Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

The only thing that Chaos could really have done with is the introduction of a flier (such as the awesome fighter that FW produce), maybe a drop pod and a couple of LR variants. I would have been more than happy with that. Hell, I'd have been OK with leaving the codex as it was model wise and just polishing up the rules to fit in with 6th, maybe with some upgrade packs for various cult troops.

If you want LR variants and drop pods you may aswell play space marines and add a spiky shoulder pad, there are already far too many SM variants that offer very little difference between each other, every other 40k release has a land raider in the army list. Utterly boring. They may awell make armies different, wether or not you like the models the logic in doing "new stuff" is sound.

as said already in this thread your never going to please everyone. There would be a similar complaint thread if all they had done was add a new LR gun and a drop pod, of that i have no doubt.

I personally wouldn't mind some new kits for berzerkers and plague marines.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
So this month chaos players got this


And this



And these guys



But if you want to play 1000 Sons, or Noise Marines you have to buy some 10 year old conversion packs.



And if you want to play Plague Marines well they have some fugly finecast guys for you



And if you want to play bezerkers... well there's some 12 year models for you, available at today's prices.



Even the 10 year old Chaos Marines who are just loyalists with spikes and arrows green stuffed onto them didn't get any thing (though to be fair they got a nice upgrade sprue in 2008)



Cultists, a newly-returned troop type are only available in the starter set where they have some very nice, but one-pose models.

And this is true for other armies as well. The Vampire Counts recently got this in plastic



While the circa 1998 zombies got nothing but a price hike.

So here's my question, is GW making a mistake by focusing on producing new 'toys' which most people will only buy one or two of for their army rather than updating and upgrading core troop choices?

Insert obligatory "Look at me... I'm a Porche" piggy...


The spin now is that GW is a custom fugure "Collecting" company....

You don't NEED those silly basic troopers.... they arn't the models your looking for.....


As a side note- How in the world are you supposed to move that Vampire Counts diorama around the board without breaking it?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
It's kinda worrying when the thing I'm the most excited about in a Codex's release is a single-frame plastic Aspiring Champ...

Yeah, pretty bad-ass model. I bought one...though I'm honestly disgusted by the fact that I paid $20 for it.

I also bought a dark apostle, even though it's Finecast, since I really liked the sculpt. You can probably guess how I'm feeling about that one right now...

And in case any of you can't, here's a hint: they're still having "teething issues". This guy comes on three frames so it was hard to judge when looking through the blister at the store, but so far, gambling with Finecast (still) isn't a gamble that pays off it would seem.

 arkapello wrote:
If you want LR variants and drop pods you may aswell play space marines and add a spiky shoulder pad, there are already far too many SM variants that offer very little difference between each other, every other 40k release has a land raider in the army list. Utterly boring. They may awell make armies different, wether or not you like the models the logic in doing "new stuff" is sound.

I said "maybe" adding those in would have been a better idea than the stuff they have added in. There would certainly be justification for adding in pods; in pretty much every piece of fluff you have mass invasions by the forces of chaos using drop pods. Same with chaos atmo/space fighters. There are far fewer examples of daemon engines, but it's a shame that they decided to make them look like cheap toys, not only that, but created them in such a way that they have very little in the way of customisation of assembly to actually make them look different to one another.

as said already in this thread your never going to please everyone. There would be a similar complaint thread if all they had done was add a new LR gun and a drop pod, of that i have no doubt.

Possibly, though given the comments regards the new codex, I think that more people would have been OK with it

i dont think the problem is that the models are old, its more that the models just suck.

the basic chaos marines look terrible with their giant stupid horns that're longer than their arms. ugh theyre bad.

i dont see anyone complaining about royalist tactical marines or assault marines. those kits are still great IMO.

 Sidstyler wrote:
I also bought a dark apostle, even though it's Finecast, since I really liked the sculpt. You can probably guess how I'm feeling about that one right now...

And I got a Warpsmith. Hasn't arrived yet. I'm really dreading it.

I didn't get the warpsmith after I saw the price tag. I had to check GW's site just to make sure it was actually $30 and wasn't just a mistake...though I don't know why I had any doubt to begin with.

And to think I felt stupid for buying two figures for $40. Well, actually I still do.

I still don't get the heldrake. My mind is seriously boggled, I mean imagine if they did that for Imperial Guard...you hear rumors about GW bringing out a plastic "flyer" for the first time, everyone immediately thinks "Holy gak they're gonna do a plastic valkyrie, they have to!"...everyone has their wallets out ready to buy half a dozen the second they go up for advance order (because there's a good chance it could jump in price before it gets released), and what do you get instead? Something completely new and different, something that doesn't even fit with the established look and feel of Imperial Guard, something...that LOOKS LIKE THIS!



I find it appropriate that GW, when making the teaser video for the Chaos release, used the heldrake in a cheap jump scare at the end, because it's just...horrifyingly bad.

I spent my csm release day budget on a new coat for the other half.......book is meh, space zoid and that minging flyer won't be getting in my kr anytime soon. Book has been filed away under c for crap lol

Don't even get me started on the book, lol. I can't really judge the content since I didn't read much of it, but for a $50 hardcover book it sure as hell feels like there's nothing in it. It's very thin, and even with full-color pictures and a hard cover I still feel like I should be paying half what they expect me to.

Agreed brother, it's off topic but I won't be using it this time round.......I might even take it back for some store credit......

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

And I got a Warpsmith. Hasn't arrived yet. I'm really dreading it.

I picked one of them up and long story short I was converting it anyway so I didn't bother going through the process of opening 6 of them to mix and match the most usable of the frames.

 Sidstyler wrote:
I didn't get the warpsmith after I saw the price tag. I had to check GW's site just to make sure it was actually $30 and wasn't just a mistake...though I don't know why I had any doubt to begin with.

You don't live where I live. $30 is $9 cheaper than here.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Sidstyler wrote:
Don't even get me started on the book, lol. I can't really judge the content since I didn't read much of it, but for a $50 hardcover book it sure as hell feels like there's nothing in it. It's very thin, and even with full-color pictures and a hard cover I still feel like I should be paying half what they expect me to.

The hard-cover is hopelessly overpriced, but I actually need it. It's a weird situation I'm in.

I'm scanning mine currently so I can print and use a 3 ring binder and page protectors. So much easier during a game. Same reason the small book is better for rules. Soft cover and easier to flip through. Still bring the codex with me just use the expendable one to wear and tear.

Does the HC stay open on the page you turned to? I find SC tend to close unless you break the spine.

So there could be an advantage to HCs.

that said I doubt I'll buy anything but the next IG codex. I play so rarely there's no point. FFG's (insanely expensive!) books scratch my fluff and art itch just fine.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
OK, there's 2 rumors out there at affect this discussion, can anyone confirm them?

1 - GW will no longer adapt Forgeworld models to plastic. This one seems true, and would in some ways make sense to protect FW's uniqueness (why buy the Chaos Drop Pod when you know it's coming in plastic). But ultimately harms the universe as a whole.

2 - All models now come out the same time as the codex. Like others said my gripe goes away if in a month or two we have gorgeous new plague marines, cultists, etc. But I'm sure all rumors pointed to a single wave as the new policy.

Anyone know?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Sidstyler wrote:

Poor Dust, those choppers are some line-killingly bad models. And after they hit it out of the park with their heavy walkers too.

It's not neglecting the bread and butter than drives me mad, it's the change of aesthetic that means this release (which I had been considering my first foray into power armour) was a sad miss for me.

I think the chosen from the starter box, the warpsmith, the new jump troops, the aspiring champ are excellent. They have a wonderful melding of ancient Realm of Chaos vibe, eldritch chaos.

That doesn't fit with the new giant beasties.

That really really doesn't fit with the previous rank and file 'baroque' chaos.

So, for me, there's now 3 different aesthetics going on with the chaos army now, it's like some of it was designed in a vacuum. It's a total dealbreaker for me, much like why I won't buy any buggies or wartrack for my orks, it's like imagining if they'd only half done the Dark Eldar and you imagine an army of mixed 3rd gen dark eldar and modern ones... for me that's hideous and really really offends my obsessive compulsive need for things to match up and, at the price being asked for them, look good.

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:


So, for me, there's now 3 different aesthetics going on with the chaos army now, it's like some of it was designed in a vacuum. It's a total dealbreaker for me, much like why I won't buy any buggies or wartrack for my orks, it's like imagining if they'd only half done the Dark Eldar and you imagine an army of mixed 3rd gen dark eldar and modern ones... for me that's hideous and really really offends my obsessive compulsive need for things to match up and, at the price being asked for them, look good.

The ork buggies and wartracks are ridiculously old sculpts, and I think it's been rumored that we'll get new sculpts for those next year.

I know exactly what you mean about the different aesthetics of the chaos marine line, though - it's like a bunch of sculptors and designers decided to piecemeal stuff at separate times instead of all working together to come up with one unified look.

One thing that really bothers me about the chaos range is that there are still no sculpts for Thousand Sons and Noise Marines. I'm not talking Chaos Marine troops box + upgrade sprue, I'm talking a single box of 10 models that are all Thousand Sons or Noise Marines. The same could be said of Death Guard - a $45 box of 5 models isn't a great substitute for what could have been a $40 box of 10 models.

Absolutely on the money here with this thread Kidkyoto.

I love new shiny toys as much as the next person (apart from the Helldrake) and quite often impulse buy them. BUT I would love to see some updates to the troops especially for Chaos, I get that Forgeworld has some conversion kits which help out for Khorne and Nurgle, but Tzeentch and Slannesh again get nothing new, together with the standard spiky arrow marines. It's often the shiny things that get us into an army, but then never finish as the other models are too rubbish to contemplate or simply too expensive to convert cool looking ones.

They should have done a better job just like Dark Eldar, where the old and new lines just don't match. Necrons wasn't too bad, as they are easy to match, but I still hate the glowing plastic green rods a doom on the old warriors, but then again it makes you buy a whole ghost ark to convert good ploy GW.

Hopefully they don't do them same for Eldar and Tau which are rumoured for 2013, just imagine those lovely old guardian models with a price rise.

Question about the book, which is going to judge whether or not I get back into 40k or not.

Compared to 3edV2, and 5ed...how are the CSM? Are they still the neutered piles of crap that they made them? or have they brought back awesome variety and options?
Or just 2 big stupid things that are meant to suck money from mom and dads pocket?

Thanks

I'm going with the already-said notion of "If it ain't broke, don't fix it". I have *no problem* with those standard Chaos Marines. They look good, and have plenty of modelling opportunities. The Plague Marines too, they look well done considering they're older. (To be fair, if GW did release a Plague Marine update set it could be well competing price-wise against the set done by FW which is better; why release something if it's already being done by FW). I agree that there does seem to be a hint of laziness with this wave, but there's nothing wrong with that set. If we *had* got new CSM, people would be complaing that they have to update their entire troop selection, and why couldn't they use the older models. Just look on the plus side: we get new Raptors, the Thousand Sons still look good despite them being 10 year old packs, and while it would have been good to see some character resculpts, you can easily make your own from the already extensive modelling opportunities given to us by the CSM and CT sets.

I'm with MGS on this one, the change in an entire new line's aesthetic is the worst part of these situations, and to me Necrons are a perfect example of this. Warriors, Destroyers, and Monoliths all have the old glowy green rods, but everything else gets a new look for gauss, so that you've got one weapon type with two completely different looks. I'd certainly be in no big hurry to upgrade all my old stuff, but it'd be nice to at least have the option to have a cohesive looking army. The rods in the new gauss aren't even the same length as the green rods so swapping bits in isn't a very time-effective option.

And no crying that Necrons got a whole new line...95% of the models they put out for this codex didn't even exist before.

It's a trade off, but I doubt that their time was limited by the new models. Likely they were limited by fantasy releases or spreading too few sculpters too thin. The chaos release was anemic and this is supposed to be a total relaunch of the book with a hardcover codex and affirmation of sixth edition. Talk about starting off without a bang.

I have no interest in the dinobots* or the dragon, but I'm pretty sure we are not done with the CSM release yet. At the very least we should have Helbrute and Chaos cultist multi-part kits still coming and possibly Chosen as well. They can't rely on people buying starter sets to get these models, which are pretty integral to the Chaos Codex.

They brought out the shiny big guns for the initial release in hopes that people would get very excited about them and buy lots. There was a rumor about a second CSM release on October 20th and we have seen pretty solid rumors of the contents of a cultists multi-part box, so I have little doubt that there is another CSM release coming soon

* I'm thinking that a Tyranid Tervigon might be a better starting point for a Nurgle Forgefiend/Maulerfiend

Tim

timd wrote:

They can't rely on people buying starter sets to get these models, which are pretty integral to the Chaos Codex.

Ork Deffkoptaz might be willing to disagree with you.

I fully expect them to take piles of old metals from old lines like necromunda/Gorkamorka/fantasy and release them as a metal-to-finecast box of cultists. They love to pimp out their old models as 'collectors'

timd wrote:

I have no interest in the dinobots* or the dragon, but I'm pretty sure we are not done with the CSM release yet. At the very least we should have Helbrute and Chaos cultist multi-part kits still coming and possibly Chosen as well. They can't rely on people buying starter sets to get these models, which are pretty integral to the Chaos Codex.

They brought out the shiny big guns for the initial release in hopes that people would get very excited about them and buy lots. There was a rumor about a second CSM release on October 20th and we have seen pretty solid rumors of the contents of a cultists multi-part box, so I have little doubt that there is another CSM release coming soon

* I'm thinking that a Tyranid Tervigon might be a better starting point for a Nurgle Forgefiend/Maulerfiend

Tim

That would be good news, the starter cultists are ace and I'd love to get them on their own.

But then again GW never did Ork deff copters except for the last starter set so it's possible they feel they've covered that base.

nkelsch wrote:

timd wrote:

They can't rely on people buying starter sets to get these models, which are pretty integral to the Chaos Codex.

Ork Deffkoptaz might be willing to disagree with you.

Yeah, but wasn't there a metal Deffkopta model that was also available, so that the box set was not the ONLY source of Deffkoptas?

I fully expect them to take piles of old metals from old lines like necromunda/Gorkamorka/fantasy and release them as a metal-to-finecast box of cultists. They love to pimp out their old models as 'collectors'

Ugh, what a horrible idea, and I don't think its terribly realistic either. Far better to take the starter set cultist 3D sculpts (already done) and modify them a bit to make a multi-part kit. This makes Chaos and Necromunda players happy and gives everyone some potential civilians to play with.

Tim

I think it's more likely that what we're going to see with the Cultists is what they did with the Lothern Sea Guard from "Island of Blood".

I could see them releasing two "sets", one with each of the gun toting Cultist variants and the other with each of the CCW Cultist variants.

 ShumaGorath wrote:

 curran12 wrote:

nkelsch wrote:

And if they were the complaint would be: they have remade too much! It is not fair to have to buy all new stuff! I see no reason to arbitrarily remake old valid models, people like new toys and expanding model lines.

This. SO THIS.

"How DARE they make me get new core troop models! GW IS NEGLECTING US AND RIPPING US OFF!"

No one on earth would complain about a resculpt for Abbadon. That model if fething awful and he's one of the posterboys of 40k. This 40k release is one of the laziest releases GW has made in years. After the total resculpts of the DE and necron lines you would think that they'd do the same here. Chaos sure as hell needs it. No one buys the finecast plaguemarines. I have never seen a box of those move to anyone.

"Puts on the corporate warrior capitalist cap on and proceeds to rant in a satirical manner".

(First line of thought) - Perhaps they do not have the revenue that everyone thinks that they have to put out more models as before.
(Second line of thought) - Lazy? Naaa. The corporation only puts Approx 1% ( think is 1.4% actually) of revenue made into R&D for their product line. As long as the sheeple keep on buying product, why should GW change policy on their marketing, quality of product and quality of service?

"Takes off hat and ends of rant with a smile".

 Kanluwen wrote:
I think it's more likely that what we're going to see with the Cultists is what they did with the Lothern Sea Guard from "Island of Blood".

I could see them releasing two "sets", one with each of the gun toting Cultist variants and the other with each of the CCW Cultist variants.

This is the rumor from Faeit. Pretty solid/specific rumor...

Quote Originally Posted by natfka
via Faeit 212 (a Must Remain Anonymous Source)

Oh, and cultists are getting a plastic box of 10 that comes with 10 sets of auto pistol / ccw arms, 10 autoguns, 2 shotguns, 1 heavy stubber, 1 flamer, 1 grenade launcher, 1 icon (with several top options), 1 power axe, 1 power maul and a bunch of bits to put here and there (such as frag grenades and trophies). Only thing I didn't see was a power sword.

theQuanz wrote:
Question about the book, which is going to judge whether or not I get back into 40k or not.

Compared to 3edV2, and 5ed...how are the CSM? Are they still the neutered piles of crap that they made them? or have they brought back awesome variety and options?
Or just 2 big stupid things that are meant to suck money from mom and dads pocket?

Thanks

Dont waste your money on the book.......its terrible. If you go fishing in my bin you could find my copy and have a look yourself.

I soldiered on with that crappy previous codex and as a massive kick in the babymaker I get this new book as my reward, forget the gods of chaos - the corpse emperor is full of win.

I still have my elysians and orks to use in the meantime, I just prey by the time the orks get done again they put out a good book

Do yourself a favour and find the free download before you go buying the book...you may like it - but I dont lol

Definitely agree with the OP. And it's not just a line-by-line problem: I'm still annoyed that GW wasted a double-size sprue on limited edition skull-shaped rocks but still can't be arsed to give the Sisters of Battle one measly plastic HQ/Elites/Troops/Fast Attack/Heavy Support kit.

Good, affordable rank-and-file models are a foundation to build on. Neglecting that in favour of stuff nobody ever asked for sucks.