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I was seriously looking over the prices for a beginner just getting into the game and could not believe the prices GW has set for their intro boxed sets.. or even their models for that matter!

Even companies like Privateer Press and Reaper have given in to the price hikes...

With the world economy as it is, we are facing a shortage of "disposable" income... at least I am!

If I were a parent and my kid came to me asking for $$ to get in to Gaming and I knew nothing about it, I'd need some hefty encouragement to fork out the cash... any others feel this way?

Will there be limitations for pricing or at least a guideline?

Is there a future for paper and metal gaming or will it eventually go to digital (Xbox/PC/PS3, etc)?

I'm concerned to say the least! The average kid just getting started has to fork out some serious "lunch money" just to get in to the hobby!

Actually wargaming (even with gw prices) is one of the cheapest hobbies. Most game stores have painting tables which are free to use and even more expensive kits are at the console game price range. If you are even slightly smart you can significantly reduce the cost of minis.

The real question is how are people able afford game consoles? Those things burn money like crazy.

 illuknisaa wrote:
Actually wargaming (even with gw prices) is one of the cheapest hobbies. Most game stores have painting tables which are free to use and even more expensive kits are at the console game price range. If you are even slightly smart you can significantly reduce the cost of minis.

The real question is how are people able afford game consoles? Those things burn money like crazy.

hes got a point, a 300-600$ system, plus 100$ in two controllers, plus 10 games from 40-60$ average at 50$ - 500$. totaling at average of 1000$. Can easily hop into warhammer for 1/3rd that.

Play affordable games. Seriously, it's the 21st Century, with the internet and everything, there's no excuse to take a "Games Workshop IS gaming" mantra.

As far as a hobby or hole for your disposable income goes wargaming isn't too bad a deal. You've got similar startup costs in every hobby. I think what I get sore about is price hiking year after year....it's as if the manufacturers think their wares qualify as cost of living increases.

I think parents need to be educated about what their kids are spending their time (and the parents' money) on. If I knew nothing about tabletop wargames and my kid said they wanted a $40 box of plastic army men, I probably wouldn't go for it. However, if I were to understand that this was a hobby, and that my sone or daughter would be expending creative energy in building and painting those same little army men, then I'd porbably be a lot more willing to invest the money.

Having said that, I got into tabletop wargaming as an adult where I was single and gainfully employed, and with today's prices, I would find it much more challenging to afford the things I already have built and painted if I were to start into the hobby right now.

Oh my gosh! All the companies that do it better have raised their prices, too? Its like prices connected ro some economic structure somehow!

/sarcasm

Wargaming has never been cheap. I can remember when the bookshelf series of Avalon Hill were ridiculously expensive, and they were paper maps and cardboard chits.

Play Infinity. Your costs immediately cut by 2/3, and that includes buying the terrain for it.

While individual items are expensive, if you look at it from cost per hour it looks much, much better

Going to the cinema for 1.5 hours = £7-10

A book (about 4 hours for me) = £8

A night out 8 hours = £50-80

A new Xbox 360/PS3 game (6 hr +, depends on how good it is) = £40

If you paint your own units, wargaming is cheaper per hour, even if you don't if you and your friends game a lot it can still work out pretty cheap

(although the intitial outlay can be higher, as has been said above you could easily factor in a console/PC when costing your gaming)

 cormadepanda wrote:

 illuknisaa wrote:
Actually wargaming (even with gw prices) is one of the cheapest hobbies. Most game stores have painting tables which are free to use and even more expensive kits are at the console game price range. If you are even slightly smart you can significantly reduce the cost of minis.

The real question is how are people able afford game consoles? Those things burn money like crazy.

hes got a point, a 300-600$ system, plus 100$ in two controllers, plus 10 games from 40-60$ average at 50$ - 500$. totaling at average of 1000$. Can easily hop into warhammer for 1/3rd that.

Not sure where you pulled those numbers out of, but current reality is far different. And consoles have always come with at least one controller, so there's a Straw Man element there as well.

Videogames are a lot cheaper. US$250-300 gets you an XBox 360 or PS3 with one or two controllers and a game or two - good games, too - not shovelware crap. Buying games that aren't new releases - like year-old titles - but still top-tier AAA games cost $20-30. And while it's nice, no-one needs 10 games as a buy-in. 2-4 is actually heaps, especially if you choose a couple of games with lots of replayability like a Grand Theft Auto/Saints Row, Call of Duty/Battlefield or any sports games.

I (unfortunately) tell my students to steer clear of things like Warhammer, as fun as they are for me, as it's simply too much of a monetary investment for their parents, and we know how 90% of the teenagers who go into Warhammer end up. I turn them to self-contained miniature boardgames like the D&D ones (Ravenloft, etc) or the World of Warcraft miniatures game (since prepainted singles are cheap as chips on eBay). This is with Australian prices in mind, but it's pretty much as applicable elsewhere as well.

 MightyGodzilla wrote:
As far as a hobby or hole for your disposable income goes wargaming isn't too bad a deal. You've got similar startup costs in every hobby. I think what I get sore about is price hiking year after year....it's as if the manufacturers think their wares qualify as cost of living increases.

I only know of one manufacturers that price hike every year or that raise price more then cost of living.

If you want affordable mass-battle games, play Kings of War and Warpath from Mantic. The rules are free, the miniatures are extremely affordable.

If you want affordable skirmish games, there is an absolute *ton* of stuff out there... I agree that Privateer Press is still too rich for my tastes, but there's a lot of other good ones out there.

Basically "anyone other than GW" is the way to go if you want to avoid selling off your organs. GW are primarily a company for kids with rich parents.

Paying £45 for the rules, then £30 for the army book.. and then minis, paints etc. etc. from GW is an absolutely horrible proposition for any newbie GW player.

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:

Wargaming has never been cheap. I can remember when the bookshelf series of Avalon Hill were ridiculously expensive, and they were paper maps and cardboard chits.

True, but it was somewhat cheaper than it is now. At least, there were cheaper options; GW themselves offered cheaper alternatives with a raft of board games, skirmish games, and the core games themselves needed less models and so were cheaper, even disregarding that those models per-unit have risen in price above inflation.
I mention GW, as in the UK at least this is most likely the first games that players will come across. Relatively, it is much more expensive. I understand though that the US and rest of the EU has a lot more general wargaming stores, allowing newcomers to compare the different games side by side.

Some of the other games have become more expensive as well, I often hear PP mentioned although I don't play the game myself and so can't comment.

Having said that, there is more competition in the marketplace than there was even ten years ago, and that combined with the internet (discount internet shopping/imports/ebay) have made cheaper purchases possible for the conscientious purchaser. Certainly, I think there is a lot more easy access to the entirety of the marketplace than there ever was when I was a kid - which usually consisted of going into the local FLGS every month or so just to look at what was on the shelves, and talking to other kids about it. That was it really!

To the OP though there are a mass of games, most of which you will find gaming communities for, that are relatively cheap to get into and play. To name a few: Dropzone commander, Dystopian Wars/Firestorm Armada, Freebooter's Fate, Infinity, Kings of War, Malifaux, Saga etc, all of which you can play with fair change from £100. Even the GW Specialist Games which, although about as well supported as a leper in a wind tunnel, are still quite cheap especially if you shop around and get non-official minis.

Games Workshop games have become a lot more expensive relatively, but it's not something that holds true throughout the entire industry.

So far GW has priced me out of their market, add in the 6th and I tapped out.

PP has been much cheaper for an army that is customizabele and all the options have merit. I think I have spent maybe $300 on the rulesbook and a good 50 pts plus of Khador

There are also much cheaper options out there besides PP.

I don't think the hobby is out-pricing paychecks, just GW.

Riquende wrote:
Play affordable games. Seriously, it's the 21st Century, with the internet and everything, there's no excuse to take a "Games Workshop IS gaming" mantra.

This. GW suck at making their game accessible to new players, but they aren't the only company out there. You might have trouble finding opponents for Infinity or other smaller games, but Warmachine/Hordes are a lot cheaper to start and widely played.

 scarletsquig wrote:
GW are primarily a company for kids with rich parents.

Hardly. GW desperately needs to fix the cost of getting started, but they do have a lot of advantages for older players.

On the whole with respect to monetary cost, i dont think its cost prohibitive. For me, i dont think Gw is cost prohibitive either although i can see it may be for younger people with less income.
If i compare it to how much i would spend on a night out or a decent meal in a decent restaurant it works out much cheaper on a pounds to hours of enjoyment ratio, it does not however keep the mrs as happy as a night out or a meal would and i often end up paying the cost in other ways !

Pick the right company, particularly in the skirmish gaming world and it is very affordable. Malifaux, infintiy, wolsung, relic knights all are very rewarding fun cheap systems to play in. The real problem of start up costs only come with GW tbh PP is more expensive than the skirmish systems I listed but GE really takes the biscuit. So yes gaming is affordable if you buy into a well supported skirmish system and avoid the improper touching of wallets provided by the GW experience. I would recommend all new gamers to start in either infinity or malifaux. Aslo there apparently very affordable smaller scale games though I'm not familiar with these,

I desperatly want to get into Airsoft, But the guns, the pellots, the gas to go to a place i can play, the fees and all that stuff would run me into....500$. that is my entire paycheck.
Warhammer, While expensive, I can get into it in smaller bites.

Or you can get into infintiy for $50 why worry about GW

UNCLEBADTOUCH wrote:
Or you can get into infintiy for $50 why worry about GW

Because you want a larger-scale game? Because you like the fluff? Because you like the art style? Because you want to have tanks/aircraft/etc in your game? Because your friends all play 40k and you want to join them? There are plenty of reasons why someone would want to play GW games even though Infinity is cheaper.

 Peregrine wrote:

UNCLEBADTOUCH wrote:
Or you can get into infintiy for $50 why worry about GW

Because you want a larger-scale game? Because you like the fluff? Because you like the art style? Because you want to have tanks/aircraft/etc in your game? Because your friends all play 40k and you want to join them? There are plenty of reasons why someone would want to play GW games even though Infinity is cheaper.

I mad stat comment as the genteleman concerned was comparing it to the $509 cost of airsoft as a all encompassing experience, you can play a full game of Infinity for $50.

If indeed you loved the imagery fluff etc and wanted to join a 40k only scene I can't see you getting change from $500 in fact the rules alone for a GW game system will cost you more than getting started in infinity. Ina thread about cost prohibition that is a very valuable point to make even though I know the GW white knights will hate me for pointing this out.

UNCLEBADTOUCH wrote:
I mad stat comment as the genteleman concerned was comparing it to the $509 cost of airsoft as a all encompassing experience, you can play a full game of Infinity for $50.

Not actually true. $50 will get you a starter, which is fine for smaller games. You do need terrain, lots of it. This is why I mentioned costs over GW dropping by 2/3 - you'll still need to spend money on materials to make a lot of terrain or ~$150 to buy premade terrain for Infinity.

UNCLEBADTOUCH wrote:
I know the GW white knights will hate me for pointing this out.

You are not saying anything new or insightful.
Thanks for pre-emptively dismissing anyone that disagrees with you, we wouldn't want anyone to forget that we're on the internet.

 plastictrees wrote:

UNCLEBADTOUCH wrote:
I know the GW white knights will hate me for pointing this out.

You are not saying anything new or insightful.
Thanks for pre-emptively dismissing anyone that disagrees with you, we wouldn't want anyone to forget that we're on the internet.

There was nothing dismissive in that post. Merely an acceptance of the sort of responses my post would engender. Guess you lived up to my assumption, congrats your a GW white knight!

 scipio.au wrote:

 cormadepanda wrote:

 illuknisaa wrote:
Actually wargaming (even with gw prices) is one of the cheapest hobbies. Most game stores have painting tables which are free to use and even more expensive kits are at the console game price range. If you are even slightly smart you can significantly reduce the cost of minis.

The real question is how are people able afford game consoles? Those things burn money like crazy.

hes got a point, a 300-600$ system, plus 100$ in two controllers, plus 10 games from 40-60$ average at 50$ - 500$. totaling at average of 1000$. Can easily hop into warhammer for 1/3rd that.

Not sure where you pulled those numbers out of, but current reality is far different. And consoles have always come with at least one controller, so there's a Straw Man element there as well.

Videogames are a lot cheaper. US$250-300 gets you an XBox 360 or PS3 with one or two controllers and a game or two - good games, too - not shovelware crap. Buying games that aren't new releases - like year-old titles - but still top-tier AAA games cost $20-30. And while it's nice, no-one needs 10 games as a buy-in. 2-4 is actually heaps, especially if you choose a couple of games with lots of replayability like a Grand Theft Auto/Saints Row, Call of Duty/Battlefield or any sports games.

I (unfortunately) tell my students to steer clear of things like Warhammer, as fun as they are for me, as it's simply too much of a monetary investment for their parents, and we know how 90% of the teenagers who go into Warhammer end up. I turn them to self-contained miniature boardgames like the D&D ones (Ravenloft, etc) or the World of Warcraft miniatures game (since prepainted singles are cheap as chips on eBay). This is with Australian prices in mind, but it's pretty much as applicable elsewhere as well.

I can see what your saying there sir but let look at this in the long run. So a game system (even used) is about the price of a decent size starter army. However here's one thing your not taking into factor and that's relevance. In a matter of 6-7 years the game system (assuming the first one you bought survived) will be determined as "out of date" and games will stop being produced for it. So you will have to spend more money on the new system (estimated cost for next gen is 300-500$) not to mention the fact that you will buy at least 3 new games every year on avrage (60X3= 180$) and even with trade ins you will be spending at least 80$ a year on used games and 60$ a year on XBL if you play it.

Now lets look at mini fig gaming. Sure I have to spend 300$ - 500$ or so up front but what I buy will in most cases never loose relevance. So unless I want to theirs no real reason to "upgrade" my figs. Now sure I gotta buy paint but theirs ways to do it on the cheap. Yeah I gotta spend 75$ every 4-6 years on a rule book and 50$ every 4 - 8 years on a codex, but if you look at what I've spent in camparison of 6 years of video gaming I've saved a boat load of money.

Yes.

 DarkWind wrote:

 scipio.au wrote:

Videogames are a lot cheaper. US$250-300 gets you an XBox 360 or PS3 with one or two controllers and a game or two - good games, too - not shovelware crap. Buying games that aren't new releases - like year-old titles - but still top-tier AAA games cost $20-30. And while it's nice, no-one needs 10 games as a buy-in. 2-4 is actually heaps, especially if you choose a couple of games with lots of replayability like a Grand Theft Auto/Saints Row, Call of Duty/Battlefield or any sports games.

I (unfortunately) tell my students to steer clear of things like Warhammer, as fun as they are for me, as it's simply too much of a monetary investment for their parents, and we know how 90% of the teenagers who go into Warhammer end up. I turn them to self-contained miniature boardgames like the D&D ones (Ravenloft, etc) or the World of Warcraft miniatures game (since prepainted singles are cheap as chips on eBay). This is with Australian prices in mind, but it's pretty much as applicable elsewhere as well.

I can see what your saying there sir but let look at this in the long run. So a game system (even used) is about the price of a decent size starter army. However here's one thing your not taking into factor and that's relevance. In a matter of 6-7 years the game system (assuming the first one you bought survived) will be determined as "out of date" and games will stop being produced for it. So you will have to spend more money on the new system (estimated cost for next gen is 300-500$) not to mention the fact that you will buy at least 3 new games every year on avrage (60X3= 180$) and even with trade ins you will be spending at least 80$ a year on used games and 60$ a year on XBL if you play it.

Now lets look at mini fig gaming. Sure I have to spend 300$ - 500$ or so up front but what I buy will in most cases never loose relevance. So unless I want to theirs no real reason to "upgrade" my figs. Now sure I gotta buy paint but theirs ways to do it on the cheap. Yeah I gotta spend 75$ every 4-6 years on a rule book and 50$ every 4 - 8 years on a codex, but if you look at what I've spent in camparison of 6 years of video gaming I've saved a boat load of money.

The thing is - I'm talking about kids getting into the hobby. New blood. They're the ones that the hobby is going to be cost prohibitive for or not. For us - hell - look where we're having this discussion. We're on a specialist wargames board that grew out of GW/40k with an Orkish theme (hence, "Dakka" and the emoticons.) The majority of people posting here are already invested. We can choose to play whatever we want, and we do so. Anyone saying that 40k is too expensive for them is essentially choosing that they no longer want to pay for whatever - that it's no longer value for their dollar or pound or euro - not that they actually can;t afford to continue if they so choose for the exact reasons you point out - you've already got your Marine or Guard army. Maybe you can't afford to buy a whole new Dark Eldar force as well, but you can buy the new rules, or switch to Hordes of Flames of War which you can finance by selling your 40k stuff or just buying piecemeal. (or dropping $400 at once). Cost prohobitive isn't - or shouldn't - be an issue for us, unless we buy into the whole "gotta have the newest, latest, greatest" angle.

Adults who we draw into it - again, a similar issue to us. They'll either borrow our existing figures and use those (as some of my friends do - as they're gamers as opposed to wargamers per se) or they'll buy into whatever game that you or they or the group happens to be playing, whether it's 40k or Dystopian Wars. Adults are also much more likely the ones who will be exposed to non-GW games.

Kids - teens - are the ones that "cost prohibitive" really comes down to. Their first contact usually comes through either Yu-Gi-Oh! cards and/or GW, and of course, GW is what their peers are likely to be playing, if at all. I can't rightly advise any parent (who are the ones paying) to go in for a $100+ starter set, paints, additional units and all the rest. If you've been into a GW store you know how they try and upsell and onsell the newbies and kids and their parents. Not when they can get a 360 with everything for $200-300 (during sale times) which will probably get a lot more use both in terms of daily and years over a 40k starter set. That's why I point the ones who seem more likely to go and possibly stay into the hobby towards cheaper, self-contained stuff. (and talk to their parents) Once they're earning their own money, they can do whatever they want to. When (In Australia) Dark Vengeance comes to $100 less than a non-sale 360 bundle with heaps of stuff, or $8 less than a bare-bones 360 with 1 controller..








Automatically Appended Next Post:

UNCLEBADTOUCH wrote:

 plastictrees wrote:

UNCLEBADTOUCH wrote:
I know the GW white knights will hate me for pointing this out.

You are not saying anything new or insightful.
Thanks for pre-emptively dismissing anyone that disagrees with you, we wouldn't want anyone to forget that we're on the internet.

There was nothing dismissive in that post. Merely an acceptance of the sort of responses my post would engender. Guess you lived up to my assumption, congrats your a GW white knight!

You're not being helpful here. Indeed, you're merely being offensive, somewhat ignorant (in regard to plastictrees) and trollish.

 tdjarvis302 wrote:
I was seriously looking over the prices for a beginner just getting into the game and could not believe the prices GW has set for their intro boxed sets.. or even their models for that matter!

Even companies like Privateer Press and Reaper have given in to the price hikes...

With the world economy as it is, we are facing a shortage of "disposable" income... at least I am!

If I were a parent and my kid came to me asking for $$ to get in to Gaming and I knew nothing about it, I'd need some hefty encouragement to fork out the cash... any others feel this way?

Will there be limitations for pricing or at least a guideline?

Is there a future for paper and metal gaming or will it eventually go to digital (Xbox/PC/PS3, etc)?

I'm concerned to say the least! The average kid just getting started has to fork out some serious "lunch money" just to get in to the hobby!

Short answer: no

Have you seen the latest GW intro set? Best ever to be sure. Also in general, have you ever read up on disposable income in recessions? People flock to escapism. I also have no idea what you mean by "limitations for pricing or at least a guideline". Do you want the government to stop GW from raising prices?

Hobbies are an expense. We spend the money because we enjoy them.

Warhammer, in the grand scheme of hobbies, is really not that expensive. Not that the plastic itself is cheap (it's not), but the upkeep cost and use cost is extraordinarily minimal. Ask a paintballer how much it costs him to play for a weekend. Ask a car rebuilder how much it costs to fix a brake. Ask a duck hunter how much a camo jacket or a box of Hevi-shot costs.

With personal responsibility and a plan, it is easy to save up and build up an army. Once you buy the models, you never need to buy them again. Limit yourself to a new kit once you have painted the previous kit. You can spend time painting them, posing them, and using them. There is no entry fee to play on a dining room table or at a game club.

I find that the people who complain about the cost of Warhammer the most are the ones who rapidly change from army to army without building or painting most of their models.

It involves strategy, creativity, artistry, and socialization. Not many other hobbies can say that.

If you enjoy it, then it is worth it.

 G. Whitenbeard wrote:


Ask a car rebuilder how much it costs to fix a brake.

..not much really.

Now, respraying a whole car. That's expensive. Mine was in the range of 3K.

WHFB and 40k are always going to be pretty prohibitively expensive if you always buy from GW directly. I'll buy from them every now and again but I don't have much money for that. That's what eBay is for.

As Whitenbeard, it's a matter of perspective, if you're churning through flavour of the month armies every time then you're going to find yourself broke quite fast.