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 Soo'Vah'Cha wrote:
I am fairly certain nobody said "let him win", more like take it down a notch or two and let him learn..likely he will still lose quite a bit, but hopefully not get discouraged or develop a "such and such army is too powerful /cheesy whatever attitude" cause it keeps beating on him.

Aileros wrote:The correct way to help him get better is to make it so that every game is really close, and that he wins slightly more than half the time. That will keep his interest up, which will cause him to show up for lesson after lesson.

Yes, someone did say to let him win because if the player doesn't win they won't keep playing.

Any new player should have enough common sense to know that they are likely to lose against someone more experienced. If the new player isn't a poor sport, it is very possible to discuss with them the use of a point handicap to make the game more even while they learn and to close the gap as they improve.

When I started, one of the players got great joy out of beating new players, he wasn't fun to play against.
Another player played as they normally did and generally won by the same gaps as the first player, but they approached it as a teaching experience instead of just beating on the new guy. This player's opponents generally improved quickly while no one wanted to play the first guy because he gloated instead of helping players improve.

Once I had a grasp of the game and could hold my own against vets, when I played new players I had several approaches, all which included honesty about the difference in experience with a request to how they wanted to learn or of they even wanted to learn. Note that I am not an awesome player by any means, but I can hold my own and I can apparently teach good habits better than I can follow them myself.

One guy was up front about how he just liked playing and didn't care about who won. He lost a lot for a year or so, and after a while he decided he would like to learn so after he requested feedback we went over how he played and how he could still play in a theme that fit his style but was more effective. He improved very quickly once he realized that not every ability works as described, and sometimes a volume of fire is better than specialization.

Another player was young and after a game or two I asked if he wanted to learn and if losing was getting him down. He wanted a chance to win, and didn't mind if the forces were uneven to do so so we used a handicap. We started with a 2:1 ratio (he had 2k, I had 1k) because he was very young and didn't have any real gaming experience. We whittled it down over a few games as he learned what worked for him and eventually he was able to outplay me on a regular basis.

Two completely different approaches, neither one of which used intentional losses to bring up the spirit of the player without their knowledge. If a player starting out is set back by losses, throwing games or taking it easy on them without their knowledge will ensure that they will have a higher opinion of their ability than is there and eventually they will come across someone who doesn't hold back and they will start blaming the game system instead. It is still necessary to approach this as a learning experience if they want to learn and honesty is much better than stroking their ego.

actually I'm thinking of versing him against my blob IG. IIRC the reason he's not so good is because he's used to playing on a grid based system, and I just found out he's using the old codex. from watching him play his grid based games I think his problem is he's stuck in a grid based mindset. luckily he just had a birthday and I forgot to get him anything, so he's getting the new codex and once he gets out of his grid mindset I think he will do quite well.

 TheCaptain wrote:

 Testify wrote:


It's pretty obvious that the "tactical" aspect in 40k is minimal. You may as well say there was a random aspect in chess because there's a chance you could be sick on the chess board and forfeit the game.

You want to play a tactical game, play Hearts Of Iron, Europa Universalis, The Operation Art of War. 40k is barely a step above snakes and ladders.

No. Wrong.

The tactical aspect of 40k is manipulating odds in your best possible favour. That's what you don't seem to understand, or refuse to for the sake of argument. I've seen the same argument before, and it's always "Wahhh, dice are random, it's a game of luck." Sure, dice are random, but every decision you make for that 2 hours is a tactical one. Unless you're bad at the game.

See, even in the military, not everything is mathematical and guaranteed odds. Hence why stuff like Mogadishu goes down; random, poor luck. No one can guarantee your fireteam is going to make every shot they are ordered to, just like no one can guarantee that 1/6 of your scout sniper's shots are going to rend. If you think because the game is played with dice, it equates to the same strategy level of "snakes and ladders" then you don't fully understand how to play 40k. Which is a shame, because once you get into the gameplay of making tactical decisions on a squad-based level, it's very engaging.

Try it out,
-Cap

Reported. Deliberately being rude, then calling me stupid and/or incompetent, is not how you should put your thoughts across.

 Testify wrote:

Spoiler:

Oh man, you think:

"If you think because the game is played with dice, it equates to the same strategy level of "snakes and ladders" then you don't fully understand how to play 40k. Which is a shame, because once you get into the gameplay of making tactical decisions on a squad-based level, it's very engaging. "

Is calling you stupid, incompetent, and being deliberately rude? Jeez bud, man up a bit. You're being incredibly sensitive, and instead of responding to my thought out, competent response, you report me. (Which you don't need to post about.)

You implied I don't understand the tactical magnitude of my hobby

I Implied you don't understand the tactical magnitude of your hobby (which happens to be the same one I call my own)

Big deal.

Sorry Testify, but I did not see any overly RUDE comments, just the typical back and forth that always develops on this sight, specially when 2 or more posters go head to head on a topic, for more than a a few posts.

Although I personally find the one line statements of WRONG or NO, as being kinda annoying and or arrogant, meh thats how some people what to be heard.

This is a discussion forum and people will get their panties in a twist over little plastic toys, and a imaginary universe, so a little leather skin goes along ways.

The Captain is far less abrasive than most of the long time posters on here, and he did apologize for offence, so take that and game on.

Anyway back to another episode of "ESCAPE FROM REALITY"

 Soo'Vah'Cha wrote:
The Captain is far less abrasive than most of the long time posters on here

Oh no, I'm definitely more abrasive than anyone on dakka, I just decided to keep it...tame for the sake of discussion, hah. You should have seen some of the things I've said that actually deserved reporting.

But, thank you for your support

-Cappie

To be honest if you know how to play DE and he is not very good I think that could be a worst case senario.

The sugestion about making it more into an event with pictures and posting the report somewhere (maybe here?) would be a posetive step to getting a good sparring partner in the future.

Here's the problem your assuming that everyone learns the same way. Just because you learn by getting your teeth kicked in doesn't mean everyone does.

My suggestion is just talk to your friend and see what he thinks and do that.

I think wowsmash has it! Open lines of communication are usually the answer to many of life's problems.

Unless it is communication between members of the opposite sex, in which case they are speaking different languages half the time!

Handicap