Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 cuda1179 wrote:


If you consider it a Template weapon, does that mean you would allow it to ignore cover?

It is a type of template weapon, not a flame template. Not all blast or ordnance templates ignore cover, and I'm sure there are some things that use the flamer template which also do not.

 CT GAMER wrote:

Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
Still bummed about Paladins no longer being characters

Boo hoo...

It's a valid complaint. Paladins may have had their way with unskilled players, but they were never the top dog of 40k, or even their own codex. The nerf they got was way too hard, and now they're absolute garbage.

 Shep wrote:


I belive in 6th edition, the penalty to firing ordnance weapons applies only to non-vehicle units.

Don't know if you were replied to or not but - Very last paragraph on P.71 "Vehicles & Ordnance Weapons".

Kevlar wrote:
It is a type of template weapon, not a flame template. Not all blast or ordnance templates ignore cover, and I'm sure there are some things that use the flamer template which also do not.

You're confusing several rules there.

Blasts and Ordnance don't use Templates, they use Blast and Large Blast markers.
Template weapons use the teardrop-shaped Template. There is no 'flame template'... just the one template that is used by all Template weapons. All Template weapons ignore cover.

Swooping hawks with intercept count vehicles as being WS0 in assault. Really considering these guys now

Q: If a unit disembarks from a destroyed vehicle during the enemy
turn, can it Charge in the Assault phase of its own turn? (p80)
A: No, unless the vehicle in question was an Assault Vehicle.

CRAP!!!

For some reason I don't think a squad of CSM or Marines would just sit there and not charge the Monstrous Creature/Walker/Wych Squad/Boyz Mob/... that blew up their transport, do you?

 insaniak wrote:

Kevlar wrote:
It is a type of template weapon, not a flame template. Not all blast or ordnance templates ignore cover, and I'm sure there are some things that use the flamer template which also do not.

You're confusing several rules there.

Blasts and Ordnance don't use Templates, they use Blast and Large Blast markers.
Template weapons use the teardrop-shaped Template. There is no 'flame template'... just the one template that is used by all Template weapons. All Template weapons ignore cover.

I'm not confusing anything. I know 40k "dumbs down" its lingo, but all three of those, even line weapons are "templates" by definition (stencil, pattern, overlay).

What zooming flyers ignore are weapons that do not hit with ballistic skill. For the most part these are all the "template" type weapons, even line weapons which are a special kind of template.

So, with "heavy" replacing "lumbering behemoth" on the Leman Russ, it sure reads to me that with the main cannon being ordinance, hull mounted weapons and sponsons can now only snap shot when the cannon is fired.

Am I wrong in this? Heavy just says that it always counts as being stationary, stationary says you can fire all weapons (nothing about BS), but there is now no rule that overrides the ordinance restriction that requires all other weapons be fired as snap shots when the ordinance fires.

Guys...seriously?

It's been settled by the FAQ, until they change their minds on the next FAQ. A mod has already said to drop it. Either let it go or take it to YMDC.

dauntless wrote:
So, with "heavy" replacing "lumbering behemoth" on the Leman Russ, it sure reads to me that with the main cannon being ordinance, hull mounted weapons and sponsons can now only snap shot when the cannon is fired.

Am I wrong in this? Heavy just says that it always counts as being stationary, stationary says you can fire all weapons (nothing about BS), but there is now no rule that overrides the ordinance restriction that requires all other weapons be fired as snap shots when the ordinance fires.

You have it right.

dauntless wrote:
So, with "heavy" replacing "lumbering behemoth" on the Leman Russ, it sure reads to me that with the main cannon being ordinance, hull mounted weapons and sponsons can now only snap shot when the cannon is fired.

Am I wrong in this? Heavy just says that it always counts as being stationary, stationary says you can fire all weapons (nothing about BS), but there is now no rule that overrides the ordinance restriction that requires all other weapons be fired as snap shots when the ordinance fires.

The only good thing is that when it moves 6" it can fire everything ELSE at full bs as opposed to just 1 weapon. So, at least there's that I guess. But, being a cron player, I feel your pain.

Crazyterran wrote:
Overall, these FAQs are of very good quality. Mephiston got fixed to Mastery 3

That's not new. Mephiston was clarified as Mastery Level 3 in the original V1 FAQ. He can unfortunately still only take two BRB powers.

overkongen wrote:

Crazyterran wrote:
Overall, these FAQs are of very good quality. Mephiston got fixed to Mastery 3

That's not new. Mephiston was clarified as Mastery Level 3 in the original V1 FAQ. He can unfortunately still only take two BRB powers.

Woops, my bad, I thought that's what they fixed.

Maybe they feel that Mephiston is broken enough.

Crazyterran wrote:

overkongen wrote:

Crazyterran wrote:
Overall, these FAQs are of very good quality. Mephiston got fixed to Mastery 3

That's not new. Mephiston was clarified as Mastery Level 3 in the original V1 FAQ. He can unfortunately still only take two BRB powers.

Woops, my bad, I thought that's what they fixed.

Maybe they feel that Mephiston is broken enough.

I guess "broken" means different things to different people.

Stoffer wrote:

Crazyterran wrote:

overkongen wrote:

Crazyterran wrote:
Overall, these FAQs are of very good quality. Mephiston got fixed to Mastery 3

That's not new. Mephiston was clarified as Mastery Level 3 in the original V1 FAQ. He can unfortunately still only take two BRB powers.

Woops, my bad, I thought that's what they fixed.

Maybe they feel that Mephiston is broken enough.

I guess "broken" means different things to different people.

Of course it does. It's all subjective to the persons meta and point of view.

For a long time I felt black templars were broken in CC with a cheap vow that gave them pref enemy and everyone was fearless. That's been fixed, now I'm happy. Others didn't see it that way though.

 Kevin949 wrote:

dauntless wrote:
So, with "heavy" replacing "lumbering behemoth" on the Leman Russ, it sure reads to me that with the main cannon being ordinance, hull mounted weapons and sponsons can now only snap shot when the cannon is fired.

Am I wrong in this? Heavy just says that it always counts as being stationary, stationary says you can fire all weapons (nothing about BS), but there is now no rule that overrides the ordinance restriction that requires all other weapons be fired as snap shots when the ordinance fires.

The only good thing is that when it moves 6" it can fire everything ELSE at full bs as opposed to just 1 weapon. So, at least there's that I guess. But, being a cron player, I feel your pain.

Re-read the ordinance rules. As far as I can see there is no drawback to them when fitted to a vehicle. I read it that the Russ can move up to 6" and fire all weapons at full BS.

 Kevin949 wrote:

Stoffer wrote:

Crazyterran wrote:

overkongen wrote:

Crazyterran wrote:
Overall, these FAQs are of very good quality. Mephiston got fixed to Mastery 3

That's not new. Mephiston was clarified as Mastery Level 3 in the original V1 FAQ. He can unfortunately still only take two BRB powers.

Woops, my bad, I thought that's what they fixed.

Maybe they feel that Mephiston is broken enough.

I guess "broken" means different things to different people.

Of course it does. It's all subjective to the persons meta and point of view.

For a long time I felt black templars were broken in CC with a cheap vow that gave them pref enemy and everyone was fearless. That's been fixed, now I'm happy. Others didn't see it that way though.

I'm fairly certain calling him "broken" in 6th is a bit of a stretch. 5th? Yeah sure, 6th? lol.

 azreal13 wrote:

 Kevin949 wrote:

dauntless wrote:
So, with "heavy" replacing "lumbering behemoth" on the Leman Russ, it sure reads to me that with the main cannon being ordinance, hull mounted weapons and sponsons can now only snap shot when the cannon is fired.

Am I wrong in this? Heavy just says that it always counts as being stationary, stationary says you can fire all weapons (nothing about BS), but there is now no rule that overrides the ordinance restriction that requires all other weapons be fired as snap shots when the ordinance fires.

The only good thing is that when it moves 6" it can fire everything ELSE at full bs as opposed to just 1 weapon. So, at least there's that I guess. But, being a cron player, I feel your pain.

Re-read the ordinance rules. As far as I can see there is no drawback to them when fitted to a vehicle. I read it that the Russ can move up to 6" and fire all weapons at full BS.

No, you re-read the rules...

I will reiterate...last paragraph, page 71 under "Vehicles & Ordnance".

"Vehicles & Ordnance Weapons"
Unlike other units, vehicles can move and fire with Ordnance
weapons. However, a vehicle that fires an Ordnance weapon
can only make Snap Shots with its other weapons that turn"

Nothing in the Heavy or Relentless rules override this (seeing as heavy and relentless are near identical, just a 6" movement restriction).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Stoffer wrote:

 Kevin949 wrote:

Stoffer wrote:

Crazyterran wrote:

overkongen wrote:

Crazyterran wrote:
Overall, these FAQs are of very good quality. Mephiston got fixed to Mastery 3

That's not new. Mephiston was clarified as Mastery Level 3 in the original V1 FAQ. He can unfortunately still only take two BRB powers.

Woops, my bad, I thought that's what they fixed.

Maybe they feel that Mephiston is broken enough.

I guess "broken" means different things to different people.

Of course it does. It's all subjective to the persons meta and point of view.

For a long time I felt black templars were broken in CC with a cheap vow that gave them pref enemy and everyone was fearless. That's been fixed, now I'm happy. Others didn't see it that way though.

I'm fairly certain calling him "broken" in 6th is a bit of a stretch. 5th? Yeah sure, 6th? lol.

Did you mean to reply to someone else? I wasn't saying he was broken, I've never played against mephiston so I have no clue how good he is beyond what people say here.

Stoffer wrote:

 Kevin949 wrote:

Stoffer wrote:

Crazyterran wrote:

overkongen wrote:

Crazyterran wrote:
Overall, these FAQs are of very good quality. Mephiston got fixed to Mastery 3

That's not new. Mephiston was clarified as Mastery Level 3 in the original V1 FAQ. He can unfortunately still only take two BRB powers.

Woops, my bad, I thought that's what they fixed.

Maybe they feel that Mephiston is broken enough.

I guess "broken" means different things to different people.

Of course it does. It's all subjective to the persons meta and point of view.

For a long time I felt black templars were broken in CC with a cheap vow that gave them pref enemy and everyone was fearless. That's been fixed, now I'm happy. Others didn't see it that way though.

I'm fairly certain calling him "broken" in 6th is a bit of a stretch. 5th? Yeah sure, 6th? lol.

A Mephiston that hits Iron Arm is virtually unkillable. He's a MC with none of the draw backs of an MC.

maybe it's because i play Codex Marines and my Librarian special character is garbage, but...

 Kevin949 wrote:

 azreal13 wrote:

 Kevin949 wrote:

dauntless wrote:
So, with "heavy" replacing "lumbering behemoth" on the Leman Russ, it sure reads to me that with the main cannon being ordinance, hull mounted weapons and sponsons can now only snap shot when the cannon is fired.

Am I wrong in this? Heavy just says that it always counts as being stationary, stationary says you can fire all weapons (nothing about BS), but there is now no rule that overrides the ordinance restriction that requires all other weapons be fired as snap shots when the ordinance fires.

The only good thing is that when it moves 6" it can fire everything ELSE at full bs as opposed to just 1 weapon. So, at least there's that I guess. But, being a cron player, I feel your pain.

Re-read the ordinance rules. As far as I can see there is no drawback to them when fitted to a vehicle. I read it that the Russ can move up to 6" and fire all weapons at full BS.

No, you re-read the rules...

I will reiterate...last paragraph, page 71 under "Vehicles & Ordnance".

"Vehicles & Ordnance Weapons"
Unlike other units, vehicles can move and fire with Ordnance
weapons. However, a vehicle that fires an Ordnance weapon
can only make Snap Shots with its other weapons that turn"

Nothing in the Heavy or Relentless rules override this (seeing as heavy and relentless are near identical, just a 6" movement restriction).

So, Guardsmen now have even less of a reason to take Leman Russes when they have things like Manticores now? >.>

 Alkasyn wrote:
Q: When a model makes a Vector Strike or Hammer of Wrath , do
these attacks benefit from any special rules (such as Furious Charge,
Poisoned or Rending), or any weapons or other wargear it is
equipped with? (p37/43)
A: No.

Except Baron Sathonyx. He gets all his special rules for some reason.

Crazyterran wrote:

Stoffer wrote:

 Kevin949 wrote:

Stoffer wrote:

Crazyterran wrote:

overkongen wrote:

Crazyterran wrote:
Overall, these FAQs are of very good quality. Mephiston got fixed to Mastery 3

That's not new. Mephiston was clarified as Mastery Level 3 in the original V1 FAQ. He can unfortunately still only take two BRB powers.

Woops, my bad, I thought that's what they fixed.

Maybe they feel that Mephiston is broken enough.

I guess "broken" means different things to different people.

Of course it does. It's all subjective to the persons meta and point of view.

For a long time I felt black templars were broken in CC with a cheap vow that gave them pref enemy and everyone was fearless. That's been fixed, now I'm happy. Others didn't see it that way though.

I'm fairly certain calling him "broken" in 6th is a bit of a stretch. 5th? Yeah sure, 6th? lol.

A Mephiston that hits Iron Arm is virtually unkillable. He's a MC with none of the draw backs of an MC.

maybe it's because i play Codex Marines and my Librarian special character is garbage, but...

And if he takes any of those powers, he loses his mobility and he's not an IC. Not worth it anymore.

Wait till Kharn sees what the faq did to Gorechild.

Kevlar wrote:

 insaniak wrote:

Kevlar wrote:
It is a type of template weapon, not a flame template. Not all blast or ordnance templates ignore cover, and I'm sure there are some things that use the flamer template which also do not.

You're confusing several rules there.

Blasts and Ordnance don't use Templates, they use Blast and Large Blast markers.
Template weapons use the teardrop-shaped Template. There is no 'flame template'... just the one template that is used by all Template weapons. All Template weapons ignore cover.

I'm not confusing anything. I know 40k "dumbs down" its lingo, but all three of those, even line weapons are "templates" by definition (stencil, pattern, overlay).

What zooming flyers ignore are weapons that do not hit with ballistic skill. For the most part these are all the "template" type weapons, even line weapons which are a special kind of template.

But, not by GW definition, the only one that matters here. GW says there templete and blast markers. Dosen't matters what the real world calls them.

 Fafnir wrote:

 CT GAMER wrote:

Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
Still bummed about Paladins no longer being characters

Boo hoo...

It's a valid complaint. Paladins may have had their way with unskilled players, but they were never the top dog of 40k, or even their own codex. The nerf they got was way too hard, and now they're absolute garbage.

The new rule has very little impact on Paladins, and my prediction is that you will see more of them in 6th, not less.

Phydox wrote:
Wait till Kharn sees what the faq did to Gorechild.

There were no actual changes.

 Kevin949 wrote:


No, you re-read the rules...

I will reiterate...last paragraph, page 71 under "Vehicles & Ordnance".

"Vehicles & Ordnance Weapons"
Unlike other units, vehicles can move and fire with Ordnance
weapons. However, a vehicle that fires an Ordnance weapon
can only make Snap Shots with its other weapons that turn"

Nothing in the Heavy or Relentless rules override this (seeing as heavy and relentless are near identical, just a 6" movement restriction).

My bad. Typical of the rulebook that you need 3 different sections all in different places to get a full picture of the implications of a rule.

 Blackmoor wrote:

 Fafnir wrote:

 CT GAMER wrote:

Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
Still bummed about Paladins no longer being characters

Boo hoo...

It's a valid complaint. Paladins may have had their way with unskilled players, but they were never the top dog of 40k, or even their own codex. The nerf they got was way too hard, and now they're absolute garbage.

The new rule has very little impact on Paladins, and my prediction is that you will see more of them in 6th, not less.

WHAT

I don't really see how the loss of character profiles for Nob bikers spells their doom. Ok so they can't LOS each other. But the guys still have 2 wounds, T5, 4+ armor, 4+ cover, 5+ FNP (because who doesn't take a painboy). Throw in a Warboss on a bike and you can LOS to him.

The unit is still going to put out a ton of hurt and will still soak it all pretty good. I just don't see how they are suddenly not worth the points, when before people were complaining that they were too good.

If SW Wolf Guard guys want a character they can always upgrade one guy to Arjac Rockfist. He is great fun.

The lack of (ch) is a downgrade due to firing angles--however the forced allocation of wounds to closest model is more damaging IMO. That makes leading characters fairly pointless.

Again though, I do not understand the changes to armor groups that are similar yet led by a character. It appears in shooting you always allocate LOS first, then roll saves--even if similar armor saves.

 Blackmoor wrote:

 Fafnir wrote:

 CT GAMER wrote:

Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
Still bummed about Paladins no longer being characters

Boo hoo...

It's a valid complaint. Paladins may have had their way with unskilled players, but they were never the top dog of 40k, or even their own codex. The nerf they got was way too hard, and now they're absolute garbage.

The new rule has very little impact on Paladins, and my prediction is that you will see more of them in 6th, not less.

I don't know, that LOS rule was my solution to high STR templates and playing opponents who were actually smart enough to maneuver into a better shooting position. It's going to hurt a lot against some armies.

Edit: I just played a guard army with two demolisher cannons. He would have removed all my paladins somewhere around turn 3 if it wasn't for LOS.