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I thought mechanical space dragons are the new bread and butter for chaos. I'm sure Horus rode one around back in the day.

 Ouze wrote:

How can you say that when the new Raptors look so awesome?

Well, they look like cheap tat for a start

The look kind of swollen and over detailed without any overall direction for that detailing.

Well, to paraphrase Stringer Bell, it seems I can't say anything to change y'all minds.

But I love the teefs on the vents; the spikes on the boots, and the throwback styling on the helmets and jump packs. The hooks on the edges of chainswords look awesome as well, in my opinion.

Not including a plastic Chosen kit in the first wave was missed opportunity, in my opinion. I would have bought 3.

Also, with the change to the weapons that terminators can take in this codex, they need a new kit so that you can actually make a legal squad.

I would have liked to have seen a bunch of new should pads to represent the Marks. I want to show a mark of Nurgle, Slaneesh, Tzeentch, or Khorne. I suppose I could use the berzerker pads for Khorne, though.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

timd wrote:
Oh, and cultists are getting a plastic box of 10 that comes with 10 sets of auto pistol / ccw arms, 10 autoguns, 2 shotguns, 1 heavy stubber, 1 flamer, 1 grenade launcher, 1 icon (with several top options), 1 power axe, 1 power maul and a bunch of bits to put here and there (such as frag grenades and trophies). Only thing I didn't see was a power sword.

Given that Cultists can’t get any sort of power weapon, Grenade Launchers or Icons, I think it’s safe to say that this is probably bunk.

Good point! My codex should arrive today so I can actually read the cultist listing. I'm still hoping though...

Tim

 kronk wrote:
Also, with the change to the weapons that terminators can take in this codex, they need a new kit so that you can actually make a legal squad.

You can't make a legal squad from the Termy box now, kronk? How come?

I don't know exactly what the termi kit comes with but you can no longer arm a termi with both a special melee weapon as well as a special ranged weapon.

You can, though barely.

Champion w/ Combi-flamer & Power Mace
Terminator w/ Combi-bolter & Power Fist
Terminator w/ Combi-bolter & Chain Fist
Terminator w/ Combi-melta & Power Axe
Terminator w/ Reaper AC/Heavy Flamer & Power Axe

There's little beyond that (PF instead of CF) unless you splash out for the CSM Termie Lord for extra arms.

 Vladsimpaler wrote:

 Flashman wrote:


3. Fantasy and 40K were originally designed as infantry games. I'm not sure all this big stuff is doing the game mechanics any favours to be honest. As Rick Priestly pointed shortly after he left, a 6" long vehicle in a game revolving around 12" ranges kind of skews game play somewhat.

I'd be interested in reading the interview where he said that! If you could shoot me a PM or even post it here I'd appreciate it.

Here's the relevant quote and link...

http://talesfromthemaelstrom.blogspot.co.uk/2011/09/rick-priestley-interview.html

What sort of scale did you originally envisage Rogue Trader playing out at? The rules, some of the narrative examples and the sections on randomly determining forces suggest a very small number of miniatures per side (we find it works great with 20ish per side). Did you ever think you’d see games with hundreds of models per side and huge war machines being used?

That sounds about right. The game was written as a skirmish wargame for about thirty models a side. That’s about the size we used to play. Again – it wasn’t expected to sell, so there was no imperative to facilitate huge games. I don’t think huge vehicles work at all – unless you really do have very large battlefields – games break down when the size of a vehicle starts to intrude upon weapon ranges and figure moves. Bit odd when a pistol shot can’t go from one end of a tank to the other! That wasn’t so much of problem back in the day, but as the models got bigger, and the vehicles especially so, it started to erode the relationship between the models, ranges and moves.

 -DE- wrote:
You can, though barely.

Champion w/ Combi-flamer & Power Mace
Terminator w/ Combi-bolter & Power Fist
Terminator w/ Combi-bolter & Chain Fist
Terminator w/ Combi-melta & Power Axe
Terminator w/ Reaper AC/Heavy Flamer & Power Axe

There's little beyond that (PF instead of CF) unless you splash out for the CSM Termie Lord for extra arms.

Thanks for that! Glad that I was wrong. However, that's not the loadout I'd want. I mainly play against marines and would want a few power swords in there.

Do vanilla CSM models really need an update? They look fine to me.

If anything I'm more annoyed that I have to shell out 38AUD for space egyptians.

Yes, yes they do. All the new chaos stuff coming out looks totally different. The old guys are marines with spikes while the new stuff is mutated marines, they no longer fit the same theme.

 jonolikespie wrote:
Yes, yes they do. All the new chaos stuff coming out looks totally different. The old guys are marines with spikes while the new stuff is mutated marines, they no longer fit the same theme.

So all vanilla ones should show mutations? I'd agree with them getting new models just from a detail standpoint. I thought the point of the vanilla ones was they were basepoint from which you could go onto customise them how you wish.

How would you change them?

the chaos terminators are so bulky and ackward looking.

i hate the goofy oversized mammoth tusks and the trophy wracks. bad poses... just bad all around.

forgeworld ones are so much better:

http://www.coolminiornot.com/254743?browseid=3037833

 MrScience wrote:

 jonolikespie wrote:
Yes, yes they do. All the new chaos stuff coming out looks totally different. The old guys are marines with spikes while the new stuff is mutated marines, they no longer fit the same theme.

So all vanilla ones should show mutations? I'd agree with them getting new models just from a detail standpoint. I thought the point of the vanilla ones was they were basepoint from which you could go onto customise them how you wish.

How would you change them?

Basically, I'd just make them look more like the new raptors only with less lightning bolts on the legs. As well they could use the same treatment other marines have gotten recently where there is every option you could want on the sprue as well as a crapload of extra heads and other stuff. What I like about the new stuff is that the armour is vaguely Mk 7 ish but clearly different, the old stuff is blatantly Mk 7 with spikes added.

*shrug* I dunno, I think it's probably smart marketing by GW. They've covered their bases in terms of models/units (the Chapterhouse effect), lead with some big shiny new impulse buys, and saved some important kits for what should be a very meaty and profitable second wave.

We should probably expect to see codex/army book releases follow this same general pattern going forward.

kb305 wrote:
the chaos terminators are so bulky and ackward looking.

i hate the goofy oversized mammoth tusks and the trophy wracks. bad poses... just bad all around.

forgeworld ones are so much better:

http://www.coolminiornot.com/254743?browseid=3037833

AND the lack of options! For $50 I would expect to be able to make any legal unit in the codex but instead you just get one of each comibweapon and not even enough power weapons for the whole unit!

ARG!

I h8 that kit so, so much...

 ShumaGorath wrote:


No one on earth would complain about a resculpt for Abbadon. That model if fething awful and he's one of the posterboys of 40k. This 40k release is one of the laziest releases GW has made in years. After the total resculpts of the DE and necron lines you would think that they'd do the same here. Chaos sure as hell needs it. No one buys the finecast plaguemarines. I have never seen a box of those move to anyone.

For the record, I own 3 boxes of the finecast Plague Marines.

Overall, I agree with you. The basic troop choices for CSM are lagging behind the powercurve of aesthetics these days. If they redid my beloved Plaguemarines, I'd probably consider playing again. Some of the sculpts are looking somewhat dated, and should be redone. I think that in many places, Eldar fall into this category as well.

Vanilla SM don't really need new kits however, because nothing has progressed really in the story to give a reason for it, I mean, Mk. 7 power armor is still Mk 7.

For marines, plastic marines in historical armor would sell like cakes that are hot.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:

So here's my question, is GW making a mistake by focusing on producing new 'toys' which most people will only buy one or two of for their army rather than updating and upgrading core troop choices?

They're focusing on the big toys, because all players, new and old will but them, whereas re-done figures will only be bought by new players. I have to say, I skipped the Chaos release just becasue the new big kits olook so terrible, and they haven't re-done any of the plastics. I may pick up a great spined beast from FW, and that's it.'s tough times, and I'm cutting back.

GW should really re-do entire ranges.

--Chris

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
For marines, plastic marines in historical armor would sell like cakes that are hot.

Feck yes. This. Gimme.

A few of the ranges could probably do with an update, simply because they are showing their age and don't look as good as a lot of other stuff available on the market for a cheaper price from other manufacturers- specifically the plastic IG range (Cadians and Catachans) and some of the Undead range (don't think anyone would argue with the need for new zombies etc.).

The marine range benefits from not having stuff made by companies other than GW, although you have to think they could probably do a more detailed sculpt if they were done again these days. Part of me that has seen the new FW stuff wants me them to do it, the other part of me that has seen some of the new chaos stuff doesn't want them to touch them! There is also the possibility that we will see 'My first Space Marine' (by Playmobil).

Also, GW not doing these ranges gives other companies a chance to build themselves up. Victoria's Miniatures, Pig Iron, Anvil Industries and Mantic have all managed to grow by selling miniatures that look better and are often cheaper than the standard GW plastics for instance. So, GW being a bit relaxed in this regard at least leads to a less monopolised market, and ultimately we as hobbyists benefit from that.

 Pacific wrote:
A few of the ranges could probably do with an update, simply because they are showing their age and don't look as good as a lot of other stuff available on the market for a cheaper price from other manufacturers- specifically the plastic IG range (Cadians and Catachans) and some of the Undead range (don't think anyone would argue with the need for new zombies etc.).

The marine range benefits from not having stuff made by companies other than GW, although you have to think they could probably do a more detailed sculpt if they were done again these days. Part of me that has seen the new FW stuff wants me them to do it, the other part of me that has seen some of the new chaos stuff doesn't want them to touch them! There is also the possibility that we will see 'My first Space Marine' (by Playmobil).

Also, GW not doing these ranges gives other companies a chance to build themselves up. Victoria's Miniatures, Pig Iron, Anvil Industries and Mantic have all managed to grow by selling miniatures that look better and are often cheaper than the standard GW plastics for instance. So, GW being a bit relaxed in this regard at least leads to a less monopolised market, and ultimately we as hobbyists benefit from that.

please no. leave the normal space marine range alone, it's perfect. tons of options, it's easy enough to convert stuff or mix and match kits if you want more detail. if they stuff tactical marines from head to toe im going to scream.

updating current plastics costs too much. i read somewhere each plastic mold costs 100s of thousands? youre pretty much stuck with zombies/chaos marines/IG range. GW shelling out for new plastic molds/machines is a last resort.

kb305 wrote:
updating current plastics costs too much. i read somewhere each plastic mold costs 100s of thousands? youre pretty much stuck with zombies/chaos marines/IG range. GW shelling out for new plastic molds/machines is a last resort.

This exact rumor has been doing the rounds since the 90s. I'm sure technology has advanced in the past 15 years.

armis wrote:

kb305 wrote:
updating current plastics costs too much. i read somewhere each plastic mold costs 100s of thousands? youre pretty much stuck with zombies/chaos marines/IG range. GW shelling out for new plastic molds/machines is a last resort.

This exact rumor has been doing the rounds since the 90s. I'm sure technology has advanced in the past 15 years.

Yeah, I don't think you'd see so many other companies starting plastics like they have if it cost that much. Not saying it isn't expensive, but I doubt it's over 100k anymore.

I watched a fairly recent Lego documentary and it said that a mould may cost 250,000 euros.

Of course it won't work like that anymore, but you get hte idea.

 jonolikespie wrote:

 MrScience wrote:

 jonolikespie wrote:
Yes, yes they do. All the new chaos stuff coming out looks totally different. The old guys are marines with spikes while the new stuff is mutated marines, they no longer fit the same theme.

So all vanilla ones should show mutations? I'd agree with them getting new models just from a detail standpoint. I thought the point of the vanilla ones was they were basepoint from which you could go onto customise them how you wish.

How would you change them?

Basically, I'd just make them look more like the new raptors only with less lightning bolts on the legs. As well they could use the same treatment other marines have gotten recently where there is every option you could want on the sprue as well as a crapload of extra heads and other stuff. What I like about the new stuff is that the armour is vaguely Mk 7 ish but clearly different, the old stuff is blatantly Mk 7 with spikes added.

I suppose I can agree with your reasoning there.

Then again I'm one of those guys who thinks SoB need resculpts more urgently. That is unless the Grey Knights haven't turned them all into mantlepieces,

 Xeriapt wrote:
The new chosen models look awesome, but it would have been nice if the basic marines you get looked more like those than just spiky loyalists.

Yeah, I love everything about the new chaos aesthetic and I'm really, really hoping the rumours of a redone CSM box next year turn out to be true.

I love the normal Chaos box. I don't see what's wrong with it.

what annoys me is the height, when i put normal CSM up against some of my newer space wolves, they are almost a full head taller.
I guess all the chaos guys were the cool bad boys that smoked in school and now have their growth stunted