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 Manchu wrote:

 AustonT wrote:
What you meant to say was how are they different.

No, I am asking you why you think a woman in a comic book character costume at a comic book convention is like a loud, obnoxious racist in a minority neighborhood.

You can jump from honey and bears to rape but you can't connect the dots here?

 Ahtman wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:

 kronk wrote:
I'd prefer being trapped in an elevator with a loud racist more than a groping gamer.

You're missing the fun. Put them both in the same elevator. Watch the hijinks ensue.

If he was in an elevator with a racist he would be the groping gamer.

Only if he was dressed as Wonder Woman.

 Manchu wrote:
LoH, whether something bad does or does not happen does nothing to justify it.

Actions can have obvious outcomes. This should have been expected. Anyone who doesn't expect it is either completely out of touch with reality, or a complete moron.

EDIT: Then again, I'm paranoid with no faith in human decency

 Manchu wrote:

 DutchKillsRambo wrote:
Are you really gonna stand here and say SOME men arent basically animals?

That's not at issue. Your claim is that women should expect bad treatment because some people might treat them badly. The correct answer is that people who treat women badly are the problem, not the women who are treated badly.

And yes that is my claim. There are bad people out there in the world. This is not new. She's in her 20's. She knows this. She's looking for attention on a non issue. Up next at 11, strippers are being objectified around America!

 Ahtman wrote:
Eventually anything and everything will happen everywhere and anywhere. It is a big universe and a long time line. "It will happen eventually" isn't a very good defense for gakky behavior.

Thats either very deep, or stolen from Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. Or both.

It wasn't the pedophiles fault those school kids wore their darling uniforms. He had to run over and tell them how pretty they were.

 AustonT wrote:

 Manchu wrote:

 AustonT wrote:
What you meant to say was how are they different.

No, I am asking you why you think a woman in a comic book character costume at a comic book convention is like a loud, obnoxious racist in a minority neighborhood.

You can jump from honey and bears to rape but you can't connect the dots here?

So I can take it you don't have a good reason as to why comparing a person dressed as a comic book character to a person shouting racial epithets is justified and apt?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Cannerus_The_Unbearable wrote:
It wasn't the pedophiles fault those school kids wore their darling uniforms. He had to run over and tell them how pretty they were.

It would have happened eventually, after all.

 Cannerus_The_Unbearable wrote:

 DutchKillsRambo wrote:

 Cannerus_The_Unbearable wrote:
Desperate men are pathetic and gross. So if a dude walks in with some fake muscles and a gay dude runs up and starts asking his dick size or talking how he wants to blow him, that's okay too right? None of you would be bothered by it? Sexism is great :/

Edit: I think we're old enough to be past the sentiment of "well, she looks like a slut so it's okay to treat her like gak!"

Its not sexism its numbers. Theres just not as many gay guys as straight at these cons. You all act like rude comments never get said to anyone. And from my experiences with the gay community a lot of them are that forward. Thats how some guys think they can score a mate.

And again, nobody is saying its ok to treat someone like gak. But it happens. Either deal or dont go outside.

Hmm, gay stereotyping too. What a nihilistic world you live in.

Its stereotyping to say "In my experiences"? How exactly? Oh right its not. Your really gonna say that a lot of guys gay or straight aren't extremely forward when hitting on potential mates?

 Cannerus_The_Unbearable wrote:
It wasn't the pedophiles fault those school kids wore their darling uniforms. He had to run over and tell them how pretty they were.

Exalted!

Would anyone here honestly walk up to either a booth babe or a con attendee wearing a skimpy outfit and ask her for her cup size? Honestly?

 Cannerus_The_Unbearable wrote:
It wasn't the pedophiles fault those school kids wore their darling uniforms. He had to run over and tell them how pretty they were.

Not even remotely related. Were talking about adults here. And also I dont believe its a crime for a paedo to tell a child their uniform was cute.

DutchKillsRambo wrote:

 Cannerus_The_Unbearable wrote:
It wasn't the pedophiles fault those school kids wore their darling uniforms. He had to run over and tell them how pretty they were.

Not even remotely related. Were talking about adults here. And also I dont believe its a crime for a paedo to tell a child their uniform was cute.

It is if that offender is in the system and violating a distance restriction.

 Ahtman wrote:

 AustonT wrote:

 Manchu wrote:

 AustonT wrote:
What you meant to say was how are they different.

No, I am asking you why you think a woman in a comic book character costume at a comic book convention is like a loud, obnoxious racist in a minority neighborhood.

You can jump from honey and bears to rape but you can't connect the dots here?

So I can take it you don't have a good reason as to why comparing a person dressed as a comic book character to a person shouting racial epithets is justified and apt?

Obvious outcomes are obvious. The example is both justified and apt. You and Machu can't defend a racist on the streets, you should save your indignation for someone who puts themself in an obvious position and cries foul.

Its also no really applicable as a comparison. No one expects an adult to want to rape their kid (though as Monty Python taught me long ago, expect the unexpected), but a woman dressed in a sexy outfit in a highly populated area with a lot of men, should expect that some of them are probably gonna be douche bags. Hell, men are probably douche bags to her when she is in everyday clothes from time to time. Hell x2, people will be douche bags for no clear reason at all.

 kronk wrote:

 Cannerus_The_Unbearable wrote:
It wasn't the pedophiles fault those school kids wore their darling uniforms. He had to run over and tell them how pretty they were.

Exalted!

Would anyone here honestly walk up to either a booth babe or a con attendee wearing a skimpy outfit and ask her for her cup size? Honestly?

Nope.
1. I'm not a boor.
2. I don't like being slapped.
3. I don't like it when the missus runs over me in the van. In fact I sort of hate that.

 AustonT wrote:
You can jump from honey and bears to rape but you can't connect the dots here?

Strangely, it makes sense to me that people talking about this situation with images of penetration and violence might have something non-coincidental to do with ideas about rape. But I am having a really hard time figuring out how someone who is doing something appropriate to where they are is like the exact opposite of that.

 LordofHats wrote:
a woman dressed in a sexy outfit in a highly populated area with a lot of men, should expect that some of them are probably gonna be douche bags.

Does this mean she should be ok with the treatment, and just not open her mouth and talk about it or write about it? It would seem, by the reaction given here, that she should just accept it and not bother anyone with her story. I, obliviously, disagree with the sentiment that she is being silly for talking about the incident. I think she was right to talk about it; it is how we minimize such occurrences instead of excusing them.

Let's be clear: I never said anything about breaking laws or sexual acts, only social responsibility. A pedophile approaching a child and saying something inappropriate is a valid comparison of a nerd approaching a scantily clad woman and saying something inappropriate in terms of the latter. Other examples include:

-Someone walking up to a homeless man and calling him "Smelly McPieceO'Crap"
-Someone telling an old person to just die already
-Someone asking someone else's wife if she'd like to screw in front of her husband
-Someone telling a random stranger they're going to hell unless they jump through a set of hoops

All of these are valid in terms of "someone say something inappropriate to someone else" and will and do eventually happen. It doesn't mean it should though.

 Ahtman wrote:
Does this mean she should be ok with and just not open her mouth and talk about it or write about it? It would seem, by the reaction given here, that she should just accept it and not bother anyone. I, obliviously, disagree with that sentiment. I think she was right to talk about it. It is how we minimize such occurrences instead of excusing them.

My problem is mostly that I find this to be a complete non-story.

Morning News: Men treat sexily dressed woman poorly.

Me: They've been running this story for the past 50 years. I don't know what's wrong with the news today.

She's not some special butterfly in a special world where nothing bad ever happens. This is the real world. Dress like Felicia Hardy and someone will be an ahole. Accept it and move on. Telling the whole world about won't change anything because I'd bet millions this won't be the last time someone is a dick to her at a comic convention.

 LordofHats wrote:
Actions can have obvious outcomes.

A motto we should all live by, to be sure. Meanwhile, what bearing does this have on whether the interviewer is justified to be rude to the cosplayer?

 DutchKillsRambo wrote:
Up next at 11, strippers are being objectified around America!

I don't think a cosplayer at a comic convention is anything like a stripper. But you're showing your true colors there!

 AustonT wrote:
Obvious outcomes are obvious.

This isn't a moral argument. Also, your comparison is still poor. It seems to me you're saying that the woman went to the con in order to be sexually harassed.

 Ahtman wrote:

 LordofHats wrote:
a woman dressed in a sexy outfit in a highly populated area with a lot of men, should expect that some of them are probably gonna be douche bags.

Does this mean she should be ok with and just not open her mouth and talk about it or write about it? It would seem, by the reaction given here, that she should just accept it and not bother anyone. I, obliviously, disagree with that sentiment. I think she was right to talk about it. It is how we minimize such occurrences instead of excusing them.

By all means expressing displeasure with dickbags is quite alright. Where I and I think a few other people are having trouble believing is that she was 1) actually surprised and 2) not just trying to garner media attention now. From looking at her blog, it appears that she's not even really a comic fan, but rather a struggling fashion designer. Which leads me back to the faux outrage to get media hits on her website.

Harassing women = bad.
Media stunts also = bad

Sum it up nicely?

 LordofHats wrote:
Morning News: Men treat sexily dressed woman poorly.

How about this one?

Morning News: Men Still Insisting Women Make Them Boors

 Manchu wrote:
A motto we should all live by, to be sure.

So we agree then? Okay.

Let me go toss that red herring back into the water for yah. Lots of room in Who's Talking About Justification Pond.

 DutchKillsRambo wrote:
Harassing women = bad.
Media stunts also = bad

Sum it up nicely?

Well, sure it sums up your position. But when we add it all up it comes out to: "women deserved and got bad treatment."

I'm late to this party, so I'll just jump in with two quick observations:

1. Post #3 was the first instance of outright victim blaming. That has to be some sort of record, Dakka.

2. My S/O and I go to a lot of cons in costume. And from experience, I can say that the only even remotely lecherous or impolite people are exclusively members of the indie press, and even then it is maybe 1 in 3 from that group. I'm really disappointed at how that article has painted the entire con-going crowd out to be a horde of ravenous cannibals on the prowl for supple boob-flesh, as I've found 99% of people to be extremely polite and respectful about taking photos.

 LordofHats wrote:
So we agree then? Okay.

Yes, we agree that sometimes things happen and then other things happen and they may correlate. Now, how do we get from that to "she deserved it"?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 azazel the cat wrote:
I'm really disappointed at how that article has painted the entire con-going crowd out to be a horde of ravenous cannibals on the prowl for supple boob-flesh

The woman herself has emphasized that this is NOT the case, as far as her experience goes. But it's just a media stunt, you know.

 Manchu wrote:

 AustonT wrote:
You can jump from honey and bears to rape but you can't connect the dots here?

Strangely, it makes sense to me that people talking about this situation with images of penetration and violence might have something non-coincidental to do with ideas about rape. But I am having a really hard time figuring out how someone who is doing something appropriate to where they are is like the exact opposite of that.

bwah ahha haha haha haha


To be clear: I'm laughing because I think you told a joke.

 Manchu wrote:

 DutchKillsRambo wrote:
Harassing women = bad.
Media stunts also = bad

Sum it up nicely?

Well, sure it sums up your position. But when we add it all up it comes out to: "women deserved and got bad treatment."

Except thats not my position. I've said dozens of times harassing women is not ok. But I still think she did this all on purpose. What attractive 23 year old girl living in NYC is unaware there are filthy people in the world? Honestly.

I liked the first couple of pages where there were pictures of hot chicks in costumes.

 DutchKillsRambo wrote:
I've said dozens of times harassing women is not ok. But I still think she did this all on purpose.

So you think she went to the NYCC that day with the specific intention of being sexually harassed?

 Manchu wrote:

 AustonT wrote:
Obvious outcomes are obvious.

This isn't a moral argument. Also, your comparison is still poor. It seems to me you're saying that the woman went to the con in order to be sexually harassed.

She went to that con to be objectified, she got treated like an object. Cue end credits.