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As mentioned in a previous thread, i recently came into possession of some long lost goods, and I have an opportunity to expand my forces.

My fifth edition army contained 1 platoon. It's loadout was as follows: a PCS with 4x Flamer in a Chimera, a 20 man blob with a vox, 2xAC and 2xGL, and then 2 vanilla guard squads to ride around in my vendettas to be last minute objective holders/deniers.

Now that the rules have changed the flying scoring unit thing is out (unless I am mistaken) so I am planning on creating a second platoon and giving them the standard AC/GL combo like the first 20 guys, and adding a gunline style PCS to my collection. So the question is, what is the best type of gear loadout for a PCS that would typically sit behind the line giving orders?

I am leaning towards a Vox, a mortar/AC team and a flamer for last ditch counter charge/Overwatch.

Let me know what you think, oh God's of glorious battle.

Why are flying scoring squads out?

And 4x Flamers on a PCS in a flyer is awesome. Try it.

Its not that they are out completely, i just feel like maybe my melta vets are more suited to flying around since they have to disembark to capture objectives.

A 10 man guard squad with no upgrades that has to disembark to be any use is not a particularly strong unit.

Scippio Martinez wrote:So the question is, what is the best type of gear loadout for a PCS that would typically sit behind the line giving orders?

The only setup I've had that has come remotely close to satisfying in this role is to give them a lascannon and nothing else. Nothing else really does enough damage, especially since PCSs are fragile, and your opponent is likely going to be targeting them early. If they're only likely to get a couple of turns on the table, make those turns count.

Or, as the captain says, give them 4 flamers and stick them in a flier. The only problem is that the rest of the platoon will have to go in reserves, but if it's just a couple of low-upgrade PISs, then this isn't much of a deal.

Other than that, over a myriad of different combinations I've tried and seen, pretty much the rest of them are just crummy. The PCS shows up, throws around a run order or two, and then dies unceremoniously.

I find the PCS to be frustrating because of its BS3.
Take advantage of the fact that the PCS can get 4 special weapons and is crazy cheap. Considering the low BS, I almost always get 4xFlamer or 4xGrenade Launcher. The GL's are sneaky in that they can really help vs hordes and occasionally can glance a vehicle. Worth it for a 55pt squad.

 Ailaros wrote:

Or, as the captain says, give them 4 flamers and stick them in a flier. The only problem is that the rest of the platoon will have to go in reserves

Not quite true, if they're in a non-dedicated transport that has to be in reserve (read flier) they're rolled for separately. This lets you deploy your PISs on the table and keep the pyro-PCS in reserve to be dropped on an appropriate target.

And it's only Al Rahems platoon that everything has to be in reserve.

So, this is what you're referencing

“Each Infantry Platoon is deployed in place
of a single unit in missions that limit the number units
that can be deployed. In addition when making a
reserve or outflanking roll, roll once for the whole
Infantry Platoon. Any units in reserve that are
embarked upon a non-dedicated transport are instead
rolled for separately.”

Yes, you roll for different units within a platoon differently if parts of the platoon are a part of a non-dedicated transport. This does not, however, grant you the ability to start with part of your platoon in reserves, and part of your platoon on the board. The platoon is treated as a single unit, and has to be deployed that way. The only exception is if a part of it is in a ride, then the reserves rolls are done slightly different.

You do bring up al'rahem, though, and that's the other way I've gotten PCSs to work. al'rahem with 3 or 4 meltaguns and bring it down has slagged many a target in my day. That is, before my opponents started getting wiser.

I love Al'rahem. 4 Melta and a chimera.
Even if it's just for the look on my opponents face when a chimera, a couple of infantry squads and a SWS with a demo charge waltz onto the table. The fact he has BID is just awesome. I've never really managed to get much out of Like The Wind though, if it was 2d6 then we'd be talkin'!

Edit: I guess I just noticed the reason why I hate Harker. 1 squad isn't enough in my opinion. A whole platoon really shifts the direction of the game whereas the vets are stuck in cover or they get slaughtered.

 Griddlelol wrote:
Edit: I guess I just noticed the reason why I hate Harker. 1 squad isn't enough in my opinion. A whole platoon really shifts the direction of the game whereas the vets are stuck in cover or they get slaughtered.

I've had good success with him and his squad in a Chimera. But then again I also run Al'Rahem, sometimes Marbo, a Vendetta and I'm adding an allied Dominion Squad to my army, so half of my force usually arrives on Turn Two.

I actually had great success infiltrating Harker's squad into a ruin with camo cloaks.

All the sudden my opponent had a squad of vets with a heavy bolter and plasma guns with +2 saves hanging out in the middle of the board harrassing him all game. And he couldn't really assault them because they were on the 3rd floor of a building.

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
I actually had great success infiltrating Harker's squad into a ruin with camo cloaks.

All the sudden my opponent had a squad of vets with a heavy bolter and plasma guns with +2 saves hanging out in the middle of the board harrassing him all game. And he couldn't really assault them because they were on the 3rd floor of a building.

Hmm...I play with a lot of ruins at my FLGS. Just might have to give that a shot.

If you give it a try, may as well throw a lascannon on the little boogers then, just to make your opponent REALLY hate them.

Of course, you're spending 220pts on these guys at that point, but to be fair, they're 10 dudes with a 2+ cover save spitting out a lot of death at anything that comes near them.

As for the PCS question, lascannon or autocannon and that's it. Autocannon only if I have to shave 10pts elsewhere.

Everything else just leads to them dying horribly.

MrMoustaffa wrote:Of course, you're spending 220pts on these guys at that point, but to be fair, they're 10 dudes with a 2+ cover save spitting out a lot of death at anything that comes near them.

And that's really the problem. For the price of a vet squad, 3x meltaguns, a lascannon, camo cloaks, and harker I can get an infantry platoon with a lascannon PCS and two lascannon+meltagun PISs.

In this case, harker isn't totally out of his league, as he still gets to outflank and infiltrate, but we're talking about a lot you can take in a troops slot with his points if you pass on him.

Doesn't harker's catachan devils ability already give them stealth? So getting the camo cloak doctrine would not add anything would it?

 Dannyevilguy wrote:
Doesn't harker's catachan devils ability already give them stealth? So getting the camo cloak doctrine would not add anything would it?

Camo cloaks got FAQ'd so that they no longer give stealth, but instead just add +1 to your cover save. This stacks with Harker's stealth.

Well dang. Time to green stuff some camocloaks on those suckers then.
Again.
I need to give in and just buy new models instead of stripping and repainting my army all the time.

PCS bs3 is lame, so if i take them i always go 3 Flamers 1 HVY flamer, make them run closely behind my chimy vets to keep them out of LOS untill they reach a target.

People usually dont expect or notice the Hvy flamer also!

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
If you give it a try, may as well throw a lascannon on the little boogers then, just to make your opponent REALLY hate them.
Of course, you're spending 220pts on these guys at that point, but to be fair, they're 10 dudes with a 2+ cover save spitting out a lot of death at anything that comes near them.
As for the PCS question, lascannon or autocannon and that's it. Autocannon only if I have to shave 10pts elsewhere.
Everything else just leads to them dying horribly.

I go with harker, cloaks, heavy bolter and grenade launcher x3. 180 points. 6 S5 shots and 3 S6 shots (or S3 blasts). It's a decent amount of fire power for the points, and with cloaks and stealth, pretty survivable.
Place them midfield and elevated. It seems to be just enough firepower to be effective, but survivable enough to take in coming shots. It hits a sweet spot where it can't be totally ignored, and it is a pain to deal with.

-Matt

 Diezel wrote:
PCS bs3 is lame, so if i take them i always go 3 Flamers 1 HVY flamer, make them run closely behind my chimy vets to keep them out of LOS untill they reach a target.

People usually dont expect or notice the Hvy flamer also!

heavy flamers cost too much.

Personally I like:

4 flamers

Single ac, cheap long range squad.

4 melta, averages the same # of hits as melta vets.

 Diezel wrote:
People usually dont expect or notice the Hvy flamer also!

Because its awful and a waste of points?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ailaros wrote:
So, this is what you're referencing

“Each Infantry Platoon is deployed in place
of a single unit in missions that limit the number units
that can be deployed. In addition when making a
reserve or outflanking roll, roll once for the whole
Infantry Platoon. Any units in reserve that are
embarked upon a non-dedicated transport are instead
rolled for separately.”

Yes, you roll for different units within a platoon differently if parts of the platoon are a part of a non-dedicated transport. This does not, however, grant you the ability to start with part of your platoon in reserves, and part of your platoon on the board. The platoon is treated as a single unit, and has to be deployed that way. The only exception is if a part of it is in a ride, then the reserves rolls are done slightly different.

Kindof YMDC actually. It says they are deployed in a single unit IN MISSIONS that limit the number of units that can be deployed. (I don't think we have any of those).

It goes on to tell you that when making a reserve or outflank roll, roll once for the whole platoon. Though it says this "In addition" referring to the previous statement of in missions that limit the number of units that can be deployed.

So if you actually get called on it, you can say "Well RAW the platoon's units are only treated as a single unit in missions that limit the number of units that I can deploy".

Hmmm no mention of Marbo yet in his thread.

 TheLionOfTheForest wrote:
Hmmm no mention of Marbo yet in his thread.

Don't force it.

 Ailaros wrote:
So, this is what you're referencing

“Each Infantry Platoon is deployed in place
of a single unit in missions that limit the number units
that can be deployed. In addition when making a
reserve or outflanking roll, roll once for the whole
Infantry Platoon. Any units in reserve that are
embarked upon a non-dedicated transport are instead
rolled for separately.”

Yes, you roll for different units within a platoon differently if parts of the platoon are a part of a non-dedicated transport. This does not, however, grant you the ability to start with part of your platoon in reserves, and part of your platoon on the board. The platoon is treated as a single unit, and has to be deployed that way. The only exception is if a part of it is in a ride, then the reserves rolls are done slightly different.

You do bring up al'rahem, though, and that's the other way I've gotten PCSs to work. al'rahem with 3 or 4 meltaguns and bring it down has slagged many a target in my day. That is, before my opponents started getting wiser.

Then units embarked in a flying transport allow their flying transport to deploy with the rest of the platoon, or the flyer rule overrides normal platoon deployment and forces the embarked squad into reserves. Things then turn into a circular argument, and a to is needed because the raw is very conflicted.

Or you only have a conflict where there needs to be a conflict.

The whole platoon goes in reserves or it does not go in reserves. While in reserves, any member of a platoon can have independent characters join their squads, or units can be put in rides (along with other reservesey kinds of things).

Now, you WOULD have a problem with a vendetta coming in, but the platoon not being ready yet, or vice versa, except we have a special rule that specifically solves this problem - a unit in a ride rolls with the ride.

As for the niggly little wording, this is from the codex, not an FAQ, and was written for a different rules edition. Clearly, though, the intent of the rule is for an entire infantry platoon to count as a single entity for the purposes of reserves.

You guys (Ailaros and Peregrine) need to take this IG debate to a podcast. I feel you could get so much more accomplished and TBH I would actually really like to listen to it. I may not always agree with each of you, but you guys ALWAYS make me stop and think. I also think that you need to have an IG vs IG showdown, best of 5.

 TheLionOfTheForest wrote:
You guys (Ailaros and Peregrine) need to take this IG debate to a podcast.

Lol. So I get credit for being part of a debate in a thread I never posted in?

/is Marbo

/is hiding everywhere

/tosses demo charge into thread

 Ailaros wrote:

As for the niggly little wording, this is from the codex, not an FAQ, and was written for a different rules edition. Clearly, though, the intent of the rule is for an entire infantry platoon to count as a single entity for the purposes of reserves.

but RAW kinda overrides RAI most of the time.

Well, this could quickly devolve into silly awfulness. For example, ALL games limit the number of units you can take to the number you brought, thus making said rule always applicable.

In the case of these old codex things that don't match up with a new edition's rules (and that hasn't been FAQed), then you need to apply at least a dollop of intent, or else you can get some pretty screwy stuff.