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He first asked for money in advance, people got nothing for more than half a year or a year. All well documented on Dakka.
He asked again for money in advance while people were still waiting and everyone warned about long delays. So if you ignored the warnings, it was at your own risk. It's like making a Maelstrom order a week before collapse, hoping for a fine profit and then complaining about money lost. That said, I still think that Felix will deliver in the next four years or so.

Well, I didn't ignore the warnings but it doesn't make the fact that he took money and isn't delivering for those who did pay him OK!

 Kroothawk wrote:
To be fair, the kickstarter started after the Chaos Warrior sales desaster. So everyone on Dakka was aware that:
1.) AoW doesn't communicate
2.) AoW doesn't deliver in time.
3.) AoW likes to start new projects before older ones are accomplished.
So even if they made a Dark Elf army, I wouldn't have pledged. AFAIK, there were explicit warnings in the kickstarter thread. Not that I defend AoW's behavior, but it is something I was expecting.

Absolutely correct on every count - and exactly why I only went in for two of the standard bearer (IGG exclusive, $15 inc int'l shipping.)

Yep, I figured $15 was worth the risk. Just seems like that $15 is going to be tied up for all eternity

Im mildly okay with the delay, its become a running theme amongst KS campaigns that they're almost always late. But like others have said the complete lack of information/communication from Avatar of War has really soured my opinion of them.

I will say that i appreciate that AoW are actually putting effort into producing each of these Dwarf boxsets, They could have easily been cheap like Mantic were with the KoW Kickstarter and produced only 2 torsos/bodies per box along with the bare minimum amount of other components so they can save some money and rush the kits into production.

Personally i'd rather support a KS campaign that's a year behind schedule but is slowly producing some amazing models, than one run by a company that releases half assed sculpts simply so they can meet their KS deadline.

Yes, it's true that the models are very diverse... but would we even notice if, for example, instead of 7 different torsoes in a box of 21, they'd only include 5?

It'd all help speeding up the process of releasing additonal units.

3 boxes of 5 instead of 7 toroes = time for another one.

I'm glad I only did $15 for the BSB. Feel bad for people that did a lot more.

I think this comment from AoW posted a few days ago on Indiegogo is telling:

It will still take a while for the Batlle St. Bearer, as I’d like to get first done more regiments before moving to the heroes.

I.E. it'll be done when it's done. At this rate 1-2 years, probably after a good chunk of the Dwarf regiments are done...

Which is just foolish, as all those people who dipped their toes in with the standard bearer may have bought regiments afterwards. You can bet that almost none of them will be after waiting so long for a single model...

 zedmeister wrote:
I think this comment from AoW posted a few days ago on Indiegogo is telling:

It will still take a while for the Batlle St. Bearer, as I’d like to get first done more regiments before moving to the heroes.

Wow - from that statement, I'm guessing the wait is going to be long indeed...

 RiTides wrote:
Which is just foolish, as all those people who dipped their toes in with the standard bearer may have bought regiments afterwards. You can bet that almost none of them will be after waiting so long for a single model...

Foolish but a fair warning
But it seems that for the next few years, he can't handle more demand anyways.

The reason I'm so relaxed about this one compared to how bent out of shape I get about other Kickstarters is because this is literally just the kind of attitude and wait I expected from Felix. (Also why I wasn't willing to go in for a larger amount).

Even so, I wouldn't be entirely surprised if he decides to renege on it in some way, considering the $15 for the BSB includes international shipping. I - quite literally - considered backing for this one figure to be a gamble. And still do, really.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
(how's that for low expectations?)

Yeah, I spend more on lotto tickets when it gets high enough. I'm relatively confident that the chance of getting my models is higher than me winning the lotto...relatively....

After I've got my pledge from the IGG campaign delievered I will do just as a lot of other people here on Dakka, which is not to buy directly from AoW again but go through other retailers.

New update and 2 new models are posted. So, it's not that they're not sculpting characters yet... it's just that they're not sculpting the standard bearer yet...

Dwarf Master Pathfinder & Kurz’Gan, the Corrupted Scion
Two new miniatures for Dwarves and Hosts of the Apocalypse.
For Dwarves, a Master Pathfinder sculpted by Felix Paniagua. The Master Pathfinder is designed to be used as champion in a regiment of Dwarf Pathfinders. More details about this miniature here:
http://www.avatars-of-war.com/eng/web/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&prodcode=53&prodname=Dwarf+Master+Pathfinder&id=118&Itemid=114

For the Hosts of the Apocalypse arrives Kurz’Gan, the Corrupted Scion, sculpted by Sergio Lafuente. Very soon we will add the rules to use this new character in Warthrone. You can find more details about this miniature here:
http://www.avatars-of-war.com/eng/web/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&prodcode=54&prodname=Kurz%C2%B4Gan+the+Corrupted+Scion&id=118&Itemid=120

Just wanted to say that I received my AOW dwarf plastic pathfinders from the indiegogo campaign this morning, and they look amazing. Definitely the best looking dwarf miniatures that I've ever seen. I'll have to see how they go together (and will try to grab pics), but wanted to add some positive feedback.

Are they the good kind of plastic?

When do they hit retail?

Not sure exactly what type they are -- they didn't have the look and feel of resin to me, but they appear to be made along the same lines as the "Warriors of Apoc" models (from what I've seen in pictures). The torsos are connected to the feet by "pegs" which have to be removed before you can glue them together. (So if that was restic, maybe these are too?)

I have no idea when they hit retail.

Avatars of War wrote:Here comes the miniature for one of the most popular characters in Warthrone army lists. The Master Gunner …
… get passing order dice and fixing those mortars! >

http://www.avatars-of-war.com/eng/forum/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=950

Moar characters... no standard bearer...

Wants
Needs
will gets!

Lovely miniature

And yeah.. no standard bearer :(

BSB or GTFO

Oh Felix, how you make me laugh, so.

His progress with the dwarves is slow and implacable. It's very fitting.

Still - as annoying as the process is - you can't argue with results. I quite like the engineer.

Felix posted this on his forum - they are switching materials due to costs which has been causing some of the delays:


I think some explanation on the state of AoW will be good by now.

About production problems:
There are no problems at all with metal miniatures production.

We tried the WarCast process for mass producing multi-part plastic-resin regiments. Thing is we were unable to make a profit at the porduction rate we achieved (even if we achieved a very high production rate).

Deciding to stop WarCast production for regiments was not easy, we tried during months to tweak this & that, we improved, but it was never enough. At the end there was no more choice but to switch to plastic injection if we wanted to produce the quantities we need.

So we have removed the regiments from distribution and we are now retooling all regiments for plastic injection production. Tooling a single regiment takes 2-3 months, and it does not speed up that much the process tooling several boxes at one, so it will take quite a while to have all the regiments back in distribution (even more as we will give priority to the new releases over retooling regiments).

First injection plastic produced regiment (the Pathfinders) will come on July.

Future of WarCast:
WarCast is a great production method for non-distribution products. So it will just be for online only items, where the direct sell allows us to make a profit.
WarCast will allow us to produce items that would not sell enough to be tooled on plastic, or weigh toomuch to be produced in metal, ...


About future releases:
The fact that I have to resculpt most of the bits of the different regiments (to make possible plastic injection tooling) has slowed me down with new releases. I will do what I can, but I can not promise a new release regiment per month now.
There will be a monthly plastic injection regiment, but it might some months be a retooled one, like the Corrupters, and oher months a completely new regiment ... there will also be of course new metal characters every month.

First injection plastic produced regiment (the Pathfinders) will come on July.


About Indiegogo Dwarf campaign:
Of course all this affects the Dwarf campaign new releases as well, so it is possible some months there will be no new Dwarf regiment (but for sure at least a new Dwarf character). To all disappointed Indiegogo backers, I can just say that I am working very hard, I simply cant increase the release rate unless I commission some miniatures to freelancers, but I would like to do the whole Dwarf army myself.


About AoW health:
Sales of metal figures are enough for AoW to carry on, so AoW's health is good. With the imminent arrival of the plastic injection regiments the future looks really bright. All in all AoW is healthier than ever.


Thanks for reading so far!

And more:

Xander wrote:
Will you be working with Renedra again? I quite like the Dwarf Berserker kit...


Not Renedra. Sprue ABS tooling for injected plastic is too expensive for a company of our size.

We are doing tooling for PVC injected plastic. It is not so expensive (while still thousands of EUR for a mold, not in the several tens of thousands like ABS) and the quality of the injected castings is very good. A good example of PVC plastics are privateer press ones. Produced castings are not as cheap as ABS ones (which are less than 1EUR for a whole regiment) but still allow for a good profit margin.
Note that you need a good margin, because if you want a product to be widely distributed we are talking about 50% discount from retail price. This is only possible (for multi-part regiments) with injected plastic (be PVC or ABS).

_________________
Miniatures gamer, sculptor and collector

Man, so many companies getting in over their heads... I doubt the IGG campaign will even finish by the end of 2014 now.

Good to have an explanation, bad to have it so late.

Open, honest communication is all most consumers need to understand if a situation has arisen and then stop gnashing their teeth and being upset.

Rumor, agitation and panic all exist in the vacuum of silence from the manufacturer.

It constantly boggles me how many mini companies totally fail to keep their customers informed and then get antsy when customers have gathered and tried to work out why a problem is occurring, when a few minutes a day or even every few days, can alleviate this.

So, this means that those lovely Corrupters figures will eventually get released in proper plastic? I can live with that.

"Proper" plastic will be privateer press style, so I don't think the detail would be better than the warthrone. But if it means they can actually make them, that's a good thing.

They're estimating 2-3 months for each kit, though, and since their estimates to date have been... a bit short... I think it's going to be a long time till those dwarf regiments are made.

That said, in the past they seem to have prioritized the corruptors over dwarf regiments, and from their update, they'll be in there as well. So... you'll likely get your wish, while a lot of IGG backers will continue to get nothing...

If he's coming clean, he should also admit his mistake and sculpt and produce the standard bearer, which doesn't need to be made in warthrone and thus could be completed and satisfy a lot of backers.

For my part, I think I'm done checking this thread for a while... clearly, it's going to be some time till they can get the train back on the tracks, and despite coming clean with this it means even more delay on the standard bearer if he continues to put it after the regiments.

I'm puzzled

He says his company is in good health financially with the metal minis able to support it even after the regiment box sets are pulled from sale

So why oh why doesn't he finish the Indiegogo work FIRST and get those new Dwarves out in PVC to sell to the world

and THEN re-introduce the older boxes like the corruptors in PVC ?

(and yes he should do the standard bearer first of all, but he's clearly already decided to ignore that fact)

Because Felix is as pig-headed as he is a talented sculptor.