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Is there something in the agreement with games workshop that says they can't sell forgeworld models independently? Or is it just too expensive for them to regularly stock? I mean it seems to me that this would make forgeworld models more accepted, thus more popular. Not to mention making something easier to buy almost always produces more sales. I personally would love very to buy more conversion kits or chapter specific bits but I really don't feel like going to the trouble to place an order than waiting a month or so for them to finally show up at my door. If they were readily available at my flgs than I would buy much more of the FW catalogue.

So what does everyone think? Is there a reason for this?

Its pretty much because they are specialist kits. Many people I mean, Impulse buy is what stores thrive on. so its difficult to have such expensive items instore.

Stores can carry them, my local store does, they just don't get any sellers discount. Most people seem perfectly happy to pay a bit more (which ends up to be roughly the cost of shipping so it doesn't make too much difference to the customer) to get stuff *now* (impulse shopping hurrah!) without having to wait for shipping.

Most don't carry it because they have to go through a different sales channel and price them differently and aren't going to make the 40% margin they do on plasti-crack.

Most of the Battle Bunkers used to sell FW resin crack, but then they stopped for unknown reasons.

Agreed, I never buy online. If they were in-stores it be brilliant. I was talking to a member of my local GW store and he said in a growling tone, "we don't deal with forgeworld." WTF do they have a grudge against each other?!?

Unlikely A grudge, and more a "Its difficult to work with, and they take up shelfspace"
Remember, Just because you want to buy it, doesnt mean everyone else does. Like my store, Spacemarines Sell, so more space to them, But Tau dont. So tau have a small place for them

Given that GW merchandise isn't all that much cheaper then much of FW's inventory, it would start making sense to sell them in stores. I mean nobody will buy the $1,000 Titans, but vehicles and Horus Heresy stuff especially would go.

They don't sell FW for the same reason they don't sell stuff like the special character models in stores: the expected sales volume is too low. It takes up shelf space, and then you have to spend money producing a bunch of extra copies to distribute to all the stores, and most of those extra copies are just going to go gather dust. Since this is 2012 and online shopping is even easier than shopping in stores (I have only ever bought stuff in a physical store as a "thank you" for having gaming space) it makes a lot more sense to just have an online store with a single warehouse.

 Peregrine wrote:
They don't sell FW for the same reason they don't sell stuff like the special character models in stores: the expected sales volume is too low.

This isn't true. I can name at least 1 Special Characters for every 40k army, both plastic and finecast, on shelves off the top of my head, from a local store

Marneus Calgar
Commander Dante
Sammael
High-Marshall Helbretch
The Emperor's Champion
Kaldor Draigo
Captain Stern
Logan Grimnar
Arjac Rockfist
Njal Stormcaller
Canis Wolfborn
Skulltaker
Abbaddon
Kharn the Betrayer (but only this last wek, probably because of new CSM)
Huron Blackhart
Lelith
Urien Rakarth
The Avatar
Eldrad Ulthuan
Creed+ Clour Sergeant Keller
Imotek the Stormlord
Vargard Obyrn
Obyrn's master (can't remeber name)
Anakyr(sp) the Traveller
Ghazkull
Commander Farsight
The Swarmlord

 Deadshot wrote:
This isn't true. I can name at least 1 Special Characters for every 40k army, both plastic and finecast, on shelves off the top of my head, from a local store

Sure, there are some (probably the most popular ones), but there are also models that you can only order through GW's online store or, at best, have to special order and wait a week for them to arrive so you might as well just order them through GW's online store.

It's an issue of volume, I think. They don't sell enough for it to make sense for them to invest in shipping Forge World kits out to the stores.

I think the largest issue is that their production capabilities are limited. To put even the most popular stock in GW stores would require them to exponentially expand their production facilities, and I guess they've decided that the return on that investment isn't worth it.

 Kaldor wrote:
I think the largest issue is that their production capabilities are limited. To put even the most popular stock in GW stores would require them to exponentially expand their production facilities, and I guess they've decided that the return on that investment isn't worth it.

But.. if they made it easier to acquire then they would sell more... There are a number of FW things I'd love to have. However, I'm not really keen on ordering from the UK. Primarily because the shipping / tax costs are outrageous. And yes, I know FW stuff is expensive anyway, but if I'm only ordering one item then tax/shipping could easily exceed the cost of that item. Brass etchings for example.

However, when I order from GW I can have it shipped to the store thereby completely bypassing any type of shipping fee. Let's me get more bang for my buck.

I have exactly one FW item: an IA book, and the only reason I have that is because it was for sale in a local GW. Today I stopped in to pick up some paint and ask if they were going to carry the HH book. He said they've been told it wasn't going to be made available in the stores but that they've said that before and changed their mind; so who knows.

clively wrote:
But.. if they made it easier to acquire then they would sell more... There are a number of FW things I'd love to have. However, I'm not really keen on ordering from the UK. Primarily because the shipping / tax costs are outrageous. And yes, I know FW stuff is expensive anyway, but if I'm only ordering one item then tax/shipping could easily exceed the cost of that item. Brass etchings for example.

I really don't see how the price of tax/shipping can exceed the cost of the item when tax and shipping are calculated as a percentage of the cost. In fact, that's more generous than GW where if you buy something small like a pot or two of paint your shipping cost can be more than the cost of the item*, since shipping seems to be a flat rate.

And shipping is expensive because international shipping is expensive. Buying in a store might mean that you don't pay shipping, but only because the cost of the item has increased to include the cost of getting it there.


*I just checked this. $3.70 for a pot of paint, $9 for shipping.

clively wrote:

 Kaldor wrote:
I think the largest issue is that their production capabilities are limited. To put even the most popular stock in GW stores would require them to exponentially expand their production facilities, and I guess they've decided that the return on that investment isn't worth it.

But.. if they made it easier to acquire then they would sell more...

Well, yes that's a given. But to provide a reasonable supply of stock to hundreds, maybe thousands of stores across the globe they'd need to increase their production capacity tenfold or more which would be very expensive, reduce the number of items currently on the shelf to make more room, and take a massive hit in production and shipping costs before they could recoup their money. I'm sure they've done their sums and decided they've got better uses for the money.

 Kaldor wrote:
I'm sure they've done their sums and decided they've got better uses for the money.

Kirby needs those dividends.

I remember reading at one point, that Forge World does not keep a very large inventory of their items. They tend to cast on demand to "keep their costs down" by not producing several models that may not sell well and then being stuck with the excess along with wasting the casting material.

If they were to start producing their entire line in the quantities needed to stock them in anything besides perhaps the Bunkers would seriously drive up their production costs. And you think FW stuff is expensive now, imagine what they would be then.


If I can happen to remeber where I read that I will source it.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Its pretty much because they are specialist kits. Many people I mean, Impulse buy is what stores thrive on. so its difficult to have such expensive items instore.

That's assuming that impulse buying is inhibited by niche items or price... I don't know about you, but when I go to my local gaming store it is a niche place. If this stuff was for sale at my FLGS I'd probably accidentally spend hundreds of dollars kitting my army with all the super sexy dreadnoughts and contemptors and titans and... well yea, I would impulse buy everything if it was in the stores, and I know I cannot be alone.

It is shelfspace. Not enough to field all Finecast, so certainly not enough to field all FW niche products.
And stores don't get seller discounts, so it is basically selling products of the competition without any profit.

 Darth Bob wrote:
Most of the Battle Bunkers used to sell FW resin crack, but then they stopped for unknown reasons.

Very well known, actually. Costs and inventory turnover. The charm of having most every resin kit on hand was out-weighed by having a lot of inventory that moved very slowly, especially really big things like super heavies. Things might be different in the current game, with a greater emphasis on big models, flyers, and the like, but it was different way back in ye old early to mid days of 5th edition.

They do stock them at Warhammer World, well most of the kits anyway.

Isengard wrote:
They do stock them at Warhammer World, well most of the kits anyway.

Indeed they do. I happened to be in Nottingham the other week and impulse bought left and right dread autocannons, just because I could. I then asked for sculpted assault squad pauldrons and was told I had to order them. I didn't. Some things never change.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Unlikely A grudge, and more a "Its difficult to work with, and they take up shelfspace"
Remember, Just because you want to buy it, doesnt mean everyone else does. Like my store, Spacemarines Sell, so more space to them, But Tau dont. So tau have a small place for them

But Forge world does sell a lot of things many people want; Vendetta upgrades, special weapons, hydra flak tank, medusas etc(essentially codex units that do not have an official GW model)

PresidentOfAsia wrote:
But Forge world does sell a lot of things many people want; Vendetta upgrades, special weapons, hydra flak tank, medusas etc(essentially codex units that do not have an official GW model)

Sure, but in smaller numbers. How long will that Hydra kit sit on the shelf before someone buys it, and how many more of them will you have to produce and send to every store? And how many sales will you lose by not giving that shelf space to, say, a basic Rhino kit that every marine player wants to buy? Or a Leman Russ kit that builds multiple options instead of the single-option Medusa? And then which of FW's niche market kits do you put on your shelf? Of course if you had infinite shelf space and budget for new inventory then you'd sell FW, but in the real world the opportunity cost is too high.

And don't forget that GW's business model is heavily based on getting impulse buys from kids, players who do the research and figure out that a Hydra is the perfect choice for their tournament list are a minority of GW's customers, especially when you look at the retail stores. The vast majority of people who would every buy a FW kit have figured out that buying in a GW retail store is stupid, so it's much better to use that shelf space on products newbies will buy.

 Peregrine wrote:
And don't forget that GW's business model is heavily based on getting impulse buys from kids, players who do the research and figure out that a Hydra is the perfect choice for their tournament list are a minority of GW's customers, especially when you look at the retail stores. The vast majority of people who would every buy a FW kit have figured out that buying in a GW retail store is stupid, so it's much better to use that shelf space on products newbies will buy.

Not to mention resin isn't as easy to work with as plastic with conversion kits. It's very common to get warped peices that any parent would tell their kid to return - something a more experienced modeller would know you imply dunk in hot water for a while and bend into shape. It's also common for conversion peices to not fit properly due to resin shrinking further than intended in the mold, requiring a lot of green stuff and plasticard work to get to fit.

There's headaches there most store managers would probably want to avoid if his customer base isn't mostly older, more experiences gamers.

Resin is Plastic / Plastic is Resin.

But that aside, it's primarily due to production capability.
It's a relatively small team and most of it's done by hand - it's also why big kits like the Manta can take so long.