Beyond The Gates of Antares - Official Kickstarter Thread

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**Melcavuk**

Today we have a new kickstarter update with progress made on the limited edition Hansa model aswell as insight into progress the team is making in other fields:

Today we have a various bits of information to share with you, first up is a look at some of the upcoming updates we're planning:

Hansa Model - When we announced GoA we also opened up a section in our development forums asking for feedback on Hansa the Exclusive Kickstarter Miniature - in line with our backer development program. I'm glad to say we had a great response with over 77 replies so far and so have initiated work on him. We briefed Kevin White this morning and he will be starting work on the model in earnest on monday. Just like we said we would, we're going to show you the process of development in various updates over the next 2-4 weeks as he creates him. So you'll get to see how Kev goes about creating his great models and get graphic detail on each stage. We're extremely happy to be announcing this so that we can hopefully start to put some minds at ease and actually just can't wait to show you his work!

Turn sequence - Lots of people have asked about how our game plays, so we're about to start sharing with you the various elements we have. We playtested the pre-alpha game last night in John's War room over pizza, and Rick is busy putting the finishing touches to the turn sequence from that session so that we can share it with you. We'll also open up a section in the development forums for you to discuss and feedback.

Custom Army update - there have been a number of questions on how these work, what are the choices etc so we're busy putting together a more detailed description so that you have a clearer picture of what figure options you will have, customisations, weapons and so on

WarDrones - We're going to open up a section in the development forums for you to start discussing these beauties. They will play a big part in our universe so lets get into them

Weekend Service - we've been working round the clock over the last 4 weeks as we prepared for launch and then launched our Kickstarter, all of which has been hugely exciting for us so we haven't even noticed really, but our families have and are starting to miss us a little. So over the weekend we'll still be sending out updates and answering direct questions through KS messages, but you probably wont see us as much on the forums or comments sections. Hope that's ok, it's a marathon this one, no good sprinting the whole race - normal service will be resumed first thing on Monday morning.

Singularity Feeder Special - don't forget if you want a singularity feeder special, we're opening up 100 more of this tier at 5pm (UK time) today!

**Duncan_Idaho**

Well, some prefer pre-cooked stuff, other like to cook with those that have proven time an again that they can provide us with a delicious meal. To each its own.

**Pacific**

Catyrpelius wrote:
Pacific wrote:
BobtheInquisitor wrote:
How can you say it doesn't have an established fanbase when most of the excited posters are ...fans... of Priestley or White, and pledging based on their involvement. Are you telling me there would be anywhere near this level of interest in GoA if those names weren't attached?

I don't think anyone in their right mind would claim that! Of course lots of people may have blindly pledged because of the names involved, but I think ultimately a lot more will because GoA contains some bloody good ideas.

Once everyone who is willing to go all-in on a new Priestley concept have pledged, this project will stall unless they get their act together and deliver something concrete. A green. Alpha rules. A set list of factions, including background and several sketches each. Something.

This is starting to happen now, head over to the forums

What you see as bloody good ideas I see as a lack of content and direction.

I'm not going to back this project because they want my input to shape the game. Because truth be told they don't care what I have to add, they only want to know what I'm willing to buy. However if they show me something that I'm interested in, i.e. actual content, then I'd be willing to back this project.

So, putting forward a hypothetical situation here, I'm guessing you perhaps like the idea of a persistent, developing game universe? Me too, but sadly that's going to take some serious money to create, otherwise surely they would have brought it to the table ready to sell. As far as I see it, some big game-development brains have come up with some great ideas for a new system. They have a good idea about the games creation/game mechanics (Rick + the other guys), they have the sculptors and designers ready, and the ex-computer game guys ready to implement the real-time systems. Now, they need it to be financed, and the gaming community to help make those financial decisions on what to make - and that's where the KS comes in.

**BobbaFett**

Pacific wrote:
Sounds good Albino Squirrel! Actually most of the discussion going on on the forums right now is regarding the background for the various species, and especially about the PanHumans - I guess they are the concept that needs the most formation, so why not post your ideas over there if you haven't done so already?

I like this bit from the interview on BoLS

Is it an IGOUGO system along the lines of 40K?

Nope - the basic turn sequence is by alternating unit activation and individual units can be activated multiple times during a turn up to the total number of activations set for that turn - called the escalation level. As individual units take actions this can trigger reactions - such as a firefight or close quarter fighting - or opposing units can test to react with opportunity fire, return fire, and various moves including going to ground. Friendly units can also attempt supporting actions so that groups of units act together rather than in penny packets. So - no - it's certainly not an IGOUGO system - it's a fully integrated activation sequence that keeps the pace flowing and makes sure both sides are fully involved at all times.

Sounds rather like the system used for Starship troopers? Or perhaps close combat in FoW?

This sounds like the Order/ARO system from INFINITY.

**Duncan_Idaho**

More like the Reactive system From AT-43/Dust.

**niuserre**

Pacific wrote:
So, putting forward a hypothetical situation here, I'm guessing you perhaps like the idea of a persistent, developing game universe? Me too, but sadly that's going to take some serious money to create, otherwise surely they would have brought it to the table ready to sell. As far as I see it, some big game-development brains have come up with some great ideas for a new system. They have a good idea about the games creation/game mechanics (Rick + the other guys), they have the sculptors and designers ready, and the ex-computer game guys ready to implement the real-time systems. Now, they need it to be financed, and the gaming community to help make those financial decisions on what to make - and that's where the KS comes in.

I think there's more to it than money.

There's no point stumping up a load of cash through investment and remortgaging your house and the traditional stuff that people do to bootstrap if the whole thing hinges on an ongoing community supporting a living game.

To have a living system they need a really solid foundation for their community and the best way to get that is to create engagement. Not just 'I will sign up to that because the minis look good' but people who have involved themselves in the design process, who will be advocates, who will love it like they made it themselves...because they kinda did.

The bit that I think is hardest, beyond rules and greens: Fostering that collaboration and allowing it to have influence whilst also coming to an end result that is coherent, considered and, well, awesome. That needs a strong design lead, who they have in Rick. The bit that worries me is how they manage that community and they are making a start with their moderators, who could well be defining the culture for the fan community itself by the way they moderate. That's what I'll be watching most closely since I trust we'll see great starter rules, awesome art and sweet greens before the end of the KS anyway.

There's over a month left, surely you could wear your optimism hats for a little while longer ;-)

**judgedoug**

It's the reason the Dreadball Kickstarter was so great, because it instantly created a worldwide network of players, so that leagues were forming before the first box arrived (Especially since they releases the rules pdf to the backers for free before pledges shipped).

Same with this game. There will be a worldwide network of players who have been alpha/beta testing the game all year so when it launches, there's whole communities of gamers who already know the rules and will be participating immediately.

It's rather brilliant.

**BobtheInquisitor**

How long do you think Priestley, White, et al will pay attention to GoA before becoming bored and moving on to other projects?

**BobbaFett**

judgedoug wrote:
There will be a worldwide network of players who have been alpha/beta testing the game all year so when it launches, there's whole communities of gamers who already know the rules and will be participating immediately.

It's rather brilliant.

Yes, for sure. It is brilliant for a company that is releasing a product, yes it is.
And it is not just this game, many other games does the same thing, and videogame companies too.

They are so cool that they accept people to PAY for testing their unfinished products, for helping them and then release the final version.

Am I the only one who sees this kind of manouver a bit annoying. I mean... don't you think that we, geeks all over the world, are being completely used by companies in order to, not only playtest for free, some people are even paying for playtesting!!!

You know... that old fashioned system that was about releasing a product when it was already finished... was that so wrong? are we moving to this era of "you have the privilege to test my crude ideas" without any benefit? Is this becoming the standard system of releasing a game?

I can tolerate a few grey areas in a rules system, I can understand a new edition of a rulebook, I think that the feedback of gamers is crucial... but...
I have a few friends working as game-testers in the videogame industry and they are being fired, because we, geeks, are so slowed that are willing to do their job for free.... and some slowed geeks are even willing to pay for it.

Don't you think that a game should be heavily tested by the company that is releasing it?

**judgedoug**

BobtheInquisitor wrote:
How long do you think Priestley, White, et al will pay attention to GoA before becoming bored and moving on to other projects?

about 21 years judging by his creation and term of service working with 40k.

THOSE JERKS.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

BobbaFett wrote:
Don't you think that a game should be heavily tested by the company that is releasing it?

Absolutely! Maybe for a year, with a huge amount of playtesters finding and exploiting loopholes that can be fixed before final publication.

Either that, or they could do the phenomenally successful Games Workshop method, where Matt Wardor Robin Cruddace scribbles down some cool stats while sitting on the toilet and GW publishes it the following week, and then the gaming community playtests it after it's printed and published.

**BobtheInquisitor**

judgedoug wrote:
BobtheInquisitor wrote:
How long do you think Priestley, White, et al will pay attention to GoA before becoming bored and moving on to other projects?

about 21 years judging by his creation and term of service working with 40k.

THOSE JERKS.

He spent 21 years on Bolt Action and another 21 years on Hail Caesar and another on Black Powder??? He must be at death's door! No way he's got another 21 years left!

I guess he made it pretty clear he was committed to this project long-term when he showed up with a binder full of names and a briefcase full of napkin sketches and unrelated minis.

Really, I want him to succeed, too, but it really just embarrasses me when everyone acts like this is the thuper therial project Kickstarter and Priestey have waited their whole lives for. They just didn't bring their A-game and it shows. Doesn't mean they won't win, but it does mean you can't tell me they're better than Jordan.

**Duncan_Idaho**

On BP and HC he was asked to write the rules for others and according to my knowledge he still plays it and is involved in it so it might still take some tome befor he stops playing them. Also in a way he has been playing them way more years than most imagine. At least BP and HC are directly derived from Warmaster and that game has quite some years on its back.

The problem with many games out there today is: They are to the liking of the designer but that might not be the truth with many gamers. You can go either high risk and try this approach and might probably sink a lot of money in it that you never will recover or you directly ask the gamers in an intelligent way what it is they want.

The most important thing for a new game these days is a good set of rules. Dust Warefare would not have been that succesful if the rules were not avove average, though the minis are still above standard. Rick has quite some of the rules written, but there is a point in game design where they need to be tested. And believe me the best way to test it is to let as many people play the game as possible. A limited playtester group will only get you limited results.

Minitures in contrast are more expensive to produce, but they are an aditional layer and not the founding stone. Get the founding stone wrong and then try to replace it... that´s near impossible.

**overtyrant**

Really, I want him to succeed, too, but it really just embarrasses me when everyone acts like this is the thuper therial project Kickstarter and Priestey have waited their whole lives for. They just didn't bring their A-game and it shows. Doesn't mean they won't win, but it does mean you can't tell me they're better than Jordan.

And it embarrasses me that people cant have some faith and patience. Instead of nay saying all the time , wait and see what they release during the KS and if/when it fails then you can be like 'well they failed because....'.

**Grot 6**

Absolutly love the game, hate the funding.

My money should be good from the amazon account. there is no reason to give my credit card info to yet another dispersion company.

fix that and I'm in.

**Duncan_Idaho**

There´s nothing DSC can do about this. They would either need to open up an american daughter company or Amazaon would need to change its politics. Neither is going to happen soon.

**Charles Rampant**

Guys, we get that you are not interested in the kickstarter, but why do you feel the need to drag down the official thread with your own negative opinions stated repeatedly? If you don't like it, fine, but I don't understand why you want to start arguments with those who do. I don't have any interest in the Kingdom Death thing, but I don't go into the thread to complain about it.

**lord_blackfang**

overtyrant wrote:

And it embarrasses me that people cant have some faith and patience. Instead of nay saying all the time , wait and see what they release during the KS and if/when it fails then you can be like 'well they failed because....'.

Anyone can be a smartass after the fact. You know that investors will research the viability of a business before they put money in it, not after it has already crashed and burned, right?

There's plenty of clues written between the lines here to figure out how the project will look in the near future. For example, every faction having access to Wardrones for the simple reason that DSC doesn't expect to have the resources to produce more than 1 plastic kit in the foreseeable future. Which is a freakin' travesty given the many all-plastic kickstarters in the past few months.

**Baragash**

Charles Rampant wrote:
Guys, we get that you are not interested in the kickstarter, but why do you feel the need to drag down the official thread with your own negative opinions stated repeatedly? If you don't like it, fine, but I don't understand why you want to start arguments with those who do. I don't have any interest in the Kingdom Death thing, but I don't go into the thread to complain about it.

This is the 6th crowd-funding I've backed, the other 5 were no different, so unfortunately you just have to grit your teeth, shake your head and wade through it.

**Melcavuk**

There is nothing inherently bad with negative opinions, that said repeating them isnt exactly going to help. At this stage DSC are being amazingly receptive to feedback so posts of "I dont like it because..." are an opportunity for them to engage and effect a change if possible. Aslong as people are polite and give feedback (good or bad) in a concise way then it only goes to further the project and help it reach its goal.

I am psyched about this project and would hate for it to be brought down by people repeatedly expressing negative opinions, debate is fine.

**Duncan_Idaho**

There's plenty of clues written between the lines here to figure out how the project will look in the near future. For example, every faction having access to Wardrones for the simple reason that DSC doesn't expect to have the resources to produce more than 1 plastic kit in the foreseeable future. Which is a freakin' travesty given the many all-plastic kickstarters in the past few months.

Ahem, many of them are resin and not plastic, which is cheaper to work with.

Every faction using drones is mainly because most races have a common technological ground, not mainly because they do only one kit. And they never mentioned that they won´t do another plastic kit in the foreseeable future.

It is one thing to check whether a project is viable. But some folks complaining here seem more to be complainin because their now-favored system gets some competition. The first is applaudable, the second to be ridiculed.

Interestingly I do not find many complainin here on the DSC-forum stating their fears. That leaves the question: Why if they are so interested in the game as they claim to be, are they not using the means available to them to make sure it turns mor in the direction they want it to be taken?

**lord_blackfang**

At this point there's really no point in sharing my opinion besides making myself feel better. Complaining on their forum won't magically give them the ability to mass produce plastic.

I honestly wish them all the best, it would be really nice to have a viable alternative to 40k in the same engagement size (which seems to be what they're aiming for) but it looks like this particular project is currently a few years away from being worth looking at.

**Pacific**

lord_blackfang wrote:At this point there's really no point in sharing my opinion besides making myself feel better. Complaining on their forum won't magically give them the ability to mass produce plastic.

Regarding the material being used, here was a post from Rick on the main forum:

We're currently aiming to use a mix of plastic, metal and resin - because that's what we do at Warlord and we're used to the versitility. We are planning on making the WarDrones in plastic to start with - and most of the other figure in metal - and then the funding level will pretty much determine whether we do extra models in plastic from the start or resin or metal. For example, we have ideas for different kinds of vehicles which we'd like to make in plastic - but we'd need to hit some of our proposed stretch goals before we can afford that. But we could also make the same vehicles in resin initially - as we have with the Warlord range for example.

My preference would be for metal over resin for individual figures - but that's just me I guess!

So by the sounds of things as much as possible in plastic for the unit types, but the exact amount will depend on the funding level this KS receives.

BobtheInquisitor wrote:How long do you think Priestley, White, et al will pay attention to GoA before becoming bored and moving on to other projects?

In the back of my mind I have the feeling this is what Rick might have wanted 40k to be, and perhaps would have done had today's communications technology existed in the 80's. He had been doing historical projects for years (and in fact got them off the ground for GW), so you could say that Black Powder et al are just extensions of that really. Also, by their very nature historical projects will simply not be anything like as involving in this - having to create a game universe, the concepts within it, design the mechanics for that, and then to link it into the realtime development of that universe. Contrast that with producing a historical ruleset - absolutely loads of those are released constantly, put onto the market and then exist there for fans of historical wargaming to pick up at leisure.

From the comments on their forums, KS releases etc. it sounds like the whole bunch of developers are working pretty hard with this - I certainly don't think it's some kind of half-arsed diversion to give them something to do while crappy Xmas TV is on, only to be thrown to one side when they get bored as you seem to be implying.

**agustin**

Discussion threads about a Kickstarter should be open to the whole range of opinions on the project. It's not off topic to express an opinion that's not positive. And the posts of the last page or so have actually been fresh and new.

Like pointing out the one plastic kit they've said will be included is universal to all factions. Or pointing out that Rick Priestly recently has a track record of producing a set of rules and then going on to the next project. And really, how much post-publication support do you really expect? Will this whole "living world"/online support thing really require his full time attention? It'll probably be very little work compared to actually writing the core rules.

**niuserre**

agustin wrote:
Or pointing out that Rick Priestly recently has a track record of producing a set of rules and then going on to the next project. And really, how much post-publication support do you really expect? Will this whole "living world"/online support thing really require his full time attention? It'll probably be very little work compared to actually writing the core rules.

Unless he lives on air I imagine income would determine that. If it succeeds and has the player base it needs to sustain the business. There's all the ongoing episode stuff not to mention further product development. I wonder how Dust or Infinity occupy themselves with so 'little work'? And I'm sure all GW and PPs employees are bored out of their minds.

**judgedoug**

BobtheInquisitor wrote:
judgedoug wrote:
BobtheInquisitor wrote:
How long do you think Priestley, White, et al will pay attention to GoA before becoming bored and moving on to other projects?

about 21 years judging by his creation and term of service working with 40k.

THOSE JERKS.

He spent 21 years on Bolt Action and another 21 years on Hail Caesar and another on Black Powder??? He must be at death's door! No way he's got another 21 years left!

I guess he made it pretty clear he was committed to this project long-term when he showed up with a binder full of names and a briefcase full of napkin sketches and unrelated minis.

Technically, 21 years for 40k, 2 years of development for Bolt Action, at least 13 years on Warmaster/Black Powder/Hail Caesar.

Thankfully the binder full of names was also a binder full of rules (which they are currently testing). I think that briefcase is full of the knowledge of what works and what doesn't work (did I mention 21 years of 40k!)

If there's any man in this industry who has delivered time and again, that's Rick Priestly. Having faith in someone who is constantly a success and has developed many people's favorite games is all that many people ned to click that 'back this project' button.

And you're right, how dare a Kickstarter that has miniatures show it's backers related works. They should just have a picture of a series of question marks and a note saying "we don't know what these sculptors can do at all!"

Really, I want him to succeed, too, but it really just embarrasses me

You do? Doesn't sound like it. And how are you possibly embarassed that OTHER people are supporting something that you don't care about?

Automatically Appended Next Post:

niuserre wrote:
agustin wrote:
Or pointing out that Rick Priestly recently has a track record of producing a set of rules and then going on to the next project. And really, how much post-publication support do you really expect? Will this whole "living world"/online support thing really require his full time attention? It'll probably be very little work compared to actually writing the core rules.

Unless he lives on air I imagine income would determine that. If it succeeds and has the player base it needs to sustain the business. There's all the ongoing episode stuff not to mention further product development. I wonder how Dust or Infinity occupy themselves with so 'little work'? And I'm sure all GW and PPs employees are bored out of their minds.

It also sounds like some people don't understand what contract work is. Did Black Powder die the moment Rick Priestley sent the final copy to Warlord? Nope, their developers (specifically Peter Brown) then produced The Last Argument of Kings, the first supplement to Black Powder.

**agustin**

niuserre wrote:

Unless he lives on air I imagine income would determine that. If it succeeds and has the player base it needs to sustain the business. There's all the ongoing episode stuff not to mention further product development. I wonder how Dust or Infinity occupy themselves with so 'little work'? And I'm sure all GW and PPs employees are bored out of their minds.

You've inadvertently pointed out something interesting: Warlord is shifting business models with this project.

Their previous games have been a complete rulebook and then maybe an expansion. Bolt Action, in their partnership with Osprey has multiple expansions, none of which are written by the original authors of the game.

If the principal designers for this game are going to continue to be involved in a major way, it'll represent a shift in Warlord's approach.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Wanted to add:

If the Wardroids make good stand ins for Space Marines, they may be one of the smartest things to make as the first (and right now only) hard plastic kit that's part of this project.

Here's hoping their posability and appearance gives them a broad appeal.

.

**judgedoug**

agustin wrote:
You've inadvertently pointed out something interesting: Warlord is shifting business models with this project.

Their previous games have been a complete rulebook and then maybe an expansion. Bolt Action, in their partnership with Osprey has multiple expansions, none of which are written by the original authors of the game.

If the principal designers for this game are going to continue to be involved in a major way, it'll represent a shift in Warlord's approach.

Hasn't Rick written both expansions for Hail Caesar?

**agustin**

I thought he wrote one of the expansions, but not both. Could be wrong though as I don't have both of them.

It just seems like he's involved in a lot of projects. Perhaps this one will be him actually working on one on a dedicated basis?

**judgedoug**

agustin wrote:
I thought he wrote one of the expansions, but not both. Could be wrong though as I don't have both of them.

It just seems like he's involved in a lot of projects. Perhaps this one will be him actually working on one on a dedicated basis?

I know he wrote Biblical & Classical lists for Hail Caesar, but not sure of the Medieval supplement.

He's been working on the Warmaster system since 1999, from Warmaster through Warmaster Ancients, Black Powder and Hail Caesar. I don't think longevity is a problem as some are trying to make it out to be. Or any problem at all. Does Rick have a history of abandoning projects? He's exploded with creativity and activity as soon as he left GW. Probably had a lot of ideas he kept under wraps for fear of them being owned and summarily killed by GW (such as Warmaster 2.0). In the 2.x years since leaving GW he's had some contract work for Fanticide but has mainly kept stable with Warlord, who are all ex-GW employees anyway.

**Duncan_Idaho**

Actually after the first batch of boxes/codizes for 40K Rick wanted to go with 40K in a direction that is more similar to GoA but was not really allowed to. So you can say that this game has been on his radar for a very long time.

Actually quite some games out there are what happens when former GW designers are free to do what they want.

FoW was developed and even offered by former GW staff to GW but GW declined cause they thought it would not generate enough money.

Confrontation and AT-43 werde developed by former GW staff that were unhappy with the way GW handled WHFB and 40K

Starship Troopers even was originally ment to be the blueprint for 40k 3rd but was declined and Chambers than took it and refined it into SST. Some element of it can even be found in Dust Warfare.