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jhe90 wrote: Space marines are ultra elite special operations troops, able to function in almost any environment including void operations.
There expensive but there not line troops like guards but ultra mobile self sufficient units able to furful a huge range of tasks.
Yes legion scale makes far more sense, but there not ment for foot operations or attrition but fast strikes, difficult or insanely dangerous missions.
Guarfdsman have limitations, but the marines are far more capable.
No, Guardsmen don't have limitations, this is what people don't understand. Anything a Space Marine can do, there is a regiment or unit that can do it better than they can. Void combat can be done by any of the specialist Imperial Navy units.
IMO they're like Vanguard Veterans; Good, but too expensive to make them worth it, and everything they do is already fulfilled by another unit who can do it better than they can and for less.
Guardsmen are very limited. You can say there's a regiment for everything all you like but shockingly this one regiment can't cover the Imperium and there aren't enough regiments like them to do it either. A Space Marine Chapter is better because not only are they better they can deal with all the situations equally well. Catachans are only good in a jungle. Space Marines can be good in and out of it.
tremere47-fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate, leads to triple riptide spam
The Imperium is one huge war machine. Space Marine, alone, are completly useless, guardsmen alone are useless, Sisters of Battle alone are useless. Here is my vision of the imperium military. The body armor is the PDF (planetery defense force) they are always the first one to see the fight and most of them are pretty similar in equipment to guardsmen. There job is to take punch and hold the line until the renforcement arrives. Space Marines are the sword: quick, precise, powerful, adaptable and complex to use properly. They start to attck the ennemy in the chink of his armor and help protect vital things like a specific hill, a fort, etc. The guards are the hammer, they are like PDF but usually better trained and more experimented. They are slow to deploy but easy to use. They destroy the ennemy who's already hold down by the PDF and on crippled because of the Space Marines. The Sisters are shield, they usually are always on site when the fighting start and they provide an extra defensive capacity to stop the ennemy where he is the strongest, push them back and strike when he expose a weakness. The Scions are the knife. They strike where even the sword can hardly reach to cripple the hability of the ennemy to attack or defend itself. The inquisition are the eyes and the brain. They reveal the ennemy plots and strategy, find its weakness and show to all others what to do to win. The navy are the legs, they carry and support everybody. Finally the titan legions are the canons, when all else fail, big guns will help you win. That's what makes the Imperium a superpower. They have a very advance system of defense and attack.
jhe90 wrote: Space marines are ultra elite special operations troops, able to function in almost any environment including void operations.
There expensive but there not line troops like guards but ultra mobile self sufficient units able to furful a huge range of tasks.
Yes legion scale makes far more sense, but there not ment for foot operations or attrition but fast strikes, difficult or insanely dangerous missions.
Guarfdsman have limitations, but the marines are far more capable.
No, Guardsmen don't have limitations, this is what people don't understand. Anything a Space Marine can do, there is a regiment or unit that can do it better than they can. Void combat can be done by any of the specialist Imperial Navy units.
IMO they're like Vanguard Veterans; Good, but too expensive to make them worth it, and everything they do is already fulfilled by another unit who can do it better than they can and for less.
Remind me the last time the Imperial Guard fought off onslaughts of Chaos Daemons or could contain plagues that spread memetically. Guardsmen are only useful for the average enemies- Chaos Cultists, Orks, Rebellions, and Tau. Guardsmen are absolutely worthless against Eldar, Daemons, Necrons, Chaos Space Marines, and Tyranids- you're just throwing meat and equipment into the grinder and you're not going to get it back.
“There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance.”
jhe90 wrote: Space marines are ultra elite special operations troops, able to function in almost any environment including void operations.
There expensive but there not line troops like guards but ultra mobile self sufficient units able to furful a huge range of tasks.
Yes legion scale makes far more sense, but there not ment for foot operations or attrition but fast strikes, difficult or insanely dangerous missions.
Guarfdsman have limitations, but the marines are far more capable.
No, Guardsmen don't have limitations, this is what people don't understand. Anything a Space Marine can do, there is a regiment or unit that can do it better than they can. Void combat can be done by any of the specialist Imperial Navy units.
IMO they're like Vanguard Veterans; Good, but too expensive to make them worth it, and everything they do is already fulfilled by another unit who can do it better than they can and for less.
Can an IG captain kill an ork warboss? Can IG fight the indescribable horrors of the warp and combat daemons? That's cute. That is really cute.
I love IG don't get me wrong but they would be a complete train wreck without the Adeptus Astartes, I promise. There are things IG can't do without marines and things marines can't do without the guard. Guardsmen can absolutely obliterate enemies with attrition. They can hold ground far better than marines can. They can do a range of other stuff but than comes the problems of much more complicated scenarios.
Like The Battle of Kvariam Alpha. IG were completely unable to engage the Tau under water with any military affect so they called in the SW's. The SW's dropped Land Raiders full of terminators deep down into the sea bed and properly went to combat with the encoaching Tau. It was a despserate fight but the wolves emerged victorious. Had SM's not existed, that battle would have been unwinnable.
To be fair though, isn't the resources one a moot point?
The Imperium doesn't have much expenditure, and pretty much slave labour, their GDP must be large enough to support Space Marines!
I don't think cost is an issue, so why the feth not eh?
We are arming Syrian rebels who support ISIS, who is fighting Iran, who is fighting Iraq who we also support against ISIS, while fighting Kurds who we support while they are fighting Syrian rebels.
The Emperor's original intention, in His fight against the Chaos Powers, was to create firstly, the Primarchs, and then a whole race of super-humans who would be immune to the influence of Chaos. This plan did not succeed as the foetal Primarchs were scattered through time and space by the Chaos Gods. The Primarchs could not be replicated and in any case the imminent birth of Slaanesh forced the Emperor's hand. Using left-over genetic material from the Primarchs discreet biological organs could be created that would give an ordinary human some of the abilities of the Primarchs and so the Space Marines were created.
Keep in mind that at this time the Imperium consisted only of the Sol System and the Emperor created a force of super-humans that could crush and/or liberate worlds quickly and efficiently when numberless hordes of ordinary human soldiers were not available. The Emperor made Space Marines to enhance the limited human supply He controlled to do what was necessary at that time but they were always only a necessity which the Emperor never deliberately set out to create.
However, the Space Marines self-generate the organs required to make more Space Marines and ignoring whatever artificial requirements are put upon potential aspirants any human male who is compatible can become a Space Marine; arguably this makes Space Marines more resource friendly than human soldiers.
Chapters are also able to maintain and create their own arms and armour which again, adds a level of autonomy regular human armies cannot match. Whether the argument is that this is an artificial arrangement (ten thousand years of pacts and honour debts, the hoarding of knowledge by the Mechanicus, relative techno-phobia of most humans, the dictates and limitations imposed upon the Imperium's fighting bodies by Guilliman et cetera) is largely irrelevant, that is the way the Imperium functions and within that system a Chapter has the means to create more Marines and more equipment. Many Chapters are designated Adeptus, meaning they control their own world plus the natural resources it contains which they need to make their armaments and even for fleet based Chapters it seems fairly likely that they are able to take whatever raw materials they require from whatever source they choose.
In essence the Imperium spends almost zero resources on Space Marines, it is only at times of direst need that a Founding is decreed by the High Lords and that the Imperium spends resources creating Space Marines in order to combat very specific threats, presumably ones that regular human armies cannot defeat or at least not quickly enough. After that the Chapters take care of themselves and survive with little help or interference from the Imperium beyond whatever oaths the Chapter is sworn to uphold. Pacts made with the Mechanicus, as an allied empire to the Imperium in its own right, are really a separate issue as the Imperium or more specifically the Administratum, as it is this body which allocates resources to create and maintain the Imperium's standing armies, has no direct control over the Mechanicus.
So, 'why do Space Marines even exist?', because, basically. Space Marines make more Space Marines, they can and do perform battlefield operations that ordinary human troops couldn't or would struggle to achieve. They have a reputation that, even if you think it is over-hyped, actually works to cow their enemies. They give prestige and kudos to any Imperial Commander that can procure their assistance, and, again, their reputation enhances morale even if, objectively, you might want to argue that it is more of a placebo effect than a real one.
Be Pure!
Be Vigilant!
BEHAVE!
Show me your god and I'll send you a warhead because my god's bigger than your god.
The Legions are a relic of a galaxy totally hostile to human life. The Emperor engineered them as shock troopers to fight in places and against foes where the Imperial Army couldn't hope to triumph but had no desire to use the fleet to scour the world.
If it were up to me, worlds like Murder would have been virus bombed, along with every world in the Ullanor subsector.
No, Guardsmen don't have limitations, this is what people don't understand. Anything a Space Marine can do, there is a regiment or unit that can do it better than they can. Void combat can be done by any of the specialist Imperial Navy units.
IMO they're like Vanguard Veterans; Good, but too expensive to make them worth it, and everything they do is already fulfilled by another unit who can do it better than they can and for less.
In short, there are over a million Imperial Guardsmen at any given time per Space Marine. This does not factor in PDF, Navy, Arbites, or Ecclesiastical forces, and my numbers are intentionally conservative.
So, I would amend your statement, BrotherOfBone, to "anything a Space Marine can do, there is an army of Guardsmen that can do it too."
Do you need to drop behind enemy lines to secure vital points? Drop troops (Elysians and Harkoni spring to mind). Need to take a fortress? Siege units will do it (Krieg, most notably, but any unit will work if supported by sufficient artillery and shovelwork). Bad things on a jungle planet? Ice planet? Desert planet? Guardsmen from all of those, and more, stand ready. Hell, need to take out bad things on a planet with an atmosphere toxic to humans? Wait, did that on Armageddon by giving soldiers protective gear. Hell, Stormtroopers by themselves could replace a lot of what Space Marines do, though they would need a lot more of them.
Don't get me wrong, Space Marines are all sorts of cool, and fluffy, and an integral part of the 40k universe. However, the only reason the Imperium of Man needs Space Marines is because Sci-Fi Writers Have No Sense Of Scale. Oh, and because of grim darkness and all that.
edit: Because I had this idea when I was sitting on the Porcelain Throne, consider the Imperial propag-I MEAN thing we've all heard about a Space Marine being the equivalent of a thousand men.
Ok.
So, if there are 1,000,000 (one million) Space Marines, and each is as strong as 1,000 (one thousand) men, that means that all the Space Marines have the equivalent strength of 1,000,000,000 (one billion) men. Formidable, sure, but....my numbers show that the Imperium of Man inducts over a 156 billion men each year. So, every year the Imperium of Man is in existence, they create the military strength of 156 times all of the Imperium's Space Marines. They'll do it next year, too, and the year after that, and the year after that.....
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/07/20 18:16:53
"I went into a hobby-shop to play m'self a game,
The 'ouse Guru 'e up an' sez "The Guard is weak and lame!"
The Chaos gits around the shelves they laughed and snickered in my face,
I outs into the street again an' grabbed my figure-case."
Oh it's "Angels this" an' "Space-wolves that", and "Guardsmen, go away!";
But it's "Thank you for the ordnance" when the Guard begins to play,
O it's "LOOK AT ALL THE ORDNANCE!" when the Guard begins to play.."
-Cadian XXIX (edited for length)
No, Guardsmen don't have limitations, this is what people don't understand. Anything a Space Marine can do, there is a regiment or unit that can do it better than they can. Void combat can be done by any of the specialist Imperial Navy units.
IMO they're like Vanguard Veterans; Good, but too expensive to make them worth it, and everything they do is already fulfilled by another unit who can do it better than they can and for less.
In short, there are over a million Imperial Guardsmen at any given time per Space Marine. This does not factor in PDF, Navy, Arbites, or Ecclesiastical forces, and my numbers are intentionally conservative.
So, I would amend your statement, BrotherOfBone, to "anything a Space Marine can do, there is an army of Guardsmen that can do it too."
Do you need to drop behind enemy lines to secure vital points? Drop troops (Elysians and Harkoni spring to mind). Need to take a fortress? Siege units will do it (Krieg, most notably, but any unit will work if supported by sufficient artillery and shovelwork). Bad things on a jungle planet? Ice planet? Desert planet? Guardsmen from all of those, and more, stand ready. Hell, need to take out bad things on a planet with an atmosphere toxic to humans? Wait, did that on Armageddon by giving soldiers protective gear. Hell, Stormtroopers by themselves could replace a lot of what Space Marines do, though they would need a lot more of them.
Don't get me wrong, Space Marines are all sorts of cool, and fluffy, and an integral part of the 40k universe. However, the only reason the Imperium of Man needs Space Marines is because Sci-Fi Writers Have No Sense Of Scale. Oh, and because of grim darkness and all that.
edit: Because I had this idea when I was sitting on the Porcelain Throne, consider the Imperial propag-I MEAN thing we've all heard about a Space Marine being the equivalent of a thousand men.
Ok.
So, if there are 1,000,000 (one million) Space Marines, and each is as strong as 1,000 (one thousand) men, that means that all the Space Marines have the equivalent strength of 1,000,000,000 (one billion) men. Formidable, sure, but....my numbers show that the Imperium of Man inducts over a 156 billion men each year. So, every year the Imperium of Man is in existence, they create the military strength of 156 times all of the Imperium's Space Marines. They'll do it next year, too, and the year after that, and the year after that.....
Even so, Marines can do what any of the Guard can do faster, better and with less damage to infrastructure and considerably less manpower.
... and if the IN gets blown out of the sky above a world, all those IG already on the ground get to die there, because they have no means of inter-stellar travel.
Space Marines do. That's what I mean by "rapid response force". When a Chapter "gets the call", it has all the resources it needs, on hand, to respond to the threat. It has the troops, the armor, the weapons, the support personnel, the tanks... everything needed to wage war, and wage war *now* is on hand with a Space Marine Chapter.
Not so with the IG. Rare is it that a bunch of Regiments capable of performing an offensive action across a broad range of fronts (infantry, armor, artillery, etc) are sitting in one place with ready Naval transports immediately on hand. It can take the DM *months*, if not years, to get all the pieces in place to initiate the effort.
It is best to be a pessimist. You are usually right and, when you're wrong, you're pleasantly surprised.
The burning pits of Hades, also known as Sweden in summer
Not to mention the hilarious administrative errors we see in certain publications. In the last codex, remember that IG regiment that was declared traitors long after they actually had been wiped out?
Sillycybin wrote: Power armor is its own utility. In any other sci-fi universe the benefits of power armor alone is apparent.
If anyone here read the Siege of vraks and consider how many troopers died to heavy stubber/bolter fire then consider the subsequent armour penetration value of said weapons, a tac sqaud would have been able to spearhead a push across no mans in vraks and the guard would have taken alot less losses.
So could Grenadiers or Stormtroopers, without having to invest the resources Space Marines require.
Anyone trying to mathhammer spacemarine to guardsmen number stats is wasting their time. First of all it's likely there are more then a million spacemarines in 40k probably a couple million, and if were going to use math, just remember there are GW stats of imperial super tanks have 20mm of armor. GW can't into appropriate numbers.
GW being utterly incompetent when it comes to math and knowledge of military affairs is a position I've had for more than a decade now. I recall in one of the Chapter Approved books the Land Raider was given as having the equivalent of 495mm of conventional steel armor....which means that a T-80 has thicker armor. I also recall a passage in one of the Imperial Guard codicies that had some IG general boasting about his billy-badass Imperial Guard battlegroup of like half a million men. Yawn. Red Army did it better.
But, GW's military and math incompetence is precisely the point in why Space Marines are an insignificant part of the Imperium's defenses. Again, for every Space Marine, there are as many Imperial Guardsmen as there are soldiers in the active-duty US Army. By the simple expedient of opening up more Scholas and training more Stormtroopers, you can replace most jobs Space Marines do (I say "most jobs" because I can't think of a job that Space Marines can do better than a division or so of Stormies, but I'll allow for the possibility).
Now, you say that, "First of all it's likely there are more then a million spacemarines in 40k probably a couple million"
Citation needed.
I have only ever heard the "thousand chapters of a thousand Marines" number. 1,000 chapters of 1,000 Marines is a million marines. But, have it your way.
If there are 2.5 million Space Marines? That brings it to almost 500,000 Imperial Guardsmen per Space Marine.
5 million? About 250,000 Guardsmen per Space Marine.
Again, those numbers do not include PDF, Arbites, Navy, Inquisitorial, or Ecclesiastical forces.
The Imperium of Man is so vast that it can provide more than sufficient manpower to defend itself, without having to rely on power-armored freaks. Furthermore, since, to my knowledge, Imperial authorities have to petition Space Marine chapters for their aid (which means they can refuse), it would be more responsive if the resources used for Space Marines was instead used on raising Stormtrooper divisions.
Space Marines are cool, but unnecessary for the defense of the Imperium.
edit: Also, the point about the Imperial Navy being suddenly wiped out is utterly ludicrous. Like the Imperial Guard, the Imperial Navy is so large that it can continue to fight after monstrous losses. Adaptes Astartes fleet assets, though, are considerably more rare. Furthermore, countless Imperial shipyards can still replenish Imperial Navy ship losses; where do Space Marines get their ships from?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/07/23 13:48:23
"I went into a hobby-shop to play m'self a game,
The 'ouse Guru 'e up an' sez "The Guard is weak and lame!"
The Chaos gits around the shelves they laughed and snickered in my face,
I outs into the street again an' grabbed my figure-case."
Oh it's "Angels this" an' "Space-wolves that", and "Guardsmen, go away!";
But it's "Thank you for the ordnance" when the Guard begins to play,
O it's "LOOK AT ALL THE ORDNANCE!" when the Guard begins to play.."
-Cadian XXIX (edited for length)
No, Guardsmen don't have limitations, this is what people don't understand. Anything a Space Marine can do, there is a regiment or unit[i] that can do it better than they can.
Anything [u]a Space Marine can do a regiment or unit can do better. Well there's your answer
Can a regiment or unit clear out the remainders of a chaos invasion, by themselves, nope. It would take a few more than that.
A squad of marines was backed up by guard that were rotated in shifts, 3 days later the marines were still at the front. Guard were worn out and wanted to go to bed. Marine's keep fighting.
Well if we took it all the way back to 2nd. Where there's really a huge difference between power armour>flak. Bolt >las .
Games were smaller, without massed batteries of anything really, Same reason dread's are stuffed really.
But to answer the op.
When marines were created. There just wasn't enough humans to pull the ol throw bodies at it till it's dead trick.
Which they seem to be getting away from now, and doing the human's are great trope.
So they needed daft punkers. Harder, better, faster, stronger
That was not the point I was making. The point I was making is that people are saying that Space Marines can work in x environment, or do this, or do that, when in actuality they're not special in their ability to do what a trained Gard unit can also do, for a lot less hassle and resources (getting marines to do what you want is a ballache).
Never said there wasn't a huge difference to their equipment. even in 7th Edition this is apparent. Manpower>Power Armour. Manpower>Bolt;.
Yes, but they're not needed now. Why not just scrap the marines alltogether? They're a useless and less superior throwback to a now-unnecessary project.
It's like fielding Sherman Tanks in the US army now because some of them still work. They're still not as good as the modern-day equivalent.
That was not the point I was making. The point I was making is that people are saying that Space Marines can work in x environment, or do this, or do that, when in actuality they're not special in their ability to do what a trained Gard unit can also do, for a lot less hassle and resources (getting marines to do what you want is a ballache).
Never said there wasn't a huge difference to their equipment. even in 7th Edition this is apparent. Manpower>Power Armour. Manpower>Bolt;.
Yes, but they're not needed now. Why not just scrap the marines alltogether? They're a useless and less superior throwback to a now-unnecessary project.
It's like fielding Sherman Tanks in the US army now because some of them still work. They're still not as good as the modern-day equivalent.
Which regiment can effectively fight Orks in close combat or equal the Eldar Aspect Warriors or survive in the vacuum of space at all in their standard wargear?
tremere47-fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate, leads to triple riptide spam
That was not the point I was making. The point I was making is that people are saying that Space Marines can work in x environment, or do this, or do that, when in actuality they're not special in their ability to do what a trained Gard unit can also do, for a lot less hassle and resources (getting marines to do what you want is a ballache).
Never said there wasn't a huge difference to their equipment. even in 7th Edition this is apparent. Manpower>Power Armour. Manpower>Bolt;.
Yes, but they're not needed now. Why not just scrap the marines alltogether? They're a useless and less superior throwback to a now-unnecessary project.
It's like fielding Sherman Tanks in the US army now because some of them still work. They're still not as good as the modern-day equivalent.
Which regiment can effectively fight Orks in close combat or equal the Eldar Aspect Warriors or survive in the vacuum of space at all in their standard wargear?
At no point did I say 'in standard wargear'. Also, look at Catachans, then look at Elysians, then look at Death Korps, Mordians, Valhallans, Steel Legion, Cadian Hazardous Environment Troops and Cadians and then tell me what Standard Wargear is. There are Guard Regiments that can fight Orks in close combat, or equal the Eldar Aspect Warriors, or survive the vacuum of space. Also, Marines don't best Orks in combat, just doesn't happen, not a 'standard' marine anyway.
That was not the point I was making. The point I was making is that people are saying that Space Marines can work in x environment, or do this, or do that, when in actuality they're not special in their ability to do what a trained Gard unit can also do, for a lot less hassle and resources (getting marines to do what you want is a ballache).
Never said there wasn't a huge difference to their equipment. even in 7th Edition this is apparent. Manpower>Power Armour. Manpower>Bolt;.
Yes, but they're not needed now. Why not just scrap the marines alltogether? They're a useless and less superior throwback to a now-unnecessary project.
It's like fielding Sherman Tanks in the US army now because some of them still work. They're still not as good as the modern-day equivalent.
Which regiment can effectively fight Orks in close combat or equal the Eldar Aspect Warriors or survive in the vacuum of space at all in their standard wargear?
At no point did I say 'in standard wargear'. Also, look at Catachans, then look at Elysians, then look at Death Korps, Mordians, Valhallans, Steel Legion, Cadian Hazardous Environment Troops and Cadians and then tell me what Standard Wargear is. There are Guard Regiments that can fight Orks in close combat, or equal the Eldar Aspect Warriors, or survive the vacuum of space. Also, Marines don't best Orks in combat, just doesn't happen, not a 'standard' marine anyway.
None of this post makes any logical sense. Like, I am so much dumber reading this. IG beat orks and equal aspect warriors? Marines cant best orks in combat?
My friend, SM's can definitely slaughter stupid orks in combat. You need to read Rynns World.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/07/25 17:30:41
That was not the point I was making. The point I was making is that people are saying that Space Marines can work in x environment, or do this, or do that, when in actuality they're not special in their ability to do what a trained Gard unit can also do, for a lot less hassle and resources (getting marines to do what you want is a ballache).
Never said there wasn't a huge difference to their equipment. even in 7th Edition this is apparent. Manpower>Power Armour. Manpower>Bolt;.
Yes, but they're not needed now. Why not just scrap the marines alltogether? They're a useless and less superior throwback to a now-unnecessary project.
It's like fielding Sherman Tanks in the US army now because some of them still work. They're still not as good as the modern-day equivalent.
Which regiment can effectively fight Orks in close combat or equal the Eldar Aspect Warriors or survive in the vacuum of space at all in their standard wargear?
At no point did I say 'in standard wargear'. Also, look at Catachans, then look at Elysians, then look at Death Korps, Mordians, Valhallans, Steel Legion, Cadian Hazardous Environment Troops and Cadians and then tell me what Standard Wargear is. There are Guard Regiments that can fight Orks in close combat, or equal the Eldar Aspect Warriors, or survive the vacuum of space. Also, Marines don't best Orks in combat, just doesn't happen, not a 'standard' marine anyway.
None of this post makes any logical sense. Like, I am so much dumber reading this. IG beat orks and equal aspect warriors? Marines cant best orks in combat?
My friend, SM's can definitely slaughter stupid orks in combat. You need to read Rynns World.
pm713 wrote: Guardsmen are very limited. You can say there's a regiment for everything all you like but shockingly this one regiment can't cover the Imperium and there aren't enough regiments like them to do it either. A Space Marine Chapter is better because not only are they better they can deal with all the situations equally well. Catachans are only good in a jungle. Space Marines can be good in and out of it.
Catachans are not only good in jungle terrain, they excell in dense terrain. Cadians are ok wherever you put them. Most regiments are good at different things but can do just about anything. For example a valhallan really comes into his own in the cold but can do jst about anything an infantryman can. That and you forget the fact that in a given area the are scores more guardsmen than marines, your lucky if there is one company in the area. Also arent chapters specialized like regiments? There are millions more regiments tgan chapters making the imperial guard much more conventional.
Automatically Appended Next Post: The sheer amount of men in the guard renders marines irrelevant, there are only 1000 chapters which means at any given time there is roughly 1,000,000 marines available in thiom. The guard put that many men down on a planetary invasion in one week.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/07/25 17:40:53
That was not the point I was making. The point I was making is that people are saying that Space Marines can work in x environment, or do this, or do that, when in actuality they're not special in their ability to do what a trained Gard unit can also do, for a lot less hassle and resources (getting marines to do what you want is a ballache).
Never said there wasn't a huge difference to their equipment. even in 7th Edition this is apparent. Manpower>Power Armour. Manpower>Bolt;.
Yes, but they're not needed now. Why not just scrap the marines alltogether? They're a useless and less superior throwback to a now-unnecessary project.
It's like fielding Sherman Tanks in the US army now because some of them still work. They're still not as good as the modern-day equivalent.
Which regiment can effectively fight Orks in close combat or equal the Eldar Aspect Warriors or survive in the vacuum of space at all in their standard wargear?
At no point did I say 'in standard wargear'. Also, look at Catachans, then look at Elysians, then look at Death Korps, Mordians, Valhallans, Steel Legion, Cadian Hazardous Environment Troops and Cadians and then tell me what Standard Wargear is. There are Guard Regiments that can fight Orks in close combat, or equal the Eldar Aspect Warriors, or survive the vacuum of space. Also, Marines don't best Orks in combat, just doesn't happen, not a 'standard' marine anyway.
None of this post makes any logical sense. Like, I am so much dumber reading this. IG beat orks and equal aspect warriors? Marines cant best orks in combat?
My friend, SM's can definitely slaughter stupid orks in combat. You need to read Rynns World.