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 TheCaptain wrote:

syypher wrote:

To give Vendettas duality purposes, do you guys ever give them HBs?

Dual Purpose in the Guard Codex, he says...

Nah; Vendetta is a dedicated Lascannon Platform. If you don't have anything worth zapping with your lascannons, fly her off the board and back on next turn. Safer and more strategically reliable than spending an extra turn on the board maybe killing one dude with a HB.

10 points that could be spent elsewhere, Imho.

This. If I have nothing worth shooting a lascannon at, then I've tabled my opponent and the game is over. It might be overkill on some targets, but I can almost always find a problem that needs to be solved with 3 TLLCs. If I need to murder light infantry, I've got battlecannons, ranks of lasguns, multiple Chimeras, and a Griffon. Playing IG means never having to use the end of a screwdriver to pound a nail because you always have the points to bring the hammer.

DaddyWarcrimes wrote:
Playing IG means never having to use the end of a screwdriver to pound a nail because you always have the points to bring the hammer.

Love the analogy, brah. Perfect.

DaddyWarcrimes wrote:if I have nothing worth shooting a lascannon at, then I've tabled my opponent and the game is over.

... or it means you're up against a foot list, at which point you would be begging for the cheapest heavy bolters in the codex.

Seriously, 10 points is peanuts for being able to do more than irritate infantry. It even helps against some things the lascannons will be used against, like light vehicles and monstrous creatures.

 Ailaros wrote:
But he doesn't do it well against smart opponents, and he never does it efficiently. That's the problem.

We've been over this. It doesn't matter if you're a "smart opponent", there's no effective counter to Marbo in 6th. If you spread out every single vulnerable unit to 2" coherency to deny a target for the demo charge then I've just spent 65 points to force half your models out of cover where I can focus fire on them and kill far more than Marbo would have. And if you don't spread out like that it's still a very accurate demo charge that easily kills enough to justify its points.

 Griddlelol wrote:
So when my melta-gun toting vet kills 2 marines it's ok to let him die? I mean, he got his points back, and some. You can't measure a unit only by its ability to remove its points cost before it dies. Obviously that's a factor, but something that's so easy to remove is a one trick pony.

You don't just let the veteran die, because he has a unit of meatshields and it would be stupid to do so. But if you have a key vehicle target to melta off the table at the cost of leaving your unit in a vulnerable position where they'll probably die, you do it and accept that the unit did its job before it died. Marbo is just more of the same: you don't want him to die, but the cost of doing his job effectively is that he often dies from it, and he usually gets it done before dying.

 Ailaros wrote:

DaddyWarcrimes wrote:if I have nothing worth shooting a lascannon at, then I've tabled my opponent and the game is over.

... or it means you're up against a foot list, at which point you would be begging for the cheapest heavy bolters in the codex.

Seriously, 10 points is peanuts for being able to do more than irritate infantry. It even helps against some things the lascannons will be used against, like light vehicles and monstrous creatures.

It's a valid reason, but don't forget the awful firing arc on those heavy bolters. They can't shoot directly forward so you need an infantry target that covers a lot of area if you want to use both of them. A lot of the time you're stuck with just one bolter, which is why they're so cheap.

 Ailaros wrote:

DaddyWarcrimes wrote:if I have nothing worth shooting a lascannon at, then I've tabled my opponent and the game is over.

... or it means you're up against a foot list, at which point you would be begging for the cheapest heavy bolters in the codex.

Seriously, 10 points is peanuts for being able to do more than irritate infantry. It even helps against some things the lascannons will be used against, like light vehicles and monstrous creatures.

If I had a spare ten points, I'd bring them. I could see that being roughly handy, and if you're trying to shoot down a dakka jet or a FMC, who knows, you might just ding another wound.

Then again, when's the last time an IG player had 10pts spare in their list?

Peregrine wrote:If you spread out every single vulnerable unit to 2" coherency to deny a target for the demo charge then I've just spent 65 points to force half your models out of cover where I can focus fire on them and kill far more than Marbo would have. And if you don't spread out like that it's still a very accurate demo charge that easily kills enough to justify its points.

There is no way that you can guarantee that this will be true. Just because I have stuff spread out does not mean that they are necessarily out of cover from the rest of your army. For one easy example, it's not too hard to displace behind an aegis in such a way where marbo gets at most 3 hits, and the whole army is still behind 4+ cover for the rest.

And "very accurate" does not mean "always hits".

Peregrine wrote:It's a valid reason, but don't forget the awful firing arc on those heavy bolters. They can't shoot directly forward so you need an infantry target that covers a lot of area if you want to use both of them. A lot of the time you're stuck with just one bolter, which is why they're so cheap.

Sure. Still nice insurance, though.

 MrMoustaffa wrote:

 Ailaros wrote:

DaddyWarcrimes wrote:if I have nothing worth shooting a lascannon at, then I've tabled my opponent and the game is over.

... or it means you're up against a foot list, at which point you would be begging for the cheapest heavy bolters in the codex.

Seriously, 10 points is peanuts for being able to do more than irritate infantry. It even helps against some things the lascannons will be used against, like light vehicles and monstrous creatures.

If I had a spare ten points, I'd bring them. I could see that being roughly handy, and if you're trying to shoot down a dakka jet or a FMC, who knows, you might just ding another wound.

Then again, when's the last time an IG player had 10pts spare in their list?

10 points means another meltagun or an autocannon. Just sayin'...

loner wrote:


10 points means another meltagun or an autocannon. Just sayin'...

Thissssssssss.

But if you're vendetta spamming, you probably aren't going to need many more meltaguns or autocannons.

I always find that over estimating your man power can be dangerous, what I mean is if you have a 30 man blob squad with commissar (of course), don't expect them to live forever. This could be because I only have a 30 man blob, 10 vets, company and platoon command squad as my infantry but I constantly find my blob dies quicker than expected and I am left with all bodies on the table. A quick summary then, there is no such thing as too many men, although your enemy may disagree with this

 Ailaros wrote:
But if you're vendetta spamming, you probably aren't going to need many more meltaguns or autocannons.

I mean, spamming is one thing, but I didn't think we were assuming spam was in effect.

 Peregrine wrote:

Marbo is just more of the same: you don't want him to die, but the cost of doing his job effectively is that he often dies from it, and he usually gets it done before dying.

That's my point - he's a one trick pony. That doesn't mean he's bad at what he does, it just means he has one use.

On the heavy bolter sponsons, I've never taken them. They just don't seem to mesh well with the role of the Vendetta, and as mentioned, it's rare you can fire both at one target.

End the discussion on Marbo now!

I'd much rather have seen an upgrade that let embarked troops fire from a Vendetta, rather than add a pair of sponson weapons that don't match the main guns. Then I could at least put a SWS with 3 sniper rifles in it t score some style points.

As for not having a worthy target for a Vendetta in a foot list, I beg to differ. Having the tool to hunt down and murder the CCS and the Platoon Command Squads, and double out Heavy Weapon Squads is quite helpful.

DaddyWarcrimes wrote:As for not having a worthy target for a Vendetta in a foot list, I beg to differ. Having the tool to hunt down and murder the CCS and the Platoon Command Squads, and double out Heavy Weapon Squads is quite helpful.

Firstly, not all horde players are guard players. Secondly, good luck digging infantry out of ruins cover with lascannons.

 TheLionOfTheForest wrote:
End the discussion on Marbo now!

This is like telling General Discussion to stop whining about Ward.

Good luck.

I dunno guys. I think Marbo could beat the dead horse more efficiently point-wise.

 kestril wrote:
I dunno guys. I think Marbo could beat the dead horse more efficiently point-wise.

What if the dead horse is a zombie rending pony?

Marbo could it do, he's the best at it.

Started another thread for Marbo talk:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/490403.page

Let's get back to general IG stuff.

 Trickstick wrote:

Let's get back to general IG stuff.

Imagine Marbo as an IG General

Lets talk about tanks with Camo Netting and an ADL.

I hear that having a line of A14 tanks with a 3+ cover save it kinda good... But is it actually worth the extra points for CN?

Even hellhounds sitting there, or artillery- it could be pretty solid if supported by infantry.

So if your making a gunline, with ADL, is camo netting worth the extra points?



Also, here is a little trick involving this that will catch MOST players off guard- Squad with 2 LR variants. Put one (which you gave Camo Netting) with its front touching the ADL. Put the other LR directly behind the first.
when shooting a vehicle squad, they MUST shoot the closest model first, which will have a 3++. And when it dies, they may not have a shot at all on the 2nd because of the front one blocking it completely if it is only Wrecked.

Best part is, vehicles in a squadron can shoot thru each other with no penalty, so you can in theory have a 3 russ squad in a straight line, and all can shoot thru each other- Dunno about you guys, but it will shock many people when they are frustrated they cant shoot your Executioner because the basic LRBT is sitting in front of it, then on your turn, it drops 5 Plaz plates thru your own tank... hehehe



Oh, and Marbo... figured I couldn't post in this thread without that word somewhere in the post... hahahaha

TheCaptain wrote:Imagine Marbo as an IG General

...

Wait. Who would win, him or Creed?

On the one hand, Creed is a strategic genius. On the other hand, Marbo would always be right behind Creed...

...


mind = blown

Btothefnrock wrote:So if your making a gunline, with ADL, is camo netting worth the extra points?

So, camo netting usually costs 20 points, and makes a tank 33% more survivable. As such, it would start making sense with any vehicle costing more than 80 points.

That said, there is plenty of stuff that ignores ADL's, like deepstrikers, outflankers, artillery, fliers and the like. Against these targets, you're basically just making them more expensive. Also, you have to consider the fact that in macro list building, those 80 points you're spending may be able to take a ragged number of left over points and allow you to fit another entire vehicle in there, which will rather increase the survivability as a whole more than the camo nets, while giving you more firepower to boot.

^ so lets say in a 1000 pt list. could it be worth it?

And of the things that "ignore ADL" you can take off deepstrikers and outflankers by plopping a few units around the tanks and using the wall to make a box instead of a straight line (that is if you know they are bringing DS or OF guys. Flyers- well, hopefully your QuadGun/Vindetta can take them out first. and Arty- unless your going IG on IG, hopefully it wont be an issue... haha

Btothefnrock wrote:
And when it dies, they may not have a shot at all on the 2nd because of the front one blocking it completely if it is only Wrecked.

It would block your LoS too though, as the wreck is not part of your squadron.

 Trickstick wrote:

Btothefnrock wrote:
And when it dies, they may not have a shot at all on the 2nd because of the front one blocking it completely if it is only Wrecked.

It would block your LoS too though, as the wreck is not part of your squadron.

Yes, on their turn. Then you move out from behind it up to the wall

 Ailaros wrote:

On the one hand, Creed is a strategic genius. On the other hand, Marbo would always be right behind Creed.

But there'd be a squadron of demolishers right behind Marbo, who is right behind Creed...

But marbo would be right behind the demolishers.

... who are outflanking marbo, who is right behind creed...

So Creed is in front of Marbo with Abbadon's arms.

Marbo is Behind Creed

Creed Has an Imperator Titan hiding behind Marbo

Marbo throws his Demo Charge, which scatters off to kill his own CCS offscreen

Imperator Titan fires at Marbo, who dies, revealing he was Lucius the Eternal the Whole time.

Real Marbo pops up behind the Imperator, but is killed by Draigo.


Draigo > Everything else in existence.

To bring it back on topic: What do people think of Chenkov and conscripts with SITNW?