the users of this forum IMO, who are always willing to tear into GW like they are out to offend them personally, but will viciously mock, scorn and ridicule even the slightest criticism of Mantic as if they couldn't possibly do wrong or were utterly incapable of manipulating their fans a little bit.

"Mantic wants to make a female team" (their stated position at the start of the KS) != "Mantic already has a fully completed set of concept art made" (their stated position currently)

Can we not dredge this thread back into "speculation about Mantic's evil marketing conspiracy supported by zero evidence" again? We've already had 8 pages of that, we don't need 8 more.

There is no secret moonbase, Ronnie does not own a white cat, or an indoor pool full of sharks, or the Federal Reserve of the United States of America.

It's a double-standard in the users of this forum IMO, who are always willing to tear into GW like they are out to offend them personally, but will viciously mock, scorn and ridicule even the slightest criticism of Mantic as if they couldn't possibly do wrong or were utterly incapable of manipulating their fans a little bit.

Seriously?

It's entirely possible that they just got the sketches. They may have moved them up in the queue, or maybe the concept artist was just now able to fit them into his schedule.

I don't know. And neither do any of you. I don't think that they were suggesting they were taken by surprise by them though.

GW has more than earned the bile that they get. Mantic are certainly able to manipulate, and may be willing. But it's not been shown repeatedly like it has with GW.

Just my thoughts.

~Eric

Let's not forget that Mantic consists of Ex-GW-staff, so similarities in behavior are to be expected.

Yeah, personally it's all a bit too opaque for me... not wanting to be a "hater", but it just drains the enthusiasm I would have for the Kickstarter otherwise.

It's great to have a plan. But if you already have a plan and are kind of cagey about it, it takes away from the Kickstarter experience imo.

All the ones I have backed (Dreamforge, Modest Magic, Brushfire) have been really open and taken customer feedback into serious account in making major alterations to the Kickstarter. Again, they don't have to do that, but at the minimum if they had already set their plan in place, I wouldn't want them to pretend otherwise.

(Disclaimer: Not saying they are. Just saying the general impression I get is not totally positive with how they are dealing with their backers, which I think is legitimate to say since it's, well, my own impression and maybe they should adjust their strategy if they're giving off that feeling to people like myself)

^ How is this any different to the dreamforge kickstarter?

Here's a list of what has happened so far:

- Mantic hints at female team as being one of the ideas they want to do.
- Kickstarter backers say "great idea, we want this!"
- Mantic sees this and considers moving the female team stretch further ahead in the queue. Mantic gets basic concept art made to prepare, and posts it online for backer feedback, so that the models can match what people want.
- Kickstarter backers are happy.

What part of that process is everyone having such a big problem with? I absolutely do not have any clue as to what the "legitimate" complaint might be here.

Are you annoyed that they are asking for feedback, when they should have "the right ideas" already?

Are you convinced that the concept art for the female team was already made 2 weeks ago, and that Mantic deliberately and maliciously lied when they say that it just arrived in their inbox? Why do you think this?

I'm not necessarily trying to compare the two- I just said this was turning me off. But since you asked, most of the stretch goals leading up to 100K were unplanned- people were clamoring for the weapon options to be offered as stand-alone purchases, something he had never planned to do, and he talked to the manufacturer and made it work.

Again, not trying to hate, just trying to give constructive criticism. It would bother me if a Kickstarter I was supporting made it look like they were taking customer feedback, when they actually weren't. I get a bit of that impression here, whether or not it's actually the case, so imo their presentation should change a bit if they want to Not give that impression.

It's a valid impression, as it's my own after all . Doesn't mean it's fact, and I never said it was. Just that saying they're Not giving that impression is clearly not correct, as a number of people have felt the same way.

This is not to say that Mark/Dreamforge/small kickstarters can do no wrong. People get upset when things change, even after taking feedback, too. But I'd rather feel like I was more part of the process, rather than being led along (again: Feeling, not necessarily that this is what's happening, but it's the impression being given to some, myself included).

I mean this as constructive criticism, and honestly don't think it's anything to bristle over! They clearly could tweak their PR approach a bit soas not to turn off a certain subset of folks, and I was trying to articulate that. Won't derail the thread any further by repeating it, just giving some feedback

It is not even about having a plan. Sure, Reaper Bones had a plan. Everyone knew they had some big stuff reserved for the endgame. Everyone was excited to see what it would be. When they put out their final stretch-goals (as concept art) for the undead Dragon, Cthulhu, etc.. everyone was ecstatic, as many people would have been by a Mantic "reveal" of a female team.

But Reaper did not go off and say... look, we just found this sketch of Cthulhu in our drawer. What a coincidence!

Simply having (A) a plan and revealing it as the Kickstarter moves along and (B) doing... what has rightly or wrongly been described above as "insulting the intelligence" of the audience... are rather two different things.


Even if Mantic is guiltless in this, after and precisely because they took similar criticism for the "clumsy" wording of their Forge Father MVP stretch-goal, I would have hoped they would try to shoot for a less patronizing tone, even if its just to be on the safe side.

Yes, it's just the impression they're giving, that's what I was trying to articulate.

It's totally fine for them to have a female team planned, etc etc etc. But their presentation could improve a bit, imo, and I'd like to think that as an interested observer I have the right to say so

Well, they were really good at taking feedback into account on the KoW Kickstarter, the Ogre concept art has changed significantly, taking into account a lot of public feedback.

Mantic has a 3-year track record of being extremely good at this sort of thing, I don't understand why anyone would automatically assume the worst.

@Zwei: You're mis-quoting Mantic when you state that they just "found the artwork in a drawer".. the actual statement is that the concept artwork they commissioned for the female team arrived in the inbox of the person manging the kickstarter.

Mantic hires freelancers, its main sculptor lives in France, and its main artist lives in the Netherlands. They don't have a staff artist, they freelance out everything, so yes the "just got this in the mail" comment is accurate.

I'm not assuming the worst, just saying the impression I'm being given!

The concept art on the KoW Kickstarter was handled well and I was impressed by that. Almost sprung for those ogres and trolls.

What I'm saying it I'm getting a different impression here, and I'm not the only one to have said so, so maybe that's some feedback they should take into the account? Customer's always right and all that

Okay, point's been made, I won't reply further...

It is.

I LOVE the fact that they want feedback for the team designs.

I LOVE the fact that they seemingly listened to the audience with the Hex-bases.


Mantic is doing many things right. But they are not doing EVERYTHING right and it is usually in discussion forums like this one where these things are discussed.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 scarletsquig wrote:


@Zwei: You're mis-quoting Mantic when you state that they just "found the artwork in a drawer".. the actual statement is that the concept artwork they commissioned for the female team arrived in the inbox of the person manging the kickstarter.

I was not quoting. I was trying to come up with a Reaper analogy for Reaper, not Mantic.

And I already lost one bet by presuming things were worse than they were.

Once again, if Mantic are blameless in this, than it is even more sad that the general vibe some people get from them is that they are seemingly being taken for fools. It could be easily avoided.