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I'd like to say I've really been into warhammer for almost a year. And Its really awesome and I like painting and its an amazing hobby. Me and a friend of mine got our two armies (Space Wolves and Blood Angels) and we had a great time playing eachother. It was all awesome and fun. A third friend of ours joined and picked up Necrons, and it is truly ruining the game for me. In his 1500 point list, he has two annihilation barges, and two ghost arcs. Bunches of warriors inside, and some wraiths. Actually, six wraiths, and a destroyer lord. I've played a bunch of games, but I wont call myself a veteran. I'll admit to being a sore loser sometimes, but this is obscene.

My First Gripe. Quantum-Fu#@-Shielding - Giving all armor on almost EVERY vehicle 13 FRONT and 13 SIDE. UNTILL it is penned. And while people might say "OH just assault it, just get close to it with a melta." WRONG. Do you know what a ghost arc is? Its a death machine. It can move +12 and still fire all of its guns from its hull (Open Topped @ Rapid fire is about 20 something shots) Assaulting this vehicle is IMPOSSIBLE. Anyone saying that they should "Assault" A vehicle that can move mathmatically MORE inches than you can in their turn than in yours must know something about the game I don't. Because its slowed. There isn't a way to get close to this.
Annihilation Barges. Do you know what they are? They're kind of like dreadnoughts, with their strength 7 shots (Like autocannons....Or assault cannons..Can't remember..) Oh! And they have another strength 5 tesla disruptor cannon (That's ALSO twin linked.) OH! By the way. If they hit a 6 on the -Hit- Stage. It acts as two additional HITS.
90 Points. 4 strength 7 shots twin linked. 2 Strength 5 shots twin linked ( I might have this order reversed with strength..) 13 front 13 side 11 back.
^^^
Does NOBODY ELSE HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THIS?
This is SO GOOD. WHY DOES NOBODY RUN THIS ALL THE TIME ALWAYS.
Why is this unit SO GOOD for SUCH little points? I can understand maybe because its "Not such high strength" But LESS than a razroback with 1 TWIN LINKED las cannon?
Less than a vanilla dreadnought with NO upgrades? AND TOUGHER TOO?!?!
WHY.
What's the second argument? Oh why don't you just get razorbacks. Razorback spam! And get a bunch of twin-linked LAS cannons. Hrm. Good point. OH WAIT NO ITS NOT ITS STUPID AS HELL. A razorback is about 100 something points for 1 shot with a twin-linked Lascannon at strength 9 ap 1. And theres a little thing I'd like to call a JINX SAVE. 5+ Cover save and it stacks with nightfighting and line of sight. So almost always unless the vehicle is out in the middle of the field (Which would never happen unless you're being an idiot..) will have a 4+ Cover save because of line of sight. So..I pay 100 something points for this vehicle to take 1 shot per turn, and then roll 4s to GLANCE 5 to PEN. This is GARBAGE. Taking a 100 point vehicle to counter something that is equally as tough with FOUR HULLPOINTS (ARE YOU KIDDING ME.) is impossible.

"Oh hey man, why don't you take longfangs." I DO. TEN OF THEM. All with missile launchers. Strength 8 Ap 3. These should do..Okay? Right? NOPE.JPG. THEY DONT. Hitting armor 13 with Strength 8 requires a 5 to GLANCE and a 6 to PEN. Which is slowed.

Second HUGE gripe within the first.
fething. Wraiths.
Do you know what wraiths are? They're fast attack spider-things that are technically jump infantry..(for some reason) And cost 45points per model.. OH
By the way.


(They come with a build in 3+ invulnerable save. And they're 6 strength. Also - Hammer of Wrath and Whipcoils making whatever they're hitting initiative 1)
For a 45 point model WHY DOES IT HAVE SUCH AWESOME THINGS. I know this is just complaining at this point, but does this not seem a LITTLE broken? TO ANYBODY ELSE?

THIS IS OBSCENE HOW GOOD THIS IS. 3+ invulnerable save is GODLIKE. It costs 30 points per model per terminator for a space wolf to just have one of these things, however the wraith model itself COMES WITH IT BUILT IN? WITH TWO WOUNDS. HOWTHEFUCK.

I'm just really....Really tired of playing against this army..Because as a space wolf player I don't know how to fight against it. I die in long range, medium range, and melee combat. I've tried having meltas. Combimeltas, terminators with cyclone missile launchers, three ruin priests + Njal. I don't know.

Any spacewolf brothers out there want to message me and figure this out..? Does ANYBODY OUT THERE FEEL MY PAIN.

I'm sorry for swearing. This is how I feel.

Post your army list.

I know I'm going to get flak for this, but



Man up, stop whining, and start thinking.
The fact that you called Ghost Arks a bloody death machine proves that you are definitely doing something wrong.
And assaulting the vehicle isn't impossible. It can move 12". So what? Use bikes or something to catch up to it. Hit it with multimeltas, anything.
Besides, if it moves 12" it can only snap fire. It ain't a fast vehicle.

I'm not a vet either but I've watched many battle reports with necrons in them. They are a strong army but if your having as much trouble killing a ghost arc then you or your friend is doing something wrong. They pop quit often in the battle reports that I see.

Try Grey Knights allied with guard doing a Dakkanaught spam protected by blobs of infantry

Krak missiles insta-gib wraiths, use them. Easy peasy, that, or drown them in bolter shots, or a vindicator would work as well.
Use drop podding grey hunters or wolf guard with combi meltas to pop vehicles.
Wraiths unlike most Necrons don't have RP, and are easy to wound with Toughness 4.

(lol, Space Wolves saying that other codecies are undercosted)

You have longer ranged weapons than Necrons (most of ours are 24 inches max), and you will beat them in melee easily with Grey Hunters.

I think you need to relax a bit.

Annihilation Barges are AP -- with the strength of an assault cannon, You still get your armor saves. Once you hit them, they break easily on a penetrating hit due to the fact they are open topped.

Missile Launchers, or Lance weapons, or Assault Cannons en masse deal pretty well with AV 13 vehicles.

Wraiths are toughness 4 with a 3+ save. Sounds a lot like a spece marine to me. So stuff that kills spece marines will kill wraiths. Yes their save is invulnerable, so don't waste high ap weapons on them. Bolters and krak missiles will take them down easily. Just force those 3+ saves.

Quantum shielding sucks. Tesla weapons suck. Mindshackle scarabs suck.

But so does jaws of the world wolf, counter attack, as they shall know no fear, squads of melta packing grey hunters....

You got stuff too. Use it. A few squads of grey hunters packing dual melta in rhinos, and a couple smaller squads or combat squads in las/plas razor backs and you should eat through that quantum shielding. Do drive bys shooting melta out the top. When your rhino gets popped, be close enough to assault next turn.

You don't have to worry about mindshackle scarabs if you keep your powerfist dude out of base contact but in coherency for supporting attacks.

Jaws will mess up crone. Grey hunters with a flamers and a melta/plasma (which is zero points) work wonders in a drop pod. Drop pods>razorbacks. Hang in there man, I didn't beat my brothers space wolves for like three months. If it wasn't hard it wouldn't be fun.

Sorry, but you're doing something wrong.

Firstly, BA and SW? Seriously? Those are two of the most competitive armies in 40K. If you're having trouble beating Necrons, just work on advancing your tactics. I would very much like to see your list, because as a BA player, you should have melta guns raining down here, there and everywhere, and SW are considered by many to actually be overpowered, so you can't really wine there.

Secondly, You do realise that you haven't even mentioned Necron flyer spam, right? With the strength of flyers in 6th, and Necrons ability to take a very large number of them, it is looking to be one of the most powerful builds of early 6th (though is yet to be proven such).

Thirdly, you need to take the game a bit more lightly. Yes, winning is fun, but you sound like you don't have ANY fun unless you're the victor. That's a very unhealthy attitude to have in a game like 40K. Try to relax in your games, don't worry when your friend beats you, and just think about what you could do better next game.
As a Tau player, I play largely on the uphill against many armies (including BA and SW), but what I do is learn how to better play my army and defeat my opponent, meanwhile simply enjoying the thrill of a challenging game.

So there's my advice. Work on your tactics, learn how to best play your army, and generally take the game a bit less seriously. At least you're playing with a fairly strong army. It could be worse - you could have picked Tyranids or Daemons.

As a ex-cron current Space Wolf player I have seen both sides of this equation so hopefully some of this is helpful. I will say now I don't intend any of this to sound condescending. I'm not sure if any of it does but just in case I'm throwing that out there as I have been told that I can come across that way accidentally.

First, ghost arcs can be annoying but by no means the death machine you claim it to be. Your friend is running it wrong. If a vehicle moves more then 6" in the movement phase it is considered moving at "Cruising Speed" which means that it can only snap fire. (pg.71 third bullet point under "Vehicle Movement") moving at Cruising Speed also means everyone in the vehicle can only snap fire as well (pg. 78 last second to last sentence under "Fire Points") So 30 shots (assuming full unit of warriors and the Guass Arc in rapid fire) is a lot less scary when its only hitting on 6s. Note that If he moves 6" or less he can fire one weapon on the arc at full ballistic skill and the crew can fire as if they moved. But now its moving 6" if it wants to kill stuff effectively giving you plenty of time to catch them with part two.

Second if you want to take care of vehicles in the assault phase, Thunderwolf Cav. Melta bombs are a cheap upgrade but I have found a Thunderwolf Cav guy with a Thunderhammer and Storm Shield does the trick for me. 5 Str 10 ap 2 attacks has yet to let me down on popping a tank. Also they have move 12" so they can get to the vehicle.

Wraiths are a true pain but as iGuy91 said those krak missiles will insta-death the wraiths if they fail their saves. Not a perfect solution as they still need to fail the save but its the best thing I have found. If that doesn't seem to be enough throw a wolf priest in those units so that you can reroll ones to get more wounds in against them forcing more saves and hopefully more deaths.

Hopefully this was at least somewhat helpful.

Guys I think he forgot the SW special rule of winning.

You aren'y taking 3 maxed long fang squads with 3 missiles and 2 lascannons each.

Oh, and a wolf guard in termy armor with a cyclone.

ok first of all your dead wrong on alot of stuff. your playing space marines? well heres some things to consider.

first: LEARN YOUR ARMY AND STOP WHINING seriously. whiners get absloutly no sympathy from me. all done? good.

now:

annihlation barges have a twin linked tesla destructer (the 4 shot str 7 twin linked) and the tesla cannon underneath. it is NOT twin linked. (unless he has a stalker aiding it). also, the barge is NOT a fast vehicle. its a normal skimmer, so it can move 6" and fire one gun, or stay put and fire all. its also only got a 24" range. in fact pretty much everything in the necron codex has a 24" range. (excluding heavy gauss cannons and doomsday cannons)

your space marines. you have acsess to a stupid amount of cheap, hard hitting long range firepower. for example, a tactical squad with a free missile launcher, a free melta gun, (or is it 5 pts?) and a razorback with a twin linked laz cannon. combat squad, and you have a short range melta team, a long range str 8 missile, and a twin linked str 9 shot. all of these save the melta can be fired for a few turns before the necrons even get in range to shoot back. do that unit x6.

yes the necrons are a bit tough to fight... if you dont know how. but spam long range fire, focus on something till it drops (glances still loose a HP, so you can kill QS vehicles that way) - youve also got acsess to storm talons. a rather dirty flier that can be a skimmer or a flier depending on its mood, and it can spam twin linked long range goodness.

every necron vehicle is open topped and armor 11 on the rear. (QS doesnt work on rear shots) so use your fliers, land speeders, etc to get into that rear arc. you get +1 on the damage chart, and +2 if your shooting a lazcannon or something else.

i suggest you read the space marine codex in depth, and learn your rules. do the same with the necron codex. once you learn that, read the BRB about 10 times. figure out how everything works, and you can do just fine against crons.

edit: wraiths are good, but fragile and cant kill much. no power weapons, unless they rend. you can easilly drop them by spamming missiles at them. they come at max size 6, and are only 2w each. toughness 4... heck, spam bolter fire at them. since they dont have FNP, force enough saves on them and they go down like anything else. instead of treating them as 3+ invuns, treat them like a space marine squad. shoot them with bolters, hev bolters, krak missiles, and whatever else and they drop pretty quick.

Tekik wrote:
If a vehicle moves more then 6" in the movement phase it is considered moving at "Cruising Speed" which means that it can only snap fire. (pg.71 third bullet point under "Vehicle Movement") moving at Cruising Speed also means everyone in the vehicle can only snap fire as well (pg. 78 last second to last sentence under "Fire Points")

True, but the Ghost Ark is a fast skimmer, you can move at cruising speed and fire at regular BS. The OP is correct.

AV 13 problems? Fortunately GW, in their infinite generosity gave you solutions!

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/Tau/TAU-BATTLESUITS-AND-DRONES/XV88-2-BROADSIDE-WITH-SMART-MISSILE-SYSTEM.html

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440292a&prodId=prod1620077a


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 amrogers3 wrote:
True, but the Ghost Ark is a fast skimmer, you can move at cruising speed and fire at regular BS. The OP is correct.

OP is wrong, Ghost Arks are not fast. Read the codex before posting?

As a Nid player, I've won against AV13 spam. If you can't, it's not the Necrons.

Edit: also - mathematically, a Grey Hunter unit's max speed per turn is 6" + 6" run, and then a 12" assault if you're in range. Even if it was Fast, it's not moving more than 12" a turn and still firing.

Do you only ever play Purge the Alien?

 amrogers3 wrote:

Tekik wrote:
If a vehicle moves more then 6" in the movement phase it is considered moving at "Cruising Speed" which means that it can only snap fire. (pg.71 third bullet point under "Vehicle Movement") moving at Cruising Speed also means everyone in the vehicle can only snap fire as well (pg. 78 last second to last sentence under "Fire Points")

True, but the Ghost Ark is a fast skimmer, you can move at cruising speed and fire at regular BS. The OP is correct.

Ghost Ark is not a fast skimmer. Read the bloody codex. It says it right in the unit entry: Ghost Ark. Vehicle (Open-Topped, Skimmer). Fast is not mentioned anywhere in the entry (Source: Codex: Necrons, page 91)

the only fast necron vechiles are the command barge, and the fliers.

both arks = open topped skimmers
annihlation barge = open topped skimmer
stalker = open topped walker
monlith = heavy skimmer
both scythe (doom and night) are fliers, and supersonic and no hover mode, and the command barge is an open topped fast skimmer / chariot.

rigeld2 wrote:
Edit: also - mathematically, a Grey Hunter unit's max speed per turn is 6" + 6" run, and then a 12" assault if you're in range.

You can not run and assault in the same turn.

Blood Angels and SW and you complain about OP Necrons / can't win?

Ehem...

Anyway, please refrain from highlighting every second word in your post. It's hard to read for us and looks very rant-ish instead of you actually looking for advice.

Also, as others have stated, post your army list to get elaborate feedback on how to improve your setup. Most 40k games are won before the game even starts as an army list can make or break your game.

Necrons are tough, you just have to be willing to feed some machines into the meat grinder. I'm guessing that being new players, playing a new edition, playing a new foe is quite the paradigm shift for you.

I play a heavy drop spam list with 3 main varients. One is very sternguard heavy with Lysander and Pedro (use this one for fun when I know I'm not facing min/max power gamers). The second is a Pedro with Flyer list that is a real kick in the teeth to anyone, but it uses 1 FW unit and really is a bit of a WAAC list, so I don't pull it out to often, except when honing it or teaching an uppity player a lesson. The final one is another IA list with Lolth leading a deadly Honour Guard squad, along with allied IG and some TH/SS terminators running around.

I've used the first two against 'Crons (3 different players) and have walked away with more than half my points on the board. I know my SM forward and backward, and can say without reservation that SW and BA should be able to handle Crons better than I.

As others have said, let us see your lists and the 'cron players too. Also, its amazing how often rules in your situation aren't being read correctly. Anything just seem OP? Maybe you guys aren't playing it right.

 Lobukia wrote:
Necrons are tough, you just have to be willing to feed some machines into the meat grinder.

Aye, this right here. I've managed to keep the scores in games about even against our resident Necron player, and that's using Sisters of Battle WD codex. It does take work as the Necrons are so damn tough, but you can do it.

Always keep your mind on the objectives first - it doesn't matter how many Necrons you kill if you let the remaining keep objectives while you have none. Second, focus fire on one unit at a time if possible. Once a warrior unit is all down it's not coming back. And third, harrass the rest of the Necrons in some way while doing all this. A Destroyer Lord that has to turn around and deal with outflankers shooting up his rearguard objective keepers can't advance to kill you.

From a Necron player, I will tell you exactly how to own those things you mentioned.

If your buddy players BA, borrow some of his assault marines for BA allies. Assault Marines deep-striking in with Descent of Angels and melta-guns equals bye bye Ghost Arks. This is actually the very reason I almost never bring my Ghost Arks anymore is because of how easy they are to kill this way.

Yes, Annihilation Barges are a fantastic deal for only 90 points, but just like I said above, melta weapons at half range absolutely crush them. They also have another weakness, there main weapon is only 24 inches in range. This means they must usually take 2-3 turns to be in a premium fire spot. Lascannons Long Fangs should be taking care of them before they can do a lot of damage.

A lot of Necron players swear by Wraiths, but I personnally do not care for them. Reason: A 10 man squad of your Grey Hunters with no upgrades what-so-ever can rapid fire a squad of 5 Wraiths and put a serious hurting on them. Weight of shots kills Wraiths, don't waist your big guns like plasma cannons on them. Use your normal bolt weapons to kill them. Heavy Bolters are VERY effective Wraith killers.

 DeathReaper wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:
Edit: also - mathematically, a Grey Hunter unit's max speed per turn is 6" + 6" run, and then a 12" assault if you're in range.

You can not run and assault in the same turn.

... True.
Still, the Ghost Arc isn't moving faster than you, just as fast. Unless you're in range to assault, and then you're moving faster.

Man up, shut up and post your army list. When you and your friend who plays BA manages to get this badly stomped by a Necron army you both should be ashamed! Learn your rules and equip your troops with the efficent counters mentioned in the series of posts above me in this tread.

The OP is clearly a troll. Too many illogical conclusions in his post to be otherwise.

 Goat wrote:
The OP is clearly a troll. Too many illogical conclusions in his post to be otherwise.

Illogical conclusions in a 40k rant hardly indicates a troll.

 -Loki- wrote:

 Goat wrote:
The OP is clearly a troll. Too many illogical conclusions in his post to be otherwise.

Illogical conclusions in a 40k rant hardly indicates a troll.

Indeed more indicative of someone who needs to learn how to play.

27 replies and not a single one from the OP.

If he posts his army we can help. Granted Necrons are hard being the newest codex (soon to change).

Wraiths? HAVE YOU TRIED STORM SHIELD THUNDERWOLVES, WHY NOT USE YOUR OWN GARBAGE? (annoying isn't it )
Ghost Arks? Tried Melta Wolf Guard or Long Fangs? Even Land Speeders?
Annihilation Barges? See above ^

Having trouble hitting with said Long Fangs? Try a Rune Priest with Prescience from the Divination powers.

1. Grow Up
2. Use better language
3. Put it across to us in a more helpful manner, ranting gets nothing here
4. Why post when you answer your own questions?
5. Learn your facts. I will allow for typing errors but: Lascannons are AP2, Wraiths are 35pts, Ghost Arks aren't Fast, Tesla Cannon isn't Twin-Linked.

Wait a second, pups and BA struggling against necrons 0_o


ok, a few points here.

1: Your talking about not being able to assault it.
You do know you dont foot slog the range of the board to get into assault right?
If you are, then you have a slight issue there.

2: (BA) DoA special rule makes them godly and applies to all jump pack armed models.
Drop a unit with melta by an ark or barge, then have some fun.
If you take a unit of sang guard, grab a banner for them and some melta.
Simply pop the transport, then flood the warriors with power weapon attacks.

3: (pups) Missile fangs have been the current craze for a reason (usually with a cyclone in there too)
Simply fire away until your hearts content.
You can easily out range them.
Also, JotWW kills necrons with ease, so i suggest taking it.

4: Wraiths are good, much like the units in both the BA and pups dex, but not impossible to kill.
Dont waste fire on them with good weapons, just work on quantity of shots forcing as many saves as you can.

5: Why rage? there are worse armies to play against, and your actually complaining about 2 average units and a fairly good one.
Wait until he learns the fun of a necron flying circus, or wordscape shard + tremor stave + special characters.