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So the flying Daemon Prince of Tzeentch is out of the box now and it seems that he's the new Chaos Space Marine flying tank.

With a power armour and the Mark of Tzeentch he can absorb and lot of firepower when he's in swooping mode and when I say a lot, I mean a lot... just to hit him with snapshot's is a challenge. With the Burning Brand he's got a torrent template S4, AP3... an infantry killer... and when he's ready to land he's still a close combat brute.

Ok he's killable with a flyer and anti-aircraft weaponry, but still... he's got that invulnerable save and a lot of wounds... he start the game on the table (unlike a flyer) and can reach up to 36" from it's starting position with the Burning Brand.

That guy is a beast to take down while he's in flight...
I wasn't a fan of the new Daemon Prince but that guy is coming back from the grave and earned a place back in my list...

Yup. He's good. Until you realize a single str 10 shot and he's done for the day.

I like shooting drop pod and other little bolters at fliers trying to make them hit the deck. Tends to work most of the time.

Furthermore the DP must start on the table in normal mode, meaning I can hit him easily, and I will give him a triple railgun salute... BSF away!

Agreed, he's killable and he's a huge point sink, to lose him at the beginning of turn one would hur, but if he start the game behind cover and get in swooping mode then he actually have a chance to hit something from turn one.

Also, since he can swith modes and move like jump infantry that's a turn 2 charge in a tank (if played well) and since he's a FMC his smash attacks should worry any tank he hits.

He's not something you want to ignore and that make him a great disrupting unit and every heavy weapon you shoot his way is a weapon that won't shoot anything else... and he's got that 5+ inv. save and he can re-roll the 1's... that's almost a 4+ inv. save, it's kinda sweet...

New fire magnet !

You can easily hide the model out of LOS turn 1.

After that it's up to a little bit of luck.

He' pricey and scary. If you go with mastery3, you get a couple shots at getting iron arm. or the other one that gives EW/FNP/IWND

I think Daemon princes have really lost there last leg for purchasable models. theyre really good but expensive and you cant rely on them as much with a worse invuln and no eternal warrior. I saw someone slap the burning brand on a slanash lord on a mount with outflank and acute senses with a bike squad and fnp for close to the same price. I had some fun with ahriman percision shotting a csm seargents face while facing this list, Ahriman daemoning out then charging, challenging lucius and smashing him in the face. Silly fun

 juraigamer wrote:
Yup. He's good. Until you realize a single str 10 shot and he's done for the day.

I like shooting drop pod and other little bolters at fliers trying to make them hit the deck. Tends to work most of the time.

Furthermore the DP must start on the table in normal mode, meaning I can hit him easily, and I will give him a triple railgun salute... BSF away!

FMC don't have to start on the table in jump mode, if they start on the table the have to start in jump mode, if the prince comes in from reserve he can choose to either come in as flying or jump, or deepstrike in.

A single S10 shot and a landraider or a monolith is done for the day for the day too

 juraigamer wrote:
Yup. He's good. Until you realize a single str 10 shot and he's done for the day.

I like shooting drop pod and other little bolters at fliers trying to make them hit the deck. Tends to work most of the time.

Furthermore the DP must start on the table in normal mode, meaning I can hit him easily, and I will give him a triple railgun salute... BSF away!

You know railguns only roll 1s to wound.

RG's are a good choice to ID DPs however you need to see them to do so. Hiding him out of LOS turn 1 when this stuff around is key

He must start on the table in normal mode, not must start on the table. Putting him in reserve just increases the handicap in your power until he comes in, and opens the door for mishap and other problems, such as warp quake.

If he start the game on the table hidden somewhere he should be safe enought.

He's suffering a lot because of that T5 but how many S10 weapon do you find on a battlefield? (not talking about the Tau here I know how many they can field ).

The thing is that he's almost immune to small arm fire, especially from the S4 weapons and the Burning Brand gives him a shooting power he can use to kill infantry while swooping... and we know how important is infantry to take objective, that guy is a challenger and an infantry killer all in one...

I thought the Daemon rule gave him eternal warrior? Is that gone now... can someone point me to the page in the BRB or Chaos SM book where it says this...

Why are people soooo hung up on the fact Str10 kills the DP?

how much Str10 is out there?

Railguns. One army

There are quite a few blasts, but guess what? Flying models don't care about blasts. The only time he should be gliding is if hes about to go wreck face in melee.

force weps, power klaws, tyranids or other monsters, walkers. And if they have any of this you can be pretty sure its comming for your DP

 Bloodecho wrote:
force weps, power klaws, tyranids or other monsters, walkers. And if they have any of this you can be pretty sure its comming for your DP

And while they do they ignore the other 1700 pts on the table? Great!
Disruption at it's best... you don't want to fight it but you can't ignore it! Makes me think of my Trygons...

Proxy wrote:
but still... he's got that invulnerable save and a lot of wounds...

He only has a 5++ inv like every other prince in the CSM dex. He does have the reroll 1s which is handy with power armor and helps a small bit with the inv, but not sure its better then say nurgle who gets shrouding.

Whilst he is vulnerable to S10, unless you face tau fairly regularly its no biggie. They need to ground him first, and I think one of the key choices in FMC's is when and where to take to the skys.

If you reeeaaaaallly want to get that manticore over on the other side of big blob of guardsmen, then flying over them to rain fire on the manticore is a bad idea for example. Those guardsmen will cop a FRFSRF order, and whilst the flashlights aren't going to hurt too much, they are going to ground you if they put enough cheap guardsmen flashlight rounds into him. then they will point the big guns at you when they don't require 6's to hit.

So asides from railguns, being downed by mass small arms fire is a big concern. And as a small note- the other list of horribles happening to your DP-
PK's are only S10 with a warboss, and to be frank your DP shouldn't be getting stuck into a warboss and his retinue. That's just grossly overestimating your DP's melee prowess- a nob mob or big block o' orks isn't what your DP wants to tango with on his own.
Force weapons can be challenged. Hope you've got a good invul save, or more than one in the unit! Again- maybe charging several force weapons ain't the best idea? I'm sure people should be able to see that one coming.
Sure he has his weakness's- but doesn't everything?

 Jihallah wrote:
Whilst he is vulnerable to S10, unless you face tau fairly regularly its no biggie. They need to ground him first, and I think one of the key choices in FMC's is when and where to take to the skys.

If you reeeaaaaallly want to get that manticore over on the other side of big blob of guardsmen, then flying over them to rain fire on the manticore is a bad idea for example. Those guardsmen will cop a FRFSRF order, and whilst the flashlights aren't going to hurt too much, they are going to ground you if they put enough cheap guardsmen flashlight rounds into him. then they will point the big guns at you when they don't require 6's to hit.

So asides from railguns, being downed by mass small arms fire is a big concern. And as a small note- the other list of horribles happening to your DP-
PK's are only S10 with a warboss, and to be frank your DP shouldn't be getting stuck into a warboss and his retinue. That's just grossly overestimating your DP's melee prowess- a nob mob or big block o' orks isn't what your DP wants to tango with on his own.
Force weapons can be challenged. Hope you've got a good invul save, or more than one in the unit! Again- maybe charging several force weapons ain't the best idea? I'm sure people should be able to see that one coming.
Sure he has his weakness's- but doesn't everything?

they can FRFSRF all they want, it's 1 test per unit fired IIRC.

With my luck I'll pass all the grounding tests and die to flashlights...

Nah the flashlights won't kill you. But you make a test for being hit(iirc), with a 1/3 chance of falling down, so point 3-4 rapid fire units at him... He's got good odds of dropping then getting focused

 Jihallah wrote:
Nah the flashlights won't kill you. But you make a test for being hit(iirc), with a 1/3 chance of falling down, so point 3-4 rapid fire units at him... He's got good odds of dropping then getting focused

I forget people don't roll 3+ like I do, it ought to be a crime ^^

However do you take FRFSRF or Bring it down? I'd opt for BiD in this case imo

Not a guard player.

But- you must use orders at the start of the turn. BiD you would want on your plasma vets, SWS or HWS. the thing needs to be grounded first. Its situational, but if I have a 20-30 blob I'd FRFSRF for more flashlight hits since that first volley only had a 1/3 chance of a good result (lasgun wounds are just a bonus, the main job is to down it)

An infantry platoon will usually have a special weapon, and often a heavy. So you are looking at 6 lasgunners, a sarge, a HWT and a special. FRFSRF in this case turns 12-13 shots into 24-25. For a naked squad, it turns 18-19 shots into 36-37 shots. Since they need 6s to hit, this means about 2 hits to 4 hits or 4 hits to 6 hits. In any case, should be sufficient to force the chesk. Get three squads on him, and he should hit the ground. Then light him up with plasma, melta, lascannons, or whatever.

At 300 or so points, it is generally worth the attention.

Lacking EW isn't the big hit for DPs this go round, it's the price and that you need another HQ to unlock marked troops.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Why are people soooo hung up on the fact Str10 kills the DP?

how much Str10 is out there?

Tau have some
Guard have some
Nercons have some
Space marines have some
Nids have some
Chaos marines have some

That's all the armies with str 10 shooting that I can think of. Not even counting melee. Watch me smash attack your demon prince at str 10.

 Eiluj The Farseer wrote:
I thought the Daemon rule gave him eternal warrior? Is that gone now... can someone point me to the page in the BRB or Chaos SM book where it says this...

So where in the new rules does daemon not confer eternal warrior?

 juraigamer wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
Why are people soooo hung up on the fact Str10 kills the DP?

how much Str10 is out there?

1)Tau have some
2)Guard have some
3)Nercons have some
4)Space marines have some
5)Nids have some
6)Chaos marines have some

That's all the armies with str 10 shooting that I can think of. Not even counting melee. Watch me smash attack your demon prince at str 10.

1) Its one army

2) Its all pieplates. Which a FMC is immune to.

3) Only hits on a 6 with one shot.

4) Again, pie plates.

5) The DP can smash right back at them.

6) Same deal



Its really not a huge deal. You ARE running your prince with Wings right?

I think there is a spot for this guy. I can't imagine any army could ignore this guy, so they have to do SOMETHING. There is a chance that that something won't work.
Step 1: Swoop
Step 2: Fire Burning Brand
Step 3: ???
Step 4: PROFIT!!!

This guy has to compliment your list otherwise he'll be a wasted investment. Knowing that most armies have to deal with him, use him as an immediate threat while you turbo boost your Bikes foward, run your insanely fast Maulerfiends and Nurgle Spawn and make them pick. Something will hit that gun line and start wrecking shop... while your Marines roll up in Rhinos to clean up.
I like this guy!

 Eiluj The Farseer wrote:

 Eiluj The Farseer wrote:
I thought the Daemon rule gave him eternal warrior? Is that gone now... can someone point me to the page in the BRB or Chaos SM book where it says this...

So where in the new rules does daemon not confer eternal warrior?

Page 35 BRB defines the Daemon SR.

Codex: Daemons specifies that everything in that Codex has EW. The Codex: Chaos Space Marines does not use the entry for Codex: Daemons.

 juraigamer wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
Why are people soooo hung up on the fact Str10 kills the DP?

how much Str10 is out there?

Tau have some
Guard have some
Nercons have some
Space marines have some
Nids have some
Chaos marines have some

That's all the armies with str 10 shooting that I can think of. Not even counting melee. Watch me smash attack your demon prince at str 10.

nilla marines have a psykic power that is str10 shooting attack
blood angles have a psykic power that is str10 in combat
DE have missiles that are ID
DE have 2 different melee weapons that cause ID.
Every model in the GK book practically has ID

really there is just too much str10 / ID for a 250-300 point nasty that doesnt have EW. If he was 150, it would be a risk, but manageable.

Would you pay this number of points for 4 Plague Marines? That's as hard as a daemon prince is to kill, by and large.

 Grey Templar wrote:



1) Its one army

2) Its all pieplates. Which a FMC is immune to.

3) Only hits on a 6 with one shot.

4) Again, pie plates.

5) The DP can smash right back at them.

6) Same deal

FMCs aren't immune to pie plates if you make them drop with enough hits. You're making the very poor assumption that people aren't going to try and ground it before using str:10 weapons.

Grounding tests really take alot of the fear out of FMC. I mean marklights can trigger a grounding test.

rigeld2 wrote:

 Eiluj The Farseer wrote:

 Eiluj The Farseer wrote:
I thought the Daemon rule gave him eternal warrior? Is that gone now... can someone point me to the page in the BRB or Chaos SM book where it says this...

So where in the new rules does daemon not confer eternal warrior?

Page 35 BRB defines the Daemon SR.

Codex: Daemons specifies that everything in that Codex has EW. The Codex: Chaos Space Marines does not use the entry for Codex: Daemons.

Thank you for answering my question