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My Khorne CSM army with Demons allies has won 2 of 2 games thus far, totally owed to my Juggernaut Lord, and he allied Bloodthirster/Khorne Demon Prince (the fire support of ML Havocs and a Forgefiend helps a lot, too). Between seemingly broken FMC rules and the Lord's insane threat distance, they pretty much rush forward and kill stuff, survive a turn because of challenges, either issued or accepted, and then get to assault again my next turn. It seems to work well once you infiltrate an ADL with a big scary assault character - you can take a unit one at a time.

And yeah, I'm taking the Demons codex DP as he's a lot cheaper for what he does, and EW. Also, he's a heavy, meaning a scoring unit in 1/6 missions!

Kevlar wrote:
What is the point of the masque getting three shots with pavane exactly? She can't split fire right, so can only effect one target?

The Masque has We Are Legion so can fire at multiple units.

~Sp.

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:
250-350pts isn't nearly enough points for a decent Troop selection. Also so far in my experiences deploying the Bikes is better than outflanking them.

agree on both.

Just thinking Huron is kind of a steal, at 160 points you get a tough warlord, and, will at least get to infiltrate one infantry unit, possibly three.

I was thinking terminators are infantry, so why not infiltrate ten of them, and kit that squad appropriately (namely combi plas, and a mark, can't decide on a mark yet, it really is a toss up, since they are rather slow, probably kit them out out for survivability, like MoT or MoN or MoS + Icon to get FNP)

And actually, because those units gain the infiltrate rule, you could have a 5 man squad, infiltrating in a landraider instead. hopefully the land raider lives the first turn, and bang, second turn assault termies all in the thick of things.

And of course if you can infiltrate three units through a good die roll, now that initial "these guys will always be infiltrating" squad, will have some sweet support.

Dunno if someone already suggested this, but a Sorcerer with Sigil of of Corruption, MoT on a bike. 120 points for a T5, 3++ HQ, with plenty of room for mastrey levels and wargear-

 Limbo wrote:
Dunno if someone already suggested this, but a Sorcerer with Sigil of of Corruption, MoT on a bike. 120 points for a T5, 3++ HQ, with plenty of room for mastrey levels and wargear-

The only problem there is you'd have to run your bikers with MoT or unmarked and those are underwhelming options compared to nurgle or slaanesh.

If I was going with a Tzeench sorcerer I'd run him on a jetbike.

Kevlar wrote:

 Limbo wrote:
Dunno if someone already suggested this, but a Sorcerer with Sigil of of Corruption, MoT on a bike. 120 points for a T5, 3++ HQ, with plenty of room for mastrey levels and wargear-

The only problem there is you'd have to run your bikers with MoT or unmarked and those are underwhelming options compared to nurgle or slaanesh.

If I was going with a Tzeench sorcerer I'd run him on a jetbike.

MoT is dirt cheap on chaos spawn, and 6 of them is a pretty good escort.

but its pretty useless on them as well.

 Leth wrote:
but its pretty useless on them as well.

Yep, huge difference between a MON spawn and a MOT spawn getting hit with a demolisher cannon. MON you lose two wounds on one spawn. MOT you lose 6 wounds and two whole models.

 schadenfreude wrote:

Kevlar wrote:

 Limbo wrote:
Dunno if someone already suggested this, but a Sorcerer with Sigil of of Corruption, MoT on a bike. 120 points for a T5, 3++ HQ, with plenty of room for mastrey levels and wargear-

The only problem there is you'd have to run your bikers with MoT or unmarked and those are underwhelming options compared to nurgle or slaanesh.

If I was going with a Tzeench sorcerer I'd run him on a jetbike.

MoT is dirt cheap on chaos spawn, and 6 of them is a pretty good escort.

Spawns can only be taken in units of 5 or less.

The only problem there is you'd have to run your bikers with MoT or unmarked and those are underwhelming options compared to nurgle or slaanesh.

If I was going with a Tzeench sorcerer I'd run him on a jetbike.

Well, I'll run a Lord on bike and a Sorcerer in terminator armor going with Termies.
With the MoS, I'll take units of 6.

I've been giving thought to the following:

Chaos Lord - Mark of Nurgle, Chaos Bike, Pair of Lightning Claws, Melta Bombs, Sigil of Corruption - Total 162

Chaos Lord - Mark of Tzeentch, Terminator Armor, Sigil of Corruption, Pair of Lightning Claws - Total 172.

Having the lord on bike run with Nurgle Bikers, and have the Tzeentch Lord run with Termies...

Though I've been giving thought to the making the Tzeentch Lord a Sorcerer. I will see though...

The biggest question for the Tzeentch is, is the 40 points worth it for the 2+ save, because I can get him to have a 3++ but keep him in power armor...

Thoughts?

 schadenfreude wrote:

Kevlar wrote:

 Limbo wrote:
Dunno if someone already suggested this, but a Sorcerer with Sigil of of Corruption, MoT on a bike. 120 points for a T5, 3++ HQ, with plenty of room for mastrey levels and wargear-

The only problem there is you'd have to run your bikers with MoT or unmarked and those are underwhelming options compared to nurgle or slaanesh.

If I was going with a Tzeench sorcerer I'd run him on a jetbike.

MoT is dirt cheap on chaos spawn, and 6 of them is a pretty good escort.

Do spawn have a 5++? I thought they werent actually daemons so MoT only gives them a 6++

 Exergy wrote:

 schadenfreude wrote:

Kevlar wrote:

 Limbo wrote:
Dunno if someone already suggested this, but a Sorcerer with Sigil of of Corruption, MoT on a bike. 120 points for a T5, 3++ HQ, with plenty of room for mastrey levels and wargear-

The only problem there is you'd have to run your bikers with MoT or unmarked and those are underwhelming options compared to nurgle or slaanesh.

If I was going with a Tzeench sorcerer I'd run him on a jetbike.

MoT is dirt cheap on chaos spawn, and 6 of them is a pretty good escort.

Do spawn have a 5++? I thought they werent actually daemons so MoT only gives them a 6++

You are correct, though I don't see where anybody said otherwise.

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:

 Exergy wrote:

 schadenfreude wrote:

Kevlar wrote:

 Limbo wrote:
Dunno if someone already suggested this, but a Sorcerer with Sigil of of Corruption, MoT on a bike. 120 points for a T5, 3++ HQ, with plenty of room for mastrey levels and wargear-

The only problem there is you'd have to run your bikers with MoT or unmarked and those are underwhelming options compared to nurgle or slaanesh.

If I was going with a Tzeench sorcerer I'd run him on a jetbike.

MoT is dirt cheap on chaos spawn, and 6 of them is a pretty good escort.

Do spawn have a 5++? I thought they werent actually daemons so MoT only gives them a 6++

You are correct, though I don't see where anybody said otherwise.

I was just wondering why you would ever give them MoT in the first place

 Exergy wrote:

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:

 Exergy wrote:

 schadenfreude wrote:

Kevlar wrote:

 Limbo wrote:
Dunno if someone already suggested this, but a Sorcerer with Sigil of of Corruption, MoT on a bike. 120 points for a T5, 3++ HQ, with plenty of room for mastrey levels and wargear-

The only problem there is you'd have to run your bikers with MoT or unmarked and those are underwhelming options compared to nurgle or slaanesh.

If I was going with a Tzeench sorcerer I'd run him on a jetbike.

MoT is dirt cheap on chaos spawn, and 6 of them is a pretty good escort.

Do spawn have a 5++? I thought they werent actually daemons so MoT only gives them a 6++

You are correct, though I don't see where anybody said otherwise.

I was just wondering why you would ever give them MoT in the first place

Or right sorry, I thought you were correcting someone.

You are right, it seems silly to give MoT to anything that doesn't already have an invul. save.

I just picked up two juggernaught Chaos Lords on EBAY, and I'm curious as to your opinions on these beasts. I think they're actually a relatively economical purchase, and the Lord can join a bike or jumppack unit turn one to get into position for a turn two assault. Has anyone tried this? I don't know if it qualifies as cheese, but here is my expected loadout:

Chaos Lord - MoK, Juggernaught, Sigil of Corruption, Axe of Blind Fury - 175

I'm thinking about trying to run 2 in a 1750, giving the other one the Murder Sword instead of the Axe. and each with a small unit of bikes or raptors for ablative wounds turn 1 and 2 (as well as some melta support)

Thoughts?

Yup, JugLords are awesome sauce. Give one Blinding Fury and Sigil, and the other Burning Brand and Sigil, maybe a Power Axe.

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:

 Exergy wrote:

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:

 Exergy wrote:

 schadenfreude wrote:

Kevlar wrote:

 Limbo wrote:
Dunno if someone already suggested this, but a Sorcerer with Sigil of of Corruption, MoT on a bike. 120 points for a T5, 3++ HQ, with plenty of room for mastrey levels and wargear-

The only problem there is you'd have to run your bikers with MoT or unmarked and those are underwhelming options compared to nurgle or slaanesh.

If I was going with a Tzeench sorcerer I'd run him on a jetbike.

MoT is dirt cheap on chaos spawn, and 6 of them is a pretty good escort.

Do spawn have a 5++? I thought they werent actually daemons so MoT only gives them a 6++

You are correct, though I don't see where anybody said otherwise.

I was just wondering why you would ever give them MoT in the first place

Or right sorry, I thought you were correcting someone.

You are right, it seems silly to give MoT to anything that doesn't already have an invul. save.

The context of the original question was where to put a mot sorcerer or lord that is on a disc. Mon would stop the disc rider from joining the unit so the usual suggestion isn't useful in this case. Thinking about it more an unmarked unit is probably best.

Stolen from the YMDC question, as long as we're really looking for cheese:

C:CSM w/ C:CDaemons as allies

Allies:
Epidemius
5-9 man escort, depending on how safe you want him

C:CSM:

Typhus
Unit of 35 cultists, not zombies
Aegis Defence Line, Quad Gun

Units of MoN Bikers and Plague Marines for the remaining points--maybe fill in a few other units to close gaps, like Heldrakes or Flak Havocs

Turn 1:
Aim for a 3+ to get Epidemius in. No, you don't automatically get him and his unit in--on a 1 or 2 you get the empty set.

Have Typhus joined to the cultists. Move them up and charge the quad qun (which you should have placed 9-10" in front of your lines, which I believe is legal). Have cultists attack regularly (they can't hurt the gun), and have Typhus use his Large Blast to replace his CCAttacks. You should be able to hit nearly all or all of the cultists, because they consolidate in around Typhus and the gun. If you hit 30 of the cultists (hoping for 35), you'll kill 20 of them on average.

Turn 2:
The Tallyman counts up and you get all the benefits. Your entire army is ludicrously overpowered, with your opponent never getting armor saves, rerollable 2+ to wound in CC, and 3+ Feel No Pain's.

Common questions:
Epidemius does not specify enemy
You can charge your own fortifications; they are considered to be neither players model while unmanned.

If none of this is wrong I think it is VERY clearly the most overpowered thing in the codex.

With that said--it is undeniably cheese and unintended, although I think it's pretty fluffy.

This combo is not even remotely new, and to be honest not as filthy as it is given credit for, and the counters to it and fairly simple; kill Epidemius. Once he is gone then that's it for the whole strategy. There's also the case of him not getting the first wave and fluffing reserve rolls. It also hinges on getting the first turn, which is only a 50/50 shot. It also hinges on the opponent and/or TO agreeing that you can charge your own gun.

Wahay FAQ is up and erratas axe and zombies. Time to go fix my lists

hehe - zombies can be as many cultists as you like.
Hellbrutes are now 100points.

I don't think it changes much still; Helbrutes will still be outclassed, Terminators will still depend on list type, and Khorne Lords will still be better than Daemon Princes. The Zombies are the only ones that really gained from this one.

Agreed... they still didn't clarify the Abaddon thing one way or the other.

Chaos bikes: Meltas or plasma?

 Stoffer wrote:
Chaos bikes: Meltas or plasma?

Well, at the moment I tend to plasma guns, since we will see less tanks in the 6th while MCs are still alive and kicking. You can fire plasma and still charge in the same round, so no difference here.

Meltas, they aren't just for tanks, instant death is also a good use.

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:
Meltas, they aren't just for tanks, instant death is also a good use.

That's what I'm thinking too. The other thing is that due to challenges, I have very few power fists in my units and I kind of feel like I need a little bit of anti heavy vehicles.

 Meade wrote:
I'm really expecting the new dragons and dinobots to be cheese once people get to play with them and find the best combos. I think people are overlooking the daemonforge ability and those invul saves, IWND are great. Odds are that one of those things works right in the game.

The dragon flamer is a real killer. Pair it up with some deepstriking daemons with pavane, to get the whole squad in formation.. and maybe a bonus vehicle. Against other flyers it is more resilient than they are, but sadly getting off ~2 S8 shots isn't scary for other AV12 fliers. But being able to re-roll those pens, even once per game, can make a difference in a dogfight.

Seeing I hate both of the new models, I will not be using them. For me, VoTLW is awesome. Another is the reduction in cost for havocs... now if I could only purchase 8 autocannons instead of 50$ for forgecrap mix-and-match. 115 pts for 4 autocannons is pretty darn cheap. Combined that with 290 for 20 CSM with VoTLW and you can go to town.... 4 troops for 1160 add 3 havocs for 345 and we have a nice 95 marine base for an 1850 army.

You can generally get CSM Autocannons / Reaper Autocannons for £1-3 each from Bitz sellers.

Alternatively, you could do what I'm going to be doing, and using some Instamold and Greenstuff (or more likely I'll pick up some Milliput) with a paperclip core and make a few copies of certain hard-to-get bitz if I need to.
That said, there won't likely be more than 1-3 things I need to duplicate anyway....