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 Hulksmash wrote:
I'm just saying that I don't think people are realizing how ridiculous the basic Chaos Marine entry is yet. So many options for you to design units for what you need.

Speaking in very general terms, it seems to me that if you start with good, well-priced core units with a bunch of options, and then surround them with a wide variety of units in other parts of the org chart (some of which are also very customizable)...that kinda has to add up to a pretty solid codex.

What I've seen so far reminds me a little bit of the Ork codex a little in terms of having a core-satellite type of construction approach.

randomguy8891 wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

randomguy8891 wrote:
so forgefiends and maulfiends get 5+ invul save and soul gridner doesn't?

How long ago was the Daemons Codex written? How long ago was this Chaos Codex written?

Think about it.

how old is 6th edition rulebook and latest errata and FAQ updates? think about it

Did they faq the chosen, helbrute and cultists to match the new codex? They didn't and they won't bother with the soulgrinder until the new daemon codex gets released in a couple of month. Patience lil padawan!

Minx wrote:

randomguy8891 wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

randomguy8891 wrote:
so forgefiends and maulfiends get 5+ invul save and soul gridner doesn't?

How long ago was the Daemons Codex written? How long ago was this Chaos Codex written?

Think about it.

how old is 6th edition rulebook and latest errata and FAQ updates? think about it

Did they faq the chosen, helbrute and cultists to match the new codex? They didn't and they won't bother with the soulgrinder until the new daemon codex gets released in a couple of month. Patience lil padawan!

they did faq the soul grinder and added only fear but no save to his special daemon rule, and did't change it even in 1.1 faq version, which took place after the white dwarf daemons update

 AgeOfEgos wrote:

Ahh yeah I'm with you there--but after the first round--say lose 3 Zerks--you're looking at 7 less attacks. I honestly think that's worth the 2 pts + rerolling charge distance (which is a pretty big deal in 6th from my games).

But don't they need the Icon for rerolling the charge?

 Bloodhorror wrote:

 Brometheus wrote:

Spoiler:

Hmm the Chaos Space Marines riding a Juggernaut of Khorne become Cavalry, while my Bloodcrushers are "Infantry (as they are too slow to be treated as cavalry)"... GW, you freaking kidding me? Makes 0.000% sense...
Which would be faster, a Juggernaut carrying some ab-human space marine in heavy armour, or a Juggernaut carrying a single bloodletter? The daemon codex must be using prototype juggernauts or something...-.-

The codex does look kinda cool, even if not every option is equally good, which can be expected. I like the customizability in normal marines. I just hope Thousand Sons are a legit army in the new codex, as I was planning to start a new army (despite how ridiculously expensive TS have become with the new upgrade kit)

 Requiem wrote:

 Bloodhorror wrote:

 Brometheus wrote:

Spoiler:

Hmm the Chaos Space Marines riding a Juggernaut of Khorne become Cavalry, while my Bloodcrushers are "Infantry (as they are too slow to be treated as cavalry)"... GW, you freaking kidding me? Makes 0.000% sense...
Which would be faster, a Juggernaut carrying some ab-human space marine in heavy armour, or a Juggernaut carrying a single bloodletter? The daemon codex must be using prototype juggernauts or something...-.-

The codex does look kinda cool, even if not every option is equally good, which can be expected. I like the customizability in normal marines. I just hope Thousand Sons are a legit army in the new codex, as I was planning to start a new army (despite how ridiculously expensive TS have become with the new upgrade kit)

So if i'm reading the sheet correctly...Icon of Excess(slannesh only) will now give noise marines(or space marines with slannesh) the Feal No Pain Rule? Its no longer Nurgle?

randomguy8891 wrote:
so forgefiends and maulfiends get 5+ invul save and soul gridner doesn't?

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-cajqn9F-Fok/UF-TQVGt66I/AAAAAAAACbM/psJUB9wwm5U/s1600/P1050831.JPG

Did anyone else notice that these pages have nver been bound into book form?

 tripsix wrote:

 Requiem wrote:

 Bloodhorror wrote:

 Brometheus wrote:

Spoiler:

Hmm the Chaos Space Marines riding a Juggernaut of Khorne become Cavalry, while my Bloodcrushers are "Infantry (as they are too slow to be treated as cavalry)"... GW, you freaking kidding me? Makes 0.000% sense...
Which would be faster, a Juggernaut carrying some ab-human space marine in heavy armour, or a Juggernaut carrying a single bloodletter? The daemon codex must be using prototype juggernauts or something...-.-

The codex does look kinda cool, even if not every option is equally good, which can be expected. I like the customizability in normal marines. I just hope Thousand Sons are a legit army in the new codex, as I was planning to start a new army (despite how ridiculously expensive TS have become with the new upgrade kit)

So if i'm reading the sheet correctly...Icon of Excess(slannesh only) will now give noise marines(or space marines with slannesh) the Feal No Pain Rule? Its no longer Nurgle?

Plague marines still have FNP according to the leaked pages, no idea on noise marines getting it or not.

I suspect that the cult units will be able to buy an Icon of their mark that will grant them that ability.

 Vryce wrote:

 DarknessEternal wrote:

 thenoobbomb wrote:
This 'dex will be solid anyways, since it's written' by Phil 'Sidebeard'(from the WD ) Kelly.
And people will not complain about it being OP.

13 point marines will definitely elicit some OP cries.

Not when they're only LD8, no ATSKNF & no longer have BP/CCW.

~Vryce

They're LD9 as long as the Aspiring Champion is alive since they now come with him standard. And 13 point Marines are fantastic. It's not even so much that, it's just the potential with marks and upgrades. Oh hey there, 16 pt T5 3+ save infantry! Sure, I'd love you to grab that objective for me. Oh hey there, 15 point Boltpistol/CCW Marines with 4 attacks on the charge!

Then for an extremely minimal amount, you get Hatred (Marines) and +1 LD so that now the squad is LD10 as long as the Aspiring Champ is alive. C'mon, that's good and you know it.

 Zweischneid wrote:

Nvs wrote:


The problem is Space Wolves are only broken because of a few select units and 1 power. They really only have 1 realistic list which, coincidently, is all Dark Eldar are sporting with more than half their book being useless (and by useless I mean each option is such a distant second there's no reason to consider them in each FOC). He makes terrible rules, I'm sorry.

I agree. But even worse than the rules is IMO that Kelly's rule so often go against the grain of what the army should feel like. Space Wolves became a gun-line-army led by Wizard-spam when it should by an army moving forward with aggressive cunning, led by glory-seeking martial heroes. Dark Eldar should be a thinking-mans army of dirty tricks and lighting-fast razor-strikes, instead it became 40Ks dumbest drown-your-opponent-in-dice-MSU-spam-fest.

Kelly IMO really struggles to translate fluff into rules. I hope Chaos will be the exception to his poor track-record. I would have vastly preferred him doing Dreadfleet expension or whatever and leaving 40K to other people.

Honestly from what it seems its not, everything seem over costed...no new characters, leadership drops across the board, units that are more expensive but arguably worse than they were (berserkers). Leadership drops, and watered down versions of things that the loyalist get that are alot better, Dark apostle (Chaplin) and Warp Smith (tech marine)...And I'm sure there is more.

Are cult units only going to be available from the starter set? I've not seen any info regarding a release of them or the hellbrute.

Does anyone know whether the Raptors/Warptalons can get marks and/or icons?

 Crimson wrote:
Does anyone know whether the Raptors/Warptalons can get marks and/or icons?

I would like to think so, but you never know with all these other changes...it would only make sense that they would be able to take icons.

 tripsix wrote:
Are cult units only going to be available from the starter set? I've not seen any info regarding a release of them or the hellbrute.

I wonder about this exact same thing.

 Vladsimpaler wrote:

 Vryce wrote:

 DarknessEternal wrote:

 thenoobbomb wrote:
This 'dex will be solid anyways, since it's written' by Phil 'Sidebeard'(from the WD ) Kelly.
And people will not complain about it being OP.

13 point marines will definitely elicit some OP cries.

Not when they're only LD8, no ATSKNF & no longer have BP/CCW.

~Vryce

They're LD9 as long as the Aspiring Champion is alive since they now come with him standard. And 13 point Marines are fantastic. It's not even so much that, it's just the potential with marks and upgrades. Oh hey there, 16 pt T5 3+ save infantry! Sure, I'd love you to grab that objective for me. Oh hey there, 15 point Boltpistol/CCW Marines with 4 attacks on the charge!

Then for an extremely minimal amount, you get Hatred (Marines) and +1 LD so that now the squad is LD10 as long as the Aspiring Champ is alive. C'mon, that's good and you know it.

Oh, I absolutely love it. I'm not complaining @ all, I was simply responding to DarknessEternal when he stated that many people will cry OP w/ our standard Chaos Marines. I'm actually very excited to see them & I may actually start using CSM instead of solely cult troops as I do now.

Especially seeing as to how TS took yet another foot to the groin...

~Vryce

 Bloodfrenzy187 wrote:

 tripsix wrote:
Are cult units only going to be available from the starter set? I've not seen any info regarding a release of them or the hellbrute.

I wonder about this exact same thing.

They need to sell more Dark Vengeance sets before releasing Cultist boxes.

 Vryce wrote:


Especially seeing as to how TS took yet another foot to the groin...

~Vryce

We've been taking a foot to the groin since third. Just give us back our 3 Heavy/Specials per squad we had in 2nd, GW. That would help show us that you care at least a little.

 Platuan4th wrote:

 Vryce wrote:


Especially seeing as to how TS took yet another foot to the groin...

~Vryce

We've been taking a foot to the groin since third. Just give us back our 3 Heavy/Specials per squad we had in 2nd, GW. That would help show us that you care at least a little.

Have the point costs been confirmed for Thousand Sons units? Because I'd honestly be surprised if they didn't have a big point drop, I know that both Noise Marines and Berzerkers went way down in cost.

I didn't think TS had groins to feel the blow.

Okay, I'm a little sick of the TS players complaining. Get that discussion into another topic or whatever, boys!

I see great things. Compare what we're getting to the current rules.

Next, compare the new codex Tzeentch stuff to what an Aspiring Sorcerer could do at 24" in the 3.5 codex and just smile. If you play Thousand Sons, you've probably seen two or three editions. Suck it up, keep being the underdog, and adapt and overcome. Failing that, be happy that you're probably the only TS player in your area and just smile when someone says "I love Tsons but I don't play them because of their rules"...... Again.

This is sparta. Oh and another thing.. I've said this elsewhere and not to be some sort of "martyr" or something, but if I can handle the Tsons rules then you can handle the rest of the codex. I promise. The sky is not falling.

 DarkStarSabre wrote:
Also, let us not forget for +25 points you can get an Icon for the squad.

And make them all Fearless.

Since Fearless really has no downsides in 6th....

but the icon bearer is not a character so any character can target them with percision strikes. once he is dead you lose fearless. brilliant

 Vladsimpaler wrote:
They're LD9 as long as the Aspiring Champion is alive since they now come with him standard. And 13 point Marines are fantastic. It's not even so much that, it's just the potential with marks and upgrades. Oh hey there, 16 pt T5 3+ save infantry! Sure, I'd love you to grab that objective for me. Oh hey there, 15 point Boltpistol/CCW Marines with 4 attacks on the charge!

I'm not seeing the problem either. It's a shame that I won't have this book in time for my first 6th Ed game this weekend. But, as compensation I will be - for the first and last time - taking a Lash Prince/Plague Marine/Oblit army from the current 'Chaos' Codex as a sort of 'farewell' to that wretched book.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

randomguy8891 wrote:
so forgefiends and maulfiends get 5+ invul save and soul gridner doesn't?

How long ago was the Daemons Codex written? How long ago was this Chaos Codex written?

Think about it.

are we sure they get a 5++, i have not seen anything that gives them a 5++. They are a daemon, but not all Daemons have a 5++

 Exergy wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

randomguy8891 wrote:
so forgefiends and maulfiends get 5+ invul save and soul gridner doesn't?

How long ago was the Daemons Codex written? How long ago was this Chaos Codex written?

Think about it.

are we sure they get a 5++, i have not seen anything that gives them a 5++. They are a daemon, but not all Daemons have a 5++

Daemon is a USR in the main rulebook (pg 35) that gives the unit a 5++ and Fear.

 Exergy wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

randomguy8891 wrote:
so forgefiends and maulfiends get 5+ invul save and soul gridner doesn't?

How long ago was the Daemons Codex written? How long ago was this Chaos Codex written?

Think about it.

are we sure they get a 5++, i have not seen anything that gives them a 5++. They are a daemon, but not all Daemons have a 5++

BRB pg 35. All models with the Daemon rule have a 5++ and Fear.

 Brometheus wrote:
Okay, I'm a little sick of the TS players complaining. Get that discussion into another topic or whatever, boys!

I see great things. Compare what we're getting to the current rules.

Next, compare the new codex Tzeentch stuff to what an Aspiring Sorcerer could do at 24" in the 3.5 codex and just smile. If you play Thousand Sons, you've probably seen two or three editions. Suck it up, keep being the underdog, and adapt and overcome. Failing that, be happy that you're probably the only TS player in your area and just smile when someone says "I love Tsons but I don't play them because of their rules"...... Again.

This is sparta. Oh and another thing.. I've said this elsewhere and not to be some sort of "martyr" or something, but if I can handle the Tsons rules then you can handle the rest of the codex. I promise. The sky is not falling.

Lets just repeat it all so it can just stop...
TS players: Our squads are the same price as before... Even though psykers bring more, they should be cheaper.
DG players: why can Slaanesh players get FnP and my terminators can't?
EC player: Our weapons are salvo and thus make us static... FnP and Int bonus are never enough.
WE players: Our axes are only AP4 killing light infantry swarms isn't good enough for elite anti-light infantry.
Everyone else: Our key defining unit, of our slight not generic armies are now made fully generic. To hell with everyone else!

If its a problem for you maybe it's time to build a "chaos army" instead of a narrowly defined niche of it.

 Spartan089 wrote:


Honestly from what it seems its not, everything seem over costed...no new characters, leadership drops across the board, units that are more expensive but arguably worse than they were (berserkers). Leadership drops, and watered down versions of things that the loyalist get that are alot better, Dark apostle (Chaplin) and Warp Smith (tech marine)...And I'm sure there is more.

How are things that are cheaper in points suddenly over costed? Sure they might seem over costed when you compair them to GKs and GH. But when you realize that a basic CSM is only 3 points more than a firewarrior. Damn, how do you think that makes the fish folk feel? The book doesn't need to top GK (infact I hope nothing ever comes close to the cheese fest that is GK ever again) all it needs to do is play well and be competitive. And I think it will do just that.

I also find it amuzing how there is a major complaint about how most armies just throw away the moral rules section of the book, but now we have an army where those things will matter and people are still complaining. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. So CSM is no longer fearless or LD10 with a reroll across the board. The core rules for regrouping have changed. They are still Init. 3-5 so depending on what attacked them sweeping isn't guaranteed. Its just the way it is.

Personally, I am really looking forward to the book. Even if it doesn't spike up in overall power levels it at least feels like its got some of its swaggar back in the form of customizability, flavor, and options. 100% welcome upgrade over the last book.

How did the Ksons get worse then 5th Edition?

 aka_mythos wrote:

 Brometheus wrote:
Okay, I'm a little sick of the TS players complaining. Get that discussion into another topic or whatever, boys!

I see great things. Compare what we're getting to the current rules.

Next, compare the new codex Tzeentch stuff to what an Aspiring Sorcerer could do at 24" in the 3.5 codex and just smile. If you play Thousand Sons, you've probably seen two or three editions. Suck it up, keep being the underdog, and adapt and overcome. Failing that, be happy that you're probably the only TS player in your area and just smile when someone says "I love Tsons but I don't play them because of their rules"...... Again.

This is sparta. Oh and another thing.. I've said this elsewhere and not to be some sort of "martyr" or something, but if I can handle the Tsons rules then you can handle the rest of the codex. I promise. The sky is not falling.

Lets just repeat it all so it can just stop...
TS players: Our squads are the same price as before... Even though psykers bring more, they should be cheaper.
DG players: why can Slaanesh players get FnP and my terminators can't?
EC player: Our weapons are salvo and thus make us static... FnP and Int bonus are never enough.
WE players: Our axes are only AP4 killing light infantry swarms isn't good enough for elite anti-light infantry.

If its a problem for you maybe it's time to build a "chaos army" instead of a narrowly defined niche of it.

TS: Has the point cost been confirmed? That's the second time I've had to ask. In rumors before the book got leaked, Khorne Berzerkers were 19ppm, now they're 15ppm. So I'm still holding out some hope.

DG: I agree that this makes little sense fluff-wise, but gameplay wise you can't convince me that T5 Terminators with FNP would be balanced in the slightest

EC: I do agree that it's unfortunate about having to be static to gain the full benefit, but a unit of 10 can fire off 30 bolter shots that ignore cover! They will be the ultimate horde wrecker, I can't think of anything else that puts out that much damage.

WE: I play World Eaters and I love the changes to Khorne Berzerkers. They lose very little killing power but are way cheaper. Even with AP4 axes they're cheaper than their 4th edition incarnation, and Necrons, Orks, and Guard have to bite the pillow because Berzerkers always go in dry.
Necrons especially get brutally wrecked by AP4 Berzerkers.

Tyrs13 wrote:
How did the Ksons get worse then 5th Edition?

Whyyyyy won't it stop, sir?