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So firstly I would like to warn people that this is a rant, just so you know.

I have been playing CSM for about 4-5years now and I really love Chaos in all its form (have a huge army of CSM, Daemons and converted IG as renegades). I was really thrilled when I heard about the new CSM codex and models that would come since the updates to Necrons and Dark Eldar have been IMO a true upgrade. So at Saturday I peeked at gws site and I must say that I was disappointed.

To start with is the Heldrake, does anyone else get the feeling that it looks more like a children's toy (like those old plastic dinosaur toys) and the way its "missing" a tail makes it feel strangely cut of (like someone just chopped of the end). Then this just might be me but the exhaust vent at the rear really looks like something else ("don't" add a hand at each side) and its kinda disturbing in a bad way.

The aspiring champion is just sick, 20$ for a SINGLE "chosen" model. This guy isn't even a lord, just a single marine....

Havocs even thou the models are ancient and look like gak (compared to the newer models gw has made) they are now finecast so they wont get an upgrade, and they don't come with any upgrade choices so good luck fitting a squad with only missile launchers, auto cannons, etc.

The Warpsmith and Dark Apostle models I do like but why cant they come in a box with upgrades, the whole thing with chaos is change and these guys come as "standard template 1A", no upgrades, no marks and in finecast so they are more fragile and (this just might be me) harder to sculpt and make "personal".

Forgefiend/Maulerfiend look ok but seems like to much of an ripoff from nids and since they compete (not 100% on this one) with HW slots, paying 66$for one will be abit much.

I personally liked the old Raptors better since they felt more unique and these new ones are more like "Chaos Assault marines" but the new models look really good and got no real complaint about them.

Mutilators are ok but in this shooty edition I think they will fall behind a bit.

Chaos is all about change, the dark gods, looting and pillaging, the warp, etc. So I feel gw really do an immense fail when they don't allow their models to come with a good amount of upgrades. It makes me sad to see all this wasted potential to make CSM truly live up to their name.
Sure you can do a lot of convesrions yourself and its a big part of the hobby (have my entire Renegade army to show) but I get the feeling gw could contribute more to this and now it more seem like a giant leap back.
All new models have not been released yet and things might change but atm it feel like gw really let me down on the new CSM models.

Well that's my opinion on the new CSM releases so far. So hope I didn't drag on to much and thanks for reading. And aswell I like to know what you think. Am I just crazy, do you agree, and so on.

Well, I mainly agree with your rant.
A big fail is to make all those shiny new models like Helldrake, Hellbrute, and Fiends heavy support. They'll compete with Obliterators and Vindicators among others.

I have to say I was not excited one bit by the look of any of the new models. Most looked bad to me. The Dark Apostle just made me cringe.

After looking at the new chaos stuff, I didn't have much of a problem with anything except the heldrake. I couldn't quite place it but it just looked ugly. Then I read the OP post and he hit it dead on. It looks like one of those old dinosaur toys for kids.

It's hideous.

There's also the standard sadness that comes with seeing more finecast, but that goes without saying.

 wuestenfux wrote:
Well, I mainly agree with your rant.
A big fail is to make all those shiny new models like Helldrake, Hellbrute, and Fiends heavy support. They'll compete with Obliterators and Vindicators among others.

Well, the Heldrake for one will be FA (if the White Dwarf Battle-Report is reliable)... a slot not usually used a lot by Chaos Marines (though it might change with Warptalons, depending on how good they are).

The dark apostle is the worst model I've seen in years.

That Warpsmith however...... *drools*

I have to say I was not excited one bit by the look of any of the new models. Most looked bad to me. The Dark Apostle just made me cringe.

but that was the second Dark Apostol model chaos got this edition the first one [mace chosen from Vengance] is the bomb.

A big fail is to make all those shiny new models like Helldrake, Hellbrute, and Fiends heavy support. They'll compete with Obliterators and Vindicators among others.

and havocks who may in the future gain skyfire. melee dude <possible skyfire . Even auto cannon havocks are ok against some flyers. >

I see what they were going for with the heldrake, but they definitely dropped the ball with its look...I am hoping that forgeworld makes a better looking model soon...I do like the forgefiend models though, and the warpsmith is nice as well...I have a friend who plays a techmarine in our deathwatch rp and he wants to eventually use the warpsmith as his avatar when he inevitably dables too deeply in the warp (his character forsakes everything in order to expand his knowledge

I personally really don't like the new raptor / warp talon models- they just seem to have too much going on, and are way to expensive per model.

I agree with Falix that they don't have the same character as the old Raptor models. The old tall jump packs were cool, these new ones just look like cardboard tubes with spikes, and cost 10 dollars more then scourges despite being less pretty.

Also did anybody notice that the Battleforce got a price hike, and now comes with LESS models? Now it costs 120 dollars, and you get 5 less chaos space marines, and 3 Bikes instead of Khorne Berzerkers. Its not even new sculpts, just the same old Chaos Marines except less of them... that is a huge disappointment.

My biggest issue is how hard GW is pushing "undivided" all of the new releases have been undivided, while Noise Marines and Thousand Suns have been relegated to "upgrade packs". I know that "spiky marines" are the image GW is trying to push, but kits like the new Raptors have too many spikes now to easily be able to convert Slaaneshi, Tzeentch, or Nurgle.

But whatever, Chaos space marines are still probably one of the most convertible armies in the game, so creative people will still bring amazingly cool armies to the table.

the raptors would actualy make nice csm , if the cost of making an army out of them wouldnt be so high .

EC pack is so lol 150$ to get 10 sonic blasters . and you will need 30 for under 2k .

I agree that the Helldrake is missing a tail. I've seen Photoshops of it with a tail and it looks way better with one. I love the new Raptors, even if they lose their unique aesthetic to a degree. They're cheaper than the metal/Finecast ones too! I like the Slaughterfiend but I don't like that it competes for HS slots, which are full up in my Iron Warriors. I like the Warpsmith a lot, and I think once I put the skull helmet from the CSM sprue on the Dark Apostle he'll look great. The only thing I don't like about that model is the head. I dig the Aspiring Champion and might get him (he could be a lord honestly, he looks awesome) and I think the Maulers look awful. All in all I'm happy Chaos is finally getting some love, even if some of the models are polarizing.

 akaean wrote:


Also did anybody notice that the Battleforce got a price hike, and now comes with LESS models? Now it costs 120 dollars, and you get 5 less chaos space marines, and 3 Bikes instead of Khorne Berzerkers. Its not even new sculpts, just the same old Chaos Marines except less of them... that is a huge disappointment.

Well, find a discounter who still has the old box. Here in the UK, Wayland Games still has it. Someone in the US will too.

And I'd expect similar "downgrades" in the value of the battleforces for future armies such as Eldar or Tau (who, right now, have one of the best boxes).

Makumba wrote:
the raptors would actualy make nice csm , if the cost of making an army out of them wouldnt be so high .

EC pack is so lol 150$ to get 10 sonic blasters . and you will need 30 for under 2k .

As I play noise marines thats not quite right. Its weird. They have both an "Emperor's Children Upgrade Pack" Which includes some heads, a power sword, and one of each sonic weapon. but they ALSO have a "Noise Marine Sonic Weapons"- which comes with something like 4-5 Sonic Blasters, and a Blast Master.

And I actually am kind of glad that they are resin now, as the metal bits were a pain in the ass, and it will be nice to not worry as much about pinning, even if I run the risk of miscasts, etc.

Oh well, it would have been nice to actually get a pack of newly crafted noise marines though, the Emperor's Children Lord model is so cool looking with his screaming organ back pack, It would be cool to see some professionally crafted slaaneshi marines.

Am I the only person that loves the Helldrake?

I'm going to buy a small CSM allies force if only to use the Helldrake.

 Ugavine wrote:
Am I the only person that loves the Helldrake?

I'm going to buy a small CSM allies force if only to use the Helldrake.

No.

Having seen it on GD, I quite like it.

The Dark Apostle had so much potential :/

I agree with the op. GW failed hard and i won't spend any money on the current release. DV was great but what we get now sucks badly.

I think the Helldrake has potential.

A minor conversion, or simply building an alternate model is always an option.

 Grey Templar wrote:
I think the Helldrake has potential.

A minor conversion, or simply building an alternate model is always an option.

I think the hell talon fighter is 100x nicer model, and they cost about the same. I'll just have to put a tow hook on it for the vector strikes...

I don't agree at all. I'm perfectly happy with the new stuff, I just wish they could've left the current range alone and added these things into the mix, instead of replacing them.

I don't understand why they got rid of the old raptors. Now, all raptors will look really detailed and fancy,as opposed to just being "normal, plain jane". It's like if GW released a vanguard veteran plastic kit and got rid of the assault marine kit.

Wow, so much ranting here. For one, the $20 champion isn't strictly a champion; use him as a chosen, a lord, a sorcerer, or whatever. For the wanted upgrades the OP wanted, they'd have to make it plastic but clearly they like Failcast resin more.

Personally, I love the Warp Talon/ Raptor models because they're spiky enough to look unified with the Dark Vengeance spiky's and I hated the old Raptors. Such crappy modelling and poses. There is more creativity in plastics, as shown because of the ability to personalize and convert your own models.

As far as the website is concerned, I'm really surprised no one is saying anything about the "mutilators". They're just obliterators with funky wannabe-chaosy arms. And while we're on the subject, kinda, what's up with all the specialty troops being listed as elites and why are plague marines more expensive for less models?

 Azza007 wrote:
The Dark Apostle just made me cringe.

"Towels here! Get your soap-on-a-rope and towels here!"

 DeffDred wrote:

 Azza007 wrote:
The Dark Apostle just made me cringe.

"Towels here! Get your soap-on-a-rope and towels here!"

Dang, now that I see it again its pretty funny.

Of course it doesn't compare with the old TV antenna chaplain(I think it was that BA special character dude too)

And then we have this abomination, the only model the sculpters have personally apologized for. Don't tempt fate.

 Grey Templar wrote:

 DeffDred wrote:

 Azza007 wrote:
The Dark Apostle just made me cringe.

"Towels here! Get your soap-on-a-rope and towels here!"

Dang, now that I see it again its pretty funny.

Of course it doesn't compare with the old TV antenna chaplain(I think it was that BA special character dude too)

And then we have this abomination, the only model the sculpters have personally apologized for. Don't tempt fate.

...they sell him at a FLGS. I'd be lying if I said I wasn't tempted to buy him simply for the sake it being so...um...skully.

 Decio wrote:
Wow, so much ranting here. For one, the $20 champion isn't strictly a champion; use him as a chosen, a lord, a sorcerer, or whatever. For the wanted upgrades the OP wanted, they'd have to make it plastic but clearly they like Failcast resin more.

Personally, I love the Warp Talon/ Raptor models because they're spiky enough to look unified with the Dark Vengeance spiky's and I hated the old Raptors. Such crappy modelling and poses. There is more creativity in plastics, as shown because of the ability to personalize and convert your own models.

$20 for a model that doesn't look any better than the DV models? And those will probably end up around $5 bucks individually from online resellers?

And sorry but the old raptors are extremely nice models. If only they didn't fall over so much. One of the few sculpts I wish was redone in failcast.

I'm just excited we finally get plastic Raptors; my metal Raptor unit has never stood up properly. I like the new jump pack shape, too, the old ones never really looked quite right in the context of how Raptors were supposed to be using millennia-old Space Marine gear, the new jump packs look like someone took prototypes of the Space Marine jump packs and twisted them a bit to reflect Warp exposure.
The Heldrake is a little odd, I'd have preferred a plastic sculpt of FW's Hell Talon, but it's better than nothing and does kind of work in the context of Chaos' other animalistic daemon-vehicles. I'm not particularly impressed with any of the new Finecast models, but I suppose they could see some use as HQ units; the lack of customizability in Finecast models is an issue, but it's just a little more work to personalize. I accidentally bought a WFB Khorne Champion for my Tzeentchian WoC army once, a little green stuff, a head swap, and a few spare parts and you'd have never known he was originally Khorne-aligned.
My only real beef is the loss of the old Thousand Sons box, the upgrade pack doesn't contain nearly as many parts and it's now more expensive to get to a squad; though the fact that the upgrades are in the Elites section of the website suggest to me that it isn't going to be as big of a problem when the new Codex comes out as the fact that every Troops unit in my army is Thousand Sons right now...

^ Just a matter of personal preference; I just don't like the helmets or the thing holding them up (oversized grass or wind flow or whatever it is) And the fact that they were expensive AND finecast.

But I see your point about the $20 champ and the cost. Though I love the DV models; that's why I got 'em.

 Decio wrote:
^ Just a matter of personal preference; I just don't like the helmets or the thing holding them up (oversized grass or wind flow or whatever it is) And the fact that they were expensive AND finecast.

But I see your point about the $20 champ and the cost. Though I love the DV models; that's why I got 'em.

Don't get me wrong I think he is a good looking model too, just not sure he is worth the price of the terminator lord with all those nice options. Then again they probably raised that price too.

I did my raptors up with smoke/flames coming up off the base and I love them.

^ Your raptors sound good. Just the ones on the GW website have tufts that look like weird rocks or smoke.

IIRC the Terminator Lord is still 22.25 and is more awesome in terms of gear; but GW did intend for the new Champ to be just a champion; the Termie Lord gets more cool stuff because he is a lord, and thus more important for the army. GW wouldn't like making a plastic centerpiece model HQ with only one set of gear.