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 Jackal wrote:

Broadsides are a pain to everything though, so dont see why they are an issue?
They tend to open up every piece of armour in the game with just as much ease.
However, you have a ton of lascannons / flamestorm cannons firing back at them.

You just said it - because you spent some 200+ points on a vehicle that a broadside will open up with just as much ease as a rhino. That's what, 5 or 6 times the cost of your other option for getting assault marines into a burning crater halfway up the field?

My Necron Warriors say "..." and let them go down in a blaze

 Lokas wrote:
Ya'll think it's the blasterborn, or the Ravagers that you should be scared of?

It's the Wyches.

Ravagers ain't gak unless they're shooting at AV 10-11, they cannot reliably eliminate AV 12. It's that 60 point squad of Wyches that doesn't give a feth about armor value that you should be concerned with.

Damn straight.

on-topic, spamming Land Raiders is only nasty against armies like (maybe) Tyranids. Every other army can take the toys to deal with them, correct me if I missed anyone.

 Testify wrote:
Land Raiders are laughably easy to kill by any competent army. The real danger is what they're carrying.

Fortunately, spamming land raiders in a 1500 pts list means that they aren't really carrying much of value.

Personally, I'd quite like to frace off against LR spam. It'd be a unique challenge, nothing more, nothing less. I'd hate to ever come up against someone that throws their teddy out of the pram because they didn't expect a certain list. That's war buddy, deal with the unexpected, you might even have fun along the way!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And on the dark lances vs LR's = gak thing, remember that the DE are a rapier, not a broadsword. They need to focus fire to bring threats down individually. They're the army thrusts into the gap in their opponents armour one at a time. Not swing wildly, hitting as much as possible and doing minimal damage.

I know, that means you're sinkning xxx points in to a xxx unit, but that's part of the challenge that makes DE unique (read: not space marines!)

sure you can spam land raiders. You just arent going to win against

Dark Eldar
Newcrons
Tau
Vanilla Eldar
MC heavy armies
People who put melta in their list
That seems to be about everyone in the game.

I see nothing wrong with spamming Land Raiders. It can either work great or go horribly wrong depending on how your opponent is geared out. Necrons will just wreck LR's with gauss weapons. I usually run my Tyranids with Zoanthropes who are more than happy to destroy your LR's.

Painbiro wrote:

on-topic, spamming Land Raiders is only nasty against armies like (maybe) Tyranids. Every other army can take the toys to deal with them, correct me if I missed anyone.

Nids have no real problems with LR anymore. MCs can rip them apart like nothing else. And LR have to get in close to drop off thier payload.

I generally am more concerned about the contents then the LR. Unless it is an Achellies as I HATE those, nothing like watching your units getting ripped up by the TFC in a nice AV14 wrapper. And it generally does not get in that close so you have to chase it around.

I just had a game with my guard against deathwing that had two land raiders. I didn't manage to take them down, but I won because he had lost pretty much everything else.....

The terminator units that disembarked and assaulted tore through the first unit they got to... but against guard that happens, I then wiped them out next turn.

Had it gone on another turn, I had a melta storm trooper squad and two vendettas coming in that could've taken care of the land raiders.. but by that point he had conceded.

My point is that they seem scary but they're so many points spamming them detracts from the rest of the list, as some others here have said.

It'd probably look cool haha, and some people might moan but I agree with what most people here are saying. A well rounded army should be able to deal with them and if there's so many spammed that even a well rounded army struggles there's not going to be much else on the table anyway.

(One thing that would put me off doing it is the £45 price tag! You want to spam like 6 of them you could get so much more for your money lol!)

 BoomWolf wrote:

 Jihallah wrote:


If there's that guy at the FLGS (or even the LGS...) who doesn't have enough melta/lance/plays necrons, it sort of is naughty.
If someone doesn't have the army/models to beat the raiders, then it is sort of naughty. You could be a nice person and let them proxy some flamers as meltas or something. Or you could be a fair person and say no WYSIWYG. But then they have to go buy meltaguns. At which point you switch back to your normal army because who's going to spam landraiders at a meltagunline?
At which point, you have now forced some guy to buy a whole lotta plastic anti-tank guns and models to counter your army your no longer fielding.

So in certain circumstances I can see it being "naughty"

I pity the fool who packs no melta.

Now seriously, if the dude does not pack anti-armor, his freaking fault. you can reverse the question and say "Well, i pack only units with few, powerful, shots-so i refuse to play against horde armies!"

And I pity the fool who fails to read and comprehend!
"The person who doesn't have enough melta/lance/blahblahblahblah"
"The person who doesn't have enough melta/lance/blahblahblahblah"
"The person who doesn't have enough melta/lance/blahblahblahblah"
"The person who doesn't have enough melta/lance/blahblahblahblah"
I didn't say they weren't packing ANY anti-armor. If you only have 2-3 squads/units with meltas, you might not be able to get them to the landraider. Having some meltaguns on the table =\= LR insurance. Having a bunch of lascannons and ML's and a few meltaguns is a decent amount of AT. Is it enough to deal with a landraider? Sometimes luck and the opponents skill has an effect on your unit walking up to that ridiculously expensive tank and blowing it. Especially since spamming melta really isn't the best idea. In your own words, "The biggest issue with spam-they do one thing EXTREMELY well, but they usually suck at anything else, find their weakness and exploit it for an easy win." So yeah, I'll hold my LR in reserve and keep it backfield when it does so you can run at my gunline with your meltaguns.
Ailaros (that funny guy) a few months ago had a thing about triple land raider lists for CSM. I scoffed and went "pffft melta", but then loaded up a txt document with a whole bunch of lists I've put together. When I went to the points value and checked it out, I sat back and went "well gak. I've only got 2/9 lists that actually want to dance with 3 land raiders at 1500". In your own words, "The biggest issue with spam-they do one thing EXTREMELY well, but they usually suck at anything else, find their weakness and exploit it for an easy win." So yeah, I'll hold my LR in reserve and keep it backfield when it does so you can run at my gunline with your meltaguns- which is why no one spams meltas so hard. Because no one spams LR so hard. So...

Erm, nids just got a whole lot more deadly to armour 0_o
The fex has no been rendered 100% useless (Was only S9 making it nice)
A trygon is now in essence a S10 beast!

While the idea is tempting, i am still trying to drag myself away from running 6 trygons, simply for the sake of my sanity and wallet (in no real order there)

I've run 3 LRs before. Won a tournament that way, even.

I expect them to do better because of less meltas around, but worse because of more lascannons, and particularly, a tau resurgence with railguns. I don't really expect the ease of hitting them in CC to matter so much, at least not if you have them loaded with something appropriate.

Gauss Dakka may be a threat, but my intuition is not so much. Too many necron players love Tesla too much.

IN the end it's the same thing it always has been....devastating if your opponent doesn't have the tools to cut them open, but it sucks when you run against the right match-up.

 Jihallah wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:

 Jihallah wrote:


If there's that guy at the FLGS (or even the LGS...) who doesn't have enough melta/lance/plays necrons, it sort of is naughty.
If someone doesn't have the army/models to beat the raiders, then it is sort of naughty. You could be a nice person and let them proxy some flamers as meltas or something. Or you could be a fair person and say no WYSIWYG. But then they have to go buy meltaguns. At which point you switch back to your normal army because who's going to spam landraiders at a meltagunline?
At which point, you have now forced some guy to buy a whole lotta plastic anti-tank guns and models to counter your army your no longer fielding.

So in certain circumstances I can see it being "naughty"

I pity the fool who packs no melta.

Now seriously, if the dude does not pack anti-armor, his freaking fault. you can reverse the question and say "Well, i pack only units with few, powerful, shots-so i refuse to play against horde armies!"

And I pity the fool who fails to read and comprehend!
"The person who doesn't have enough melta/lance/blahblahblahblah"
"The person who doesn't have enough melta/lance/blahblahblahblah"
"The person who doesn't have enough melta/lance/blahblahblahblah"
"The person who doesn't have enough melta/lance/blahblahblahblah"
I didn't say they weren't packing ANY anti-armor. If you only have 2-3 squads/units with meltas, you might not be able to get them to the landraider. Having some meltaguns on the table =\= LR insurance. Having a bunch of lascannons and ML's and a few meltaguns is a decent amount of AT. Is it enough to deal with a landraider? Sometimes luck and the opponents skill has an effect on your unit walking up to that ridiculously expensive tank and blowing it. Especially since spamming melta really isn't the best idea. In your own words, "The biggest issue with spam-they do one thing EXTREMELY well, but they usually suck at anything else, find their weakness and exploit it for an easy win." So yeah, I'll hold my LR in reserve and keep it backfield when it does so you can run at my gunline with your meltaguns.
Ailaros (that funny guy) a few months ago had a thing about triple land raider lists for CSM. I scoffed and went "pffft melta", but then loaded up a txt document with a whole bunch of lists I've put together. When I went to the points value and checked it out, I sat back and went "well gak. I've only got 2/9 lists that actually want to dance with 3 land raiders at 1500". In your own words, "The biggest issue with spam-they do one thing EXTREMELY well, but they usually suck at anything else, find their weakness and exploit it for an easy win." So yeah, I'll hold my LR in reserve and keep it backfield when it does so you can run at my gunline with your meltaguns- which is why no one spams meltas so hard. Because no one spams LR so hard. So...

Touch'e.


Anyway, so you will keep your raiders in reserve with a raider spam list?
What is left in the game board then? a few un-supported assault units right in the open? why would I run to "your gunline" when it is compused from mainly assault marines? you run to mine, on foot.

Not many lists might "wants" to dance with raider spam at 1500, but how many want to dance with driagowing or wraithwing? how many wants to dance with venddeta spam? the green tide? necron warrior spam? how many want to dance with a well built, balanced list?

The answer is pretty much nobody. the optimal situation to every list is to face a weak list of a spam you happen to counter-spam.

Now, that's not going to happen often, so lets consider what you CAN do to deal with said raider spam.


Keep forces in areas the raider can never reach directly due to terrain?
Focus fire on anything foolish enough to exit the raider?
focus them down one at a time?
Clog the area with useless minions that prevent the raiders from ever going anywhere useful?
Ignore the raiders and just hold objectives for the win?

There are many answers to raider spam, considering how the spammer plays.
much different then airforce spam where you more often then not need to hit the ground and pray, or a deathstar list who you need to keep away from as nothing you own has a chance against.

So as I said-spam away. I care not for land raider spam, its fair game, altough abusing people disregarding heavy armor as "too unlikely to care about". its not not abusing a lack of options for people to take like airforce spam does (many armies currently lack any anti-air short of fortification, and that's not alot of anti-air.)

with my daemon army id be frustrated at low points but 1500 and up id just laugh at you. and low points it would be a matter of if you could kill my soulgrinders before they open your land raiders open like a tin can or get glaced to death by flamers. at 500pts its pretty dick move to pull

 Jackal wrote:
Erm, nids just got a whole lot more deadly to armour 0_o
The fex has no been rendered 100% useless (Was only S9 making it nice)
A trygon is now in essence a S10 beast!

While the idea is tempting, i am still trying to drag myself away from running 6 trygons, simply for the sake of my sanity and wallet (in no real order there)

Ah, no, not really. Getting 2D6 armour pen. on their S6-7 was better than getting 1D6 with S10, or at least on average it is.

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:

Ah, no, not really. Getting 2D6 armour pen. on their S6-7 was better than getting 1D6 with S10, or at least on average it is.

The real big boost is the ability to re-roll failed armor pen rolls. Most non-Nid players don't even know using Smash lets you do that.

Spamming land raiders eats up a ton of points that could be spent on scoring units and such. 3 land raiders with no options is 750 points. In a 2000 point game, that doesn't leave much for dudes and such.

Anyone who refuses to play a game because you took more than 1 Land Raider can't be very good at this game...

Seriously though Land Raiders are no big deal. I would be more pissed to play against my 5 flyer Necron army than a 4-6 Land Raider BA army.

Yeah a Landraider is bought for what is inside. If you have nothing dangerous inside you have 2 lascannons on an AV14 vehicle with some rubbish inside for about 350 points.

You could as well field 3 Vendettas. You will get 9 Lascannons and you will be much much harder to take down.

1 or 2 Landraiders can be put to good use but if you spam more of them, you will seriously weaken your list.

I've done 3 with Coteaz and DCA bombs, worked pretty well. But that was in 5th. In 6th, I don't expect the LRs so much to be weaker so much as the DCAs make less sense against increased dakka. (yeah, you get one charge, then they're dead) And once you've spent points on actual troops the LRs are just too expensive.

 Gloomfang wrote:

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:

Ah, no, not really. Getting 2D6 armour pen. on their S6-7 was better than getting 1D6 with S10, or at least on average it is.

The real big boost is the ability to re-roll failed armor pen rolls. Most non-Nid players don't even know using Smash lets you do that.

Lol, guess I prove your point then. Good to know

Op this is a simple one.

Any legal list you should be prepared to play. Its all covered above, if i take an army tailored to hose down hordes and along comes a heavy armour list, whose fault is your impending defeat?

Two things from here, firstly, your list your responsibility. Drop AT capabilities at risk you face armoured list? Fine, but you own that risk, your mum did not make you leave your AT at home.

Same same the LR spam list. As above, that player is accepting lots of opportunity cost and is introducing lots of vulnerability into their list.

I run Aurora marines. LR very fluffy for me. Have taken two before but at some point I will experiment with 3 or maybe more.

If i met a noob who had a cry about my list im telling you the whole gaming community would not be looking at me funny but the child who is clearly going to exhibit a whole bunch of other over competitive or frustrating behaviour throughout the game.

Hobby people. Lots of big bugs, Belial terminator spam, too many space wolf armies, logal and njal lists, tacticals who forget their chainswords (pet frustration) is all part of it.

Rant finished.

 BoomWolf wrote:

Not many lists might "wants" to dance with raider spam at 1500, but how many want to dance with driagowing or wraithwing? how many wants to dance with venddeta spam? the green tide? necron warrior spam? how many want to dance with a well built, balanced list?

The answer is pretty much nobody. the optimal situation to every list is to face a weak list of a spam you happen to counter-spam.

Pretty much each of the lists I had in my text document. Except for vendetta Spam, since that didn't really exist in 5th in the form it does now. Most of those lists wouldn't mind the vendetta spam either.
I don't think you quite got my point- Spam landraiders. It's silly. BUT, I can see in certain exceptional circumstances, where it can be considered "naughty". One of my friends lives in a rural town, and he has 3 other blokes to play with in this town. When the metagame is 4 people, it will be much more stable as these guys aren't spending big bucks on warhammer, and there's only 3 other armies you will EVER face. But by bringing in a new game changing army, say everyone is playing marines and someone rocks up with a green tide, the old stability is thrown out of the window as the scene is thrown into volatile change due to a horde army being played in a world of plasma and MEQ/TEQ.

Can you see the point I am getting at?

Its legal aint it? I'd say anyone taking more than 6 flyers in a list is much, much more frustrating to play against.
Granted, I play Necrons, land raiders aren't my biggest concerns, just those damn assault termies inside that give me goosebumps

 Loricatus Aurora wrote:
Op this is a simple one.

Any legal list you should be prepared to play. Its all covered above, if i take an army tailored to hose down hordes and along comes a heavy armour list, whose fault is your impending defeat?

Two things from here, firstly, your list your responsibility. Drop AT capabilities at risk you face armoured list? Fine, but you own that risk, your mum did not make you leave your AT at home.

Same same the LR spam list. As above, that player is accepting lots of opportunity cost and is introducing lots of vulnerability into their list.

I run Aurora marines. LR very fluffy for me. Have taken two before but at some point I will experiment with 3 or maybe more.

If i met a noob who had a cry about my list im telling you the whole gaming community would not be looking at me funny but the child who is clearly going to exhibit a whole bunch of other over competitive or frustrating behaviour throughout the game.

Hobby people. Lots of big bugs, Belial terminator spam, too many space wolf armies, logal and njal lists, tacticals who forget their chainswords (pet frustration) is all part of it.

Rant finished.

What do you mean by tacticals that forget their chainswords?

Space wolf grey hunters rapid fire my tacs.
Next turn i hit them with pistols and charge. In assault My tacs get 2 attacks, 1 base + 1 for charge, while wolves get 3, 1 base, 1 for their massive aggro, and a third because unlike vanilla marines they didnt forget to bring chainswords to battle.
Like i said, pet frustration.

Your given the points and can buy anything with them. If the opponent doesn't realize that, then too bad.

The only sense in which spamming land raiders is "naughty" is in the sense that it may make the game less fun; but for YOU as well as your opponent.

Overall they are not overpowered. Fielding multiples of them is totally fair and legimate.

The issue you'll encounter is the rock/paper/scissors matchups. Where if your opponent doesn't have the right tools to pop your landraiders, you may be able to steamroll him and get easy wins. But if he does have the tools, he is likely to steamroll you and get easy wins. Overall this is balanced; but a one-sided game, win or lose, is less interesting and less exciting to both players.

I write this as someone who started my BA army running multiple LRs, and has run 2-4 in a bunch of games.

The first time I faced two land-raiders this year we played 1,500 and I had a generous supply of troops this time.

Very first turn I fired at his landraider I hit with 4 out of 5 necron warriors (out of rapid range) and scored 3 glancing hits. (6,6,6,5)

Sadly we had to end early because my next turn would have seen a squad of void blade praetorians descend upon one raider while scarabs got the land speeder behind them if gauss didn't finish off the one hull point left raider. A glorious battle cut short, alas I'll have another day.

But for people with very few str8+ weapons it stinks fighting a 14,14,14 armored vehicle.

The online time this was ever an issue for me was trying to introduce a player to 6th ed with a small friendly 500 point game, and he brought a LR....

I had only two things in my 500 points which were AT, kinda easy for two TL lascannons and the TL heavy bolter to pick them out.