Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

My IG playing friend hates penal legion but i love them and the abilities they get,what are your thoughts?
Also any good tactics to use them to their full capability are welcome

They are excellent for foot guard as they give you good mobility for taking objectives that are far away on cheap and reasonably effective troops.

If you aren't playing foot guard, they are still useful.

 juraigamer wrote:
They are excellent for foot guard as they give you good mobility for taking objectives that are far away on cheap and reasonably effective troops.

If you aren't playing foot guard, they are still useful.

I sincerely hope you are joking.... mobility is not an excuse for sacrificing points that you could spend on dakka, and with no ability for upgrades they are even more worthless. The buffs they gain are not enough for the extra points over a PIS

They're literally horrible.

Totally combat ineffective, and pathetically weak.

Only take Penal Legions on a dare.

Not joking. Their bonuses that they can get make them more useful than standard guardsmen.

Of course, if you're the old vet spamming WAAC player... I see your point.

Penal Legions are one of the more underrated units in the game. Generally speaking, outflanking troops units can be a major bother for opponents in many scenarios. That said, they are not very useful outside of objective scenarios and their killing power is limited.

 juraigamer wrote:
Not joking. Their bonuses that they can get make them more useful than standard guardsmen.

Of course, if you're the old vet spamming WAAC player... I see your point.

Vet spam doesn't make you WAAC; you clearly don't understand the proper use of that word.

And they aren't more useful than anything in the IG codex.

They can't take special or heavy weapons, voxes, combined squads, commissars, power weapons.

They are 10 guardsmen, and they will die like 10 guardsmen without killing anything significant. Because they are weak.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kingsley wrote:
Penal Legions are one of the more underrated units in the game. Generally speaking, outflanking troops units can be a major bother for opponents in many scenarios.

Generally speaking, sure.

But not-generally, those troops are 10 guardsmen with no special weapons.

Not much of a bother.

Only thing I have against the penal legion is they can't take a chimera. The abilities are cool, the modeling options are interesting, but not being able to give them the transport is rough.

Hmm so would you suggest taking a squad or two?

They are fun to use as speedbumps or outflanking scoring units. Very little combat potential, unless you get assault lasguns and give them FRFSRF. 30 shots out of 10 dudes, while still being lasguns, is hilarious.

If I could buy them in 30 man strong units and could choose what ability they took? Absolutely. 30 guardsmen that are always stubborn with a choice of assault 2 lasguns or an extra ccw and rending? That can outflank or scout? They would be awesome for foot guard as skirmishers or as a linebreaker force outflanking behind the enemy lines in their deployment zone. Heck, I'd still pay 8pts per model for them.

But only 10 strong, with no way to buff their numbers and having to randomly decide their abilities every game? Not so much.

I am considering runing a squad for getting an easy linebreaker point. Nobody i've used them against has ever bothered to shoot at them, and most didnt realize they're claiming line breaker until its too late. But I would never build a list around them. Just not enough to do anything. They NEED some more options in the next codex. Even if its only the option to add more dudes. Don't show HUNDREDS of them charging the enemy when we can only take 60 max in a regular game./rant

I like using them to hold back field objectives. I don't use them all the time, but will from time to time. I like using them behind an ADL w/ quad gun. Stubborn is not to be undervalued.

Well, they're too random, outflanking doesn't help unless your opponent totally ignores them as in MrMoustaffa's example since you can't take special/heavy weapons or a dedicated transport, the abilities they get are all CC oriented, which become useless in a unit of a mere 10 Guardsmen, and they're unreliable and lack any kind of threat. 1 extra lasgun shot at ranges between 12-24" can be OK, but only a 33% chance of getting it, at the cost of 30 pts? No thanks. All in all, their abilities would be awesome if PIS's could get them, but as it stands, they're not that useful. There's something better and/or cheaper for any purpose they could serve:
-If you want sucky, expendable infantry, go for Conscripts.
-If you want outflanking, use Al'Rahem or Harker, or maybe deepstrike/outflank (although I believe the latter is illegal, most players here would disagree) with Vendettas/Valks.
-If you want any kind of combat effectiveness, get more PIS or Vets.

I'll just wheel this old opinion out. It was true in 5th ed, and it's true now:

 Ailaros wrote:
The worst one that I can think of on the top of my head is penal legionnaires. They have scouts, but can't take any upgrades whatsoever, so they outflank without the ability to do anything but shoot some lasguns. They have stubborn, but only on Ld7 with no source of reroll, and they're still a 10-man squad of T3 Sv5+ models - not exactly a challenge to wipe out. Add to this, their only real special ability is determined randomly before the game, so you can't even plan out a role for them while building your list, especially since one of the abilities makes you better in shooting and another makes you better in close combat.

For a unit that is just as fragile as a regular guard squad, except without any of the upgrade abilities that make platoon infantry squads worth taking at all, you have to pay a 60% markup.

70 points of penal legionnaires against 70 other points of properly equipped troops and I can pretty well guarantee that the penal legionnaires are going to lose.

They get my vote for one of the worst troops choices in the game.

2nd worst unit in the IG codex, right after Ogryns
Easily among the least viable troops choices in the entire game

I've fielded them several times on dares, those games were among the shortest that I've ever played. Using them is completely unpredictable save that they are a 70 point, unupgradable standard guard squad. I mean, they don't even look good on paper, I don't see their possible appeal.

Especially when you can take conscripts with send in the next wave for that proper penal legion feel.

And at least conscripts are infinitely respawning scoring units, so they're actually useful.

If they had Krak, I'd take them. But no grenades, no options, just S3? Not Worth it.

-Matt

I use them in what I consider a highly competitive tournament list of deamons with allied guard.

h think of them as an infantry squad with the cost of their special ability, stubborn, and outflank being the same cost as a vet doctrine.

Guard sources of scoring units that outflank are limited to penal, alrahiem, vendettas, and creed. Being an allied detachment there is already a cheap squad in a vendetta, with the penal legion I have 2.

The penal legion doesn't need to kick ass and take names, that's the job of screamers and flamers which I have in abundance. Their job along with the 2 msu plague bearrers and bare bone infantry squadin the vendetta is to take objectives.

As a deamon player I love having cheap infantry squads behind an aegis holding my backfield objective, and the coms relay to boost deamonic reserves is great. Penal legion are very survivable while in reserves, especially with other units on a coms relay allowing me to reroll successful reserve rolls if the time is not right for them to come in.

 Ailaros wrote:
I'll just wheel this old opinion out. It was true in 5th ed, and it's true now:

 Ailaros wrote:
The worst one that I can think of on the top of my head is penal legionnaires. They have scouts, but can't take any upgrades whatsoever, so they outflank without the ability to do anything but shoot some lasguns. They have stubborn, but only on Ld7 with no source of reroll, and they're still a 10-man squad of T3 Sv5+ models - not exactly a challenge to wipe out. Add to this, their only real special ability is determined randomly before the game, so you can't even plan out a role for them while building your list, especially since one of the abilities makes you better in shooting and another makes you better in close combat.

For a unit that is just as fragile as a regular guard squad, except without any of the upgrade abilities that make platoon infantry squads worth taking at all, you have to pay a 60% markup.

70 points of penal legionnaires against 70 other points of properly equipped troops and I can pretty well guarantee that the penal legionnaires are going to lose.

They get my vote for one of the worst troops choices in the game.

Last time I checked, Penal Legion were LD8...

 Happygrunt wrote:

 Ailaros wrote:
I'll just wheel this old opinion out. It was true in 5th ed, and it's true now:

 Ailaros wrote:
The worst one that I can think of on the top of my head is penal legionnaires. They have scouts, but can't take any upgrades whatsoever, so they outflank without the ability to do anything but shoot some lasguns. They have stubborn, but only on Ld7 with no source of reroll, and they're still a 10-man squad of T3 Sv5+ models - not exactly a challenge to wipe out. Add to this, their only real special ability is determined randomly before the game, so you can't even plan out a role for them while building your list, especially since one of the abilities makes you better in shooting and another makes you better in close combat.

For a unit that is just as fragile as a regular guard squad, except without any of the upgrade abilities that make platoon infantry squads worth taking at all, you have to pay a 60% markup.

70 points of penal legionnaires against 70 other points of properly equipped troops and I can pretty well guarantee that the penal legionnaires are going to lose.

They get my vote for one of the worst troops choices in the game.

Last time I checked, Penal Legion were LD8...

Huge difference between 7 and 8, but his point is they are not worth a 60% mark up. On paper I agree with him, however actual performance doesn't always reflect the stats on paper. I'm still of the opinion in the right list the 30 point cost difference between a nakid infantry squad and a penal squad is worth the flexibility in the right list.

During 5th Edition the Penal Legion was more useful. Sending a Stubborn scoring unit with minor assault capability to the enemy
backfield was a viable tactic. In the best scenario you caught some supporting unit and tied it up by assault. In the worst, your opponent
had to allocate resources to eliminate them from his DZ.

With 6th Edition making the Assault Phase very difficult the Legionnaires can not employ this trick anymore. At least not without taking
potentially crippling casualties along way. Since you can no longer assault when coming from reserves you have to stop 1.0001 inches from
the enemy and look stupid.

I agree with the sentiment that in the next incarnation of the IG Codex they should get some options. The obvious one being
the option to buy more troopers. The second one being the chance to CHOOSE their special ability. I am really frustrated and tired with
the "randomize everything"- philosophy the GW writers use.

Honestly, I think Penal Legions are probably worth it just for the auto-Linebreaker in some situations.

 Kingsley wrote:
Honestly, I think Penal Legions are probably worth it just for the auto-Linebreaker in some situations.

Stormtroopers can linebreak AND do usefull stuff.

 TheCaptain wrote:

 Kingsley wrote:
Honestly, I think Penal Legions are probably worth it just for the auto-Linebreaker in some situations.

Stormtroopers can linebreak AND do usefull stuff.

They also cost more, aren't troops, and die more easily for their points.

Expensive, underarmed. Workable in friendly games or themed missions, avoid otherwise.

 Kingsley wrote:

 TheCaptain wrote:

 Kingsley wrote:
Honestly, I think Penal Legions are probably worth it just for the auto-Linebreaker in some situations.

Stormtroopers can linebreak AND do usefull stuff.

They also cost more, aren't troops, and die more easily for their points.

They don't die even slightly as easily.

 TheCaptain wrote:

 Kingsley wrote:

 TheCaptain wrote:

 Kingsley wrote:
Honestly, I think Penal Legions are probably worth it just for the auto-Linebreaker in some situations.

Stormtroopers can linebreak AND do usefull stuff.

They also cost more, aren't troops, and die more easily for their points.

They don't die even slightly as easily.

You should really make sure you read the entire sentence.

I've had Penal Legions save the day in late game objective grabbing and drawing fire that would otherwise go against my other troops and tanks. As Commissars can now be picked off, not always easily but none the less, the group stubborn of PL does have it's advantages. I've had vet squads decked out with plasma get blown out of the sky as my vendetta gets a snap shot on its rear armor. Same with the metal coffin chimeras. So not every other unit that looks better on paper always acomplishes so much more. You just can't take one PL or they won't do jack. It would be like flanking Uncle Al with his PCS only. As most have stated, with the assault from reserve nerf and Initiative nerf with furious charge, they lost a lot of what little they had.

My beef with stormies is their base Ld is 7 without the sarge and they lack stubborn. Once you lose the Sarge or get assaulted, they float away with the breeze. Really pisses me off as these guys are supposed to be the elite of the IG and aren't cheap. What a joke rule wise. My guys almost never, ever last a turn after they whiff with their melta guns. Meanwhile the PL has base Ld 8 on everyone and is stubborn. WTF Cruddace?

I have used the PLS and have never felt as if they were not worth the points spent. Have all those that say they are worthless ever used them or domyounstill follow the same armies as all others. I will agree that there abilities do suck or he most part. However, scout and stubborn are great at an 80 point investment. Will the PLS change the corse of a game, doubt it. Will they stick around longer and tie up that tactical squad in cc, yes.

Corollax wrote:

 TheCaptain wrote:

 Kingsley wrote:

 TheCaptain wrote:

 Kingsley wrote:
Honestly, I think Penal Legions are probably worth it just for the auto-Linebreaker in some situations.

Stormtroopers can linebreak AND do usefull stuff.

They also cost more, aren't troops, and die more easily for their points.

They don't die even slightly as easily.

You should really make sure you read the entire sentence.

Oh I did; twice.

Thanks for the snarkiness though.

I can read it a third time, and they still won't die as easily, let alone more easily; point value being irrelevant.