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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/11/05 17:29:35
Subject: Making the Most of the Choas Boon table
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Dakka Veteran
Reading - UK
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Just wanted to share some initial thoughts I had.
You need to kill a charcater or have a wound allocated to a character amoung other wounds which ends up killing a character.
So there's two ways to do this. Shooting and Combat.
Not everyone runs characters in their basic squads but I think this will be the norm as more codex's come out with this new format.
Combat means him accepting a challenge and not killing you in the process.
The alternative is shooting which is where precision shots play an important part, something I often forget about.
This could be very worth while upgrading our champions to have a Combi Plasma to have that chance of landing a precision shot and killing the target.
Please feel free to share any other thoughts along the lines of tactics in order to try to make the most of the Boon table.
Thanks.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/11/06 12:37:43
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/11/05 19:20:11
Subject: Making the ost of the Choas Boon table
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Been Around the Block
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While the Boon table is mostly awesome for a melee Lord or Prince, for basically everyone else it´s ok at best even if you roll a good result.
It might make Combi-Plasmas a bit more worthwhile, but I honestly wouldn´t include them if you weren´t going to anyway.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/11/05 19:22:46
Subject: Making the ost of the Choas Boon table
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Devestating Grey Knight Dreadknight
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The way to make the best of the Boon table is to ignore it. It is a nice little benefit if you happen to get a roll, and a further bonus in the unlikely chance that the roll is good for that particular model, but trying to plan anything resembling a strategy around something so random is silly.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/11/05 19:27:20
Subject: Making the ost of the Choas Boon table
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Dour Wolf Priest with Iron Wolf Amulet
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Treat the Chaos Boons table as a bonus, but don't rely on it. It's like Seizing the Initiative - nice if you can get it, but don't plan your whole strategy on it (unless you're playing Imhotek Necrons).
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/11/05 19:28:02
Subject: Making the ost of the Choas Boon table
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Hellacious Havoc
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Pretty much. If it helps, great, if it doesn't, sucks to be you.
Only thing to remember is you can precision strike in melee too. Meaning that most people will just accept your challenges, because you have a chance of picking out their character anyway.
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Necroshea wrote:You - You there, wolf heathen! I long for combat!
Wolf heathen - I accept your challenge, but only on my terms! 250% points for me!
You - Ha! You've activated my trap card! Allied army! Come forth to assist!
Friend - Sup
Wolf Heathen - An equal point match?! This is not acceptable! Tau friend! Form up on me!
And then some guy throws a manta at the table and promptly breaks it in half sending figures and terrain everywhere. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/11/05 19:33:36
Subject: Re:Making the ost of the Choas Boon table
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Long-Range Land Speeder Pilot
A small, damp hole somewhere in England
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One thing I found this week is that it doesn't always need a precision shot to kill an enemy character.
Even if your character's fire doesn't get a 6 to hit, he might still hit with a normal shot. If you are careful allocating your wounds, you can try and make his fire the shot that kills the enemy character anyway - after all you are still causing the damage.
For example, imagine your 3 CSMs including one champion shoot 3 guardsmen, with the Sgt in the middle. You score 3 hits, one from each CSM and one from the champion. Your first shot is from a CSM and kills the front guardsman. You then choose to allocate the second shot from the Champion, giving you a chance to kill the Sgt (he can make a LoS) and if it succeeds you get a roll on the books table.
On an unrelated note I've so far rolled on the table three times following a character kill in two games... and have got 2 daemon princes out of it!
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Follow the White Scars Fifth Brotherhood as they fight in the Yarov sector - battle report #7 against Eldar here! |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/11/05 19:43:10
Subject: Re:Making the ost of the Choas Boon table
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Stone Bonkers Fabricator General
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Hedgehog wrote:One thing I found this week is that it doesn't always need a precision shot to kill an enemy character.
Even if your character's fire doesn't get a 6 to hit, he might still hit with a normal shot. If you are careful allocating your wounds, you can try and make his fire the shot that kills the enemy character anyway - after all you are still causing the damage.
For example, imagine your 3 CSMs including one champion shoot 3 guardsmen, with the Sgt in the middle. You score 3 hits, one from each CSM and one from the champion. Your first shot is from a CSM and kills the front guardsman. You then choose to allocate the second shot from the Champion, giving you a chance to kill the Sgt (he can make a LoS) and if it succeeds you get a roll on the books table.
On an unrelated note I've so far rolled on the table three times following a character kill in two games... and have got 2 daemon princes out of it!
I am not sure you can split your similar wounds
thus if you did 2 wounds from your normal troopers and 1 from your champion and you are shooting at 3 guardsmen out of cover with the sergeant in the middle you either have to resolve the champions wound or the normal troopers wounds, either way you miss the sergeant.
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Dark Mechanicus and Renegade Iron Hand Dakka Blog
My Dark Mechanicus P&M Blog. Mostly Modeling as I paint very slowly. Lots of kitbashed conversions of marines and a few guard to make up a renegade Iron Hand chapter and Dark Mechanicus Allies. Bionics++ |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/11/05 19:58:40
Subject: Re:Making the ost of the Choas Boon table
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Long-Range Land Speeder Pilot
A small, damp hole somewhere in England
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Exergy wrote: Hedgehog wrote:One thing I found this week is that it doesn't always need a precision shot to kill an enemy character.
Even if your character's fire doesn't get a 6 to hit, he might still hit with a normal shot. If you are careful allocating your wounds, you can try and make his fire the shot that kills the enemy character anyway - after all you are still causing the damage.
For example, imagine your 3 CSMs including one champion shoot 3 guardsmen, with the Sgt in the middle. You score 3 hits, one from each CSM and one from the champion. Your first shot is from a CSM and kills the front guardsman. You then choose to allocate the second shot from the Champion, giving you a chance to kill the Sgt (he can make a LoS) and if it succeeds you get a roll on the books table.
On an unrelated note I've so far rolled on the table three times following a character kill in two games... and have got 2 daemon princes out of it!
I am not sure you can split your similar wounds
thus if you did 2 wounds from your normal troopers and 1 from your champion and you are shooting at 3 guardsmen out of cover with the sergeant in the middle you either have to resolve the champions wound or the normal troopers wounds, either way you miss the sergeant.
I don't see why not - see P15 'Mixed wounds'. In this case the Chaos Boon table is a special rule that applies to his shots - so its resolved separately, in the order the Chaos player chooses.
Or think of it another way - imagine you were firing a champion's plasma pistol and his CSM's boltguns at an power-armoured enemy squad with a terminator character. In that situation you would surely be holding back the plasma shot until you could allocate it to the enemy character - so why not do the same with your boltgun? The fact that it's exactly the same weapon as the rest of his squadmates doesn't matter in the least.
In fact now that I think about it that's a pretty good argument for taking a combi-flamer! That will get you loads of hits on an enemy unit, thus plenty of chances to take out the enemy character and get a roll on the table and Princehood (or spawnhood)...
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/11/05 20:02:33
Follow the White Scars Fifth Brotherhood as they fight in the Yarov sector - battle report #7 against Eldar here! |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/11/05 20:04:48
Subject: Re:Making the ost of the Choas Boon table
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Stone Bonkers Fabricator General
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Hedgehog wrote: Exergy wrote: Hedgehog wrote:One thing I found this week is that it doesn't always need a precision shot to kill an enemy character.
Even if your character's fire doesn't get a 6 to hit, he might still hit with a normal shot. If you are careful allocating your wounds, you can try and make his fire the shot that kills the enemy character anyway - after all you are still causing the damage.
For example, imagine your 3 CSMs including one champion shoot 3 guardsmen, with the Sgt in the middle. You score 3 hits, one from each CSM and one from the champion. Your first shot is from a CSM and kills the front guardsman. You then choose to allocate the second shot from the Champion, giving you a chance to kill the Sgt (he can make a LoS) and if it succeeds you get a roll on the books table.
On an unrelated note I've so far rolled on the table three times following a character kill in two games... and have got 2 daemon princes out of it!
I am not sure you can split your similar wounds
thus if you did 2 wounds from your normal troopers and 1 from your champion and you are shooting at 3 guardsmen out of cover with the sergeant in the middle you either have to resolve the champions wound or the normal troopers wounds, either way you miss the sergeant.
I don't see why not - see P15 'Mixed wounds'. In this case the Chaos Boon table is a special rule that applies to his shots - so its resolved separately, in the order the Chaos player chooses.
Or think of it another way - imagine you were firing a champion's plasma pistol and his CSM's boltguns at an power-armoured enemy squad with a terminator character. In that situation you would surely be holding back the plasma shot until you could allocate it to the enemy character - so why not do the same with your boltgun? The fact that it's exactly the same weapon as the rest of his squadmates doesn't matter in the least.
In fact now that I think about it that's a pretty good argument for taking a combi-flamer! That will get you loads of hits on an enemy unit, thus plenty of chances to take out the enemy character and get a roll on the table and Princehood (or spawnhood)...
I think you can hold back his bolt pistol/ bolter or whatever as it is different. I dont think you can split the 2 regular trooper wounds into 1 and 1, putting the champions wound inbetween.
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Dark Mechanicus and Renegade Iron Hand Dakka Blog
My Dark Mechanicus P&M Blog. Mostly Modeling as I paint very slowly. Lots of kitbashed conversions of marines and a few guard to make up a renegade Iron Hand chapter and Dark Mechanicus Allies. Bionics++ |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/11/05 20:21:57
Subject: Re:Making the ost of the Choas Boon table
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Nurgle Veteran Marine with the Flu
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I would like to humbly disagree with the above posters. I think you should try to get rolls on the table. In my few games in 6th with Chaos, I have found that the Boon table is NEVER bad. I have rolled Spawn twice... from Champions from my PM and CSM squads respectively! It was an upgrade! Sure, I suppose that my Daemon Prince could turn into a spawn, but hey, thems the breaks. The way I ensure I roll on that table as often as possible is always spend the 10 points and get it on as many guys as I can before the game starts.
This last game I played versus Grey Knights, I rolled "Multiple Boons" for my Daemon Prince of Tzeentch before the game, giving him Instant Death, Fleshbane, Improved Armor and Adamantium Will. We did a little math that with Daemon of Tzeentch and Improved Armor, he had to fire some 110 ST5 Stormbolter shots to cause ONE WOUND on my dude from that point. I know that 1/6th of the time nothing of note happens, but man, it can be totally sweet.
Other stuff that game, pregame, my Lord on a bike gets Eternal Warrior. Bonus!
Go for it! It is SO much fun rolling on that chart. And fun is the name of the game.
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Fly Molo of Dark Future Gaming!
http://darkfuturegaming.blogspot.com/ |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/11/05 20:28:51
Subject: Re:Making the ost of the Choas Boon table
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Hellacious Havoc
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Brymm wrote:I would like to humbly disagree with the above posters. I think you should try to get rolls on the table. In my few games in 6th with Chaos, I have found that the Boon table is NEVER bad. I have rolled Spawn twice... from Champions from my PM and CSM squads respectively! It was an upgrade! Sure, I suppose that my Daemon Prince could turn into a spawn, but hey, thems the breaks. The way I ensure I roll on that table as often as possible is always spend the 10 points and get it on as many guys as I can before the game starts.
This last game I played versus Grey Knights, I rolled "Multiple Boons" for my Daemon Prince of Tzeentch before the game, giving him Instant Death, Fleshbane, Improved Armor and Adamantium Will. We did a little math that with Daemon of Tzeentch and Improved Armor, he had to fire some 110 ST5 Stormbolter shots to cause ONE WOUND on my dude from that point. I know that 1/6th of the time nothing of note happens, but man, it can be totally sweet.
Other stuff that game, pregame, my Lord on a bike gets Eternal Warrior. Bonus!
Go for it! It is SO much fun rolling on that chart. And fun is the name of the game.
Actually, DPs don't have the Champion of Chaos rule, so they can't get spawned (since iirc Gift = reroll spawn and DP).
I've had the opposite experience. I've had exactly 2 useful rolls on the boon table over the course of 4 games with the new codex (and 1 game against a grot swarm army, so I was getting a LOT of rolls). Most of the time, it's been stuff like EW on 1-wound Champs or Fleshbane vs. Grots.
On the other hand, one of the spawn results I got was actually good for me, as it allowed my Lord-spawn to tie up a pair of Killa Kans for a turn, keeping them off an objective.
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Necroshea wrote:You - You there, wolf heathen! I long for combat!
Wolf heathen - I accept your challenge, but only on my terms! 250% points for me!
You - Ha! You've activated my trap card! Allied army! Come forth to assist!
Friend - Sup
Wolf Heathen - An equal point match?! This is not acceptable! Tau friend! Form up on me!
And then some guy throws a manta at the table and promptly breaks it in half sending figures and terrain everywhere. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/11/05 20:43:48
Subject: Re:Making the ost of the Choas Boon table
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Stone Bonkers Fabricator General
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codemonkey wrote:
Actually, DPs don't have the Champion of Chaos rule, so they can't get spawned (since iirc Gift = reroll spawn and DP).
I've had the opposite experience. I've had exactly 2 useful rolls on the boon table over the course of 4 games with the new codex (and 1 game against a grot swarm army, so I was getting a LOT of rolls). Most of the time, it's been stuff like EW on 1-wound Champs or Fleshbane vs. Grots.
On the other hand, one of the spawn results I got was actually good for me, as it allowed my Lord-spawn to tie up a pair of Killa Kans for a turn, keeping them off an objective.
yes there is an interesting question on how units without Champion of Chaos deal with the tzeench spell that rolls on the boon table. Can fateweaver be turned into a spawn or a DP?
overall though the rolls add character but rarely add value. Considering the cost you pay tactically being forced to take champions and accept and make challenges it really is a huge nerf to chaos. (that helldrake shenagins hopefully will make up)
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Dark Mechanicus and Renegade Iron Hand Dakka Blog
My Dark Mechanicus P&M Blog. Mostly Modeling as I paint very slowly. Lots of kitbashed conversions of marines and a few guard to make up a renegade Iron Hand chapter and Dark Mechanicus Allies. Bionics++ |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/11/05 20:53:35
Subject: Re:Making the ost of the Choas Boon table
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Nurgle Veteran Marine with the Flu
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Ah yes, thats true about Champion of Chaos. For some odd reason, I knew he didn't have to challenge or accept because he didn't have it, but it did not translate to me that I didn't roll on the table if I killed a character. Ah well, so the only way for a Prince to roll on it was with Gift, which is what I did use.
I don't think its a huge nerf to have to fight in a challenge. I found that I usually want to challenge anyhow, and since I am usually a bigger threat in CC than they are, I'm okay with it. I haven't come across the scenario yet where I haven't wanted to fight a challenge when I was in close combat. It either makes the guy that is a threat hide, or it kills the guy thats a threat. I don't see the issue here  Sure, you might run into Draigo or some tooled up Wolf Lord, but I mean, come on, if you want the Dark Gods' rewards, then you need to do something awesome, like kill Draigo or a Wolf Lord. Make them afraid of you!
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Fly Molo of Dark Future Gaming!
http://darkfuturegaming.blogspot.com/ |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/11/05 20:58:47
Subject: Re:Making the ost of the Choas Boon table
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Stone Bonkers Fabricator General
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Brymm wrote:Ah yes, thats true about Champion of Chaos. For some odd reason, I knew he didn't have to challenge or accept because he didn't have it, but it did not translate to me that I didn't roll on the table if I killed a character. Ah well, so the only way for a Prince to roll on it was with Gift, which is what I did use.
I don't think its a huge nerf to have to fight in a challenge. I found that I usually want to challenge anyhow, and since I am usually a bigger threat in CC than they are, I'm okay with it. I haven't come across the scenario yet where I haven't wanted to fight a challenge when I was in close combat. It either makes the guy that is a threat hide, or it kills the guy thats a threat. I don't see the issue here  Sure, you might run into Draigo or some tooled up Wolf Lord, but I mean, come on, if you want the Dark Gods' rewards, then you need to do something awesome, like kill Draigo or a Wolf Lord. Make them afraid of you!
perhaps they should modify it slightly. If you kill a unit champion you roll as normal. If you kill an HQ you can add(or subtract) 1 to one of the dice, if you kill a named HQ you can add 1 to both dice!
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Dark Mechanicus and Renegade Iron Hand Dakka Blog
My Dark Mechanicus P&M Blog. Mostly Modeling as I paint very slowly. Lots of kitbashed conversions of marines and a few guard to make up a renegade Iron Hand chapter and Dark Mechanicus Allies. Bionics++ |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/11/06 12:30:37
Subject: Making the ost of the Choas Boon table
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Dakka Veteran
Reading - UK
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I have to agree with Brymm.
The Boon table is actually pretty sweet, even if you turn into a spawn. Those things kick ass, especially when they retain the mark and Nurgle means toughness 6, try shifting that thing in combat or shooting.
Otherwise the traits are all benificial, there is no bad in my eyes. As it becomes standard to buy default squads including a character it makes the Boon table even more useful.
This could be a viable troop choice build:
5 CSM, 1 Melta
Champ Chain Axe/Combi Plasma
Rhino.
138 Points
x4 = 552
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/11/06 12:31:16
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/11/06 13:02:41
Subject: Making the ost of the Choas Boon table
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Devestating Grey Knight Dreadknight
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L0rdF1end wrote:I have to agree with Brymm.
The Boon table is actually pretty sweet, even if you turn into a spawn. Those things kick ass, especially when they retain the mark and Nurgle means toughness 6, try shifting that thing in combat or shooting.
Otherwise the traits are all benificial, there is no bad in my eyes.
Then you should take off the rose-tinted glasses and look properly, because the chances of getting something that's actually useful to you are small. Just going through them:
- Unworthy Offering; never good.
- Spawnhood; completely dependant on what turns into said Spawn.
- Warp Frenzy; good, but of no benefit if you are never going to charge or be in assault, such as a Havoc Champion.
- Fragment of Immortality; the best single result on the table arguably, and yet it is still useless for most of the models that can get it (1W).
- Strength of the Berserker; see Warp Frenzy.
- Arcane Occulum; like Frenzy and Strength it is good, but some models will get little to no use out of it, and it certainly won't win you any games. Some load-outs for characters will make it completely useless also.
- Cerebral Cogitator; see Warp Frenzy. Also won't matter if playing against most non-Marine armies who will be slower than you regardless.
- Bloated; the first result so far that is always good.
- Crystaline Body; another all round good result.
- Shield of Force; good most of the time, situatonal for characters in unit, but still usually beneficial.
- Mechanoid; always good, though can be mitigated sometimes.
- Blade of Chaos; see Warp Frenzy. Also certain builds make this completely redundant.
- Witch-eater; only useful against armies with targeted psychic powers, and it still is a 1 in 6 chance only of working.
- Cosmic Fate; see Mechanoid.
- Venomous; see Warp Frenzy.
- Unholy Crusader; this one is odd as it can actually mess with the usefulness of other boons if you put it to use.
- Metoric Charge; see Warp Frenzy.
- Icy Aura; see Warp Frenzy. Requires the model to survive also.
- Mind of Metal; always good.
- Gun Morph; see Arcane Occulum (though this one could potentially win you a game in the perfect circumstances).
- All-consuming Hatred; see Warp Frenzy.
- Warp Claws; see Warp Frenzy.
- Lifetaker; see Warp Frenzy.
- Blademaster; see Warp Frenzy.
- Voice of Horus; always good.
- Temporal Distortion; good, though will only be able to use it when running solo or with a unit that also has Fleet.
- Masochism; always good.
- Multiple Boons; usually good, depends on what you roll next.
- Dark Apotheosis; depends on what turns into him.
There's one word that bst ums up the boon table; situational. As a added note, most of the situations are that you are in combat and that the particular stat actually matters. For instance, fighting regular Marines your Chaos Lord gets no added benefit from getting +1WS or +1I. The other issue is the prevelance of shooting in 40k over combat, meaning in order to make the boons somewhat reliable you have to build out a dedicated combat list; this is going to be at a disadvantage to all the gunlines that are doinating 6th edition, and could still fall prey to he wrong situational buff, ass outlined above.
The key to working out a good tactic or strategy is not to look at the upsides, but to look at the downsides. Eveyrthingin this game usually has quite a few upsides, but the quantity and/or the magnitude that the downsides offset against these positives are what determine if it is tactically adept. The boon table is situational and random, and those are facts, and while on occasion you get the perfect boon and it wins you the game, it doesn't change the facts. The first thing any competitive player will tell you is to take as much randomness out of things as possible; more control over your army is better. At this rate there is no denying the boon table is fun, and has some potential, but then we are no longer having a tactical debate, but rather a discussion in enjoyment. By all means, use the boons to your full advantage, but don't spend tens of points getting random rolls for champions, and more than that on Sorcerers with a bad discipline in a hope to get a spell for more boons. If you take it as a bonus they can rarely lead you wrong, but if you take them at the helm, they will lead you astray more often than not.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/11/06 13:22:00
Subject: Making the Most of the Choas Boon table
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Dakka Veteran
Reading - UK
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Good informative post above.
I'm in no way suggesting that you could rely on the Boon table but it's also pointless to write it off.
You have a high number of good results listed above and yes some are situational.
"If you take it as a bonus they can rarely lead you wrong, but if you take them at the helm, they will lead you astray more often than not".
I agree completely, its an added benefit that could aid you. Don't build to it specifically but also considering you have to challenge it's worth noting this point and winning the challenge is clearly desirable.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/11/06 13:25:56
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/11/06 13:26:02
Subject: Making the ost of the Choas Boon table
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Stone Bonkers Fabricator General
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Godless-Mimicry wrote: L0rdF1end wrote:I have to agree with Brymm.
The Boon table is actually pretty sweet, even if you turn into a spawn. Those things kick ass, especially when they retain the mark and Nurgle means toughness 6, try shifting that thing in combat or shooting.
Otherwise the traits are all benificial, there is no bad in my eyes.
Then you should take off the rose-tinted glasses and look properly, because the chances of getting something that's actually useful to you are small. Just going through them:
- Unworthy Offering; never good.
- Spawnhood; completely dependant on what turns into said Spawn.
- Warp Frenzy; good, but of no benefit if you are never going to charge or be in assault, such as a Havoc Champion.
- Fragment of Immortality; the best single result on the table arguably, and yet it is still useless for most of the models that can get it (1W).
- Strength of the Berserker; see Warp Frenzy.
- Arcane Occulum; like Frenzy and Strength it is good, but some models will get little to no use out of it, and it certainly won't win you any games. Some load-outs for characters will make it completely useless also.
- Cerebral Cogitator; see Warp Frenzy. Also won't matter if playing against most non-Marine armies who will be slower than you regardless.
- Bloated; the first result so far that is always good.
- Crystaline Body; another all round good result.
- Shield of Force; good most of the time, situatonal for characters in unit, but still usually beneficial.
- Mechanoid; always good, though can be mitigated sometimes.
- Blade of Chaos; see Warp Frenzy. Also certain builds make this completely redundant.
- Witch-eater; only useful against armies with targeted psychic powers, and it still is a 1 in 6 chance only of working.
- Cosmic Fate; see Mechanoid.
- Venomous; see Warp Frenzy.
- Unholy Crusader; this one is odd as it can actually mess with the usefulness of other boons if you put it to use.
- Metoric Charge; see Warp Frenzy.
- Icy Aura; see Warp Frenzy. Requires the model to survive also.
- Mind of Metal; always good.
- Gun Morph; see Arcane Occulum (though this one could potentially win you a game in the perfect circumstances).
- All-consuming Hatred; see Warp Frenzy.
- Warp Claws; see Warp Frenzy.
- Lifetaker; see Warp Frenzy.
- Blademaster; see Warp Frenzy.
- Voice of Horus; always good.
- Temporal Distortion; good, though will only be able to use it when running solo or with a unit that also has Fleet.
- Masochism; always good.
- Multiple Boons; usually good, depends on what you roll next.
- Dark Apotheosis; depends on what turns into him.
There's one word that bst ums up the boon table; situational. As a added note, most of the situations are that you are in combat and that the particular stat actually matters. For instance, fighting regular Marines your Chaos Lord gets no added benefit from getting +1WS or +1I. The other issue is the prevelance of shooting in 40k over combat, meaning in order to make the boons somewhat reliable you have to build out a dedicated combat list; this is going to be at a disadvantage to all the gunlines that are doinating 6th edition, and could still fall prey to he wrong situational buff, ass outlined above.
The key to working out a good tactic or strategy is not to look at the upsides, but to look at the downsides. Eveyrthingin this game usually has quite a few upsides, but the quantity and/or the magnitude that the downsides offset against these positives are what determine if it is tactically adept. The boon table is situational and random, and those are facts, and while on occasion you get the perfect boon and it wins you the game, it doesn't change the facts. The first thing any competitive player will tell you is to take as much randomness out of things as possible; more control over your army is better. At this rate there is no denying the boon table is fun, and has some potential, but then we are no longer having a tactical debate, but rather a discussion in enjoyment. By all means, use the boons to your full advantage, but don't spend tens of points getting random rolls for champions, and more than that on Sorcerers with a bad discipline in a hope to get a spell for more boons. If you take it as a bonus they can rarely lead you wrong, but if you take them at the helm, they will lead you astray more often than not.
you have underestimated shield of force. Shrouded transferes from one model to the whole unit so it is AWESOME.
I did a post a while back looking at how many of these would be worth the 10 point investment in the wargear option. Sadly even if you could pick which one you wanted I only think 1/6 is worth 10 points and very few are worth more.
Unfortuneatly this is like Soul Blaze. It adds a little character by adding a lot of book keeping and random die rolling. It makes the game longer and more tedious but ooo it adds story line so we most have it!
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Dark Mechanicus and Renegade Iron Hand Dakka Blog
My Dark Mechanicus P&M Blog. Mostly Modeling as I paint very slowly. Lots of kitbashed conversions of marines and a few guard to make up a renegade Iron Hand chapter and Dark Mechanicus Allies. Bionics++ |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/11/06 16:28:11
Subject: Making the Most of the Choas Boon table
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Morphing Obliterator
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I'm on the don't rely on the table band. Just as in fantasy you can't trust the dark gods they will usually give you worthless crap and once in a while an awesome gift. I lost all faith when abaddon turned into a daemon prince after killing my enemy's HQ. The game was won by then but it was sad losing 100 pts on a model
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CSM 10k points
IG 3k points
Orks 2k points
WoC 3.5k points
VC 2.5k points
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/11/06 17:37:52
Subject: Re:Making the Most of the Choas Boon table
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Dakka Veteran
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Shouldn't the fact that so many of those results are only good in close combat suggest that... maybe you should be in close combat?
If that's not your playstyle, of course you won't like the boon table.
Also, for the +1 initiative, that is good against everyone, not just Marines, due to the changes in Sweeping Advance.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/11/06 19:53:20
Subject: Re:Making the Most of the Choas Boon table
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Devestating Grey Knight Dreadknight
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somerandomdude wrote:Shouldn't the fact that so many of those results are only good in close combat suggest that... maybe you should be in close combat?
But that's the problem; by the very nature of the 6th edition rules, shooting is more powerful than assault.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/11/06 22:00:01
Subject: Making the Most of the Choas Boon table
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Liche Priest Hierophant
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Take a dark apostel in a possessed squad. Best chances of getting something out of it. (Possessed are melee and they can have 2 boons and the dark apostel fits OK with them and he lets you re-roll the boons.)
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/11/06 22:08:44
Subject: Making the Most of the Choas Boon table
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Devestating Grey Knight Dreadknight
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Niiai wrote:Take a dark apostel in a possessed squad. Best chances of getting something out of it. (Possessed are melee and they can have 2 boons and the dark apostel fits OK with them and he lets you re-roll the boons.)
Best way to get something out of the boons, but it's a terrible squad.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/11/06 22:22:57
Subject: Making the Most of the Choas Boon table
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Stone Bonkers Fabricator General
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Niiai wrote:Take a dark apostel in a possessed squad. Best chances of getting something out of it. (Possessed are melee and they can have 2 boons and the dark apostel fits OK with them and he lets you re-roll the boons.)
better would be to put a DA with some warp talons who can also take 2 boons and are flat better than possessed. Then you can first turn detach the DA and have him join some cultists.
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Dark Mechanicus and Renegade Iron Hand Dakka Blog
My Dark Mechanicus P&M Blog. Mostly Modeling as I paint very slowly. Lots of kitbashed conversions of marines and a few guard to make up a renegade Iron Hand chapter and Dark Mechanicus Allies. Bionics++ |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/11/06 22:40:01
Subject: Making the Most of the Choas Boon table
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Devestating Grey Knight Dreadknight
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Exergy wrote: Niiai wrote:Take a dark apostel in a possessed squad. Best chances of getting something out of it. (Possessed are melee and they can have 2 boons and the dark apostel fits OK with them and he lets you re-roll the boons.)
better would be to put a DA with some warp talons who can also take 2 boons and are flat better than possessed. Then you can first turn detach the DA and have him join some cultists.
Not by much they're not. 30pts a pop with no guns and a counter-intuative ability? Not in 6th edition I'm afraid. Especially when they compete with Bikes, Spawn, and Drakes.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/11/06 23:40:48
Subject: Making the Most of the Choas Boon table
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Liche Priest Hierophant
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Possessed have exelent moddels. I have not tryed them but they look kick ass.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/11/07 01:23:09
Subject: Making the Most of the Choas Boon table
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Devestating Grey Knight Dreadknight
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While true, that's not a tactical discussion, however this thread is supposed to be.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/11/07 03:17:20
Subject: Making the Most of the Choas Boon table
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Stone Bonkers Fabricator General
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Godless-Mimicry wrote: Exergy wrote: Niiai wrote:Take a dark apostel in a possessed squad. Best chances of getting something out of it. (Possessed are melee and they can have 2 boons and the dark apostel fits OK with them and he lets you re-roll the boons.)
better would be to put a DA with some warp talons who can also take 2 boons and are flat better than possessed. Then you can first turn detach the DA and have him join some cultists.
Not by much they're not. 30pts a pop with no guns and a counter-intuative ability? Not in 6th edition I'm afraid. Especially when they compete with Bikes, Spawn, and Drakes.
compared to possessed, Warp talons ALWAYS get ap3 and shred, have the same save, the same attacks, WS, same lack of grenades and cost 4 points more. They move twice as fast though so they dont need a landraider to get into combat. As for taking up a FA instead of a Elite, yes they are both terrible choices. The way the codex looks you should be maxing FA and HS have some troops and an HQ. Once you get there you may as well get another force org instead of going for elites it is true.
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Dark Mechanicus and Renegade Iron Hand Dakka Blog
My Dark Mechanicus P&M Blog. Mostly Modeling as I paint very slowly. Lots of kitbashed conversions of marines and a few guard to make up a renegade Iron Hand chapter and Dark Mechanicus Allies. Bionics++ |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/11/07 03:24:00
Subject: Making the Most of the Choas Boon table
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Khorne Chosen Marine Riding a Juggernaut
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Just to remind that if, even getting the Dark Apotheosis on a regular Champ or even on a Cultist Champ can be nice, its a total waste when you play a buffed out Lord or Named Character.
i mean in all the cases the Transformed DP is worse then the original Lord...
Loose his wargear, rules and stuff, is not even flying, no way to equip it.
In the case of lets say abbadon, Kharn and Arhiman, they become waaaaaay worse once changed into a DP then when they where mortals!!, that makes no sens!
So in place of trying to avoid the One bad result(spawnhood) you end up praying to avoid 2 bad results(spawnhood and Deamonhood).
I mean Abby is waaay more badass then a DP, he got a 2+/4++ save EW, Ap1 and 3, x2 S, shred weapons, and if he is finally rewarded with the final ultimate reward, he gets worse?...
They really dropped the darn thing with this...
But apart for that, i like the Boons, got a few times Multiple Boons on Kharn and having 4 Boons after a duel is really nice, specialy when you manage to get Shred, +1 Save, +1 T and +1 W.
But they really need to fix the Dp transformation for Named Chars.
or they keep their rules and wargear, and see their profil and unit type change.
or they simply reroll the darn thing.
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