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I think they have made a basic error by running the campaign during January and February.

It is the worst time of the year to sell most things, especially when no-one has a chance of seeing any return on their money for months.

War-drone's looking good so far.

Would like to see more anthro-cats (and no, I'm not a furry, but I don't think there's anything wrong with either furries or anthro-cats), and some female soldiers.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
I think they have made a basic error by running the campaign during January and February.

It is the worst time of the year to sell most things, especially when no-one has a chance of seeing any return on their money for months.

No.

Look at what this project did on the 7th of January alone (and it will not deliver until Christmas 2013 either): http://www.kicktraq.com/projects/poots/kingdom-death-monster/#chart-daily

Others, like Rivet Wars are pledging away nicely. There is no fault in the timing, and if, it's not a major hurdle.

I like the cats. So far, the war drones look fine. will follow with interest.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
I think they have made a basic error by running the campaign during January and February.

It is the worst time of the year to sell most things, especially when no-one has a chance of seeing any return on their money for months.

I think it's a ideal time for people who look as if they are doing this in addition to other paying work,

This time of year they probably get less commission work so can afford to dedicate more time and effort to GoA

(the timing hasn't had a bad effect of rivet wars, or kingdom death or even much smaller and potentially controversial efforts the Miece)

The wardrones looks like it's off to a good start, I wonder how many opitions the plastic kit will come with, also very curious to see how the whole "solid, but see-through" element comes through in the final sculpt, sounds like a difficult idea to get right.

 judgedoug wrote:

Spoiler:

I honestly don't care what races are in the game. It could be furries and cybersmurfs and CVzombies and s&m lollipop ladies for all I care. I want a good, generic, sci fi wargame. None exist right now that fills that void. The closest would be Stargrunt and Tomorrow's War, but these have their own share of problems (I do like a point system for pick up games, don't always have the time to create balanced scenarios). I am in this project because I trust Priestley's rules writing abilties, as I'm in love with the last half-dozen rulesets he's written. I already own large forces of Urban War Viridians, Pig Iron troopers, and Copplestone Assault Troopers, all with mixes of Antenociti's Workshop vehicles, etc.

I haven't seen anything where GoA requires you to use their miniatures when playing the game; what's to stop anyone from using pre-existing furry minis or greenstuffing tails onto the plastic wardrones?

That's a great idea! I honestly didn't think of it that way, even if the GoA sculpts/concepts are only half decent at the very least they could make good conversion fuel, alter what you don't like, bring in a few counts-as miniatures, maybe even create a bits pack to covert the wardrones (similar to all the space marine resin bits that are around) and BAM you have the army of monsters/aliens/furries/space zombies/space cats you want. As long as the rules are good and the conversions fit the general look of the universe it should be very possible to do and quite fun. Awesome I'll make sure I get a pledge in for the rulebooks (and maybe a few miniatures) at the very least.

But fluffy tails on wardrones?...... now that's just silly.

-----Edit-----
Ugh... just re-read the post I made last night, wow I really was in a bad mood, I wrote a whole load of unfounded and frankly unnecessary BS. Sorry guys, honestly really sorry, just edited it.
-----Edit-----

So, is the Wardrone sculpt based on a particulat concept that has been tossed around on the development boards? Last I saw were some concepts that had some decent ideas, but mostly looked like Go-Bots stole some weapons from the masters of the universe.

I'm getting more of a reimagined battlestar cylon centurion from the green so far.

Due to public demand the team have opened up a poll on the inclusion of female models in the kickstarters rewards, there has been a significant number of people expressing interest in the option of the team reconsidering so the poll with gauge if there is a true demand:

Rick's stated goal is for the women in this game to be as equally integrated into the background as the men, and for their proportions to be anatomically realistic as opposed to the approach some other companies have taken. He commented on how the production of female miniatures would not be as much of a launch priority due to female miniatures historically having proven to be less desirable purchases. There has been some posting in various locations that there may be a higher level of interest in female figures than they are aware of, however, and DSC has said they are willing to reevaluate their position and produce female miniatures faster if there is sufficient interest. Keep in mind, this is to help steer production plans, NOT a contract graven in stone. Here's a link to the poll and discussion on the inclusion of female miniatures: http://www.darkspacecorp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=1055

Thanks for the heads up Melcavuk, just put a vote in "for up to 50%", it would be a shame not to see a decent female presence in this universe, who knows if we really push our luck we could get a female leader.

 Zweischneid wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
Lets be honest, while there are some legitimate concerns one may have with this kickstarter, a lot of the criticism, especially in the last few pages, has been bordering on the ridiculous, and coupled with repeated chants of imminent doom about the project, really make it appear that some, who likely never would have invested in it anyway, are in many ways rooting for it to fail.

Really?

You have an example for someone rooting for it to fail from those "last few pages"?

Here you go:

 chris_valera wrote:
I'm having fun over at the Gates of Antares official forums:
<SNIP>

I am going to laugh so hard when this thing fething fails.

"Here we are / We sail on a ship made of dreams / Going fething nowhere..."

--Chris
www.chrisvalera.com

Oh big deal, one guy outright says he wants it to fail, hardly means the entire forum is wishing doom on this thing.

 Sidstyler wrote:
Oh big deal, one guy outright says he wants it to fail, hardly means the entire forum is wishing doom on this thing.

Is that what Vaktathi said?

I find it hilarious how this thread is being held up as an example of "Dakka is being really mean and nasty to a KS".

You guys have never spent 5 minutes in a Mantic KS thread, have you?

Compared to those, this thread is really tame and highly positive/ supportive of the project.

 scarletsquig wrote:
I find it hilarious how this thread is being held up as an example of "Dakka is being really mean and nasty to a KS".

You guys have never spent 5 minutes in a Mantic KS thread, have you?

Compared to those, this thread is really tame and highly positive/ supportive of the project.

Or really, a Mantic thread in general...

 scarletsquig wrote:
I find it hilarious how this thread is being held up as an example of "Dakka is being really mean and nasty to a KS".

You guys have never spent 5 minutes in a Mantic KS thread, have you?

Compared to those, this thread is really tame and highly positive/ supportive of the project.

I was thinking the same thing.

I've pledged at the rulebook level, I'm waiting to see the more substantial updates before I go in for any minis.

angryboy2k wrote:

 Sidstyler wrote:
Oh big deal, one guy outright says he wants it to fail, hardly means the entire forum is wishing doom on this thing.

Is that what Vaktathi said?

Not to be pedantic, but what Chris said isn't that he wanted it to fail, but rather that it was stupendously likely to fail and it would be funny ("I am going to laugh so hard when this thing fething fails"). there is no accounting for humor, but his assessment is difficult to dispute.



Not to say it deserves to fail, but surely it's now reached the point of being objectively true that this campaign has been badly managed.As an example, consider that poll posted above... posted by a random user here, posted by a random backer in the comments section of the campaign. Why? This is theoretically a huge deal, why isn't the poll in an update, which would direct the attention of the entire backer base to it, and would be readily available to be seen by non-backers. The managers didn't push it because... something.

It also reinforces the painfully raw impression that the managers don't know what they are doing. Rick mentions that there probably isn't enough commercial appeal for female models the way they want as part of the initial campaign. Okay, he's the professional, presumably that statement was based on something. But now, suddenly, public demand has caused them to reassess this? Where? In the Kickstarter forum on their own forums*? Why did Rick just rethink this? Was he just making it up earlier? Had a little snoot full and made something up? They do a 180 on a very expensive and difficult topic, because...?

Yeash.



*As an aside, perhaps one of the reasons this campaign is sputtering along is that it's intensely focused on the community aspect... but has one of the most poorly laid-out forums I've ever seen. Seriously, those are just terrible...

This campaign is really making me want to write up a Cat-Girls VS Scruffy Nerf Herders sci-fi ruleset.

To be frank, the purpose of Kickstarter is supposed to be to fund projects that don't have guaranteed commercial appeal.

Women soldier models are a good example.

Dang, say what you will about CMON's origins, they know how to run a kickstarter.

GoA definitely needed to have sculpts for everything ready to show.

Although I wonder if their difficulties also has something to do with the fact this GoA is actually more of a traditional wargame, with more set factions.

What I mean is, a lot of kickstarters out there that have done super well are for board game-like experiences, basically more of a boxed game. Then, each goal they have can just add on more stuff to the box, or for higher level pledges. Everyone gets the same extra things and can make use of them.

The Kingdom Death Monster KS is an example of this. It's definitely a minaitures game, but also very much a boxed board-game style game.

I wonder if there have been some really succcessful kickstarters for traditional faction based games.

 Vertrucio wrote:
.

I wonder if there have been some really succcessful kickstarters for traditional faction based games.

Like Relic Knights?

Relic knights is very close, but they're very skirmish oriented, no squads of infantry really.

 Vertrucio wrote:
Dang, say what you will about CMON's origins, they know how to run a kickstarter.

GoA definitely needed to have sculpts for everything ready to show.

Although I wonder if their difficulties also has something to do with the fact this GoA is actually more of a traditional wargame, with more set factions.

What I mean is, a lot of kickstarters out there that have done super well are for board game-like experiences, basically more of a boxed game. Then, each goal they have can just add on more stuff to the box, or for higher level pledges. Everyone gets the same extra things and can make use of them.

The Kingdom Death Monster KS is an example of this. It's definitely a minaitures game, but also very much a boxed board-game style game.

I wonder if there have been some really succcessful kickstarters for traditional faction based games.

The best example is probably Relic Knights, which is a complete relaunch of a mostly established gaming system, so there were loads of models and concept art to show off.

The reality of the situation is that, but for a single, stupendously foolish decision, this campaign would be an unqualified success: that decision was setting the funding level at 300k GBP. Based on little more then Priestly's name they raised 85k or so, which, let's put in perspective, would already be pretty high for a niche release. But they didn't want a niche release: they have basically committed to not just doing everything that something like Dreamforge did, they want to do that times 3 (or however many factions they have).

Seriously, Dreamforge took $200k (about, 130k GBP?) to basically release a single faction of the Iron Core universe in total in plastic. But the second faction and the game are parceled out to upcoming campaigns. Beyond, in contrast, is doing the entire thing all at once.

Edit: Dang, got ninja'd hard on the Relic Knights reference. But if you want a pure table top non-skirmish game, Iron Core may be the closest you'll find, and even that was basically just the Eisenkern faction (a single, LE model for the second faction).

;-). Relic knights is a bit different like you mentioned due to the already robust catalog of minis they had.

I am the only one who gets more interested in this as time goes on?

The concept art is coming together and the new Wardrone sculpt is starting the look very nice already (reminds me of the good Tau stuff from FW).

Furries or not there look to be enough factions to keep me interested and this game could be the one that finally cures my 40k addiction (surely worth a few hundred quid on its own?).

They actually appear to be listening to requests for more concept art, greens etc (my only hope is that this gets the project moving).

The only potentially terminal failure is a £300K startpoint with no growth - an extra mini or two to sweeten the deal might be needed at this stage.

I'm in and hope this gets moving!

Laney

 02Laney wrote:
I am the only one who gets more interested in this as time goes on?

My interest hasn't waned at all since I pledged to this Kickstarter. I'm not commenting because I don't have much to say that would actually contribute to the conversation, and I'm not all that anxious for zombies in the game, but I enjoy watching the project develop.

 Alpharius wrote:

 tvih wrote:

 Buzzsaw wrote:
It's very interesting, this talk about how there isn't demand for female miniatures.

The funniest thing about that? "You can't get enough female miniatures in our opinion." And where's that from?
Dun dun dun......
From the BTGOA kickstarter page!

Not that I don't believe you, but where?
Can you quote it for us?
Ouch!

Stage 4 of the miniature development process.

Buzzsaw wrote: Not to say it deserves to fail, but surely it's now reached the point of being objectively true that this campaign has been badly managed.As an example, consider that poll posted above... posted by a random user here, posted by a random backer in the comments section of the campaign. Why? This is theoretically a huge deal, why isn't the poll in an update, which would direct the attention of the entire backer base to it, and would be readily available to be seen by non-backers. The managers didn't push it because... something.

It also reinforces the painfully raw impression that the managers don't know what they are doing. Rick mentions that there probably isn't enough commercial appeal for female models the way they want as part of the initial campaign. Okay, he's the professional, presumably that statement was based on something. But now, suddenly, public demand has caused them to reassess this? Where? In the Kickstarter forum on their own forums*? Why did Rick just rethink this? Was he just making it up earlier? Had a little snoot full and made something up? They do a 180 on a very expensive and difficult topic, because...?

Yeash.

Hey sorry, The Poll was posted up by a forum mod on the Dark Space Forums because it was decided that gauging community interest after a few people both here and there stated that there was a real demand for female miniatures. I then cross posted it both on Dakka and Kickstarters, whilst I am a moderator over on Dark Space forums I a just a random backer both here and Dakka. In short yes whilst it appears the transfer of the polls and the spread of information was random it was undertaken by members of the forum team over there to here.

02Laney wrote:I am the only one who gets more interested in this as time goes on?

The concept art is coming together and the new Wardrone sculpt is starting the look very nice already (reminds me of the good Tau stuff from FW).

Furries or not there look to be enough factions to keep me interested and this game could be the one that finally cures my 40k addiction (surely worth a few hundred quid on its own?).

They actually appear to be listening to requests for more concept art, greens etc (my only hope is that this gets the project moving).

The only potentially terminal failure is a £300K startpoint with no growth - an extra mini or two to sweeten the deal might be needed at this stage.

I'm in and hope this gets moving!

Laney

You arent the only one, there are alot of people very happy with the updates that are coming out, and yet more hoping that the finished wardrones are enough to make them pledge. It may seem like alot of negative comments but those are the ones that spark alot of debate. In short, I think the number of people who want to see the project fail are in the minority, there are however alot who would like to see some things done differently (forum organisation, more greens etc).

To all the guys freaking about this only being a 1/3rd of the way there, isn't this how, well, all kickstarters work?

I remember people predicting doom and gloom for the Dreamforge one because a month out it was real low, and in the last week or so it shot up like crazy.

A lot of people wait until "the last minute" to pledge, or pledge a very low amount and then add to it once they're sure what they want. It wouldn't surprise me in the least to see the kickstarter pledges ramp up as the release date gets closer.

As for the game itself, what's going to make or break it for me is the models. Other guys at my store are showing interest in it (including some VERY die hard 40k players) so a good miniature line is what will sell me on it. The heavy reliance on drones worries me, as I'd like to use 100% human forces if possible. Maybe they'll have a rebel/wastelander/pirate faction that can't afford drones though. That would probably be the push I need to go in.

Could care less about the furry "issue". I hate eldar but I never whine about that. Some people like them, and it doesn't hurt anything by them being in. If you end up facing one, you get to crush them on the battlefield, so its a win win. Don't see why everyone has their panties in a knot over it. Live and let Live.

 scarletsquig wrote:
I find it hilarious how this thread is being held up as an example of "Dakka is being really mean and nasty to a KS".

You guys have never spent 5 minutes in a Mantic KS thread, have you?

Compared to those, this thread is really tame and highly positive/ supportive of the project.

True.

Or, probably more appropriately, Blue Table Painting. It's the only Kickstarter I remember where people (not only Dakka, but including Dakka) actively worked to bring it down. Or, as it were, rooting for it to fail.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
To all the guys freaking about this only being a 1/3rd of the way there, isn't this how, well, all kickstarters work?

I remember people predicting doom and gloom for the Dreamforge one because a month out it was real low, and in the last week or so it shot up like crazy.

Perhaps.

But DreamForge didn't just "shoot up like crazy" without doing anything. The published 2 to 3 digital render updates a day. They actively included stuff people were asking for. They walked the extra mile (or 10, or 100), and were rewarded with success.

Can GoA do a comeback? Sure. But these don't just "happen" (and not all succeed, see ShadowSea).

But like other comeback Kickstarters, they need to change the way they do things to make that comeback. And for that, above all, it would be worthwhile looking at other successful Kickstarters. Which they continuously refuse to do.

They tried to re-invent how these things work. Kudos to them for having the balls to do it differently. But it is clear that it isn't working, nor is there enough time to experiment with yet another "new way of doing things". To copycat the framework provided by others is their best bet now (And isn't that the best thing about Kickstarter? It offers a comparably easy to understand rote-template for raising start-up cash for your game!). Entrepreneurs 10 years ago would've sold their grandmother for such a near-fool-proof raise-money-by-numbers approach).