I'm warming up to Power Mauls

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**Brymm**

I think the end result here is that maybe having a mix is best?

I am running 2 squads of deep striking Chaos Terminators in my next game, I will run each as a power sword/axe/maul combo, to keep them cheap and to see what I end up liking the most!

**Ovion**

With a squad of Power Weapons, then yes, a mix is quite probably best. 1-2 of each.

But then if you have a number that doesn't run in multiples of 3 (i.e. 4-5 Terminators for in a Land Raider) What's the bias to Axe / Sword / Mace?
And of course, there's the options for Lightning Claws, Power Fists, Chainfists and such to choose from aswell in that case.

And of course, what's best for a lone warrior?

The Power Maul really is the Take All Comers option, with the others depending on role. (I.E Tank / Termi Hunting, MEQ, etc)

**jdjamesdean@mail.com**

Honestly with lets say a CSM termie squad. I'd rock 3 Power Mauls, 2 Power axe. 2 C-Melta

**Brymm**

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:
Honestly with lets say a CSM termie squad. I'd rock 3 Power Mauls, 2 Power axe. 2 C-Melta

I like that because you don't have to pay extra points for the other types of power weapons. I like the axe/sword/maul over the fist/chainfist/lc because, well, they are free!

**Firstborn**

If you notice, you don't actually have to select a power weapon type when building your list. You simply pay 15pts for a power weapon that can be modeled as any type.

The secret is to have multiple models with different power weapons modeled. There is no rule that says you can't swap them out between games, as you are not altering your list.

The Dark Vengeance Chosen models are excellent for this purpose. They make great Aspiring Champions.

Fighting Orks or most other xenos - take a power maul
Fighting MEQ - take a power axe

**jdjamesdean@mail.com**

Firstborn wrote:
If you notice, you don't actually have to select a power weapon type when building your list. You simply pay 15pts for a power weapon that can be modeled as any type.

The secret is to have multiple models with different power weapons modeled. There is no rule that says you can't swap them out between games, as you are not altering your list.

The Dark Vengeance Chosen models are excellent for this purpose. They make great Aspiring Champions.

Fighting Orks or most other xenos - take a power maul
Fighting MEQ - take a power axe

Like any decent TO/Player would let that one slide.
I'm fairly certain you need to write it up while listbuilding. Not 100% but fairly as it's an option, albeit a free one.

**RegalPhantom**

Andilus Greatsword wrote:
What are the chances that, if 6th shifts to a xenos-heavy meta, we start seeing Power Mauls as the go-to Power Weapon?

It depends on not just whether the meta shifts to favour xenos (which there is currently no indication towards, bar the large number of Necron players), but which xenos the meta shifts towards. If the meta shifts towards Necrons or Tau, the answer is probably not. If the meta shifts towards Eldar (both normal and dark), Nids, or Orks, then possibly, but it depends on a lot of factors (against Eldar, you might just be better off taking an axe, because you are going to be striking last anyways, or even a lance, so MEQ strike simultaneously with Eldar during the first round of combat).

**Exergy**

Firstborn wrote:
If you notice, you don't actually have to select a power weapon type when building your list. You simply pay 15pts for a power weapon that can be modeled as any type.

The secret is to have multiple models with different power weapons modeled. There is no rule that says you can't swap them out between games, as you are not altering your list.

The Dark Vengeance Chosen models are excellent for this purpose. They make great Aspiring Champions.

Fighting Orks or most other xenos - take a power maul
Fighting MEQ - take a power axe

I pointed this out a day or two before 6th edtion actually hit and no one seemed to notice. Yes technically you can do it.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

RegalPhantom wrote:
Andilus Greatsword wrote:
What are the chances that, if 6th shifts to a xenos-heavy meta, we start seeing Power Mauls as the go-to Power Weapon?

It depends on not just whether the meta shifts to favour xenos (which there is currently no indication towards, bar the large number of Necron players), but which xenos the meta shifts towards. If the meta shifts towards Necrons or Tau, the answer is probably not. If the meta shifts towards Eldar (both normal and dark), Nids, or Orks, then possibly, but it depends on a lot of factors (against Eldar, you might just be better off taking an axe, because you are going to be striking last anyways, or even a lance, so MEQ strike simultaneously with Eldar during the first round of combat).

since when do lances give +1 init?

Eldar and DE rock init 5 on their combat units, or sometimes init 6 or 7....
The axe could make sense, but only phonex lords have 2+ saves.... Only exarchs and incubi have 3+ saves so the maul is still pretty good...

**TedNugent**

Kevin949 wrote:

Necron warriors and crypteks are 4+ saves. Those are two fairly important units to the necron army. Not to mention several of the HQ choices are 4+ saves as well.

Oh, and scarabs are 5+. Tomb blades are base 4+ as well with an upgrade to 3+ if taken. Flayed ones as well, though no one takes them.

AP3 goes through 4+ saves, though. And 5+ saves.

And if your opponent goes for Immortals, you have that covered, too.

**HawaiiMatt**

I like to demoralize my opponent by forcing him to roll more saves. 2+ to wound does this.
Of course, it helps that I fight a lot of scarabs(instant death), wraiths and nobs.
All are perfect match ups for the maul.

I would think Grey Knights would love the maul. Maul + Rad grenades means ID at Init.

-Matt

**Andilus Greatsword**

TedNugent wrote:
Kevin949 wrote:
AP3 goes through 4+ saves, though. And 5+ saves.

It does, but a 2+ to wound is much better than a 3+ or 4+ to wound.

**labmouse42**

Mauls are slightly better vs non-MEQ than MEQ. Swords/Axes are better vs MEQ.

The meta in my area has shifted away from as many MEQ armies. Last year I would see 80% MEQ at local tourneys, where now its closer to 50%.

If your meta is following the same trend, then mauls are something to strongly consider.

**Kevin949**

Sigvatr wrote:
[quote=Kevin949 485800 4929026 900f8229b741c0ede87e3d289ca1e01c.jpeg

Necron warriors and crypteks are 4+ saves. Those are two fairly important units to the necron army. Not to mention several of the HQ choices are 4+ saves as well.

Oh, and scarabs are 5+. Tomb blades are base 4+ as well with an upgrade to 3+ if taken. Flayed ones as well, though no one takes them.

If you get into melee with Crypteks, it doesn't matter with what you come equipped, they will die anyway - and all HQ choices have at least a 3+ Oo

I can only recommend using Power Mauls too though, saw them being used really well against non-MEQ armies - as unsatisfying as the answer might be, it's the only answer that's fully true: there is no absolute best weapon, you have to adapt to your local meta.

**farrowking37**

I really do like the power mauls. You hit at initiative, and the +2 strength is great for putting wounds down on hi-toughness models and models that have +3 armor save.

**RegalPhantom**

farrowking37 wrote:
I really do like the power mauls. You hit at initiative, and the +2 strength is great for putting wounds down on hi-toughness models and models that have +3 armor save.

I hope you mean a 4+ save instead of a 3+, because the maul is utterly ineffective at causing wounds against power armour, particularly when compared with a sword. For comparison, assuming that you have a basic space marine attacking another space marine (both sides have a WS, S, and T of 4 and a 3+ save), a marine with a power maul will score about 0.139 unsaved wounds per attack per round of combat (50% to hit, 83.3% to wound, 33.3% to bypass armour) compared with the 0.25 unsaved wounds per attack from a power sword (50% to hit, 50% to wound, 100% to bypass armour).

**Griddlelol**

RegalPhantom wrote:
farrowking37 wrote:
I really do like the power mauls. You hit at initiative, and the +2 strength is great for putting wounds down on hi-toughness models and models that have +3 armor save.

I hope you mean a 4+ save instead of a 3+, because the maul is utterly ineffective at causing wounds against power armour, particularly when compared with a sword. For comparison, assuming that you have a basic space marine attacking another space marine (both sides have a WS, S, and T of 4 and a 3+ save), a marine with a power maul will score about 0.139 unsaved wounds per attack per round of combat (50% to hit, 83.3% to wound, 33.3% to bypass armour) compared with the 0.25 unsaved wounds per attack from a power sword (50% to hit, 50% to wound, 100% to bypass armour).

I like how you redefined "utterly ineffective" your math seems to indicate that the sword isn't even twice as effective as the maul on MEQ.

**Ovion**

ohmy, 0.111 better against a model with a 3+ save!?

Run the math on vs 2+ and vs 4+, and vs T3/5, and see which is best overall.
Infact, I'll do it in a minute once I'm done with dinner.
I like overdoing theoretical stuff (I don't know why)

**Tarrasq**

This is why I love the new CSM. You get so much AP 3 to shoot, mauls become an easy choice.

**Ovion**

Ok, as promised, the comparison between Power Weapons (included the Axe, because why not!)
These are the average wounds caused by 2 WS4 attacks with X Power Weapon vs WS4 Y target (this is the total average against all targets, table below):

Spoiler:

With Str 4, against T4, 3+ save only:
Power Sword (AP3)
Str 4: 0.5
Power Axe (AP2, I1)
Str 4(5): 0.667
Power Maul (AP4)
Str 4(6): 0.278
So yes, against straight Marines, with Str4, it's better than the Maul, almost twice as good infact

Though, with Str 3, against T4, 3+ save only:
Power Sword (AP3)
Str 3: 0.333
Power Axe (AP2, I1)
Str 3(4): 0.5
Power Maul (AP4)
Str 3(5): ~~0.667~~ 0.222
~~The sword is by far the worst option, with the Maul significantly outshining it.~~
Coughs SO, the Maul is only marginally worse than the power sword for T3, but looked at against all targets, is much better....
Throw in that the Maul allows you to hit MUCH bigger targets, and be a viable threat against vehicles (and even walkers), I'm going to go with the Maul

Complete math table here:

Spoiler:

**Exergy**

Ovion wrote:
Ok, as promised, the comparison between Power Weapons (included the Axe, because why not!)
These are the average wounds caused by 2 WS4 attacks with X Power Weapon vs WS4 Y target (this is the total average against all targets, table below):

Spoiler:

Power Sword (AP3)
Str 3 Average: 0.195
Str 4 Average: 0.243
Str 5 Average: 0.292

Power Axe (AP2, I1)
Str 3(4) Average: 0.243
Str 4(5) Average: 0.292
Str 5(6) Average: 0.324

Power Maul (AP4)
Str 3(5) Average: 0.292
Str 4(6) Average: 0.324
Str 5 (7) Average: 0.347

With Str 4, against T4, 3+ save only:
Power Sword (AP3)
Str 4: 0.5
Power Axe (AP2, I1)
Str 4(5): 0.667
Power Maul (AP4)
Str 4(6): 0.278
So yes, against straight Marines, with Str4, it's better than the Maul, almost twice as good infact

Though, with Str 3, against T4, 3+ save only:
Power Sword (AP3)
Str 3: 0.333
Power Axe (AP2, I1)
Str 3(4): 0.5
Power Maul (AP4)
Str 3(5): 0.667
The sword is by far the worst option, with the Maul significantly outshining it.

Throw in that the Maul allows you to hit MUCH bigger targets, and be a viable threat against vehicles (and even walkers), I'm going to go with the Maul

Complete math table here:

Spoiler:

Average wounds caused by 2 WS4 strikes with X Power Weapon vs WS4 Y target:
--------------------------
-----Power Sword (AP3)-----
Str 3 Average: 0.195
Str 3 vs T3
3+ to 6+ Save; 0.5
6+ Inv; 0.417
5+ Inv; 0.333
4+ Inv; 0.25
3+ Inv; 0.167
2+ Save; 0.083
Str 3 vs T4
3+ to 6+ Save; 0.333
6+ Inv; 0.278
5+ Inv; 0.222
4+ Inv; 0.167
3+ Inv; 0.111
2+ Save; 0.056
Str 3 vs T5-6
3+ to 6+ Save; 0.167
6+ Inv; 0.139
5+ Inv; 0.111
4+ Inv; 0.083
3+ Inv; 0.056
2+ Save; 0.028
-----
Str 4 Average: 0.243
Str 4 vs T3
3+ to 6+ Save; 0.667
6+ Inv; 0.556
5+ Inv; 0.444
4+ Inv; 0.333
3+ Inv; 0.222
2+ Save; 0.111
Str 4 vs T4
3+ to 6+ Save; 0.5
6+ Inv; 0.417
5+ Inv; 0.333
4+ Inv; 0.25
3+ Inv; 0.167
2+ Save; 0.083
Str 4 vs T5
3+ to 6+ Save; 0.333
6+ Inv; 0.278
5+ Inv; 0.222
4+ Inv; 0.167
3+ Inv; 0.111
2+ Save; 0.056
Str 4 vs T6-7
3+ to 6+ Save; 0.167
6+ Inv; 0.139
5+ Inv; 0.111
4+ Inv; 0.083
3+ Inv; 0.056
2+ Save; 0.028
-----
Str 5 Average: 0.292
Str 5 vs T3
3+ to 6+ Save; 0.833
6+ Inv; 0.694
5+ Inv; 0.556
4+ Inv; 0.417
3+ Inv; 0.278
2+ Save; 0.139
Str 5 vs T4
3+ to 6+ Save; 0.667
6+ Inv; 0.556
5+ Inv; 0.444
4+ Inv; 0.333
3+ Inv; 0.222
2+ Save; 0.111
Str 5 vs T5
3+ to 6+ Save; 0.5
6+ Inv; 0.417
5+ Inv; 0.333
4+ Inv; 0.25
3+ Inv; 0.167
2+ Save; 0.083
Str 5 vs T6
3+ to 6+ Save; 0.333
6+ Inv; 0.278
5+ Inv; 0.222
4+ Inv; 0.167
3+ Inv; 0.111
2+ Save; 0.056
Str 5 vs T7-8
3+ to 6+ Save; 0.167
6+ Inv; 0.139
5+ Inv; 0.111
4+ Inv; 0.083
3+ Inv; 0.056
2+ Save; 0.028
--------------------------
-----Power Axe (AP2, I1)-----
Str 3(4) Average: 0.243
Str 3(4) vs T3
2+ to 6+ Save; 0.667
6+ Inv; 0.556
5+ Inv; 0.444
4+ Inv; 0.333
3+ Inv; 0.222
2+ Inv; 0.111
Str 3(4) vs T4
2+ to 6+ Save; 0.5
6+ Inv; 0.417
5+ Inv; 0.333
4+ Inv; 0.25
3+ Inv; 0.167
2+ Inv; 0.083
Str 3(4) vs T5
2+ to 6+ Save; 0.333
6+ Inv; 0.278
5+ Inv; 0.222
4+ Inv; 0.167
3+ Inv; 0.111
2+ Inv; 0.056
Str 3(4) vs T6-7
2+ to 6+ Save; 0.167
6+ Inv; 0.139
5+ Inv; 0.111
4+ Inv; 0.083
3+ Inv; 0.056
2+ Inv; 0.028
-----
Str 4(5) Average: 0.292
Str 4(5) vs T3
2+ to 6+ Save; 0.833
6+ Inv; 0.694
5+ Inv; 0.556
4+ Inv; 0.417
3+ Inv; 0.278
2+ Inv; 0.139
Str 4(5) vs T4
2+ to 6+ Save; 0.667
6+ Inv; 0.556
5+ Inv; 0.444
4+ Inv; 0.333
3+ Inv; 0.222
2+ Inv; 0.111
Str 4(5) vs T5
2+ to 6+ Save; 0.5
6+ Inv; 0.417
5+ Inv; 0.333
4+ Inv; 0.25
3+ Inv; 0.167
2+ Inv; 0.083
Str 4(5) vs T6
2+ to 6+ Save; 0.333
6+ Inv; 0.278
5+ Inv; 0.222
4+ Inv; 0.167
3+ Inv; 0.111
2+ Inv; 0.056
Str 4(5) vs T7-8
2+ to 6+ Save; 0.167
6+ Inv; 0.139
5+ Inv; 0.111
4+ Inv; 0.083
3+ Inv; 0.056
2+ Inv; 0.028
-----
Str 5(6) Average: 0.324
Str 5(6) vs T3
2+ to 6+ Save; 0.833
6+ Inv; 0.694
5+ Inv; 0.556
4+ Inv; 0.417
3+ Inv; 0.278
2+ Inv; 0.139
Str 5(6) vs T4
2+ to 6+ Save; 0.833
6+ Inv; 0.694
5+ Inv; 0.556
4+ Inv; 0.417
3+ Inv; 0.278
2+ Inv; 0.139
Str 5(6) vs T5
2+ to 6+ Save; 0.667
6+ Inv; 0.556
5+ Inv; 0.444
4+ Inv; 0.333
3+ Inv; 0.222
2+ Inv; 0.111
Str 5(6) vs T6
2+ to 6+ Save; 0.5
6+ Inv; 0.417
5+ Inv; 0.333
4+ Inv; 0.25
3+ Inv; 0.167
2+ Inv; 0.083
Str 5(6) vs T7
2+ to 6+ Save; 0.333
6+ Inv; 0.278
5+ Inv; 0.222
4+ Inv; 0.167
3+ Inv; 0.111
2+ Inv; 0.056
Str 5(6) vs T8-9
2+ to 6+ Save; 0.167
6+ Inv; 0.139
5+ Inv; 0.111
4+ Inv; 0.083
3+ Inv; 0.056
2+ Inv; 0.028
--------------------------
-----Power Maul (AP4)-----
Str 3(5) Average: 0.292
Str 3(5) vs T3
4+ to 6+ Save; 0.833
6+ Inv; 0.694
5+ Inv; 0.556
4+ Inv; 0.417
3+ Save; 0.278
2+ Save; 0.139
Str 3(5) vs T4
4+ to 6+ Save; 0.667
6+ Inv; 0.556
5+ Inv; 0.444
4+ Inv; 0.333
3+ Save; 0.222
2+ Save; 0.111
Str 3(5) vs T5
4+ to 6+ Save; 0.5
6+ Inv; 0.417
5+ Inv; 0.333
4+ Inv; 0.25
3+ Save; 0.167
2+ Save; 0.083
Str 3(5) vs T6
4+ to 6+ Save; 0.333
6+ Inv; 0.278
5+ Inv; 0.222
4+ Inv; 0.167
3+ Save; 0.111
2+ Save; 0.056
Str 3(5) vs T7-8
4+ to 6+ Save; 0.167
6+ Inv; 0.139
5+ Inv; 0.111
4+ Inv; 0.083
3+ Save; 0.056
2+ Save; 0.028
-----
Str 4(6) Average: 0.324
Str 4(6) vs T3
4+ to 6+ Save; 0.833
6+ Inv; 0.694
5+ Inv; 0.556
4+ Inv; 0.417
3+ Save; 0.278
2+ Save; 0.139
Str 4(6) vs T4
4+ to 6+ Save; 0.833
6+ Inv; 0.694
5+ Inv; 0.556
4+ Inv; 0.417
3+ Save; 0.278
2+ Save; 0.139
Str 4(6) vs T5
4+ to 6+ Save; 0.667
6+ Inv; 0.556
5+ Inv; 0.444
4+ Inv; 0.333
3+ Save; 0.222
2+ Save; 0.111
Str 4(6) vs T6
4+ to 6+ Save; 0.5
6+ Inv; 0.417
5+ Inv; 0.333
4+ Inv; 0.25
3+ Save; 0.167
2+ Save; 0.083
Str 4(6) vs T7
4+ to 6+ Save; 0.333
6+ Inv; 0.278
5+ Inv; 0.222
4+ Inv; 0.167
3+ Save; 0.111
2+ Save; 0.056
Str 4(6) vs T8-9
4+ to 6+ Save; 0.167
6+ Inv; 0.139
5+ Inv; 0.111
4+ Inv; 0.083
3+ Save; 0.056
2+ Save; 0.028
-----
Str 5 (7) Average: 0.347
Str 5(7) vs T3
4+ to 6+ Save; 0.833
6+ Inv; 0.694
5+ Inv; 0.556
4+ Inv; 0.417
3+ Save; 0.278
2+ Save; 0.139
Str 5(7) vs T4
4+ to 6+ Save; 0.833
6+ Inv; 0.694
5+ Inv; 0.556
4+ Inv; 0.417
3+ Save; 0.278
2+ Save; 0.139
Str5(7) vs T5
4+ to 6+ Save; 0.833
6+ Inv; 0.694
5+ Inv; 0.556
4+ Inv; 0.417
3+ Save; 0.278
2+ Save; 0.139
Str 5(7) vs T6
4+ to 6+ Save; 0.667
6+ Inv; 0.556
5+ Inv; 0.444
4+ Inv; 0.333
3+ Save; 0.222
2+ Save; 0.111
Str 5(7) vs T7
4+ to 6+ Save; 0.5
6+ Inv; 0.417
5+ Inv; 0.333
4+ Inv; 0.25
3+ Save; 0.167
2+ Save; 0.083
Str 5(7) vs T8
4+ to 6+ Save; 0.333
6+ Inv; 0.278
5+ Inv; 0.222
4+ Inv; 0.167
3+ Save; 0.111
2+ Save; 0.056
Str 5(7) vs T9-10
4+ to 6+ Save; 0.167
6+ Inv; 0.139
5+ Inv; 0.111
4+ Inv; 0.083
3+ Save; 0.056
2+ Save; 0.028
--------------------------

your math looks to be a little off. even str3 vs t4 the sword does more wounds. should be .222 wounds from the maul.
str 3 vs t 5 and the sword and the maul do the same damage.

**jdjamesdean@mail.com**

Yea the maul 3(5) vs 3+ save is only .222

**Ovion**

Oops - I picked the wrong result from the chart... It's correct in the wall of numbers.... ><
I think this goes to show doing this sort of thing late at 2am... I'll just go hang my head in shame.

I'm still liking the best Power Maul overall though as I'm very much a Take All Comers type of person....

**JAMOB**

So basically, Mauls better vs any army thats mostly t3 as it will have a lot of 4+/worse saves, swords vs MEQ. As stated.

**Tiarna Fuilteach**

Are your metas still predominantly power armour dominant? We're seeing a huge increase in necron/guard flier spam (more necron for obvious reasons) which are making up around half of all tournament armies alone

**Ovion**

My local area, even though damn near everyone has an MEQ force (ohgods, even me too now with my CSM), most people prefer using their other armies... so I've faced (relatively) very few MEQ armies in the last year or so.

**schadenfreude**

On the topic of necrons.

Chumps with a 4+save=dead regardless of sword/maul, The difference is small potatoes, and the rest of the unit will probably fold in CC

3+ T4 Crons
The result is going to depend more on the presence or absence of a lord than anything else which leads me to the next topic.

Necron Lord with MSS, scythe, and sepweave is going to issue a challenge. Maul>powersword, but the wounds will probably still bounce off the 2+ and the sergeant is going to die at I2. The alternatives is to swing at I1 with an axe or pfist, but a single wound model is probably going to die at I2 unless it's packing a storm shield. Gold goes to the storm shield, and power maul takes the silver. Since storm shields are usually not an option the power maul is the best out of 4 bad options.

Other necron stuff that's dangerous in CC.

The usual suspects: Scarabs and Wraiths.

Scarabs: Power maul causes ID to a 3 wound model which makes it more than 3 times better than a sword or axe. It even out performs the fist which costs more points.

Wraiths: Power maul once again takes 1st place and way out performs the sword and axe. It even out performs the fist, which costs more points.

The less common culprits: praetorians, lychguard, and spyders.

Sword has a slight edge over the maul against praetorians, and the maul has a slight edge over the sword against lychguard. It's kindof a moot point however if we are talking about a single wound squad leader, the squad is out classed by a 400+ point deathstar and a dlord or lord is going to be issuing a challenge.

Sypders really need a pfist to crack. The maul and sword are equally bad needing 6 hits to cause an unsaved wound on a spyder, and the axe still needs 3 hits to wound a spyder.

Overall against necrons the maul is the best option. It performs way better against wraiths and scarabs, and the fields it doesn't perform a lot better on are not hugely important because it's a lost cause for either the necrons or meq.

**Lucre**

Hmmm it just seems to me like you aren't benefitting all that much from your investment in the maul, except maybe vs armor but then again you've probably got a squads worth of Krak grenades so how much is that worth.

Most of the things you are really getting your 15 points worth for the maul aren't things that MEQ or bolters tend to have much trouble taking care of when you come down to it. I guess you have to look at it in a comparative points sort of way though. Why am I investing in killing dire avengers and fire warriors better? Don't my guys do that pretty well already? And getting into close combat with any unit of hiveguard means you are doing your job anyway.

MCs with a crappy armor save and scarab bases are certainly an exception to this, I suppose toughness 3 models with FNP are too, but you don't tend to see too many of those anymore, or many of any of those things for that matter.

And when it rains it pours. When you are coming up against a unit that the maul is the best option out of a bad bunch, you really aren't feeling all that much better about the decision. How many more ork boyz are you killing a turn? Is it that big of a benefit vs that squad of wraiths?

I'm really looking for the plan for the maul here, but besides trying kill warriors a little faster and instant kill the rare scarab bases hopefully before the spyders get stuck in I'm just not seeing it.

**Andilus Greatsword**

Lucre wrote:
Is it that big of a benefit vs that squad of wraiths?

Since they have a 3++ anyway, the ability to score wounds on them more reliably is important, yes. But yeah, Mauls don't necessarily a "niche" like swords or axes (anti-MEQ and anti-TEQ respectively), but they are useful in almost every opportunity (anti-armour, anti-MC, anti-xenos, and the ability to dish out wounds on a 2+ in most case is always very handy), unlike the niches which are more situational (eg, a sword may be guaranteed to kill a Marine, but it has to wound first - and MEQ vs MEQ, that's only a 25% chance of happening ignoring any sort of other modifier which may crop up [cover, invuls, FNP, reduced WS, etc]).

**phantommaster**

HawaiiMatt wrote:
I like to demoralize my opponent by forcing him to roll more saves. 2+ to wound does this.
Of course, it helps that I fight a lot of scarabs(instant death), wraiths and nobs.
All are perfect match ups for the maul.

I would think Grey Knights would love the maul. Maul + Rad grenades means ID at Init.

-Matt

Until you realise you have I6 Force Weapons.

**Exergy**

Lucre wrote:

Most of the things you are really getting your 15 points worth for the maul aren't things that MEQ or bolters tend to have much trouble taking care of when you come down to it. I guess you have to look at it in a comparative points sort of way though. Why am I investing in killing dire avengers and fire warriors better? Don't my guys do that pretty well already? And getting into close combat with any unit of hiveguard means you are doing your job anyway.

MCs with a crappy armor save and scarab bases are certainly an exception to this, I suppose toughness 3 models with FNP are too, but you don't tend to see too many of those anymore, or many of any of those things for that matter.

I'm really looking for the plan for the maul here, but besides trying kill warriors a little faster and instant kill the rare scarab bases hopefully before the spyders get stuck in I'm just not seeing it.

Against 3+ saves with no invul equal toughness to str the sword triples the wound output, the maul nearly doubles them
Against 4+ saves with no invul equal toughness to str the sword doubles the wound output, the maul almost quadruples them
Against 2+ saves, equal toughness to str the sword does jack, the maul nearly doubles the wound output
Against 3+ saves with no invul toughness +1 to str the sword triples the wounds output, the maul fully doubles them. (meq vs bikes, plaguemarines, necronlords/lychguard and geq vs meq)

worth 15 points, entirely dependent on the character wielding it, but at least with the maul you will never get no benefit from it in combat. The sword has a bunch of situations where you dont get anything.