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Tournaments are different. They have their own rules and set their limits. They have points given out to well painted armies, entry requirements and actually make some dedicate time to attend one. Not everyone's schedule matches tournament times. And they can ban legitimate units. Such as Forgeworld and fortifications.

But a casual game at "friendly" game store is something different. That's like expecting someone to get a full uniform to play basketball at the gym because that's what the pros do.

 Glorioski wrote:

 Savageconvoy wrote:
Some people don't like how other people spend their off time when playing a tabletop war game? I really could care less. I have a fully painted army and I try to field only painted models. But that is my choice that I made. I would never try to impose my own personal standards on someone else.

Though if I ever met someone who really hated playing against an I painted army that he'd make a judge of character or expect a penalty, I'd like to know. Because I'd never play against them or at an establishment that would enforce such a policy. I don't care how pretty your models are. It's not going to make you less of a jerk on the inside. And that's really what I care about in this game. The people.

So most tournaments go worse and disallow unpainted armies altogether. Are their TOs also jerks?

That's not what your thread is about. Its about casual gaming in your local group/club. I don't carebof a TO requires it, that's part of the price of admission.

I voted for?

I just think that you are buying into a hobby that really includes painting, modelling and wargaming. Not just wargaming. I have school, five days a week, with ridiculous amounts of homework every night and even more during the weekend. That's without including study. But I still make time for the hobby that I enjoy.
I don't get this business of "Oh I don't have the time to do such and such!" I have the mindset that you make time for the things you enjoy, some things have to be done but I make the time everyday for some sort of painting, be it half an hour or fifteen minutes, I get something done, even just minimal stuff.
I understand if someone has a new army that hasn't had paint on it yet or some of the army is partially painted but when I see a grey army that should be painted from the amount of time they have had it it makes no sense to have it painted.

Some people have school, work, and families. Try telling a single parent that he/she is lazy because they don't paint to make you happy.

Some people do have genuine reasons, like the one you mentioned Savageconvoy, but the only reason I voted for was because I was thinking about people who say they don't have time when they really do.

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:

 Glorioski wrote:

 Savageconvoy wrote:
Some people don't like how other people spend their off time when playing a tabletop war game? I really could care less. I have a fully painted army and I try to field only painted models. But that is my choice that I made. I would never try to impose my own personal standards on someone else.

Though if I ever met someone who really hated playing against an I painted army that he'd make a judge of character or expect a penalty, I'd like to know. Because I'd never play against them or at an establishment that would enforce such a policy. I don't care how pretty your models are. It's not going to make you less of a jerk on the inside. And that's really what I care about in this game. The people.

So most tournaments go worse and disallow unpainted armies altogether. Are their TOs also jerks?

That's not what your thread is about. Its about casual gaming in your local group/club. I don't carebof a TO requires it, that's part of the price of admission.

Sure. The question was put towards Savageconvoy who didn't specify when he said "an establishment". It wasn't rhetorical either, I am interested in his viewpoint.

I already stated my opinion at the top of this page.

So you want to penalize people starting out? Booooo all I do now is plan out tactics and paint. I have only played 1 game in 2 months since starting since the place i play at has a painted rule. Its sad really.

Can we get a mod lock now?

 Savageconvoy wrote:
Some people have school, work, and families. Try telling a single parent that he/she is lazy because they don't paint to make you happy.

So what you're saying is, all the people with unpainted armies are single parents working 60 hours a week?

Also, apparently everyone posts from work and on the train. I don't know what all you people do when you get home.

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:
Can we get a mod lock now?

Seconded

My example isn't supposed to cover every person, but it still stands. You don't know what anyone else's schedule is, nor do you dictate how they spend their time out side the game.

And I'm posting while working on projects.

 Kaldor wrote:

 Savageconvoy wrote:
Some people have school, work, and families. Try telling a single parent that he/she is lazy because they don't paint to make you happy.

So what you're saying is, all the people with unpainted armies are single parents working 60 hours a week?

Also, apparently everyone posts from work and on the train. I don't know what all you people do when you get home.

The point he was trying to make was that not everyone has the same amount of time. I do not have anywhere near enough time to paint any of my three armies due to the fact that I'm moving, I have school, I have a job, and I have a significant other. As much as I like 40k, it is not at the top of my priorities, just as it isn't for plenty of people. Not everyone prioritizes their hobby above everything else, especially if those people are extremely busy with, you know, life.

I've spent probably $1k on my three armies, and I'll be damned before some tool decides that he gets Preferred Enemy because I don't have the time required to paint about 4 dozen models. Although, I haven't even had toime to play a game of 40k since 6th came out.

I have been lurking here for a year, ever since I returned to Warhammer after a 20 year break.

I feel so strongly about this topic, I had to register.

It's my experience that the people with unpainted armies are WAAC Tryhards with more money than talent, who go out and purchase whatever the current OP Netlist happens to be. If you go out and look, your going to see a lot of unpainted Necroissant Armies, flamer/screamer hordes and Gk Termie blobs. I imagine there's a virtual Air Force of unpainted Valkyries and Vendettas out there right now. I can't imagine having the sheer stupid audacity to put down an unpainted wall of Razorbacks.

I would rather pick an army, paint it, tweak it and learn how to win with it. I have no respect for people who must pick up whatever the Internet says is best, and I don't play with those people.

At my local GW, those people (mostly kids who live at home and can afford a new army every time Matt Ward makes a new codx) play each other, and the grown ups play each other.

Oddly I've never seen the flavor of the month/Waac players with less than 75% painted units. Just what I've seen personally. And I haven't played at many stores.

I'm with savage. Whenever someone plays me with a cheesy list, it actually tends to be painted more often than not.

Not that I don't believe you. Such a situation is logical enough, but kind of silly. Most tournies have painting requirements, and why would you want to be a WAAC player outside of those? That just makes you a TFG that nobody likes and nobody wants to play after the first round.

 Necroshea wrote:
I'm with savage. Whenever someone plays me with a cheesy list, it actually tends to be painted more often than not.

Not that I don't believe you. Such a situation is logical enough, but kind of silly. Most tournies have painting requirements, and why would you want to be a WAAC player outside of those? That just makes you a TFG that nobody likes and nobody wants to play after the first round.

You're throwing around words, large insulting words like TFG and WAAC, quite willy nilly. Makes it seem like you don't fully understand what they mean or the gravity behind such a name.

It wasn't directed at anyone. It's just a simple analogy. They can't have much less weight than that.

MakesKidsKill wrote:
It's my experience that the people with unpainted armies are WAAC Tryhards with more money than talent, who go out and purchase whatever the current OP Netlist happens to be.

I love anectodal evidence. To use one I used in another thread - I never see anyone buying or playing Flames of War at my FLGS. No one in the entire world plays Flames of War.

Your experience is just that - your experience. Trying to pass it off as accurate in the larger community in any way makes you look stupid.

McNinja wrote:The point he was trying to make was that not everyone has the same amount of time.

This is pretty much the best post. To expand on it - not everyone has the same amount of free time, and not everyone prioritises things the same way. That doesn't make their priorities wrong, it just makes their priorities different to other people, because people are individuals with different priorities.

 -Loki- wrote:

MakesKidsKill wrote:
It's my experience that the people with unpainted armies are WAAC Tryhards with more money than talent, who go out and purchase whatever the current OP Netlist happens to be.

I love anectodal evidence. To use one I used in another thread - I never see anyone buying or playing Flames of War at my FLGS. No one in the entire world plays Flames of War.

Your experience is just that - your experience. Trying to pass it off as accurate in the larger community in any way makes you look stupid.

Yeah, in my experience unpainted armies cover the whole range from competitive to awful, and none of them have been TFG. The only thing they've had in common is the owner not giving a about how their army looks.

Honestly does it matter?

Want to play games against fully painted armies? Don't play games against unpainted armies.

Don't mind playing games against the grey/metal horde? Go play then.

One is not strictly better than the other and both individual and mass opinion on the matter doesn't really affect the fact that those of us with fully painted armies will play games against unpainted armies (regardless of preference).

 Cryonicleech wrote:
Honestly does it matter?

Want to play games against fully painted armies? Don't play games against unpainted armies.

Don't mind playing games against the grey/metal horde? Go play then.

One is not strictly better than the other and both individual and mass opinion on the matter doesn't really affect the fact that those of us with fully painted armies will play games against unpainted armies (regardless of preference).

Well stated

 -Loki- wrote:
This is pretty much the best post. To expand on it - not everyone has the same amount of free time, and not everyone prioritises things the same way. That doesn't make their priorities wrong, it just makes their priorities different to other people, because people are individuals with different priorities.

While their priorities aren't wrong, they are at odds with the hobby. It involves painting. Why start the hobby, if you don't like painting? It'd be like joining a soccer team if you didn't like soccer.

 Kaldor wrote:

 -Loki- wrote:
This is pretty much the best post. To expand on it - not everyone has the same amount of free time, and not everyone prioritises things the same way. That doesn't make their priorities wrong, it just makes their priorities different to other people, because people are individuals with different priorities.

While their priorities aren't wrong, they are at odds with the hobby. It involves painting. Why start the hobby, if you don't like painting? It'd be like joining a soccer team if you didn't like soccer.

I think it's more like joining a soccer team and you don't like being a goalie.

 Kaldor wrote:

 -Loki- wrote:
This is pretty much the best post. To expand on it - not everyone has the same amount of free time, and not everyone prioritises things the same way. That doesn't make their priorities wrong, it just makes their priorities different to other people, because people are individuals with different priorities.

While their priorities aren't wrong, they are at odds with the hobby. It involves painting. Why start the hobby, if you don't like painting? It'd be like joining a soccer team if you didn't like soccer.

I hate painting. I thoroughly enjoy Building/Converting and playing the game in a competitive environment. Luckily I have a friend who loves to paint more than he likes to play.

No. It's like learning how to repair a car engine, but not learning how to paint the car itself. Like learning how to grow vegetables but not learning how to cook. It's a tabletop game.

You're not playing someone in a paint off. You're playing someone on a table with models in a strategy game. Asking them to make their property pleasing to aesthetic tastes is not part of that game.

 Kaldor wrote:

 -Loki- wrote:
This is pretty much the best post. To expand on it - not everyone has the same amount of free time, and not everyone prioritises things the same way. That doesn't make their priorities wrong, it just makes their priorities different to other people, because people are individuals with different priorities.

While their priorities aren't wrong, they are at odds with the hobby. It involves painting. Why start the hobby, if you don't like painting? It'd be like joining a soccer team if you didn't like soccer.

It's not the hobby, it's the expensive tabletop game with great models that are sold unpainted. You can make it into your hobby by converting, painting like a pro, writing fan fiction or sth but using "this is hobby" as an argument reminds me of GW trying to push 40k tabletop game as a "Games Workshop Hobby" like it was something unique in the gaming world.

I hate this elitist attitude that people with unpainted stuff are inferior in some way. My LGS (distinct lack of Friendly there) semi-recently dropped the ultimatum of if your army isn't painted, you can't play there. Period. Mine is about 1/3 of the way there, but I'm just not really motivated to paint very often.

Not everyone has that kind of time OR inclination. I'm a sophomore engineering student, I spend the entire day with a pencil in my hand, the last thing I usually want to do in my free time is pick up a brush. I'd rather watch TV, or play some Xbox, spend time with my girlfriend, read a book, etc. Painting just seems like a chore to me, and I'm sure there are plenty of other people who feel the same way. I'm not a very good painter, so it takes about an hour per model to get them looking any sort of decent. Why would I want to spend my really limited hobby time on that when I could go get in a game?

Be honest, does it really ruin your whole week to see unpainted or partially painted minis across from you? And if it does, how bad is it to just not play them and let someone with a little less prejudice enjoy the game?

 Kaldor wrote:

 -Loki- wrote:
This is pretty much the best post. To expand on it - not everyone has the same amount of free time, and not everyone prioritises things the same way. That doesn't make their priorities wrong, it just makes their priorities different to other people, because people are individuals with different priorities.

While their priorities aren't wrong, they are at odds with the hobby. It involves painting. Why start the hobby, if you don't like painting? It'd be like joining a soccer team if you didn't like soccer.

It's a multifaceted hobby.

That's remarkably obvious.

It involves modeling, playing, and painting. That's clear to (almost) everybody.

Soccer involves Offense, Defense, and Goalkeeping.

You can do all three of both, but you can also get along perfectly doing one or two.

 -Loki- wrote:

MakesKidsKill wrote:
It's my experience that the people with unpainted armies are WAAC Tryhards with more money than talent, who go out and purchase whatever the current OP Netlist happens to be.

I love anectodal evidence. To use one I used in another thread - I never see anyone buying or playing Flames of War at my FLGS. No one in the entire world plays Flames of War.

Your experience is just that - your experience. Trying to pass it off as accurate in the larger community in any way makes you look stupid.

Dude, what's wrong with stating my experience? Literally, ones experiences are the only thing a person can truly trust. I've been playing GW games for 25 years, I believe my experience is hugely accurate about the community.

What would you use to judge what sort of people play unpainted armies, if not your experience? The massive peer reviewed databases full,of data?