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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/14 04:53:55
Subject: Re:Through the Breach - Malifaux RPG Kickstarter Breakdown of Funds & 6 Through the Breach Source Books
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Mutating Changebringer
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Some of the things on the list are honestly just silly.
$25,000 (from $175,000-200,000) to develop the "Creature catalogue[sic]"? Which apparently doesn't contain the stats for the models from their skirmish game? (As that comes another $25,000 later...).
In the fine print they say they plan the line to have 8 books total. Okay, so... all of those are coming after $300,000? Are being developed now? Eh?
At $75,000 they have "2x Writers" for the Almanac, but it takes $100,000 to get them to work on the FM book?
There is a constant drumbeat on their forums about how they're "putting all the money back into the product", but... c'mon. So they can't write two complete 228 page books for $200,000? Do these writers get paid by the word or something? They need $250,000 to finish two books?
The only way that chart really makes sense is if they looked at people comparing their KS unfavorably to Numenera and simply cribbed some numbers from it. Every $50,000 the pages in the books just increase by 28. It's not even related to features they claim are going in, they just go up.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/14 05:14:08
Subject: Re:Through the Breach - Malifaux RPG Kickstarter Breakdown of Funds & 6 Through the Breach Source Books
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Using Object Source Lighting
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Buzzsaw wrote:There is a constant drumbeat on their forums about how they're "putting all the money back into the product", but... c'mon. So they can't write two complete 228 page books for $200,000? Do these writers get paid by the word or something? They need $250,000 to finish two books?
I mostly agree with you, but books cost a lot of money, they really do. Especially with a lot of staff, illustrations, etc. If that's how much it'll cost, it's fine, in my opinion. Printing alone is going to be a huge chunk of that-- a short run of 200+page full color could easily run $20 ea. for printing alone (though Wyrd would be doing longer runs, so cheaper). Also, remember that money is also going towards rewards, shipping, etc. which, while not as awesome as some KS's, is still money.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/14 07:17:58
Subject: Re:Through the Breach - Malifaux RPG Kickstarter Breakdown of Funds & 6 Through the Breach Source Books
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Yellin' Yoof
Chicago, IL
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*sighs*
Its not every day I'm proven to be an idiot. I wanted so badly for this KS to do well, but Wyrd has gone out of their way to thwart me. When they released the list of things the money is funding, my faith was renewed...and then in the span of 24 hours, Nathan shot themselves in the face with his 'we don't really need you guys' post. Nothing like being told the whole Kickstarter project is pointless. And let me stop you kool-aid drinkers there. He flat out said it is all getting made whether or not the KS does well. The money from the KS is simply to speed it up and add some extra stuff early. He also talked about a whole bunch of other stuff that makes them look inept and incompetent.
Then when I made a valid post shooting holes in every point he made, pretty much everyone (including him) blew it off and made a joke of it. Good idea...piss off your backers some more. Well, I can say I don't consider myself a backer or investor anymore. It is very clear we are customers and that they are using this kickstarter as a pre-order. What else could be said about it? Its getting made whether its backed or not.
To Buzzsaw...I apologize, you were right. I had hoped you weren't, but Wyrd made you right.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/14 09:52:17
Subject: Re:Through the Breach - Malifaux RPG Kickstarter Breakdown of Funds & 6 Through the Breach Source Books
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Major
London
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kaiohx wrote:*sighs*
Then when I made a valid post shooting holes in every point he made, pretty much everyone (including him) blew it off and made a joke of it. Good idea...piss off your backers some more..
Seriously? I might have to trip over to the Wyrd forums and have a look for myself. Sadly, it doesn't surprise me.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/14 12:51:06
Subject: Through the Breach - Malifaux RPG Kickstarter Breakdown of Funds & 6 Through the Breach Source Books
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Stabbin' Skarboy
Dirty Jersey
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@kaiohx that took a lot of guts to say. like yourself i was skeptical at first just waiting to see if anything got better... but everyday its the same tune. If you don't agree they tell you to get off the thread.
when i look at other kickstarters i try and compare them not just the "free/preorder" goodies they are giving away. But also to get a rough idea where to start, stretch goals, etc. I don't understand with Wyrd why they would need so much money for this project when other kickstarters of rpg books are cheaper and have had better stretch goals.
I personally think they took a drubbing with their new plastics as far as costs they did not anticipate. Or when they pull models back for quality control they would have to pay to make them right the second time...
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Follow me on twitter @cerealk195
Add me on league: Cerealkiller195 |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/14 14:25:55
Subject: Through the Breach - Malifaux RPG Kickstarter Breakdown of Funds & 6 Through the Breach Source Books
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Major
London
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Read through the latest bits of the wyrd forum thread and its pretty predictable - someone comes out with questions and critique of the company, its laughed off and joked about by a larger group.
I agree though, as much as I like Malifaux and Wyrd, I'm not planning on this KS or RPG. Maybe if someone else buys a copy I'll have a good read and then decide, but theres too much other stuff I fancy at the moment.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/14 14:30:39
Subject: Re:Through the Breach - Malifaux RPG Kickstarter Breakdown of Funds & 6 Through the Breach Source Books
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Fixture of Dakka
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I am honestly amazed at the blind following of this.
People are just throwing money at it for no other reason then the figure game. I don't even think half of the people actually read through this trainwreck before they pledged.
Ignorance is bliss, I guess.
As a project this one is up there in the realm of, "Selling you snow in a snowstorm."
Wierd has proven the old addege, that a sucker is born every minute.
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At Games Workshop, we believe that how you behave does matter. We believe this so strongly that we have written it down in the Games Workshop Book. There is a section in the book where we talk about the values we expect all staff to demonstrate in their working lives. These values are Lawyers, Guns and Money. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/14 14:59:28
Subject: Re:Through the Breach - Malifaux RPG Kickstarter Breakdown of Funds & 6 Through the Breach Source Books
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Old Sourpuss
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Grot 6 wrote:I am honestly amazed at the blind following of this. People are just throwing money at it for no other reason then the figure game. I don't even think half of the people actually read through this trainwreck before they pledged. Ignorance is bliss, I guess. As a project this one is up there in the realm of, "Selling you snow in a snowstorm." Wierd has proven the old addege, that a sucker is born every minute.  They're not really selling us snow in a snowstorm, we're not exactly inundated with roleplaying games... Perhaps you should be asking those of us that backed the kickstarter, if we'd like to buy a bridge, because I do have a moat around my house I'm backing the kickstarter because of several reasons that aren't crazy, nor are they blindly following the kickstarter. 1) Mack Martin has a background in RPGs, and has produced several quality games/products for Fantasy Flight Games, 2) I love roleplaying games, and I'm always looking for different games to try, 3) Wyrd hasn't led me astray yet with any of their products (surprisingly EBO is fun, especially when you're just looking to waste 20 minutes), and until they do, I'll look forward to anything they release. 4) I have had issues with the KS, they're in this thread, but Wyrd has assuaged my fears and I'm still looking forward to this.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/12/14 15:00:52
DR:80+S++G+M+B+I+Pwmhd11#++D++A++++/sWD-R++++T(S)DM+

Ask me about Brushfire or Endless: Fantasy Tactics |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/14 15:34:00
Subject: Re:Through the Breach - Malifaux RPG Kickstarter Breakdown of Funds & 6 Through the Breach Source Books
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Major
London
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Grot 6 wrote:I am honestly amazed at the blind following of this.
As a project this one is up there in the realm of, "Selling you snow in a snowstorm."
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/14 15:34:39
Subject: Through the Breach - Malifaux RPG Kickstarter Breakdown of Funds & 6 Through the Breach Source Books
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Sniping Gŭiláng
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I'm curious. Which games/rpgs (before Through the Breach), were made by Mack?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/14 15:40:06
Subject: Through the Breach - Malifaux RPG Kickstarter Breakdown of Funds & 6 Through the Breach Source Books
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Old Sourpuss
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adhuin wrote:I'm curious. Which games/ rpgs (before Through the Breach), were made by Mack?
From what I know, Mack was the lead developer on Dust Warfare and Dust Tactics. He was a part of the RPG development team for Fantasy Flight Games, involved with Only War, Dark Heresy, Deathwatch, and Black Crusade, the 40k RPG games.
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DR:80+S++G+M+B+I+Pwmhd11#++D++A++++/sWD-R++++T(S)DM+

Ask me about Brushfire or Endless: Fantasy Tactics |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/14 15:48:04
Subject: Through the Breach - Malifaux RPG Kickstarter Breakdown of Funds & 6 Through the Breach Source Books
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Major
London
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I thought Andy Chambers was the lead for Dust Warfare?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/14 15:57:18
Subject: Through the Breach - Malifaux RPG Kickstarter Breakdown of Funds & 6 Through the Breach Source Books
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Old Sourpuss
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A quick search on FFG's site sasys it was designed by Andy Chambers, but my cursory search also brought up articles that had Mack as lead dev
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DR:80+S++G+M+B+I+Pwmhd11#++D++A++++/sWD-R++++T(S)DM+

Ask me about Brushfire or Endless: Fantasy Tactics |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/14 16:17:02
Subject: Through the Breach - Malifaux RPG Kickstarter Breakdown of Funds & 6 Through the Breach Source Books
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Infiltrating Broodlord
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At the moment I can't spare funds for this and KD.
If I back KD I get bonus stuff and help the project. With Malifaux I don't seem to get much incentive...why not just spend elsewhere and pick the game up on release?
I'm just not feeling it - which is a great pity as I really like Malifaux's background and style.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/14 16:24:47
Subject: Through the Breach - Malifaux RPG Kickstarter Breakdown of Funds & 6 Through the Breach Source Books
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Old Sourpuss
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To those that have tried to bash the, "if you don't like it, don't back it" mentality it's a valid thing. If you have concerns about the KS, the project, or how it's being run, don't back it, no one can fault you for not wanting to take the risk or not seeing the value.
As it's been said on dakka before, value is jugemental. I feel I'm getting my money's worth, other's don't. Back what you really like.
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DR:80+S++G+M+B+I+Pwmhd11#++D++A++++/sWD-R++++T(S)DM+

Ask me about Brushfire or Endless: Fantasy Tactics |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/14 17:18:08
Subject: Through the Breach - Malifaux RPG Kickstarter Breakdown of Funds & 6 Through the Breach Source Books
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Sniping Reverend Moira
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Alfndrate wrote:To those that have tried to bash the, "if you don't like it, don't back it" mentality it's a valid thing. If you have concerns about the KS, the project, or how it's being run, don't back it, no one can fault you for not wanting to take the risk or not seeing the value.
As it's been said on dakka before, value is jugemental. I feel I'm getting my money's worth, other's don't. Back what you really like.
The problem with this though is thAt everyone in this thread WANTED to back but continues to be turned off by Wyrds attitude toward the KS. Losing a person that was never a customer in the first place is one thing. Losing someone that wanted to be a customer means you did something to turn them away. Big diff. Automatically Appended Next Post: Also... Can we get links to the Wyrd thread where you were dismissed? I'd like to read.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/12/14 17:19:02
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/14 17:21:22
Subject: Through the Breach - Malifaux RPG Kickstarter Breakdown of Funds & 6 Through the Breach Source Books
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Old Sourpuss
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I know man, I'm not contesting that those that aren't backing in this thread (for the most part) weren't potential backers at some point. There's no antagonistic tone in my voice (text).
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DR:80+S++G+M+B+I+Pwmhd11#++D++A++++/sWD-R++++T(S)DM+

Ask me about Brushfire or Endless: Fantasy Tactics |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/14 18:20:37
Subject: Re:Through the Breach - Malifaux RPG Kickstarter Breakdown of Funds & 6 Through the Breach Source Books
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Phanobi
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Grot 6 wrote:I am honestly amazed at the blind following of this.
People are just throwing money at it for no other reason then the figure game. I don't even think half of the people actually read through this trainwreck before they pledged.
Ignorance is bliss, I guess.
As a project this one is up there in the realm of, "Selling you snow in a snowstorm."
Wierd has proven the old addege, that a sucker is born every minute. 
Or, you know, the game sounds interesting and I like what Wyrd has done so far with the Malifaux universe so I'm willing to shell out $60 to try this out. Yeah it's not Zombiecide, but honestly I don't really care, $60 for what I'm getting is pretty good.
Or I'm just a blind sucker.
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My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings. Look on My works, Ye Mighty, and despair.
Chris Gohlinghorst wrote:Holy Space Marine on a Stick.
This conversation has even begun to boggle my internet-hardened mind.
A More Wretched Hive of Scum and Villainy |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/15 03:58:24
Subject: Through the Breach - Malifaux RPG Kickstarter Breakdown of Funds & 6 Through the Breach Source Books
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Old Sourpuss
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I was out and about when this hit, apparently there have been some changes to the chart (I heard rumors that the Red Joker was moved, so it is included in this post)
December 14th - over 595% of funding goal
Hi everyone!
Day Seventeen is coming to a close, so it’s time for the Daily Update!
Today, we’re keeping the update short and sweet. The Breach Side Chat returns next week! Check out Chat #3 on Monday at 5:30 p.m. PST (12/17) to ask Mack questions about the RPG development. As before, it’ll be live, so maybe you can catch him off-guard and get a sneak peek at Through the Breach secrets!
One more shout out to our friends at Fargoal who interviewed Mack today! Check out their live series of interviews here: http://kickathon.net/calendar/ They’ve rounded up game developers all across Kickstarter to talk about their games, their fans, and their experiences with Kickstarter. Link to Mack’s interview, coming soon.
Alright, that’s it for today.
Hey. . . wait a minute. Which one of you moved the Red Joker??
Until Monday!
Jacqulyn
So Under Quarantine? Anyone that knows a little bit about the city of Malifaux knows that the Ressers and undead tend to roam/rule the Quarantine Zones around Malifaux. So, it looks like we will have rules for creating "Fated Stiched" This could mean Stitched Together (but they're a neverborn minion) or dolls that Collodi makes, but again... Neverborn... So, Mack Martin actually gave a straight answer:
Mack.Martin wrote:Well, it's the Necromancy book... besides puppets, I wonder what you could stitch together from parts you have lying around...
So you might be able to play as one of Seamus's girls, a punk zombie controlled by Nicodem at times, or more likely, you'll be similar to Molly Squidpidge.
Enjoy!
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DR:80+S++G+M+B+I+Pwmhd11#++D++A++++/sWD-R++++T(S)DM+

Ask me about Brushfire or Endless: Fantasy Tactics |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/18 01:05:55
Subject: Through the Breach - Malifaux RPG Kickstarter Breakdown of Funds & 6 Through the Breach Source Books
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Old Sourpuss
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You want stretch goals? Well Custom Fatemaster Screens are coming! Now idk if these are addons like they said they wouldn't do, or if it's an added reward we'll unlock to be given at the 125+ levels. Who knows, but it is something tangible.
Hi everyone!
Day Twenty is coming to a close, so it’s time for the Daily Update!
Today we’re excited to announce an update for the $200,000 Stretch Goal. We have just secured the means to offer a Custom Through the Breach FateMaster Screen as an added reward!
For more info on this Stretch Goal Update and for answers to your @BreachSideChat questions, tune in at 5:30 p.m. PST tonight to catch Mack Martin on ustream.tv/channel/through-the-breach !
Until Tomorrow!
Jacqulyn
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DR:80+S++G+M+B+I+Pwmhd11#++D++A++++/sWD-R++++T(S)DM+

Ask me about Brushfire or Endless: Fantasy Tactics |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/18 01:12:45
Subject: Through the Breach - Malifaux RPG Kickstarter - Custom Fatemaster Screen, NEW $200,000 Stretch Goal!
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Using Object Source Lighting
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I'd have preferred they filled in the x25k/x75k than doubled up, but that's a nice addition. What's up with the digital book and the tree at 250k? was that always the case for that?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/18 01:27:52
Subject: Through the Breach - Malifaux RPG Kickstarter - Custom Fatemaster Screen, NEW $200,000 Stretch Goal!
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Old Sourpuss
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Yup, they haven't changed any of the stretch goals until today.
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DR:80+S++G+M+B+I+Pwmhd11#++D++A++++/sWD-R++++T(S)DM+

Ask me about Brushfire or Endless: Fantasy Tactics |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/18 01:32:51
Subject: Re:Through the Breach - Malifaux RPG Kickstarter - Custom Fatemaster Screen, NEW $200,000 Stretch Goal!
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Mutating Changebringer
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We have just secured the means to offer a Custom Through the Breach FateMaster Screen as an added reward!
Any idea what "custom" means here? Like, you can have them personalized or something? That seems a bit labor intensive...
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/18 01:34:43
Subject: Through the Breach - Malifaux RPG Kickstarter - Custom Fatemaster Screen, NEW $200,000 Stretch Goal!
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Old Sourpuss
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No idea... Jac might mean "special edition" or "kickstarter exclusive" I'll see if I can't ask her tomorrow.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/12/18 01:38:10
DR:80+S++G+M+B+I+Pwmhd11#++D++A++++/sWD-R++++T(S)DM+

Ask me about Brushfire or Endless: Fantasy Tactics |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/18 07:06:04
Subject: Re:Through the Breach - Malifaux RPG Kickstarter - Custom Fatemaster Screen, NEW $200,000 Stretch Goal!
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Hard-Wired Sentinel Pilot
Usually somewhere in England
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Some small improvement - I'm still in by the skin of my teeth at the minute. It's still a pretty lump of carboard and a pdf for a 50k kickstarter jump. Not to be too negative - it does seem that some listening and responding by Wyrd is now occurring and the expansions sound rather cool too.
What I really want to see on the kickstarter is improved graphics, miniature concepts, cover art etc. Something to get me excited about the game. Podcasts (don't have the time or inclination) and text aren't so engaging. The kickstarter should reflect the game, shouldn't it?
Laney
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/18 12:53:41
Subject: Re:Through the Breach - Malifaux RPG Kickstarter - Custom Fatemaster Screen, NEW $200,000 Stretch Goal!
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Old Sourpuss
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02Laney wrote:Some small improvement - I'm still in by the skin of my teeth at the minute. It's still a pretty lump of carboard and a pdf for a 50k kickstarter jump. Not to be too negative - it does seem that some listening and responding by Wyrd is now occurring and the expansions sound rather cool too. What I really want to see on the kickstarter is improved graphics, miniature concepts, cover art etc. Something to get me excited about the game. Podcasts (don't have the time or inclination) and text aren't so engaging. The kickstarter should reflect the game, shouldn't it? Laney I've seen some of the art, and would repost it if I could. The art quality and style are on par with at least the Book 3 and 4 art. Book 2 has too much concept art, and I believe Book 1 used concept art where a model didn't exist (I don't have any of my books on me). As for the the podcasts (Gamer's Lounge and the Breach Side Chats), pop them on at work. Take your iPod (if it's a pretty recent one) or smart phone, listen to the Breach Side Chats through YouTube, and Nix's podcast is almost always the place to go for behind the scenes. He's kinda Mali-famous, and I don't think Wyrd has problems interviewing with Nix just because of how much Nix does for the game, how his podcast which was 40k centric, is now almost all Malifaux, and just how nice of a guy he is. Sorry you don't have the inclination, but there is always time in this digital age to listen to something., throw it on while you shower in the morning, download it and play it through your car's speakers on your morning commute, at work, before you go to sleep.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/12/18 12:54:06
DR:80+S++G+M+B+I+Pwmhd11#++D++A++++/sWD-R++++T(S)DM+

Ask me about Brushfire or Endless: Fantasy Tactics |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/18 13:10:22
Subject: Through the Breach - Malifaux RPG Kickstarter - Custom Fatemaster Screen, NEW $200,000 Stretch Goal!
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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It's a neat addition, and if it turns out to be a free stretch goal adds a good bit of value.
spiralingcadaver wrote:I'd have preferred they filled in the x25k/x75k than doubled up, but that's a nice addition. What's up with the digital book and the tree at 250k? was that always the case for that?
I think the x25k and x75k goals are ment to be page number expansions to the two main books.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/18 18:09:13
Subject: Through the Breach - Malifaux RPG Kickstarter - Custom Fatemaster Screen, NEW $200,000 Stretch Goal!
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Using Object Source Lighting
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Catyrpelius wrote:I think the x25k and x75k goals are ment to be page number expansions to the two main books.
Good point! I wish they'd have combined the stretch goals and the book plan, but I can hardly blame Wyrd for not combining those elements, since they are both at the top of the page...
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/18 18:12:02
Subject: Through the Breach - Malifaux RPG Kickstarter - Custom Fatemaster Screen, NEW $200,000 Stretch Goal!
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Old Sourpuss
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spiralingcadaver wrote: Catyrpelius wrote:I think the x25k and x75k goals are ment to be page number expansions to the two main books.
Good point! I wish they'd have combined the stretch goals and the book plan, but I can hardly blame Wyrd for not combining those elements, since they are both at the top of the page...
Might make the charts more confusing to read >_<
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DR:80+S++G+M+B+I+Pwmhd11#++D++A++++/sWD-R++++T(S)DM+

Ask me about Brushfire or Endless: Fantasy Tactics |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/18 18:14:00
Subject: Through the Breach - Malifaux RPG Kickstarter - Custom Fatemaster Screen, NEW $200,000 Stretch Goal!
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Using Object Source Lighting
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Heh, I can hear it now, "Wait, how many pages is the Hanging Tree?"
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