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Hello. From the advice of long time users here on Dakka (the cat with the green helmet Edit: DashofPepper and Thor666 I belive?) I used to runn wytches in raiders. 9 of them with and haemonculy to get the paintoken. However, after 6th edition, is this still viable? I see some people have downgraded to a 5 man wytch squad for the hayvire grenades.

The lov transport charge range + overwatch just have me worried that wytches might not be so good. What do people say?

Toughness 3 and a 6+ save has seen them suffer a bit - your average 10 man tactical squad killing about 2 if you assault them. Not horrendous - but they took a knock in survivability.

The wyches in a venom with haywire grenades offers a cheaper, more direct approach. Considering vehicles are hit on 3+, haywire grenades got a huge boost. You'll likely take out any vehicle you target, and even have a not-too-bad chance of taking out a landraider with some above average rolls.

Plus, the venom purchase nets you 12 poison shots. So that helps

Being able to move just 6 inches before you can disembark has made DE assault a very, very risky gambit. You'll pretty much have to stay in optimal range for neemy fire for a turn. Against any army with autocannons, psybolts or even plasma guns and assault cannons, that means your transport blowing up and lots of dead wyches.

I've been able to do some assaulting with my DE, but mostly just in friendly games. Even then, you have to try and make the enemy spread out so only your target is really in range to counter you. Try to favor units that don't shoot at all as target: assault terminators, Possessed, Warp Talon, Mutilators, psykers (who cannot cast powers as overwatch).

Failing that, favor units with low volume of fire but strong weapons (Long Fangs with Missile launchers, Wraithguard, pistols...anywithing that only shoots once. Strong shots don't kill you that much worse than bolters, and you are getting shot at less, so less odds of a 6.


Finally, thin out your target as much as you can. Don't focus all of your fire on the target unless you -really- need it gone, as it leaves the rest of the enemy force free to retaliate. But if you can knock down 1-2 terminators from a aquad, 3-4 MeQs from a unit and so on before the charge, that improves your odds decently. Just be careful that Marines don't have to check morale before you charge! They can opt to fail with Combat tactics and fall back, probably moving waaay out of charge range and leaving your wyches on the oard like sitting ducks.

...the advice of long time users here on Dakka (the cat with the green helmet...

Hehe, can't help but picture DashofPepper as actually being that cat with a melon helmet now.

Sephyr makes all the key points I wanted to make, so other than the above observation, I will just say that I agree with him.

The only units Iv been using in assault are Hellions and Reavers.

Thats also only after the target has been suitably softened.

5 Wyches will destroy any vehicle they come into contact with, it's quite fun, however one of my friend runs them in groups of 9 with a haemonculi, for the FNP that way if there is some overwatch atleast they get a save against it, plus since fleet is in the assault phase they can now shoot their guns aswell as throw a plasma grenade if it is in range

5 wyches are good for killing off vehicles, but they will likely die after killing said vehicle.

Wracks are decent assault troops, not great but decent. Wyches can work. With fleet you should try to be assaulting through terrain with a PGL so you get a decent cover save against overwatch.

In my experience overwatch isn't much of an issue. It can hurt at times, but rarely so much that it affects the ensuing assault. The biggest issue I have is with my raiders explodeing. I'm not sure if I have poor placement when I move, or if there is something else to do, but it seems turn one starts with 2-3 raiders blowing up, the squads inside losing half their numbers, and then running off the board. Any advice from those that run raider rush on how to keep the raiders alive?

Ghawhaar wrote:
In my experience overwatch isn't much of an issue. It can hurt at times, but rarely so much that it affects the ensuing assault. The biggest issue I have is with my raiders explodeing. I'm not sure if I have poor placement when I move, or if there is something else to do, but it seems turn one starts with 2-3 raiders blowing up, the squads inside losing half their numbers, and then running off the board. Any advice from those that run raider rush on how to keep the raiders alive?

Get first turn.

Failing that, roll a 6 and seize the init.


Not much you can do unless you either take flicker fields or can hide your raiders behind terrain.