Cultist or Spawn?

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**TasadarTheMadBear**

Which do you prefer, Cultist or Spawn? I personally use them to fill in a few spare points and to add some wounds to my usually out numbered CSM. But which are more effective? Both are very different, but I find I end up using them for a lot of the same reasons. I'll provide my army list here just so people know what I'm working with, but this is not a list post, I'm asking specifically about Cultist and Spawn. Their pro, cons, and how they compare.

HQ-
Khorne Lord w/ Jump Pack, Axe of Blind Fury, Aura, and Gift -150
Huron Blackheart -160
Troops-
10 Marines w/ 2 Plasma Guns, Plasma Pistol, Power Sword, Gift, and MoN -248
10 Marines w/ 2 Plasma Guns, Plasma Pistol, Power Sword, Gift, and MoN -248
Elites-
6 Chosen w/ 3 Meltaguns, Pair of LC, 2 Power Weapons, Gift, MoS, and Icon of Excess -255
Fast Attack-
8 Raptors w/ Pair of LC, Gift, 2 Meltaguns, MoK, and Icon of Wrath -237
Heavy Support-
3 Obliterators w/ MoN -228
7 Havocs w/ 4 Missile Launchers, 4 Flakk Missiles, MoN, and Icon of Vengeance -247
Fortification-
Aegis Defence Line w/ Quad Gun -100
Total -1873pts

That leaves me with 127pts left to work with. Assuming my opponent is ok with me being a point over the 2k limit (and most at my local shop are) I can squeeze in either 29 Cultist with a Shotgun on the Champion, or 4 Spawn with the Mark of Khorne. The Spawn would give me 12 wounds at T5 with anywhere between 4-24 S5 attacks while the Cultist give me 29 T3 wounds and 59 S3 attacks plus 29 S3 autopistol shots. The Spawn are Beast so they're faster and definitely better in combat, but the Cultist do have more than twice the wounds and attacks. Should I go with the Cultist and their massive number of bodies or the much tougher and stronger Spawn? The Cultist are also Troops so they're a scoring unit.

**Tomb King**

I think you were looking for army list forum instead of tactics forum.

Suggestions: Take a few less cultist and make them mark of nurgle.

**wuestenfux**

Well, at the 1850 pt level, it is better to have at least three scoring units. Therefore, I'd opt for Cultists here.

**Crimson-King2120**

Cultists are scoring without them in an objective game all the opponent has to do is wipe out the 2 CM squads and your boned

Automatically Appended Next Post:
also give your cultists a mark khorne is great for an extra attack nurgle will make them much more difficult to move or you could make room for typhus and turn them into zombies Even the mark of slaanesh means you will strike at odds with marines

**wuestenfux**

Well, I'd stay away from a mark for the Cultists. They should be kept as cheap as possible, sticked into cover if possible.
If the unit is large enough, the enemy may think twice before charging them.

**Exergy**

TasadarTheMadBear wrote:
Which do you prefer, Cultist or Spawn? I personally use them to fill in a few spare points and to add some wounds to my usually out numbered CSM. But which are more effective? Both are very different, but I find I end up using them for a lot of the same reasons. I'll provide my army list here just so people know what I'm working with, but this is not a list post, I'm asking specifically about Cultist and Spawn. Their pro, cons, and how they compare.

HQ-
Khorne Lord w/ Jump Pack, Axe of Blind Fury, Aura, and Gift -150
Huron Blackheart -160
Troops-
10 Marines w/ 2 Plasma Guns, Plasma Pistol, Power Sword, Gift, and MoN -248
10 Marines w/ 2 Plasma Guns, Plasma Pistol, Power Sword, Gift, and MoN -248
Elites-
6 Chosen w/ 3 Meltaguns, Pair of LC, 2 Power Weapons, Gift, MoS, and Icon of Excess -255
Fast Attack-
8 Raptors w/ Pair of LC, Gift, 2 Meltaguns, MoK, and Icon of Wrath -237
Heavy Support-
3 Obliterators w/ MoN -228
7 Havocs w/ 4 Missile Launchers, 4 Flakk Missiles, MoN, and Icon of Vengeance -247
Fortification-
Aegis Defence Line w/ Quad Gun -100
Total -1873pts

That leaves me with 127pts left to work with. Assuming my opponent is ok with me being a point over the 2k limit (and most at my local shop are) I can squeeze in either 29 Cultist with a Shotgun on the Champion, or 4 Spawn with the Mark of Khorne. The Spawn would give me 12 wounds at T5 with anywhere between 4-24 S5 attacks while the Cultist give me 29 T3 wounds and 59 S3 attacks plus 29 S3 autopistol shots. The Spawn are Beast so they're faster and definitely better in combat, but the Cultist do have more than twice the wounds and attacks. Should I go with the Cultist and their massive number of bodies or the much tougher and stronger Spawn? The Cultist are also Troops so they're a scoring unit.

Flakk missiels are really expensive, I wouldnt take them, autocannons all the way
MoN is also questionable on them, though Ill allow it.
Icon of vengence is really getting to be too much.
That unit is 247 points!
you could have 2X 5 Havocs with 4 autocannons for 230 points. 16 shots at BS1 is the same as 4 shots at BS4 against fliers but they are better against everything else. More bodies is more survivable and because there are two units you can split fire.

Your chosen are also overcosted. dual lightning claws end up costing more than a mutilator.

You need more troops, so cultists. spawn may be awesome but you need troops

**labmouse42**

Bare bones cultists. Maybe give em a flamer if you have spare points to burn.

This is because in a game where 5/6 of the games are objective based to some degree or another, having a cheap objective camper is a useful tool.

**Exergy**

labmouse42 wrote:
Bare bones cultists. Maybe give em a flamer if you have spare points to burn.

This is because in a game where 5/6 of the games are objective based to some degree or another, having a cheap objective camper is a useful tool.

for 127 points you can have 2 bare bone cultists units

**juraigamer**

Cultists are cheap obs takers and possible ranged support, spawn of fast melee monsters. What does your list need?

**TasadarTheMadBear**

I think I need the objective holders because, as many pointed out, all my opponent has to do is kill 20 marines and I can no longer claim or contest objectives.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Exergy wrote:

Flakk missiels are really expensive, I wouldnt take them, autocannons all the way
MoN is also questionable on them, though Ill allow it.
Icon of vengence is really getting to be too much.
That unit is 247 points!
you could have 2X 5 Havocs with 4 autocannons for 230 points. 16 shots at BS1 is the same as 4 shots at BS4 against fliers but they are better against everything else. More bodies is more survivable and because there are two units you can split fire.

Your chosen are also overcosted. dual lightning claws end up costing more than a mutilator.

You need more troops, so cultists. spawn may be awesome but you need troops

Are Autocannons the better choice? If i did this they wouldn't be fearless or be T5, but 16 shots is good. I mainly put the Missile Launchers in there because I dont have much anti-air

**Crimson-King2120**

autocannons pump out enough shots to be effective against flyers as for the cultists if you want an objective holder 20-30 cultists with autoguns heavy stubbers and a Dark apostle to make sure they stay putor same unit but with 3 flamers and perhaps a lord for objective taking

**TasadarTheMadBear**

I reworked the list, are 10 Cultist a waste of points? I only plan on using them to hold an easy objective, but nearly anything can take them out.

HQ-
Khorne Lord w/ Jump Pack, Axe of Blind Fury, Aura, and Gift -150
Huron Blackheart -160
Troops-
10 Marines w/ 2 Plasma Guns, Plasma Pistol, Power Sword, and MoN -248
10 Marines w/ 2 Plasma Guns, Plasma Pistol, Power Sword, and MoN -248
10 Cultist -50pts
Elites-
5 Terminators w/Reaper Autocannon, 3 Combi-Meltas, Chainfist, Powerfist, Icon of Vengeance, and MoK -269pts
Fast Attack-
8 Raptors w/ Pair of LC, Gift, 2 Meltaguns, MoK, and Icon of Wrath -237
Heavy Support-
3 Obliterators w/ MoN -228
5 Havocs w/ 4 Autocannons, Icon of Vengeance, and MoN -155pts
5 Havocs w/ 4 Autocannons, Icon of Vengeance, and MoN -155pts
Fortification-
Aegis Defence Line w/ Quad Gun -100
Total -2000pts

**Exergy**

TasadarTheMadBear wrote:

Exergy wrote:

Flakk missiels are really expensive, I wouldnt take them, autocannons all the way
MoN is also questionable on them, though Ill allow it.
Icon of vengence is really getting to be too much.
That unit is 247 points!
you could have 2X 5 Havocs with 4 autocannons for 230 points. 16 shots at BS1 is the same as 4 shots at BS4 against fliers but they are better against everything else. More bodies is more survivable and because there are two units you can split fire.

Your chosen are also overcosted. dual lightning claws end up costing more than a mutilator.

You need more troops, so cultists. spawn may be awesome but you need troops

Are Autocannons the better choice? If i did this they wouldn't be fearless or be T5, but 16 shots is good. I mainly put the Missile Launchers in there because I dont have much anti-air

they wouldnt be fearless, but honestly if they get into combat they are likely to be dead anyway. at ld9 they should pass most morale tests, and if not at least you have 2 units of them instead of 1
they wont have T5 but they will have more wounds. Also with their 48" range they will probably be far away. what is likely going to be hitting them is other high strength things where toughness wont help you.

missiles are ok, at kraking higher av tanks, ID T4, AP3. They just get expensive if you put the flakk missiles on them and then they are only str7. autocannons put out twice as many shots for less, and in the example i gave you 4 times the shots for what you were paying. They will open rhinos like a hot knife through butter.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

TasadarTheMadBear wrote:
I reworked the list, are 10 Cultist a waste of points? I only plan on using them to hold an easy objective, but nearly anything can take them out.

HQ-
Khorne Lord w/ Jump Pack, Axe of Blind Fury, Aura, and Gift -150
Huron Blackheart -160
Troops-
10 Marines w/ 2 Plasma Guns, Plasma Pistol, Power Sword, and MoN -248
10 Marines w/ 2 Plasma Guns, Plasma Pistol, Power Sword, and MoN -248
10 Cultist -50pts
Elites-
5 Terminators w/Reaper Autocannon, 3 Combi-Meltas, Chainfist, Powerfist, Icon of Vengeance, and MoK -269pts
Fast Attack-
8 Raptors w/ Pair of LC, Gift, 2 Meltaguns, MoK, and Icon of Wrath -237
Heavy Support-
3 Obliterators w/ MoN -228
5 Havocs w/ 4 Autocannons, Icon of Vengeance, and MoN -155pts
5 Havocs w/ 4 Autocannons, Icon of Vengeance, and MoN -155pts
Fortification-
Aegis Defence Line w/ Quad Gun -100
Total -2000pts

I would shave some more points and add yet another mob of cultists. Perhaps try and get 20+ for huron to run with and keep the current 10 on the quad gun.

**Godless-Mimicry**

wuestenfux wrote:
Well, I'd stay away from a mark for the Cultists. They should be kept as cheap as possible, sticked into cover if possible.
If the unit is large enough, the enemy may think twice before charging them.

This. Don't waste your time with Marks for your Cultist. Without a specific set-up, giving them Rage or extra Toughness doesn't matter as they aren't meant to kill much, and they if the enemy focusses on them enough they'll die anyway. Just hide them for objectives or use them as a dirt cheap distraction.

**TasadarTheMadBear**

So my Havocs would still do well if they lost the MoN and the Icon of Vengeance? If I drop them from both squads I would have an extra 80pts. Now should I give my Cultist Autoguns or just keep the CC weapons and pistols? If I stayed with CC weapons I can add 20 Cultist to my current squad or have another squad of 17. If I go with Autoguns I can add 14 to my current squad. Are the Heavy Stubber and Heavy Flamer options worth losing 1.5 Cultist?

**Tomb King**

TasadarTheMadBear wrote:
So my Havocs would still do well if they lost the MoN and the Icon of Vengeance? If I drop them from both squads I would have an extra 80pts. Now should I give my Cultist Autoguns or just keep the CC weapons and pistols? If I stayed with CC weapons I can add 20 Cultist to my current squad or have another squad of 17. If I go with Autoguns I can add 14 to my current squad. Are the Heavy Stubber and Heavy Flamer options worth losing 1.5 Cultist?

Heavy stubber is only BS 3 S4 heavy 3. Not really desirable.
They dont get a heavy flamer only a regular flamer. I took 2 on a cultist squad in the last tournament and never used them. If you close enough to use them your unlikely to have cultist for long.

**TasadarTheMadBear**

Ya, realized it was just a Flamer. But the Heavy Stubber is effective against things the Cultist would be shooting at anyways, like Guards, Gaunts, and other hordes. Especially if the rest have Autoguns.